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Angela
05-12-18, 13:47
It's from remains on Ibiza, mostly mtdna, and only one genome, low coverage, which may be Punic not Phoenician, and it's by Pierre Zalloua, so...color me a bit skeptical

See:
Pierre Zalloua et al

"Ancient DNA of Phoenician remains indicates discontinuity in the settlement history of Ibiza"
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y

"Ibiza was permanently settled around the 7th century BCE by founders arriving from west Phoenicia. The founding population grew significantly and reached its height during the 4th century BCE. We obtained nine complete mitochondrial genomes from skeletal remains from two Punic necropoli in Ibiza and a Bronze Age site from Formentara. We also obtained low coverage (0.47X average depth) of the genome of one individual, directly dated to 361–178 cal BCE, from the Cas Molí site on Ibiza. We analysed and compared ancient DNA results with 18 new mitochondrial genomes from modern Ibizans to determine the ancestry of the founders of Ibiza. The mitochondrial results indicate a predominantly recent European maternal ancestry for the current Ibizan population while the whole genome data suggest a significant Eastern Mediterranean component. Our mitochondrial results suggest a genetic discontinuity between the early Phoenician settlers and the island’s modern inhabitants. Our data, while limited, suggest that the Eastern or North African influence in the Punic population of Ibiza was primarily male dominated."

Gabriele Pashaj
05-12-18, 14:25
Thank you Angela!


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Gabriele Pashaj
05-12-18, 14:27
So the main mtdna of these remnants is H1... interesting ..


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Angela
05-12-18, 14:45
Some tidbits:

"Limited evidence favours some level of continuity of prehistoric settlement in Ibiza from the end of Bronze Age until the arrival of Phoenicians in the 7th century BCE4 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR4). These Bronze Age settlements however, had relatively small populations compared to the larger Balearic Islands5 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR5),6 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR6),7 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR7). "

"The small founding population arrived from west Phoenicia, most probably Gadir, during the 7th century BCE, and they are identified by their funerary rituals, that primarily involved cremation. The second phase occurred between the 5th and 4th centuries BCE and is indicated by a significant and rapid expansion in population size, reaching nearly 4,000 inhabitants. This growth may have been driven by a population flow from Carthage and other Punic settlements in the Mediterranean and coincides with a period of prosperity and major development of the island. The third and last phase of this early settlement period was between the 3rd and 2ndcenturies during which Ibiza witnessed a period of economic decline and the return of cremation funerary rituals. After the 2nd Punic War, Ibiza started a long process of integration in the Roman Empire, which culminated in 74 AD, when it became a Latin Municipium12 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR12). The Roman impact on the local inhabitants of Ibiza appears to have been minimal as is indicated by limited evidence of influence in the archaeological record. The Ibizan population remained somewhat isolated while under Roman political influence until the Islamic conquest of the island by Arabs and Berbers around 902 CE and they remained under Muslim rule for 333 years. Beginning around 1229 CE the Balearic Islands, including Ibiza in 1235, were impacted by immigrants from Catalonia, in mainland Spain, and the population of Ibiza slowly grew in number, but relative isolation of the autochthonous population continued and is still maintained today4 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR4),13 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR13)."

Table 1 has the mtdna. The good news is that they're mitogenomes. The bad news is that most of the samples available for comparison aren't.
See: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y/tables/1

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y/tables/1


The one whole genome which could be analyzed, "plotted within the Levantine cluster, outside of the modern Iberians (Supplemental Fig. 4b (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#MOESM2)). When considering more fine-grained analysis including only the Levantine and Iberian modern data with MS10614, the Ibizan positioned between the Iberian and Levantine samples, with more affinity to the Levantine populations (Fig. 6a (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#Fig6)). We conducted a further test, adding North African populations 4848 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#ref-CR48) to the analyses (Fig. 6b (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35667-y#Fig6)) and see that MS10614 is situated more closely to the Levantine and Iberian samples and not the North Africans."

So far so good.

https://i.imgur.com/KnKOiVb.png

I'm not quite sure what's up with the above. The Iberia Mesolithic is odd, isn't it? Also, where did the green in modern Lebanese come from? That's why in their analysis this "Phoenician" from Ibiza, who is probably mixed, looks modern Lebanese to them, but doesn't look very Lebanon Bronze Age to me.

