Bronze Age Balkan DNA

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Location
Poland
Ethnic group
Polish
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b-L617
mtDNA haplogroup
W6a
I have uploaded to GEDmatch Genesis:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#10/43.8352/16.1831

Sample I3313, Bronze Age, 1500-900 BC (from Dalmatia), kit number - SZ6386770

This one is more north-western than Iron Age Bulgarian:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/37958-Iron-Age-Balkan-DNA-on-GEDmatch

Similarity Map:

uUNh7mx.png


K15 PCA Graph:

Croatians can be modeled as a mix of this sample and modern Belgorod:

l3vQ8Wu.png


Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.73
2 West_Med 23.57
3 East_Med 15.67
4 Baltic 13.11
5 West_Asian 8.04
6 Red_Sea 2.87

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.07

2 Portuguese 6.25
3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.73
4 Spanish_Cataluna 6.9
5 Spanish_Galicia 7.37
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.51
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.79
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.9
9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.18
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.76
11 French 9.14
12 Spanish_Cantabria 10.07
13 Spanish_Aragon 11.5
14 Southwest_French 11.53
15 Tuscan 11.71
16 West_German 14.36
17 South_Dutch 14.77
18 Romanian 16.27
19 Serbian 16.71
20 Bulgarian 17.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Southwest_English @ 1.95
2 80.2% North_Italian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 1.99
3 80.1% North_Italian + 19.9% Irish @ 2.02
4 61% North_Italian + 39% French @ 2.17
5 79.9% North_Italian + 20.1% Orcadian @ 2.31
6 78% North_Italian + 22% Southeast_English @ 2.37
7 80.6% North_Italian + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 2.52
8 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% South_Dutch @ 2.56

9 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
10 82.3% North_Italian + 17.7% Norwegian @ 2.69
11 80.9% North_Italian + 19.1% Danish @ 2.69
12 87.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.1% Kurdish @ 2.78
13 88.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 11.2% Georgian @ 2.81
14 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Kumyk @ 2.82
15 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Armenian @ 2.83
16 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Adygei @ 2.85
17 72.5% North_Italian + 27.5% West_German @ 2.86
18 85.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.5% Turkish @ 2.87
19 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Azeri @ 2.89
20 86% Spanish_Valencia + 14% Lezgin @ 2.9
 
In this tool: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I3313 Bronze Age Dalmatia: Abscisse (x-axis): 338 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 271 pixel
I5769 Iron Age Bulgaria: Abscisse (x-axis): 446 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 393 pixel

So there was a west-east cline already in Pre-Slavic Balkans:

BvQlw0v.png
 
Can you please do the same thing for I4331 from the Genomic History of Southeastern Europe as well?
 
This isn't the J2b2 L283 sample ? Please upload the J2b2 L283. I could do it also myself but how do you do it ?
 
Very interesting.
It is known that Celts have been in Balkans, so these tests are rather supporting the idea that Celts came from East Europe and moved towards NW Europe.
In 1500-900 BC the Celts and the Thracians should have been already in Balkans.
 
DNA Land Ancestry Report for this Ancient Dalmatian sample:

P40rUSY.png
 
This is what it gets on MDLP World . Interesting

MDLP World:# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 52.54
2 North_and_East_European 20.61
3 Caucaus_Parsia 14.69
4 Middle_East 10.95
5 Sub_Saharian 0.44
6 Mesoamerican 0.36
7 Melanesian 0.26
8 Arctic_Amerind 0.15


Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian-North 3.09
2 Italian_North 5.35
3 Kosovar 6
4 Corsican 6.22
5 Provancal 7.13
6 Romania 7.99
7 Swiss 8.93
8 Portugese 9.11
9 Bulgarian 9.23
10 Montenegrin 10.04
11 Gagauz 10.09
12 Iberian 10.36
13 Macedonian 10.74
14 Spaniard 11.06
15 Greek_North 11.44
16 Greek_South 11.89

