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Carlos
01-04-19, 04:25
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KKTk23tvX-U/XKeDeL1qA_I/AAAAAAAAASo/40x4PBtrYWIiHoRkanw7Qy1jDZgXF9f5ACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orangeGRANDE.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Tg6R1Wwypis/XKF4CGRpn2I/AAAAAAAAAM8/AzOj0Pvq3xU_h2TZtkJadqGqK1R_70pQgCLcBGAs/s640/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25282%2529.png

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Kovzozf3DQA/XKF5KcfR9FI/AAAAAAAAANI/sbAGrTI2askoTytzlvzZM-v9YlXY82f1ACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25283%2529.png


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qAkacDWyjhw/XKF7NwjhUVI/AAAAAAAAANU/zATnXh2IwVoYkUgQRNmkw5BIpew9yw11gCLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25284%2529montegato.p ng


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9fux7AVsbvo/XKIYswhOysI/AAAAAAAAANg/uJOzHh6dTSA3GcQvhj3OLzkamZalx2aFACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient3dformationcranel.png

Publica tu tasa de similitud con diferentes genomas antiguos.

Duarte
01-04-19, 16:35
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ecP8HYj02dc/XKF0kNBn3JI/AAAAAAAAAMo/3VHjj8ifBdYid5wEgHBZ8qoHCdJs1LY1ACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient14.png

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Tg6R1Wwypis/XKF4CGRpn2I/AAAAAAAAAM8/AzOj0Pvq3xU_h2TZtkJadqGqK1R_70pQgCLcBGAs/s640/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25282%2529.png

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Kovzozf3DQA/XKF5KcfR9FI/AAAAAAAAANI/sbAGrTI2askoTytzlvzZM-v9YlXY82f1ACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25283%2529.png


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qAkacDWyjhw/XKF7NwjhUVI/AAAAAAAAANU/zATnXh2IwVoYkUgQRNmkw5BIpew9yw11gCLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25284%2529montegato.p ng


I found this in Gedmatch, can you believe in this?

Mine

1)300 AD - Germany (Roman Soldier) FN2 80
2)1,800 BC - Hungary (Maros) - Rise373 72
3)1,200 BC - Hungary - BR2 66
4)3,000 BC - Ireland - Ballinahatty 66
5)500 AD - Bavaria - NW 54 65
6)3,220 BC - Germany - Esperdstedt 63
7)3,000 BC - Sweden - Gokhem2 62
8)1,500 BC - Portugal - Torre Vehla 32032 62
9)1,500 BC - Portugal - Monte Gato 62
10)1,800 BC - Hungary (Maros) - Rise374 61
11)1,500 BC - Portugal - Torre Vehla 3831 60
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aZcanYw43hBQp6zsofxt4GLBs54sbhVqVU4QZVqXUSns1pA2-P3PXtn6tnwn0fOyXfy0RuIW25DxpRUjFPVok0SRpyZykJJnorG dGqB2__xZJIrffZ-rIVIuUF5nXz0TEifZRe-zVpPFWqQApVBXA7jT83LUnGErZh3L-gg3-y73ZGjiaEVuDZ8IfwGTZCYP1mnQJVNa82Sp9XorWuwRUtKpqYu RV7fmefB5AjI0gjOT7s9_n2Jjj-uF3yMil-sKFnh63QgOx5NHILspsRZy629vRppuCLoh6M3nSrWFQEcIJETb UNkSGOfT8YZP57dHsYWyNCZuNi8aySqlabuZ938_cC_vAabBQr A0w5D_bvxjoLWZo4jJlRPN5keEsXLS7auyJF-gdBJLyQan5EUS3ZEQ-GeUtKTFwjH7uyVajBn147JKZ3QkXmrDiJGqpx828zTF5bf4dHa 8eyF1Zuuxukm4R8U06XRVcsyRyEwgLc2ewvKWlO-3kRlgiArz6C7fxS6Dbveyc3yiNjmMoIcsnnBb83K982FfBDUlE l8M8d5p7PKjEIPb7-HVUEcESt6BlYkl4a0_PRRzvU1EWsfbpzuSKt7yKUXCKs9l1ZWA NpG8lw7umNCZspwBUn2KH39SD7EjFZIor9XhtaaOTvZCcEuKxV ubnr4=w899-h339-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/m2J-w58ik1geSTIjucDNfBa1ptgMHYkPuWfGGudr8LZBpVLpw4scNL OrF9SoBnVmMByTU3lRhtacmKor7ftW0V0wHwQ_NfMXm4wYXrSo-Ni8EnvKsKNv4XaFj4IDYl5hrFsWiTakk6P1FM1Iq94TBLg1_wY 02BOGs3zXaQXN1a8_1JnJAlx2SB0nYhjkBCgtkfdmwFsJ7Skp2 qRyZSKR9enhDJUoOwOog8809vayvF4yxIY1rX-5vnHTGMBILJ5Rxvk_Vch-JjTZJbklL7RwubhcgwFlmcOFxFHVea3pcWf3QJ0uyWNYjBED7E wOA0JjeTbggmErTy8jW9IeGIIE59pjKiBWaQGoxFkNrKdb-a8pfUO2mSJ-Bp_chtQo3A5XqP3zzriKdQuX0DFIjsjYJ5GXMnPWH8XUqyNjT8 t34bt36gJ3_Ix6pgsv6ExUmynEfIG1uLqOhQUTz67Aqg3VD2zf YQY7BBEU6hjbpLBcyD8jQFqCNULodYWDoRgTFJs7wNfCmDndv8 WjZzQqk-eaBG5ixmSEZdOjphbMaIYdI3Z0JFWMHhnN6jSMKTmIBY_813yF Jw3mU3NE3FYIasYqxc_MDJ--zqu1acksH2oCsYAYzgEiT_SA182hVtfn10woO53SaIhshwls53 fewV6X97SC6OKRX6w=w881-h494-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Q6MS3bS2ucKyjxPa-FqLoX9Nvj2UTvDYZoKZsbxCxjzNd9OvXmFtE0aD-aZKTZnGHPZk_CG12pn1Orr_BwjzqsdCf6rh1r3SfoE38VFdM1M cG4r1U0reNzDz5f8_lezp3wl7PW036gdYYzsnR6TZTUqt6dCKZ wcxL2ARLJVOve-uHpPkCgj-ShbZyK61ZHdY9-5tupsgvzplsaiyDcpyAtSeKczMIgoqQTu60vvdkbLQtindAIey TU11Bj_E9MA5gzMOVRodG85t0i_NxSNGoE7K5OvtJo-2StjvcuJ7bp2daRvWNv4NMFrdwwA_kdzVWE580ScUolW1hcspk bt5FDbS6O1dnlhF2Om6XljyIPgKv6bnzZCJx4HJC2NZXNPr9oF P-wiY_n8F_MEBBogI4t2Wu98FtAhcsGCLqB3XloooykkqtHtd7cd hQBmhlRnH8zNHkFYGOMHaqFV1vzCa_ItBggTv2UiAdwAxG3fdr Sz7hfKdG5_A2BNqEvO1UsvcTls_tVziSAc4uyzMADYt-seUneEErrsASErTqoWRO0Ok7wgwwxZJ-MDAZhv_7HId4I3fu9hyBb0j3CEqDlizeCravroctCKQ5kQ1cK0 FmbY5xvCmPzyfUZqikqdmAqjPkgPOK7KDgRupbM3YDSCSu0PCL hQxELc=w854-h564-no
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17PI_1i-2BkZo0Wr_IWCI1DPUsilwnrbA?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17PI_1i-2BkZo0Wr_IWCI1DPUsilwnrbA?usp=sharing)

WOOHOO. I am 80% similar to a Roman soldier who invaded the ancient germania. Save the Empire. Save the Emperor. Save Caesar. LMAO.

