Cheddar Man, Mesolithic Britain, GEDmatch results

Tomenable

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Location
Poland
Ethnic group
Polish
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b-L617
mtDNA haplogroup
W6a
I have uploaded him to GEDmatch Genesis:

Cheddar Man England 7150 BC, GEDmatch Genesis kit number - NW6414429

Eurogenes K36:

137669 SNPs used in this evaluation

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 8.81 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 17.68 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 9.69 Pct
Fennoscandian 36.88 Pct

French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 7.78 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 19.15 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Similarity Map:

21TlwPH.png


Edit:

DNA Land Ancestry Report for Cheddar Man:

dqG1qND.png
 
Last edited:
Was Cheddar Man part of the Villabruna Cluster?
 
Fascinating. Some people rich in WHG like Basques and Sardinians do not look similar at all to Cheddar Man in the map. Does it suggest that "WHG" is maybe a generic cluster, and there was actually a lot of regional genetic structure? Or is it just because compared to Northern Europeans, who also have a lot more EHG, the sum of Mesolithic European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG+EHG) is lower in the other regions?
 
Fascinating. Some people rich in WHG like Basques and Sardinians do not look similar at all to Cheddar Man in the map. Does it suggest that "WHG" is maybe a generic cluster, and there was actually a lot of regional genetic structure? Or is it just because compared to Northern Europeans, who also have a lot more EHG, the sum of Mesolithic European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG+EHG) is lower in the other regions?
Actually it's strange that in the map, Sardinians score only one point higher than Cypriots (2 vs 1) when in reality they have much more WHG ancestry. It makes 0 sense for their WHG to be close to Cypriot levels
 
Fascinating. Some people rich in WHG like Basques and Sardinians do not look similar at all to Cheddar Man in the map. Does it suggest that "WHG" is maybe a generic cluster, and there was actually a lot of regional genetic structure? Or is it just because compared to Northern Europeans, who also have a lot more EHG, the sum of Mesolithic European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG+EHG) is lower in the other regions?

If Chad Rohlfsen (https://populationgenomics.blog) is right WHG might be a relatively complex admixture of Magdalenian on the one Hand and Anatolian + Gravettian + ANE + ENA on the other. This could explain the similarity to Finno-Ugrian groups who have additional Gravettian and ENA admixture from Siberia.

It would be interesting to investigate whether the HG admixture in Basques is more similar to Magdalenians.
 
Hmm, pigmentation. Maybe he was like an Arab, since the WHG were I haplogroup and Arabs are J, so they descend from the same ancestral stock on the male line. With his clustering with Northern Norway and Estonia, maybe we need to come up with a new group, Northern Hunter-Gatherers.
 
Hmm, pigmentation. Maybe he was like an Arab, since the WHG were I haplogroup and Arabs are J, so they descend from the same ancestral stock on the male line. With his clustering with Northern Norway and Estonia, maybe we need to come up with a new group, Northern Hunter-Gatherers.

AFAIK the scientists in question looked at more SNPs than just those in the Hirisplex system. Is there any good reason to doubt the skin color of the reconstruction?
 
Cheddar Man Genetic analysis showed that it was Y DNA I2a2b-S10750 Or I-L38*
Cheddar Man is a "partial" I-L38*, a line ancestral to all I-L38s today as follows:
Y11324/FGC29600+
Y11319/FGC29553+
S2524/SK1263/V2774+
S2519+
Y13463/FGC29582+
S2592+
S8646 (2/3 reads derived)
The other SNPs are ancestral
https://yfull.com/tree/I-L38/
 
AFAIK the scientists in question looked at more SNPs than just those in the Hirisplex system. Is there any good reason to doubt the skin color of the reconstruction?

I have seen several skin color reconstructions ranging from:

This: http://www.early-man.com/cheddar-man.html

... to this:

https://www.euronews.com/2018/02/07/cheddar-man-shows-white-skin-could-be-a-recent-phenomenon

_99925223_8f56221a-56fe-4f6a-bd46-27eddd3d1255.jpg


These are quite different, 2nd looks MENA, 1st looks Black.