Until we have an Iron Age Lebanon sample this is going to remain up in the air.

Lenab
05-12-18, 15:41
So the main mtdna of these remnants is H1... interesting ..


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That's in Iberian populations

Lenab
05-12-18, 15:44
i am surprised by this never heard of analysis on this but rather testing all religious sects in Lebanon to see whoever has Phoenician dna, which to me makes no sense anyway since having a connection to the Near East doesn't necessarily mean it's Phoenician but it doesn't mean it's not it either, it's just simply speculation.

Also, this type admixture was apparently only seen in 30 percent of the population of Lebanon I doubt it would make the majority at all.

brick
05-12-18, 15:54
These mtDNAs look like Iberian Neolithic mtDNAs.

Are those really early Phoenician settlers or instead the island’s ancient inhabitants?

bicicleur
05-12-18, 16:08
Our data, while limited, suggest that the Eastern or North African influence in the Punic population of Ibiza was primarily male dominated."

I guess that was typical for bronze age expansions.
I'm surprised about 7th cent BC Phoenicians.
Most of them were not traders, but farmers then. They were fugitives for the expanding Neo-Assyrian Empire.
You'd expect complete families to settle.
But maybe Formentera was not fertile, not a place for farmers to settle?

Lenab
05-12-18, 16:40
These mtDNAs look like Iberian Neolithic mtDNAs.

Are those really early Phoenician settlers or instead the island’s ancient inhabitants?
It's a combination of both how could they know?

Angela
05-12-18, 21:36
People, they only have one Phoenician sample from which they could get autosomal dna, and it may be mixed. All the other ancient dna is mtDna and it's typically European Neolithic. So, it was a male mediated migration.



MS10612
H3 + 152
Puig des Molins, Ibiza
3rd - 2nd c BCE
100
40.6547
0.0008941
MH043581


MS10613
U4a
Puig des Molins, Ibiza
4th c BCE
99.2
5.61681
0.0171749
MH043578


MS10614
T2b
Ca’s Moli, Ibiza
361–178 cal BCE
100
139.573
0.0044663
MH043577


MS10616
H1 + 152
Puig des Molins, Ibiza
Early Roman
99.9
18.6375
0.0174345
MH043580


MS10617
U5b3
Puig des Molins, Ibiza
5th - 4th c BCE
99.9
12.0362
0.0109457
MH043579


MS10619
H1c
Puig des Molins, Ibiza
5th - 4th c BCE
100
17.4834
0.0106004
MH043582


MS10620
J1c3g
Puig des Molins, Ibiza
4th c BCE
96.3
3.87096
0.0539312
MH043584


MS10622
H3
Puig des Molins, Ibiza
4th c BCE
100
29.3584
0.0038769
MH043583


MS10589
K1a1b1
Ca na Costa, Formentera
900–750 BCE
90.62
3.552
0.1401751
MH043585






@Bicicleur,

It's always been my impression that the Phoenicians were primarily a trading, mercantile people who in most cases did not bring family groups to their emporia in the central and western Med. Do you have something I could read that proposes differently?

Angela
08-12-18, 21:21
Someone should inform some of the reading comprehension challenged people at anthrogenica that there is no or barely any trace of the Phoenicians in Ibiza. That's what happens, as I said in my latest comment on the bronze age thread, when you have a not very numerous male mediated migration erased by the more numerous locals, whether the locals were there before, during, and/or after the subject migration.

Some general information there about Phoenicians as well.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/37439-New-conference-on-Bronze-Age-mobility-in-Europe/page10?p=560750#post560750

Cato
08-12-18, 21:27
Balearic Islands were completely repopulated in the Middle Age after the reconquest by Catalans, Occitans and few Italians if i'm not wrong...

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Angela
08-12-18, 22:29
Balearic Islands were completely repopulated in the Middle Age after the reconquest by Catalans, Occitans and few Italians if i'm not wrong...

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Indeed. That's why they're always high on my list of matches.

They don't know much about history over there.

There are no lessons to be learned about penetration of Phoenician dna from Ibiza. Sardinia is another matter, but it seems as if it's pretty minor. We'll see about Sicily and Spain.