17 French 12.41
18 Greek_Center 12.61
19 Serbian 12.76
20 Italian-Center 13.38


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.7% Spaniard + 18.3% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.36
2 61% Kosovar + 39% Bulgarian @ 1.37
3 79.8% Spaniard + 20.2% Georgian_Laz @ 1.58
4 64.8% Kosovar + 35.2% Macedonian @ 1.7
5 63.4% Kosovar + 36.6% Gagauz @ 1.8
6 78.8% Spaniard + 21.2% Georgian @ 1.8
7 81.8% Spaniard + 18.2% Abhkasian @ 1.83
8 54% Basque + 46% Greek_Azov @ 1.92
9 65% Greek_North + 35% Basque @ 2.02
10 82.8% Iberian + 17.2% Abhkasian @ 2.2
11 63.7% Kosovar + 36.3% Montenegrin @ 2.24
12 90.8% Italian-North + 9.2% British @ 2.31
13 85.7% Italian-North + 14.3% French @ 2.32
14 80.1% Iberian + 19.9% Georgian @ 2.33
15 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% Orcadian @ 2.33
16 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% CEU @ 2.38
17 87.9% Italian-North + 12.1% German-South @ 2.4
18 91.9% Italian-North + 8.1% Welsh @ 2.41
19 77.9% Italian-North + 22.1% Provancal @ 2.43
20 93.1% Italian-North + 6.9% Norwegian_V @ 2.47
 
All I will say is I feel vindicated.

Maybe an open mind would help some people, before calling others, conspiracy theorists.

But then again... Broken clocks, and twice a day xD

Homer on the other hand is like an atomic clock, right on point.
Virgil too I guess, LUL @Strabo and his Cyclops.

Maybe the Illiad, the Argonautica and the Aeneid deserve some more respect.
 
All I will say is I feel vindicated.

Maybe an open mind would help some people, before calling others, conspiracy theorists.

But then again... Broken clocks, and twice a day xD

Homer on the other hand is like an atomic clock, right on point.
Virgil too I guess, LUL @Strabo and his Cyclops.

Maybe the Illiad, the Argonautica and the Aeneid deserve some more respect.
Mmmmmmmm.....atooooomic doughnuuuuuutssss
 
Puntdnal k10 ancient

Italian_North 2.052
Tuscan 5.73
Albanian 6.214

Bulgarian 6.865
Italian_South 7.046
Greek7.637
French 8.828
Spanish_Southwest9.969
Spanish_Northeast10.7210
German_South12.5311
Croatian13.0412
Sicilian14.1113
Hungarian14.9614
Utahn_white15.1715
Ashkenazi_Jew15.2316
Irish16.317
English_South17.3418
German_North18.9619
Czech19.1420
Scottish_West20.75
 
I have uploaded to GEDmatch Genesis:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#10/43.8352/16.1831

Sample I3313, Bronze Age, 1500-900 BC (from Dalmatia), kit number - SZ6386770

This one is more north-western than Iron Age Bulgarian:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/37958-Iron-Age-Balkan-DNA-on-GEDmatch

Similarity Map:

uUNh7mx.png


K15 PCA Graph:

Croatians can be modeled as a mix of this sample and modern Belgorod:

l3vQ8Wu.png


Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.73
2 West_Med 23.57
3 East_Med 15.67
4 Baltic 13.11
5 West_Asian 8.04
6 Red_Sea 2.87

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.07

2 Portuguese 6.25
3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.73
4 Spanish_Cataluna 6.9
5 Spanish_Galicia 7.37
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.51
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.79
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.9
9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.18
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.76
11 French 9.14
12 Spanish_Cantabria 10.07
13 Spanish_Aragon 11.5
14 Southwest_French 11.53
15 Tuscan 11.71
16 West_German 14.36
17 South_Dutch 14.77
18 Romanian 16.27
19 Serbian 16.71
20 Bulgarian 17.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Southwest_English @ 1.95
2 80.2% North_Italian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 1.99
3 80.1% North_Italian + 19.9% Irish @ 2.02
4 61% North_Italian + 39% French @ 2.17
5 79.9% North_Italian + 20.1% Orcadian @ 2.31
6 78% North_Italian + 22% Southeast_English @ 2.37
7 80.6% North_Italian + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 2.52
8 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% South_Dutch @ 2.56

9 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
10 82.3% North_Italian + 17.7% Norwegian @ 2.69
11 80.9% North_Italian + 19.1% Danish @ 2.69
12 87.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.1% Kurdish @ 2.78
13 88.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 11.2% Georgian @ 2.81
14 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Kumyk @ 2.82
15 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Armenian @ 2.83
16 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Adygei @ 2.85
17 72.5% North_Italian + 27.5% West_German @ 2.86
18 85.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.5% Turkish @ 2.87
19 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Azeri @ 2.89
20 86% Spanish_Valencia + 14% Lezgin @ 2.9

I was thinking and it is possible that this sample could belong to an ethnic Celtic, from Balkans.
If more samples with similar clustering are found in different places from Balkans, only then is possible to say that the Thracians from those times were clustering closer to the North Italians and people from Iberia.
 