=====

Here is a good article:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/06/the-genome-of-cheddar-man-is-about-to-be-published/
 
I have uploaded him to GEDmatch Genesis:

Cheddar Man England 7150 BC, GEDmatch Genesis kit number - NW6414429

Eurogenes K36:

137669 SNPs used in this evaluation

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 8.81 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 17.68 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 9.69 Pct
Fennoscandian 36.88 Pct

French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 7.78 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 19.15 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Similarity Map:

21TlwPH.png


From a K36 Oracle

CA6qnTW.jpg


aYc3Die.jpg
 
Actually it's strange that in the map, Sardinians score only one point higher than Cypriots (2 vs 1) when in reality they have much more WHG ancestry. It makes 0 sense for their WHG to be close to Cypriot levels

Cheddy:
Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer Admixture Proportions

Population

Anatolian Farmer -
Baltic Hunter Gatherer 94.00 Pct
Middle Eastern Herder -
East Asian Farmer 0.09
Pct South American Hunter Gatherer -
South Asian Hunter Gatherer -
North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer -
East African Pastoralist -
Oceanian Hunter Gatherer 0.35 Pct
Mediterranean Farmer 5.56 Pct
Pygmy Hunter Gatherer -
Bantu Farmer -
 
I have seen several skin color reconstructions ranging from:

This: http://www.early-man.com/cheddar-man.html

... to this:

https://www.euronews.com/2018/02/07/cheddar-man-shows-white-skin-could-be-a-recent-phenomenon

_99925223_8f56221a-56fe-4f6a-bd46-27eddd3d1255.jpg


These are quite different, 2nd looks MENA, 1st looks Black.

=====

Here is a good article:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/06/the-genome-of-cheddar-man-is-about-to-be-published/

I 'll came back later but I just say here the discrepencies between the two reconstructions show us how unreliable these things can be; the first one seems to me the less reliable, not specially about skin colour but about features: nose flesh, lips... a provocative one for sure...
I think the 'cromalike' heritage was for thin lips, the 'br?nlike' one was for thicker lips, so some choice in Mesolithic, but even like that, these curious lips???
 
I have seen several skin color reconstructions ranging from:

This: http://www.early-man.com/cheddar-man.html

... to this:

https://www.euronews.com/2018/02/07/cheddar-man-shows-white-skin-could-be-a-recent-phenomenon

_99925223_8f56221a-56fe-4f6a-bd46-27eddd3d1255.jpg


These are quite different, 2nd looks MENA, 1st looks Black.

=====

Here is a good article:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/06/the-genome-of-cheddar-man-is-about-to-be-published/

Not a good article IMHO. Same old "I feel he should be lighter".
 
Not a good article IMHO. Same old "I feel he should be lighter".

It would be surprising though if people like him contribute a significant amount of N Euro ancestry (and N Euros are light skinned). They also chose the darkest possible estimate from a range of possible pigmentations, which says it all really

Something like Yemenis is a pigmentation I could “accept” as plausible
 
Iain Mathieson said a few days ago on Twitter:

I would say that basically it is impossible to predict skin pigmentation of these populations [SHG and WHG] with any degree of confidence, partly because they likely had variants that are not common today, and partly because there is too much epistasis.... I mean if you had some of the light pigmentation alleles you would probably guess lighter than if not, but I would still be extremely skeptical of any kind of quantitative prediction. There are hundreds of GW-significant pigmentation variants in UK Biobank alone, and these sort of predictions involve a small fraction of those

It seems we have underestimated the complexity of pigmentation genetics until recently. People favouring relatively light skin (racists and conspiracy theorists aside) are figuring that selection would have worked on them as it has on modern high-latitude people. At this point we just don't really know.
 
It would be surprising though if people like him contribute a significant amount of N Euro ancestry (and N Euros are light skinned). They also chose the darkest possible estimate from a range of possible pigmentations, which says it all really

Something like Yemenis is a pigmentation I could “accept” as plausible

I think he's lighter than many Eurasians like Papuans, Australians and especially Onge to whom he might have some additional affinities. If he had lighter skin it would have been caused by allelles that got lost anyway.
 
Jesus some people are soo concerned about white skin color it's embarrassing. Almost like they're embarrassed to be related to someone with a dark skin... Face it guys, you are recent descendants of dark people. Caucasians are the true white people. xD
 
chedarchedar2.jpg


I have made this recreation. I think they have done a good reconstruction, I have seen it working on it. The only thing that I think had given it a somewhat cannibalistic look and yet to my recreation I have seen more human aspects similar to modern man. His hair was graying gray and he could have had blue eyes or his children do not know, but he certainly did not have blue ones, it was rather that chestnut that looks red that would vary according to the light, there in the photo I was giving the light very fully it is understandable that they came out so red, poor man.
 

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