Moralizing gods are the product of complex societies.

Angela

Elite member
Messages
21,823
Reaction score
12,327
Points
113
Ethnic group
Italian
The idea is that they were a way for complex cultures to stabilize their societies.

See:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...SHS6l-mh4t0NQq1Iotn3BW3_CPTAV35352sfHH1dRaA==

I'm not sure I buy it. The Roman Empire was pretty darn complex, and their gods weren't moralizing at all.

"The origins of religion and of complex societies represent evolutionary puzzles1–8. The ‘moralizing gods’ hypothesis offers a solution to both puzzles by proposing that belief in morally concerned supernatural agents culturally evolved to facilitate cooperation among strangers in large-scale societies9–13. Although previous research has suggested an association between the presence of moralizing gods and social complexity3,6,7,9–18, the relationship between the two is disputed9–13,19–24, and attempts to establish causality have been hampered by limitations in the availability of detailed global longitudinal data. To overcome these limitations, here we systematically coded records from 414societies that span the past 10,000years from 30regions around the world, using 51measures of social complexity and 4measures of supernatural enforcement of morality. Our analyses not only confirm the association between moralizing gods and social complexity, but also reveal that moralizing gods follow—rather than precede—large increases in social complexity. Contrary to previous predictions9,12,16,18, powerful moralizing ‘big gods’ and prosocial supernatural punishment tend to appear only after the emergence of ‘megasocieties’ with populations of more than around one million people. Moralizing gods are not a prerequisite for the evolution of social complexity, but they may help to sustain and expand complex multi-ethnic empires after they have become established. By contrast, rituals that facilitate the standardization of religious traditions across large populations25,26 generally precede the appearance of moralizing gods. This suggests that ritual practices were more important than the particular content of religious belief to the initial rise of social complexity."

95xaNGG.png
[/IMG]

They're putting the first appearance of this belief system in Egypt, which wasn't any more complex than Rome. Perhaps they're thinking of Amenhotep/Akhenaten.

However, the following Egyptian pharoahs tried to obliterate him and his new religion from the record.

The next appearance is among the Jews. I'm not so sure we can definitively say they got the idea from Amenhotep. Maybe he got it from them. :)

At any rate, it spread from there.

I definitely think there was an appeal to the idea, but I think in the beginning, when Christianity was an outlaw religion, the appeal was individual rather than societal. Of course, once it became the state religon the state used it.

You know, I remember reading some reports about how the rabid Nazis blamed the Jews for all the moralizing in Christianity which prohibited people from doing what they wanted. Maybe they had a point.

evolutionary puzzles
1–8
. The ‘moralizing gods’ hypothesis offers
a solution to both puzzles by proposing that belief in morally
concerned supernatural agents culturally evolved to facilitate
cooperation among strangers in large-scale societies
9–13
. Although
previous research has suggested an association between the presence
of moralizing gods and social complexity
3,6,7,9–18
, the relationship
between the two is disputed
9–13,19–24
, and attempts to establish
causality have been hampered by limitations in the availability of
detailed global longitudinal data. To overcome these limitations,
here we systematically coded records from 414societies that span
the past 10,000years from 30regions around the world, using
51measures of social complexity and 4measures of supernatural
enforcement of morality. Our analyses not only confirm the
association between moralizing gods and social complexity, but
also reveal that moralizing gods follow—rather than precede—
large increases in social complexity. Contrary to previous
predictions
9,12,16,18
, powerful moralizing ‘big gods’ and prosocial
supernatural punishment tend to appear only after the emergence
of ‘megasocieties’ with populations of more than around one million
people. Moralizing gods are not a prerequisite for the evolution
of social complexity, but they may help to sustain and expand
complex multi-ethnic empires after they have become established.
By contrast, rituals that facilitate the standardization of religious
traditions across large populations
25,26
generally precede the
appearance of moralizing gods. This suggests that ritual practices
were more important than the particular content of religious belief
to the initial rise of social complexity
 
The Greek Gods were definitely not moral gods, particularly Zeus. I mean he left his progeny everywhere! A philandering wife might claim that she was visited by him with good believability ;).
 
Last edited:
The Greek Gods were definitely not necessarily moral gods, particularly Zeus. I mean he left his progeny everywhere! Aphilandering wife might claim that she was visited by him with good believability ;).

Exactly. :) The goddesses were not much better. Capricious as well.

The Roman pantheon was the same.

They're basically trying to say, I think, that very complex societies create these moralizing, punishing gods in order to control people.

So, I still say, ancient Egypt, which they claim is where this first began, was a complex society, but more complex than Greece and Rome?

As for Israel, the second oldest site chronologically, if I'm reading their chart correctly, it was not at all a high population, really complex society. Also, all of the western spread was because of the spread of Christianity, which after all is a sub-sect of Judaism to Greece and then Rome and then onwards.
 

This thread has been viewed 4290 times.

Back
Top