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Tomenable
23-09-18, 03:58
Józef Zdzisław Czen-De-Fu (陳德福; Chén Défú):

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdzis%C5%82aw_J%C3%B3zef_Czendefu

"Born in 1892 in Dalian, Northern China, Józef Czen-De-Fu fought in 1919 in the uprising which liberated Greater Poland from German rule, even though he was still a Chinese citizen at that time. Now, Mr Czen-De-Fu is the manager of a carpentry shop in Barcin. He considers himself Polish, has patriotic views and does not want to return to his first homeland. As he says, nothing links him to China (he left it 30 years ago), and everything to Poland":

http://szewex.pl/my/chinczyk.jpg

http://pokazywarka.pl/czendefu/

"Czendefu Zdzisław Józef, Chinese-Polish. He was born in China on 15 May 1892. At the age of 7 he lost his parents. During the Russian-Japanese War of 1904-1905 he was taken care of by a Captain of the Russian Army, an ethnic Pole Kazimierz Skorotkiewicz. Skorotkiewicz fought in the defence of Port Arthur, serving in the 9th East Siberian Rifle Regiment. During the battle he was wounded. In the end the Russian Fortress surrendered and Captain Skorotkiewicz went to Japanese captivity as one of 4658 ethnically Polish POWs. Over 72,000 POWs who defended the Russian fortress were located in 29 POW camps scattered over Japan. The largest camp was Hamadera. Conditions were good. Skorotkiewicz made use of his rights and sent his orderly, Czen-De-Fu, to his sister living in Warsaw - Ms Dąbrowska. Later Czen-De-Fu moved to Prussian Provinz Posen and lived in Pleszew, Gniezno, and - finally - in Barcin. In Barcin he worked at Chojnacki's carpentry shop. He was active in a Sokół unit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sok%C3%B3%C5%82), fought in World War I, in Greater Poland Uprising of 1918-1919, and in the Polish-Soviet War. He converted to Catholicism and he became a True Pole."

http://www.wtg-gniazdo.org/wiki.php?page=Rocznik_2014

http://pokazywarka.pl/czendefu/#zdjecie15348653

http://pokazywarka.pl/czendefu/#zdjecie15348720

Maciamo
23-09-18, 08:56
If he is Chinese, why would he be ethnically Polish? Changing nationality does not change one's ethnicity (i.e. ancestry).

Joey37
23-09-18, 14:58
No, he's not ethnically Polish. Culturally Polish. I have a Polish last name, from my father's stepfather, but autosomally I am 87.5% Northwest European (English, Irish, German, Dutch), 11.5% Southern European (Sicilian), and 0.5% Native American. The closest thing to Polish I have is my y-chromosome, from a German-assimilated Polabian Slav.

Tomenable
23-09-18, 15:13
If he is Chinese, why would he be ethnically Polish? Changing nationality does not change one's ethnicity (i.e. ancestry).

Is ethnicity defined exclusively by ancestry, though?

I have seen cultural and linguistic definitions as well. Although even these definitions usually require that a person is born into a given ethnicity and grows up speaking the language as native. So for example a small child adopted by Polish parents could grow up to become ethnically Polish, but an adult immigrant could not.

On the other hand if ethnicity was exclusively about ancestry, then ethnic assimilation would not be possible (and clearly it is).

For example modern Egyptians are ethnically Arabs despite being mostly descended from local pre-Arab populations. The French are ethnically French (except for ethnic minorities in France) and Italians are ethnically Italian even though you will find people with vastly different ancestries among them.

I think there are several things to distinguish:

- ethnic identity (subjective perception of one's ethnicity)
- ethnicity (as classified by an ethnographer or anthropologist)
- national identity (with which nation someone identifies)

As for nationality, some people think it is a synonym of national identity (a subjective feeling of belongingness), others that it is a synonym of citizenship (which is a completely different thing than national identity). As for genetic ancestry, it is not always the same as genealogical ancestry on paper, due to several factors.

Race is always defined by ancestry though, although it can be about subjective perceptions of ancestry.

Tomenable
23-09-18, 15:31
Is a German with a Nordic skull shape, blonde hair and blue eyes ethnically the same as a German with an Alpinid skull shape, brown hair and brown eyes? Of course it is possible that their admixture proportions are actually very similar despite their physical differences.

On the other hand, two people that look the same and identify as being of the same ethnic group can get different DNA ancestry results if they are from regions with different population histories. I have read about cases of identical looking doppelgangers doing DNA tests and they got different results if they were from geographically different areas, even if just from the opposite ends of the same country.

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As for this Chinese guy - he married a Polish woman. They never had children, but if they had some, they would be 50% Polish, grandchildren 75%, and so on. Eventually they would just be absorbed into the Polish society with little traces of East Asian DNA.

firetown
23-09-18, 15:36
We all have genetic pre-dispositions. But we also can make choices. I am 1/8th Polish. But I have always felt very close to the Polish community. And Jewish community. Being part Celtic on my German side doesn't ring as much of a bell if you will. So if he is inspired by the Polish resistance reminding him of something he suffered under, so be it.

firetown
23-09-18, 15:48
This picture will forever stay in the back of my mind.
10421
We seem to forget too easily about the brave women and men from Poland who have stood up to the Nazi occupation and gave their lives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes_against_the_Polish_nation
How can someone not be inspired by them?

Maciamo
23-09-18, 18:15
Is ethnicity defined exclusively by ancestry, though?

I have seen cultural and linguistic definitions as well. Although even these definitions usually require that a person is born into a given ethnicity and grows up speaking the language as native. So for example a small child adopted by Polish parents could grow up to become ethnically Polish, but an adult immigrant could not.

On the other hand if ethnicity was exclusively about ancestry, then ethnic assimilation would not be possible (and clearly it is).

For example modern Egyptians are ethnically Arabs despite being mostly descended from local pre-Arab populations. The French are ethnically French (except for ethnic minorities in France) and Italians are ethnically Italian even though you will find people with vastly different ancestries among them.

I think there are several things to distinguish:

- ethnic identity (subjective perception of one's ethnicity)
- ethnicity (as classified by an ethnographer or anthropologist)
- national identity (with which nation someone identifies)

As for nationality, some people think it is a synonym of national identity (a subjective feeling of belongingness), others that it is a synonym of citizenship (which is a completely different thing than national identity). As for genetic ancestry, it is not always the same as genealogical ancestry on paper, due to several factors.

Race is always defined by ancestry though, although it can be about subjective perceptions of ancestry.

I think you confuse ethnicity with citizenship or nationality. Ethnicity is related only to ancestry (and perhaps also to the cultural and linguistic background that comes with it), but not to one's national identity. There is no such thing as a Canadian or US ethnicity - only nationality or citizenship.

Race and ethnicity are similar terms, but race is broader (Caucasian, Mongoloid, Dravidian, Papuan, etc.), while ethnicity are divisions within racial groups.