Hugs Carlos :)




https://drive.google.com/file/d/1irNH2A0X3AJA_J4cOB9POlU85KgXp-dI/view?usp=sharing

Carlos
01-04-19, 16:47
^^
Woow

Do you think the soldier could come from the south west of Iberia?

I also have a 15 with the Egyptian mummy JK2911

Duarte
01-04-19, 17:02
^^
Woow

Do you think the soldier could come from the south west of Iberia?

I also have a 15 with the Egyptian mummy JK2911

^^
We're almost at the same level in ancient Egypt. I have 14 of this same JK2911 mummy.
I liked the idea of being a Roman soldier from the south-west of Iberia and who invaded the center of Europe. LOL.

Carlos
01-04-19, 21:28
It had to be turdetano descendant of the old tartessos and these in turn would go back to The Argar.

Duarte
02-04-19, 01:05
It had to be turdetano descendant of the old tartessos and these in turn would go back to The Argar.

Dear friend Carlos.

It seems that the Roman soldier was really Iberian. See these two posts extracted from BLOG linked below:
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/03/first-real-foray-into-migration-period.html?m=1

POST 1:
---Germany_Roman:FN_2

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE”
Spanish_Baleares / Spanish_Cataluna
2.403037 / 2.657032
Spanish_Murcia / Spanish_Cantabria
2.766374 / 2.908718
Spanish_Andalucia / Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
2.940393 / 3.080841
Hungary_BA / Spanish_Aragon
3.084510 / 3.128334

POST 2:
The Roman soldier was probably from Aquitaine in South France/North Spain. He clusters with modern Basque & south French.

Salento
02-04-19, 01:19
(From “Gladiator”)

Spaniard Roman General in .... ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
(cool dog too)



https://youtu.be/T0SNjnsi_rM
EDITED:


https://youtu.be/fyeMkEcUA88

Carlos
02-04-19, 02:02
^^
The video is not available. The video is not available. It says: It is blocked in your country by copyright.

Video is not available
This video includes content from Universal Pictures (ZEFR), which has blocked it in your country for copyright reasons.

Carlos
02-04-19, 02:05
Dear friend Carlos.

It seems that the Roman soldier was really Iberian. See these two posts extracted from BLOG linked below:
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/03/first-real-foray-into-migration-period.html?m=1

POST 1:
---Germany_Roman:FN_2

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE”
Spanish_Baleares / Spanish_Cataluna
2.403037 / 2.657032
Spanish_Murcia / Spanish_Cantabria
2.766374 / 2.908718
Spanish_Andalucia / Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
2.940393 / 3.080841
Hungary_BA / Spanish_Aragon
3.084510 / 3.128334

POST 2:
The Roman soldier was probably from Aquitaine in South France/North Spain. He clusters with modern Basque & south French.


Different places of Spain from North to South. The only one who could collect something like that would be Tartessos (Turdetania) where you know there were people from the north of Iberia, I think.

So the similarity in this case may be from my mother's side.

Carlos
02-04-19, 02:12
Is this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXiSp9aJYN4

Salento
02-04-19, 02:14
Yes :) ...

Pan
02-04-19, 02:18
500 AD - Bavaria - STR 310: 71
300 AD - Ostrogoth KE1: 66
500 AD - Bavaria - NW 54: 66
1,200 BC - Hungary - BR2: 64
500 AD - Bavaria - STR 300: 64
1,300 BC - Mycenaean - I9006: 63


"From the individuals of intermediate skull size, one female (STR_310) exhibited the same southern European ancestry profile found in most other females with clear skull deformation"

"Some females with ACD could be argued to demonstrate grave assemblages associated with an eastern context (STR_328, AEH_1), but others were not specific (NW_54)"

"The only exceptions to this general pattern of northern/central European ancestry were the two women, STR_300 and STR_502, which were of a more southern ancestry associated with present day Greece and Turkey, respectively"

-- Veeramah et al., "Population genomic analysis of elongated skulls reveals extensive female-biased immigration in Early Medieval Bavaria", in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 115(13):201719880, March 2018


"Our two Bronze Age samples, BR1 (1,980–2,190 cal BC) and BR2 (1,110–1,270 cal BC) fall among modern Central European genotypes. [...] These two Bronze Age genomes represent the oldest genomic data sampled to date with clear Central European affinities."

-- Gamba et al., "Genome flux and stasis in a five millennium transect of European prehistory", Nature Communications volume 5, Article number: 5257 (2014)




Individual_ID
Genotype_ID
Other_ID
Source
Date
Population_Label
Location
Country
Latitude
Longitude
Sex
Coverage
Autosomal_SNPs
mtDNA
Y-chromosome


I9006
I9006
Salamis31
1240K
1411-1262 cal BCE (3067 ± 25 BP, DEM-2905)
Mycenaean
Agia Kyriaki, Salamis
Greece
37.97
23.50
F
1.387
361193
X2d











ID
Population
PBlueEye
PIntermediateEye
PBrownEye
PBlondHair
PBrownHair
PRedHair
PBlackHair
PLightHair
PDarkHair
Hair Color
Eye Clor


I9006
Mycenaean
0.0 (0.0)
1.1 (0.4)
98.9 (0.4)
8.7 (4.9)
59.9 (6.4)
1.8 (2.9)
29.6 (11.8)
25.7 (16.5)
74.3 (16.5)
Brown
Brown



-- Lazaridis et al., "Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans", Nature. 2017 Aug 10; 548(7666): 214–218.

Carlos
02-04-19, 02:42
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Kovzozf3DQA/XKF5KcfR9FI/AAAAAAAAANI/sbAGrTI2askoTytzlvzZM-v9YlXY82f1ACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25283%2529.png

And these gladiators were a group of brothers or relatives or came from the same area ...?


I could find that they were taller than the natives and muscular but why they buried them with their heads next to their bodies. I have not found more information.

Salento
02-04-19, 02:54
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Kovzozf3DQA/XKF5KcfR9FI/AAAAAAAAANI/sbAGrTI2askoTytzlvzZM-v9YlXY82f1ACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_ancient.htm%2B%25283%2529.png

And these gladiators were a group of brothers or relatives or came from the same area ...?


I could find that they were taller than the natives and muscular but why they buried them with their heads next to their bodies. I have not found more information.


I heard about them, most of the Gladiators were more like Northern Europeans types, some from Britain, and one Middle Easterner or North African. (I Think.)

davef
02-04-19, 04:14
I'm quite the charming fellow...100 percent similarity to Lady Cheddarly

Carlos
02-04-19, 04:42
^^

Soon I will open a thread in honor of Lady Cheddarly for having been the progenitor of this new system in which through free reconstructions using different digital media you can get to know other aspects about the qualities of those beings who lived thousands of years ago and that science could never solve. Maybe the Lady Cheddarly method is not infallible but it's the only thing we have.