Mmmmmmmm.....atooooomic doughnuuuuuutssss
Sound delicious, got to try me one of those! :giggle:


They do say that many Legends come from seeds of facts.
Who knows.
 
Another thing, this person could have been 3/4 Thracian and 1/4 Celtic and this would explain so well the results obtained.
If you do not believe that were Celts in Balkans, they were and this is attested by plenty of archaeological discoveries.
https://balkancelts.wordpress.com/
North Italians are Italo-Gaulish/Italo-Celtic mix, this is alto shown by the fact that the Lombard language is Gallo-Romance.
So, having this person clustering closest to North Italians and Iberians with some Gaulish blood it makes a lot of sense - Thracians were very close to Italic and Iberian people.
Now, Balkan people got Northern Shifted from mixing to the East Germanics, mostly and also, from Slavs.
Seems that the mixing with the Celts was also present but we do not know at what extent.
 
The sample isn't a Celt because this sample dates back before Celts (Bronze Age) Its just a proto Ilyrian sample or pre historic Balkanite. Celts never reached the Balkans at that time. They came later. And if they did, they would of been like any other Bronze Age or Iron Age invader.

And its basically like a Northern Albanian Gheg but with a extra North West shift.

289zseh.jpg


It can basically be moduled as 79% Balkan + 21% NW European / West European

Balkan in this case being a very vague term.
 
The sample is from between 1500 AD to 900 AD, is written in the initial post.
Around 1100 AD the Celtic speakers were already on the current land of Austria, in Hallstatt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture#Hallstatt_type_site

It is supposed that in Central Europe, around 1200 BC, the Proto-Celtic language was spoken:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

There is no Albanian so Northern shifted and Albanians did mixed somehow with the Goths.
This is attested by today Albanians paternal lines.
So most of today Albanians should more Northern Shifted than the Albanians that were living in Albania around 100 AD.
As a side note, the name Albania comes from Celtic languages, meaning a high land.
Scotland is still called Albannach because is a more elevated land, not lowlands.
 
The sample is from between 1500 AD to 900 AD, is written in the initial post.
Around 1100 AD the Celtic speakers were already on the current land of Austria, in Hallstatt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture#Hallstatt_type_site

It is supposed that in Central Europe, around 1200 BC, the Proto-Celtic language was spoken:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

There is no Albanian so Northern shifted and Albanians did mixed somehow with the Goths.
This is attested by today Albanians paternal lines.
So most of today Albanians should more Northern Shifted than the Albanians that were living in Albania around 100 AD.
As a side note, the name Albania comes from Celtic languages, meaning a high land.
Scotland is still called Albannach because is a more elevated land, not lowlands.

Agree on most of your points. According to ancient Greek mythology, Illyrians, Thracians and Celts were related.

vaRj161.png


Alp - Alb roots might be related. Depending on geographical location the root might stand for white, while in others it means mountains.

In Italian Alba means dusk. The side the Sun Rises.
 
Perhaps it is best to say the Bronze Age dude was simply an Indo-European and could have lacked the local ancient Balkan admixture which gave birth later to Illyrians and Thracians. No need to speculate on his actual ethnicity.
 
Perhaps it is best to say the Bronze Age dude was simply an Indo-European and could have lacked the local ancient Balkan admixture which gave birth later to Illyrians and Thracians. No need to speculate on his actual ethnicity.

Ditto Nik. One of the points I had an issue with.
 
Agree on most of your points. According to ancient Greek mythology, Illyrians, Thracians and Celts were related.

vaRj161.png


Alp - Alb roots might be related. Depending on geographical location the root might stand for white, while in others it means mountains.

In Italian Alba means dusk. The side the Sun Rises.

Very interesting.
 
Gash,

As requested I uploaded also I4331 Ancient Croatia with Y-DNA haplogroup J2b2a.