Ygorcs
02-04-19, 05:35
Intuitively, some of these comparative results look so weird. I mean, less similarity with Minoans from the BA Aegean (18) than with Paleolithic Ust' Ishim, who barely contributed anything to the modern European population? Ust'Ishim looks much closer than Mal'ta (3), which is demonstrably connected to the ANE that does exist in most modern Europeans via the steppe ancestry. There are other strange results like that. Or are each of these groups (e.g. Paleolithic before glaciation, Northwestern Europe, etc.) to be judged on their own, that is, their results would not be comparable with those included in another group, only with those under the same label?

Angela
02-04-19, 05:57
Intuitively, some of these comparative results look so weird. I mean, less similarity with Minoans from the BA Aegean (18) than with Paleolithic Ust' Ishim, who barely contributed anything to the modern European population? Ust'Ishim looks much closer than Mal'ta (3), which is demonstrably connected to the ANE that does exist in most modern Europeans via the steppe ancestry. There are other strange results like that. Or are each of these groups (e.g. Paleolithic before glaciation, Northwestern Europe, etc.) to be judged on their own, that is, their results would not be comparable with those included in another group, only with those under the same label?

You're right. It doesn't make sense.

leperrine
02-04-19, 06:20
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26055744_10155985471332378_3278445216686471459_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=ce330916634c7d45f67bcd1df4b6c344&oe=5D03C05E
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26114088_10155985477852378_2060634328599318062_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=cc4cb45574343f0b5f8894b429542dbe&oe=5D436B66
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26166410_10155985480112378_1849011090961632012_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=4e0b4bfdaf405f1a960519d9abfdc621&oe=5D0B8DB3https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26167139_10155985481842378_2298756657265516876_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=aeaf55d15015df67cb1bab8897ac36c9&oe=5D3C958D
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26167927_10155985486242378_3868681171872054034_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=06c199dc2683f7b96458ebdc58790ba8&oe=5D4930F5

Duarte
02-04-19, 15:02
In case of portuguese and catalanes the match with hungary (maros) - rise 373 (mt_hg K1a2a) make some sense.


The biggest match of Portuguese people (at least, is what I could see) is with 1,800 BC - Hungary (Maros) - Rise373.


Maciamo Hay explain that "the vast majority of Neolithic samples from Central and Western Europe were K1a, including subclades such as K1a1b1 (Spain), K1a2a (Catalonia and Portugal), K1a3a3 (Hungary), K1a4a1 (Catalonia and Germany), and K1a5 (Sweden)".


See in:


https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_K_mtDNA.shtml

Jovialis
02-04-19, 18:48
https://i.imgur.com/mPRwQ7x.png

I show the strongest affinity to the Mycenaean I9006, followed by Tepecik 002, and Mycenaean I9041. Supporting my point here:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38120-The-Arrival-of-Steppe-Iranian-Related-Ancestry-in-Islands-of-West-Mediterranean/page3?p=571065#post571065

xri34
02-04-19, 19:48
https://i.imgur.com/mPRwQ7x.png

I show the strongest affinity to the Mycenaean I9006, followed by Tepecik 002, and Mycenaean I9041. Supporting my point here:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38120-The-Arrival-of-Steppe-Iranian-Related-Ancestry-in-Islands-of-West-Mediterranean/page3?p=571065#post571065

I assume you are Greek. Which part of Greece are you from?

Salento
02-04-19, 20:02
https://i.imgur.com/mPRwQ7x.png

I show the strongest affinity to the Mycenaean I9006, followed by Tepecik 002, and Mycenaean I9041. Supporting my point here:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38120-The-Arrival-of-Steppe-Iranian-Related-Ancestry-in-Islands-of-West-Mediterranean/page3?p=571065#post571065

Comparing ... :) we should add Bavaria STR300, to the Mycenaean 19006 and Tepecik 002.

EDITED: mix-Raw-Data

http://i.imgur.com/rvkxCYc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/11IH2B7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JbnwPRC.jpg

Jovialis
02-04-19, 20:18
I assume you are Greek. Which part of Greece are you from?

I'm not Greek, my family is from the region of Bari. Though southern Italy was influenced by Greek settlement. At any rate, in the linked thread, I pointed out that the proposed ABA expansion into Southern Italy was very similar to that of the Mycenaean samples, as the K20 ADMIXTURE analysis chart shows. Not that the ABA in the early to middle bronze age were Mycenaean; I think the chart shows they were similar to each other genetically nonetheless.

Note: I've merged some posts from another thread, about this calculator, into Carlos' thread.

Angela
02-04-19, 21:58
https://i.imgur.com/pM5YU0c.png

https://i.imgur.com/h8gj7GR.png

Clearly southern European, but after that a bit all over the place.

This is the real surprise.
70-500 AD 54 NW Bavaria, one of the skull deformation women. That’s the one that isn’t quite in the “eastern” group of the “southern European” cluster of women, right, so maybe not as “Balkan”?
67-Roman soldier maybe from Iberia?
65 for the Bavarian STR 310, which is “Southern European”, no skull deformation and 62 for Bavarian 300 Greece or Turkey.
65 also for Mycenaean.
Maybe I should get honorary ancient Greek citizenship? Should I change allegiance? I was always for the Trojans. ������ Iberian one is maybe closer though.

62 LBK
62 Boncuklu
62 Another Mycenaean
61 Hungary Neolithic 1
61 Maros
60 Hungary Bronze Age 2
60 Germany Bell Beaker
60 Crimea Ostrogoth (That's an odd one.)
58 Northwestern European gladiator
56 Tepecik
55 NW Turkey 3850 BC
54 Portugal Torre Vehla
52 Remedello (This relatively low score surprises me. Why don't they have Oetzi?)

Highest “Northern” scores
41 Denmark
40 Poland
Why don’t they have the Langobards?

I guess it makes sense that the relatively "late" southern Europeans from 500 AD are the best match for me. Also, this seems generally correct for a Central Southern Europe: midway between Iberians and Greeks.

@Jovialis,
You're still King.
My husband is only 67 for Mycenaean. :)

Joey37
02-04-19, 22:31
10863Cranial deformed Bavarian represent!

davef
02-04-19, 22:41
Intuitively, some of these comparative results look so weird. I mean, less similarity with Minoans from the BA Aegean (18) than with Paleolithic Ust' Ishim, who barely contributed anything to the modern European population? Ust'Ishim looks much closer than Mal'ta (3), which is demonstrably connected to the ANE that does exist in most modern Europeans via the steppe ancestry. There are other strange results like that. Or are each of these groups (e.g. Paleolithic before glaciation, Northwestern Europe, etc.) to be judged on their own, that is, their results would not be comparable with those included in another group, only with those under the same label?
Yeah that took me by surprise.

To anyone: what does it even do? Does it compare calculator results with these samples and from there tries to predict your ancestry based on them like those gedmatch oracles?

Angela
02-04-19, 22:57
10863Cranial deformed Bavarian represent!

Joey, it's not visible. Usually I make an imgur image of it and then post.

Or if not, do you have a site?

xri34
03-04-19, 02:13
I'm not Greek, my family is from the region of Bari. Though southern Italy was influenced by Greek settlement. At any rate, in the linked thread, I pointed out that the proposed ABA expansion into Southern Italy was very similar to that of the Mycenaean samples, as the K20 ADMIXTURE analysis chart shows. Not that the ABA in the early to middle bronze age were Mycenaean; I think the chart shows they were similar to each other genetically nonetheless.

Note: I've merged some posts from another thread, about this calculator, into Carlos' thread.

Yes, it makes sense! These Myceneans were close to South Italy. I am closer to Abruzzo genetically and I have only 65-66% genetic similarity with them. I have 72% with the medieval Greek str 300 sample. I would be interested to see your gedmatch results. Could you post eurogenes k15 and dodecad k12b?

davef
03-04-19, 05:45
Yeah that took me by surprise.

To anyone: what does it even do? Does it compare calculator results with these samples and from there tries to predict your ancestry based on them like those gedmatch oracles?

I found out earlier that it uses your eurogenes "k36" results so it's a magic 8 ball. And I'm sure south Italians are in reality significantly more than 67 percent Mycenaean like so this calculator underestimates that affinity quite a bit

Salento
03-04-19, 06:39
I found out earlier that it uses your eurogenes "k36" results so it's a magic 8 ball. And I'm sure south Italians are in reality significantly more than 67 percent Mycenaean like so this calculator underestimates that affinity quite a bit
These are general indicators and are fun to play around.
Hopefully, as time goes on, and new data is collected, imputation will improve.

check this one out:
my genes leaving a mark :)

Era of Empires (about 1700 to 2000 years ago)
http://i.imgur.com/xspJdzj.jpg

1700 years ago (Roman Era)

http://i.imgur.com/1zlhxDZ.jpg

Duarte
03-04-19, 12:53
These are general indicators and are fun to play around.
Hopefully, as time goes on, and new data is collected, imputation will improve.

check this one out:
my genes leaving a mark :)

Era of Empires (about 1700 to 2000 years ago)
http://i.imgur.com/xspJdzj.jpg

1700 years ago (Roman Era)

http://i.imgur.com/1zlhxDZ.jpg

Hi Salento.
From 1700 years ago I believe that both of us must have many skeletons of cousins in common. His cousins invaded the Iberian peninsula. What evil!!!! LOL. Some skeletons of our cousins have already been found, others are still waiting to be found. I hope none of them will be like Mumm-Ra of ThunderCats and will say: Ancient spirits of evil. Transform that decadent form into Mumm-Ra. Remember: The ancient spirits of evil often provide to Mumm-Ra with a source of knowledge of ancient or magical events. I hava afraid of the voodoo of these ancient mummies and skeletons. LOL.
There is a superstition involving Ötzi. According to the belief, there is believed to be a curse around the quinque-milenar mummy who would be angry with people who disturbed her in her rest. So far 7 of the people who came in contact with the frozen corpse had strange accidents that resulted in death. Among them are scientists who studied the body and the discoverer of Ötzi, Helmut Simon, who died ironically in a strong snowstorm and died in the same position as Õtzi, while walking through Austria in a region 100 km from the original site. OMG!!!!

Salento
03-04-19, 13:23
Do not be afraid of the Dead, be afraid of the Living.

yep :) LOL

TardisBlue
03-04-19, 19:19
Mine: https://i.ibb.co/yXdLxrQ/ancient-genomes-similarity-23-me.png

Jovialis
03-04-19, 20:49
Yes, it makes sense! These Myceneans were close to South Italy. I am closer to Abruzzo genetically and I have only 65-66% genetic similarity with them. I have 72% with the medieval Greek str 300 sample. I would be interested to see your gedmatch results. Could you post eurogenes k15 and dodecad k12b?

Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.94


Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Central_Greek @ 5.529039


Dodecad K12b Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 C_Italian (Dodecad) 6.78


Dodecad K12b Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 7.297379

If there was a population from my specific area in these calculators, it would be the closest match. Pugliese are between Central Italy, Central Greece, and other Southern Italians. They're all pretty close to each other nonetheless.

xri34
03-04-19, 22:58
Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.94


Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Central_Greek @ 5.529039


Dodecad K12b Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 C_Italian (Dodecad) 6.78


Dodecad K12b Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 7.297379

If there was a population from my specific area in these calculators, it would be the closest match. Pugliese are between Central Italy, Central Greece, and other Southern Italians. They're all pretty close to each other nonetheless.

We are close. I have similar distances from those populations and in general Greek and south-central/south Italian populations. Our difference must be that I have 10.5 and 12.5 distance from Bulgaria on these calculators while you must have over 15.

Salento
04-04-19, 00:13
Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.94
Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Central_Greek @ 5.529039
Dodecad K12b Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 C_Italian (Dodecad) 6.78
Dodecad K12b Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 7.297379
If there was a population from my specific area in these calculators, it would be the closest match. Pugliese are between Central Italy, Central Greece, and other Southern Italians. They're all pretty close to each other nonetheless.

Some of these calculators have no idea who we are.

Eur. V2 K15, 3 RawData, 3 different Top populations.
23, Anc, ...

https://i.imgur.com/fMp7kkb.gif

Regio X
04-04-19, 17:27
Dear friend Carlos.
It seems that the Roman soldier was really Iberian. See these two posts extracted from BLOG linked below:
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/03/first-real-foray-into-migration-period.html?m=1
POST 1:
---Germany_Roman:FN_2
[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE”
Spanish_Baleares / Spanish_Cataluna
2.403037 / 2.657032
Spanish_Murcia / Spanish_Cantabria
2.766374 / 2.908718
Spanish_Andalucia / Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
2.940393 / 3.080841
Hungary_BA / Spanish_Aragon
3.084510 / 3.128334

POST 2:
The Roman soldier was probably from Aquitaine in South France/North Spain. He clusters with modern Basque & south French.Nice. :)

But not sure he was from France or Spain. Maybe. However, his autosomal makeup resembles "modern" (!) North Spanish's and South French's. I'm not sure North Italians were the same those days, considering there were movements in Europe since 300 AD. We don't know either how people of Raeti stock looked like, for example, and apparently there were Raetian-speaking people in Northeastern Italy till ~3rd century AD. Raeti were related to Etruscans supposedly, and if that famous and controversial PCA is correct, Etruscans wouldn't be that different from modern Iberians.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1rfyRUeQKSE/VUp1FtC48DI/AAAAAAAAKE0/aprJv89-94k/s1600/etruscans.jpg

Indeed, the Roman Soldier belonged to Y haplogroup G-L42, typical of the Alps and surroundings. Switzerland, North Italy, SW Germany, Tyrol...
FN2 shares a common patrilineal ancestor from 500 BC with a Swedish, a German and a South Italian.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z40854/

Angela
04-04-19, 17:52
Nice. :)

But not sure he was from French or Spain. Maybe. However, his autosomal makeup resembles "modern" (!) North Spanish's and South French's. I'm not sure North Italians were the same those days, since there were movements in Europe since 300 AD. We don't know either how people of Raeti stock looked like, for example, and apparently there were Raetian-speaking people in Northeastern Italy till ~3rd century AD. Raeti were related to Etruscans supposedly, and if that famous and controversial PCA is correct, Etruscans wouldn't be that different from modern Iberians.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1rfyRUeQKSE/VUp1FtC48DI/AAAAAAAAKE0/aprJv89-94k/s1600/etruscans.jpg

Indeed, the Roman Soldier belonged to Y haplogroup G-L42, typical from the Alps and surroundings. Switzerland, North Italy, SW Germany, Tyrol... FN2 shares a common ancestor from 500 BC with a Swedish, a German and a South Italian.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z40854/

Yes, I was thinking that too. Perhaps he was from here:
https://www.shorthistory.org/images/Transalpine-Cisalpine-Gaul-and-Illyricum.jpg

At any rate, my similarity to him is 67%. My only higher one is that "Bavarian" woman from 500 AD. at 70%. Apparently, she was Southern European, but not of the particularly "eastern" variety. I don't know. Maybe northern Balkans like?