GEDmatch Genesis kit number - RL6378186

This male sample plots similar as the other Bronze Age Dalmatian (woman I3313):

Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 23.44
2 West_Med 22.65
3 Atlantic 22.42
4 East_Med 15.28
5 West_Asian 8.93
6 Baltic 4.91
7 Eastern_Euro 1.65
8 Red_Sea 0.72
9 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.76
2 Portuguese 8.96
3 Spanish_Galicia 9.36
4 Spanish_Extremadura 9.87
5 Spanish_Cataluna 9.96
6 Spanish_Murcia 10.16
7 Tuscan 10.54
8 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 10.91
9 Spanish_Andalucia 11.83
10 Spanish_Valencia 12.28
11 French 12.71
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 12.77
13 Spanish_Cantabria 13.24
14 Spanish_Aragon 14.36
15 Southwest_French 15.29
16 Greek_Thessaly 16.34
17 Italian_Abruzzo 16.42
18 West_Sicilian 16.96
19 South_Dutch 17.54
20 West_German 17.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% North_Italian + 16.1% West_German @ 5.97
2 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% Orcadian @ 6.02
3 90.2% North_Italian + 9.8% West_Norwegian @ 6.09
4 87.6% North_Italian + 12.4% Southwest_English @ 6.14
5 80% North_Italian + 20% French @ 6.17
6 89.1% North_Italian + 10.9% Southeast_English @ 6.24
7 90.9% North_Italian + 9.1% Norwegian @ 6.25
8 90.3% North_Italian + 9.7% North_Dutch @ 6.26
9 90.7% North_Italian + 9.3% West_Scottish @ 6.29
10 86.2% Portuguese + 13.8% Armenian @ 6.31
11 90.8% North_Italian + 9.2% Irish @ 6.33
12 91.8% North_Italian + 8.2% Swedish @ 6.34
13 85.3% Spanish_Galicia + 14.7% Armenian @ 6.35
14 91.2% North_Italian + 8.8% Danish @ 6.36
15 75.2% North_Italian + 24.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.38
16 88.7% North_Italian + 11.3% South_Dutch @ 6.43
17 76.7% North_Italian + 23.3% Portuguese @ 6.5
18 92.4% North_Italian + 7.6% North_German @ 6.51
19 84.1% Spanish_Cataluna + 15.9% Armenian @ 6.51
20 55.2% Spanish_Galicia + 44.8% Tuscan @ 6.54

If8VDiT.png


Similarity Map:

cyF1F2i.png


Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 34.32
2 West_Med 26.54
3 East_Med 18.52
4 Baltic 11
5 West_Asian 8.45
6 Red_Sea 0.92
7 Amerindian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 3.55
2 Spanish_Andalucia 7.92
3 Spanish_Extremadura 7.97
4 Portuguese 8.34
5 Spanish_Valencia 8.59
6 Spanish_Murcia 8.74
7 Tuscan 9.11
8 Spanish_Cataluna 9.17
9 Spanish_Galicia 9.71
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 9.86
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.94
12 Spanish_Cantabria 11.66
13 Spanish_Aragon 12.39
14 Southwest_French 13.17
15 French 13.69
16 West_Sicilian 15.8
17 Italian_Abruzzo 15.84
18 Greek_Thessaly 16.64
19 Romanian 17.28
20 Bulgarian 18.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.9% North_Italian + 9.1% French_Basque @ 2.64
2 77% North_Italian + 23% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.77
3 54.8% Southwest_French + 45.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.78
4 84.2% Spanish_Valencia + 15.8% Armenian @ 2.81
5 85.2% North_Italian + 14.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.87
6 81.2% North_Italian + 18.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.92
7 82.4% North_Italian + 17.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.93
8 80.3% North_Italian + 19.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.94
9 84.5% Spanish_Valencia + 15.5% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.96
10 85.7% North_Italian + 14.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.01
11 87.4% North_Italian + 12.6% Southwest_French @ 3.03
12 65.9% Spanish_Valencia + 34.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.05
13 70.7% Spanish_Cataluna + 29.3% South_Italian @ 3.05
14 70.7% Spanish_Valencia + 29.3% Central_Greek @ 3.06
15 82.5% North_Italian + 17.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.1
16 69.2% Spanish_Cataluna + 30.8% Central_Greek @ 3.14
17 58% Spanish_Cantabria + 42% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.18
18 85.7% North_Italian + 14.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.18
19 69.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 30.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.19
20 82.6% North_Italian + 17.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.2
 

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