@Jovialis,

I rechecked my husband's results, and he ties you for similarity to Myceneans: 76. It's for the second one, however. So ungrateful. His response was, "I hope it's not someone like that jerk Achilles or Agamemnon and his brother. Ulysees would be ok." :)

I know what he means, but they had a very advanced civilization, and dominated their era. I too could do without all that militarism and glory seeking, however.

He wants to be like Plato and Aristotle and Pericles, at any rate an Athenian, not a Spartan. Let's see if they're much different. :)

Jovialis
04-04-19, 18:03
Yes, I was thinking that too. Perhaps he was from here:
https://www.shorthistory.org/images/Transalpine-Cisalpine-Gaul-and-Illyricum.jpg

At any rate, my similarity to him is 67%. My only higher one is that "Bavarian" woman from 500 AD. at 70%. Apparently, she was Southern European, but not of the particularly "eastern" variety. I don't know. Maybe northern Balkans like?

@Jovialis,

I rechecked my husband's results, and he ties you for similarity to Myceneans: 76. It's for the second one, however. So ungrateful. His response was, "I hope it's not someone like that jerk Achilles or Agamemnon and his brother. Ulysees would be ok." :) I sort of agree.

He wants to be like Plato and Aristotle and Pericles. Let's see if they're much different. :)

Nice! It really is fascinating! They should re-make Troy starring us :grin:

Salento
04-04-19, 18:47
Nice! It really is fascinating! They should re-make Troy starring us :grin:

Can I ask which Raw-Data you ran? I don’t remember what I used, if I have it, I’ll run it again.

Jovialis
04-04-19, 18:51
Can I ask which Raw-Data you ran? I don’t remember what I used, if I have it, I’ll run it again.

It was the one that combines 23andme, AncestryDNA, Geno 2.0, and LivingDNA.

Angela
04-04-19, 18:59
Fwiw, the only data I have for my husband is 23andme. He has both Campanian ( Benevento) and Calabrian (province of Regio) ancestry.

I'm curious to see Sicilian results.

Salento
04-04-19, 19:01
It was the one that combines 23andme, AncestryDNA, Geno 2.0, and LivingDNA.

Thanks, I have to make a new one. :)

also, :thinking: in the South of Puglia the colonists were Spartans, but most of them got massacred by the Messapi, and to a degree in Calabria too.

Angela
04-04-19, 19:03
Fwiw, the only data I have for my husband is 23andme. He has both Campanian ( Benevento) and Calabrian (province of Regio) ancestry.

I'm curious to see Sicilian results.

I want to emphasize this is for fun as far as I'm concerned, especially because the algorithm is based on Eurogenes calculators, which in my opinion are skewed toward Eastern and North Eastern Europeans.

Jovialis
04-04-19, 19:05
Fwiw, the only data I have for my husband is 23andme. He has both Campanian ( Benevento) and Calabrian (province of Regio) ancestry.

I'm curious to see Sicilian results.

It is V3 of 23andme I recall? I remembered it tested for over a million SNPs with that version. The combined version from the other raw data files I used also brings it to over a million SNPs too.

Angela
04-04-19, 19:17
It is V3 of 23andme I recall? I remembered it tested for over a million SNPs with that version. The combined version from the other raw data files I used also brings it to over a million SNPs too.

That's right. I have both that and the newer one. Not a lot of difference, but some.

I trust the 23andme results.

Duarte
04-04-19, 19:48
Yes, I was thinking that too. Perhaps he was from here:
https://www.shorthistory.org/images/Transalpine-Cisalpine-Gaul-and-Illyricum.jpg

At any rate, my similarity to him is 67%. My only higher one is that "Bavarian" woman from 500 AD. at 70%. Apparently, she was Southern European, but not of the particularly "eastern" variety. I don't know. Maybe northern Balkans like?

@Jovialis,

I rechecked my husband's results, and he ties you for similarity to Myceneans: 76. It's for the second one, however. So ungrateful. His response was, "I hope it's not someone like that jerk Achilles or Agamemnon and his brother. Ulysees would be ok." :)

I know what he means, but they had a very advanced civilization, and dominated their era. I too could do without all that militarism and glory seeking, however.

He wants to be like Plato and Aristotle and Pericles, at any rate an Athenian, not a Spartan. Let's see if they're much different. :)

Europe experienced a profound cultural transformation between Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages that laid the foundations of the modern political, social, and religious landscape. During this period, colloquially known as the “Migration Period,” the Roman Empire gradually dissolved, with 5th and 6th century historiographers and contemporary witnesses describing the formation and migration of numerous Germanic peoples, such as the Goths, Alamanni, Gepids, and Longobards. However, the genetic and social composition of groups involved and the exact nature of these “migrations” are unclear and have been a subject of substantial historical and archaeological debate (1 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#ref-1)).
In the mid 6th century AD, the historiographer Jordanes and the poet and hagiographer Venantius Fortunatus provide the first mention of a group known as the Baiuvarii that resided in modern day Bavaria. It is likely that this group had already started to form in the 5th century AD, and that it emanated from a combination of the romanized local population of the border province of the former Roman Empire and immigrants from north of the Danube (2 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#ref-2)). While the Baiuvarii are less well known than some other contemporary groups, an interesting archaeological feature in Bavaria from this period is the presence of skeletons with artificially deformed or elongated skulls (Fig. 1A (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F1)).
https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F1.medium.gif
Artificial cranial deformation (ACD), which is only possible during early childhood, is a deliberate and permanent shaping of the head performed with great effort. In some societies reshaping the human skull has been seen as an ideal of beauty, while it may also have acted as a marker of status, nobility, or affiliation to a certain class or group.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F2.large.jpg
Fig. 2.Procrustes-transformed PCA of ancient samples using pseudohaploid calls based on off-target reads using an imputed POPRES modern reference dataset. Blue, green, and red male or female symbols are ancient Bavarian individuals with normal, intermediate, and elongated skulls, respectively. Orange circles are Anglo-Saxon era individuals. Large circles are medians for regions, dots are individuals. CE, central Europe; EE, eastern Europe; NE, northern Europe; NEE, northeastern Europe; NEW, northwestern Europe; SE, southern Europe; SEE, southeast Europe; WE, western Europe. Percentage of variation explained by PCs 1 and 2 for modern populations only is 0.25% and 0.15%.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F3.large.jpg
Fig. 3.
Supervised model-based clustering ADMIXTURE analysis for ancient samples based on phased haplotypes for individual 1,000 bp loci from the 5-Mb neutralome. Analysis is based on the best of 100 runs for K = 8, but NC_EUR is the ancestry summed across 1000 Genomes CEU, 1000 Genomes GBR, and GoNL populations (i.e., it represents a northern/central European ancestry). Blue, green, and red male or female symbols are ancient Bavarian individuals with normal, intermediate, and elongated skulls, respectively.

A population assignment analysis (PAA) at the level of individual modern nation states suggested greatest genetic similarity of these normal-skulled individuals with modern Germans, consistent with their sampling location (Fig. 4 A and B (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F4) and SI Appendix, Table S35 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)). The only exceptions to this general pattern of northern/central European ancestry were the two women, STR_300 and STR_502, which were of a more southern ancestry associated with present day Greece and Turkey, respectively (SI Appendix, Fig. S29 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)).

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F4.large.jpg

Fig. 4.
Geographic distribution of population assignment analysis (PAA) results on pseudohaploid calls from off-target reads summed across individuals for (A) all Bavarian males, (B) all Bavarian females with normal skulls, (C) all Bavarian females
with elongated skulls, and (D) KER_1 and VIM_2.

A much more diverse ancestry was observed among the females with elongated skulls, as demonstrated by a significantly greater group-based FIS (SI Appendix, Fig. S35 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)). All these females had varying amounts of genetic ancestry found today predominantly in southern European countries [as seen by the varying amounts of ancestry inferred by model-based clustering that is representative of a sample from modern Tuscany, Italy (TSI), Fig. 3 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F3)], and while the majority of samples were found to be closest to modern southeastern Europeans (Bulgaria and Romania, Fig. 4C (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F4)), at least one individual, AED_1108, appeared to possess ∼20% East Asian ancestry (Fig. 3 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F3)), which was also evident from the high number of haplotypes within the 5-Mb neutralome that were private to modern East Asian 1000 Genomes individuals (EAS), while also demonstrating an overall ancestry profile consistent with Central Asian populations (SI Appendix, Fig. S33 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)). No modern European individual from the Simons Genome Diversity Panel (SGDP) (11 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#ref-11)) showed any evidence of significant East Asian ancestry except one Hungarian individual with less than 5%. A higher amount of East Asian ancestry was inferred for AED_1108 than all modern Caucasus and Middle Eastern individuals, and 28 of 33 South Asian individuals.

See full article in the link below:
https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494

Regio X
04-04-19, 20:00
Deleted by poster

Angela
04-04-19, 20:16
Europe experienced a profound cultural transformation between Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages that laid the foundations of the modern political, social, and religious landscape. During this period, colloquially known as the “Migration Period,” the Roman Empire gradually dissolved, with 5th and 6th century historiographers and contemporary witnesses describing the formation and migration of numerous Germanic peoples, such as the Goths, Alamanni, Gepids, and Longobards. However, the genetic and social composition of groups involved and the exact nature of these “migrations” are unclear and have been a subject of substantial historical and archaeological debate (1 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#ref-1)).
In the mid 6th century AD, the historiographer Jordanes and the poet and hagiographer Venantius Fortunatus provide the first mention of a group known as the Baiuvarii that resided in modern day Bavaria. It is likely that this group had already started to form in the 5th century AD, and that it emanated from a combination of the romanized local population of the border province of the former Roman Empire and immigrants from north of the Danube (2 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#ref-2)). While the Baiuvarii are less well known than some other contemporary groups, an interesting archaeological feature in Bavaria from this period is the presence of skeletons with artificially deformed or elongated skulls (Fig. 1A (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F1)).
https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F1.medium.gif
Artificial cranial deformation (ACD), which is only possible during early childhood, is a deliberate and permanent shaping of the head performed with great effort. In some societies reshaping the human skull has been seen as an ideal of beauty, while it may also have acted as a marker of status, nobility, or affiliation to a certain class or group.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F2.large.jpg
Fig. 2.Procrustes-transformed PCA of ancient samples using pseudohaploid calls based on off-target reads using an imputed POPRES modern reference dataset. Blue, green, and red male or female symbols are ancient Bavarian individuals with normal, intermediate, and elongated skulls, respectively. Orange circles are Anglo-Saxon era individuals. Large circles are medians for regions, dots are individuals. CE, central Europe; EE, eastern Europe; NE, northern Europe; NEE, northeastern Europe; NEW, northwestern Europe; SE, southern Europe; SEE, southeast Europe; WE, western Europe. Percentage of variation explained by PCs 1 and 2 for modern populations only is 0.25% and 0.15%.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F3.large.jpg
Fig. 3.
Supervised model-based clustering ADMIXTURE analysis for ancient samples based on phased haplotypes for individual 1,000 bp loci from the 5-Mb neutralome. Analysis is based on the best of 100 runs for K = 8, but NC_EUR is the ancestry summed across 1000 Genomes CEU, 1000 Genomes GBR, and GoNL populations (i.e., it represents a northern/central European ancestry). Blue, green, and red male or female symbols are ancient Bavarian individuals with normal, intermediate, and elongated skulls, respectively.

A population assignment analysis (PAA) at the level of individual modern nation states suggested greatest genetic similarity of these normal-skulled individuals with modern Germans, consistent with their sampling location (Fig. 4 A and B (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F4) and SI Appendix, Table S35 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)). The only exceptions to this general pattern of northern/central European ancestry were the two women, STR_300 and STR_502, which were of a more southern ancestry associated with present day Greece and Turkey, respectively (SI Appendix, Fig. S29 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)).

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/115/13/3494/F4.large.jpg

Fig. 4.
Geographic distribution of population assignment analysis (PAA) results on pseudohaploid calls from off-target reads summed across individuals for (A) all Bavarian males, (B) all Bavarian females with normal skulls, (C) all Bavarian females
with elongated skulls, and (D) KER_1 and VIM_2.

A much more diverse ancestry was observed among the females with elongated skulls, as demonstrated by a significantly greater group-based FIS (SI Appendix, Fig. S35 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)). All these females had varying amounts of genetic ancestry found today predominantly in southern European countries [as seen by the varying amounts of ancestry inferred by model-based clustering that is representative of a sample from modern Tuscany, Italy (TSI), Fig. 3 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F3)], and while the majority of samples were found to be closest to modern southeastern Europeans (Bulgaria and Romania, Fig. 4C (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F4)), at least one individual, AED_1108, appeared to possess ∼20% East Asian ancestry (Fig. 3 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#F3)), which was also evident from the high number of haplotypes within the 5-Mb neutralome that were private to modern East Asian 1000 Genomes individuals (EAS), while also demonstrating an overall ancestry profile consistent with Central Asian populations (SI Appendix, Fig. S33 (http://www.pnas.org/lookup/suppl/doi:10.1073/pnas.1719880115/-/DCSupplemental)). No modern European individual from the Simons Genome Diversity Panel (SGDP) (11 (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494#ref-11)) showed any evidence of significant East Asian ancestry except one Hungarian individual with less than 5%. A higher amount of East Asian ancestry was inferred for AED_1108 than all modern Caucasus and Middle Eastern individuals, and 28 of 33 South Asian individuals.

See full article in the link below:
https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3494


Thanks so much, Duarte. :) I kept meaning to look it up but didn't get to it.

My 70 sample is the NW sample. Seems about 2/3 IBS Iberian and 1/3 Tuscan in make up. Makes sense. In real life add about 20 points more of Tuscan and you get me. :)

Actually, in calculators where there are no northern Italian or Tuscan samples I come out Bulgarian. :)

Poor women. What torture.

halfalp
04-04-19, 20:22
Where is this feature coming from? Gedmatch or something else?

Jovialis
04-04-19, 20:34
That's right. I have both that and the newer one. Not a lot of difference, but some.

I trust the 23andme results.

https://i.imgur.com/DEyHRJt.png

Indeed,

These are the results from my V 5 23andme Raw data. The difference is nearly indistinguishable from the combined raw data result.

Jovialis
04-04-19, 20:39
Where is this feature coming from? Gedmatch or something else?

You have to input your Eurogenes K36 results into this website:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

halfalp
04-04-19, 20:58
Thanks Jovialis!

I do i upload the results from Imgur to Eupedia? ( i'm new into all this... ) And alternatively, how can i keep the dimensions of the original picture instead of minimize?

Duarte
04-04-19, 21:01
@ Angela.
Yes Angela. Poor women. What suffering to have to go through it in the name of a cultural standard of beauty and social status. It reminded me of the women giraffes of Thailand who lengthen their necks artificially, always periodically placing an extra ring between the rings that they wear their whole lives around their necks.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BNePchdUmt0/TqCxN9cZGEI/AAAAAAAAPKc/YuRhbbcoG5M/s1600/girafa_21.jpg


@ halfalp
Transcribe your results GEDmatch Eurogenes K36 using the follwing link, as said Jovialis in the reply above:
http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

Jovialis
04-04-19, 21:03
Thanks Jovialis!

I do i upload the results from Imgur to Eupedia? ( i'm new into all this... )

You're welcome,

I'd say that Imgur is ideal, because sometimes uploaded attachments do not function properly. You would need to upload the image on to your Imgur account, and copy and paste the BCCode text for the image into the body of your post.

halfalp
04-04-19, 21:05
https://i.imgur.com/ZCrpyPy.png
https://i.imgur.com/061IU9r.png
https://i.imgur.com/F6qVhZ2.png
(http://https://i.imgur.com/ZCrpyPy.png)

Duarte
04-04-19, 21:09
Thanks Jovialis!

I do i upload the results from Imgur to Eupedia? ( i'm new into all this... ) And alternatively, how can i keep the dimensions of the original picture instead of minimize?

Yes. After displaying the results you have to make one (or more than one) screenshot and send the images saved on your Pc or Tablet to Imgur and get an image link for later publication in the Eupedia forum.
Note: Uncheck the "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" option that appear automatically selected in the Eupedia image window :)

halfalp
04-04-19, 21:11
What i deduce from my results is that i look high in CHG ancestry no? Btw, thanks for the hands up Duarte and Jovialis. :)

Note: That's weird how much El Miron i have, more than Duarte and Carlos wich are Iberians.

Salento
04-04-19, 22:03
@Jovialis
I edited my old post with the new results matching your combined raw-data. :)

The difference is only one or two points here and there.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38180-Similarity-rate-with-different-ancient-genomes?p=571576&viewfull=1#post571576

Angela
04-04-19, 22:31
@ Angela.
Yes Angela. Poor women. What suffering to have to go through it in the name of a cultural standard of beauty and social status. It reminded me of the women giraffes of Thailand who lengthen their necks artificially, always periodically placing an extra ring between the rings that they wear their whole lives around their necks.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BNePchdUmt0/TqCxN9cZGEI/AAAAAAAAPKc/YuRhbbcoG5M/s1600/girafa_21.jpg


@ halfalp
Transcribe your results GEDmatch Eurogenes K36 using the follwing link, as said Jovialis in the reply above:
http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

I don't know if the "lotus feet" of China was worse. Apparently, the pain was excruciating for years, and the feet often atrophied and rotted. Still, could the head deformation thing make them retarded?

What a choice! :(

Angela
04-04-19, 22:51
Nice! It really is fascinating! They should re-make Troy starring us :grin:

From right near where some of my husband's ancestors come from: Bronzi di Riace.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/af/0c/7c/af0c7ca812730fd6b28f735164e9ac4f.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000sxvnL8LNsQc/s/700/g=G0000XNbq4g.KLMw/MUS8876-51-Greek-Riace-Bronzes-Statue.jpg

Jovialis
04-04-19, 23:02
From right near where some of my husband's ancestors come from: Bronzi di Riace.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/af/0c/7c/af0c7ca812730fd6b28f735164e9ac4f.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000sxvnL8LNsQc/s/700/g=G0000XNbq4g.KLMw/MUS8876-51-Greek-Riace-Bronzes-Statue.jpg

Btw, I see I'm at 74, so he is now the new King :)

davef
04-04-19, 23:03
@ Angela.
Yes Angela. Poor women. What suffering to have to go through it in the name of a cultural standard of beauty and social status. It reminded me of the women giraffes of Thailand who lengthen their necks artificially, always periodically placing an extra ring between the rings that they wear their whole lives around their necks.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BNePchdUmt0/TqCxN9cZGEI/AAAAAAAAPKc/YuRhbbcoG5M/s1600/girafa_21.jpg


@ halfalp
Transcribe your results GEDmatch Eurogenes K36 using the follwing link, as said Jovialis in the reply above:
http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm
Im baffled that anyone would find a woman with the deformations found in those Bavarians attractive. I know everyone has their own standards but I think there's a limit. Also as Angela pointed out, the deformities might've impacted their intellectual capacity, which would've rendered them even less attractive

Jovialis
04-04-19, 23:04
@Jovialis
I edited my old post with the new results matching your combined raw-data. :)

The difference is only one or two points here and there.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38180-Similarity-rate-with-different-ancient-genomes?p=571576&viewfull=1#post571576

I see we also get fairly close to the one Ostrogoth KE1 sample. He must have been Southern European.

brick
04-04-19, 23:33
Nice. :)

But not sure he was from France or Spain. Maybe. However, his autosomal makeup resembles "modern" (!) North Spanish's and South French's. I'm not sure North Italians were the same those days, considering there were movements in Europe since 300 AD. We don't know either how people of Raeti stock looked like, for example, and apparently there were Raetian-speaking people in Northeastern Italy till ~3rd century AD. Raeti were related to Etruscans supposedly, and if that famous and controversial PCA is correct, Etruscans wouldn't be that different from modern Iberians.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1rfyRUeQKSE/VUp1FtC48DI/AAAAAAAAKE0/aprJv89-94k/s1600/etruscans.jpg

Indeed, the Roman Soldier belonged to Y haplogroup G-L42, typical of the Alps and surroundings. Switzerland, North Italy, SW Germany, Tyrol...
FN2 shares a common patrilineal ancestor from 500 BC with a Swedish, a German and a South Italian.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z40854/


I found this in blog comments and I think it's interesting.

How the PCA of the Etruscans can be interpreted compared to Raveane et al. 2018 preprint.

Etruscans seem North Italian-like and falling roughly into the NItaly clusters.


https://i.imgur.com/DNWHq3y.jpg

td120
04-04-19, 23:36
A Bulgarian result:

https://i.imgur.com/sECzdbB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lLFBfaC.jpg

Duarte
05-04-19, 00:14
Im baffled that anyone would find a woman with the deformations found in those Bavarians attractive. I know everyone has their own standards but I think there's a limit. Also as Angela pointed out, the deformities might've impacted their intellectual capacity, which would've rendered them even less attractive

Hi davef,
I agree with you that, from the vision of the ideal of feminine beauty that we have today in the twenty-first century these women would look terribly ugly and probably retarded mentally. But we do not know much about the culture of these medieval Bavarians, other than the fact that the cranial deformation of women should done represented some kind of social differentiation for them, otherwise this practice would not make sense and the deformed skulls would not have been found. I remember now that some tabloid sites even went so far as to say that they were extra-terrestrial skulls. Well, I do not know this ancient culture and I can only repeat what the authors of the article I transcribed said:
”In some societies reshaping the human skull has been seen as an ideal of beauty, while it may also have acted as a marker of status, nobility, or affiliation to a certain class or group”.
Big hug :)

davef
05-04-19, 00:20
Hi davef,
I agree with you that, from the vision of the ideal of feminine beauty that we have today in the twenty-first century these women would look terribly ugly and probably retarded mentally. But we do not know much about the culture of these medieval Bavarians, other than the fact that the cranial deformation of women should done represented some kind of social differentiation for them, otherwise this practice would not make sense and the deformed skulls would not have been found. I remember now that some tabloid sites even went so far as to say that they were extra-terrestrial skulls. Well, I do not know this ancient culture and I can only repeat what the authors of the article I transcribed said:
”In some societies reshaping the human skull has been seen as an ideal of beauty, while it may also have acted as a marker of status, nobility, or affiliation to a certain class or group”.
Big hug :)
Thank you! Yes it may have been a status symbol of sorts but it's so mysterious how it became that way

xri34
05-04-19, 02:07
Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.94


Eurogenes V2 K15 Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Central_Greek @ 5.529039


Dodecad K12b Oracle
# Population (source) Distance
1 C_Italian (Dodecad) 6.78


Dodecad K12b Oracle-4
Using 1 population approximation:
1 C_Italian_Dodecad @ 7.297379

If there was a population from my specific area in these calculators, it would be the closest match. Pugliese are between Central Italy, Central Greece, and other Southern Italians. They're all pretty close to each other nonetheless.

Actually you can check at K36 genetic similarity map your similarity with puglia.

Salento
05-04-19, 02:26
Dear friend Carlos.

It seems that the Roman soldier was really Iberian. See these two posts extracted from BLOG linked below:
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/03/first-real-foray-into-migration-period.html?m=1

POST 1:
---Germany_Roman:FN_2

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE”
Spanish_Baleares / Spanish_Cataluna
2.403037 / 2.657032
Spanish_Murcia / Spanish_Cantabria
2.766374 / 2.908718
Spanish_Andalucia / Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
2.940393 / 3.080841
Hungary_BA / Spanish_Aragon
3.084510 / 3.128334

POST 2:
The Roman soldier was probably from Aquitaine in South France/North Spain. He clusters with modern Basque & south French.


300 AD Germany (Roman Soldier) FN2

GedMatch ID: Z061309

Salento
05-04-19, 03:20
Actually you can check at K36 genetic similarity map your similarity with puglia.

Look at how the LACK of Data from Puglia and NO Abruzzo on the Map confuses “K36 genetic similarity”.
two Max 80 in Rome & Greek Islands.
Questionable Results imo.

It looks like it is using Geographic Coordinates in relation with its INCOMPLETE Genetic Data, I should be in Puglia, located in the middle of the 2 Reds.

https://i.imgur.com/dg9DFqc.jpg

on the mapping with K15 I end up in the middle of the Ocean. (I guess that’s where Atlantis used to be) lol

Carlos
05-04-19, 04:42
Por Salento:
300 dC Alemania (Soldado romano) FN2
GedMatch ID: Z061309

He comparado el kit Z061309 con mi propio kit y he obtenido estos resultados al elegir las calculadoras al azar.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vG-J2k6cE1A/XKbB2ewDNlI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/XsINNK9TuOUX4wj3DLsPIbk2yiu2OxjBACLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566HUNTERFARMER.jpeg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vG-J2k6cE1A/XKbB2ewDNlI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/XsINNK9TuOUX4wj3DLsPIbk2yiu2OxjBACLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566HUNTERFARMER.jpeg (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vG-J2k6cE1A/XKbB2ewDNlI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/XsINNK9TuOUX4wj3DLsPIbk2yiu2OxjBACLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566HUNTERFARMER.jpeg)
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qTV4NHZnHs/XKbB74fTZ9I/AAAAAAAAARA/xBNWZBqatB4ZVER57nTy0qrnCe42nEEKgCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566WORLD.jpeg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qTV4NHZnHs/XKbB74fTZ9I/AAAAAAAAARA/xBNWZBqatB4ZVER57nTy0qrnCe42nEEKgCLcBGAs/s1600 /Z061309_EB4566WORLD.jpeg (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qTV4NHZnHs/XKbB74fTZ9I/AAAAAAAAARA/xBNWZBqatB4ZVER57nTy0qrnCe42nEEKgCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566WORLD.jpeg)https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Jdl5NigBvHI/XKbB_poJNdI/AAAAAAAAalle / (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Jdl5NigBvHI/XKbB_poJNdI/AAAAAAAAARE/vBn7Ao3xbOcqmJOZqW5wANROKoCNh-5nQCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566k15.jpeg)Bufas / vBn7A las partes (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qTV4NHZnHs/XKbB74fTZ9I/AAAAAAAAARA/xBNWZBqatB4ZVER57nTy0qrnCe42nEEKgCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566WORLD.jpeg)
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Jdl5NigBvHI/XKbB_poJNdI/AAAAAAAAARE/vBn7Ao3xbOcqmJOZqW5wANROKoCNh-5nQCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566k15.jpeg

davef
05-04-19, 07:14
Look at how the LACK of Data from Puglia and NO Abruzzo on the Map confuses “K36 genetic similarity”.
two Max 80 in Rome & Greek Islands.
Questionable Results imo.

It looks like it is using Geographic Coordinates in relation with its INCOMPLETE Genetic Data, I should be in Puglia, located in the middle of the 2 Reds.

https://i.imgur.com/dg9DFqc.jpg

on the mapping with K15 I end up in the middle of the Ocean. (I guess that’s where Atlantis used to be) lol
Yes, this tool isn't all that accurate but it's good fun and not something to take literally. You're more than 79 percent Apulian! Add 21 percent to get a more realistic score!

halfalp
05-04-19, 08:47
It's funny how most of you ethnic Italians seems to have more match with Neolithic Europe, Mediterranean Metal Ages and Mediterranea in general. While i have huge matches with something Bell Beaker ancestry. But on the K36, my biggest score of like 18.something is Italy. How's that translating in real hypothesis?

xri34
05-04-19, 12:53
Look at how the LACK of Data from Puglia and NO Abruzzo on the Map confuses “K36 genetic similarity”.
two Max 80 in Rome & Greek Islands.
Questionable Results imo.

It looks like it is using Geographic Coordinates in relation with its INCOMPLETE Genetic Data, I should be in Puglia, located in the middle of the 2 Reds.

https://i.imgur.com/dg9DFqc.jpg

on the mapping with K15 I end up in the middle of the Ocean. (I guess that’s where Atlantis used to be) lol
Did you use 23andme V5 raw data?

Regio X
05-04-19, 13:42
Yes, I was thinking that too. Perhaps he was from here:
https://www.shorthistory.org/images/Transalpine-Cisalpine-Gaul-and-Illyricum.jpg
At any rate, my similarity to him is 67%. My only higher one is that "Bavarian" woman from 500 AD. at 70%. Apparently, she was Southern European, but not of the particularly "eastern" variety. I don't know. Maybe northern Balkans like?I guess so.

Mine are not that different from yours.

FTDNA & 23andMe v4

https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/FTDNA_zps215d8oh2.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/FTDNA_zps215d8oh2.jpg.html)

Salento
05-04-19, 13:54
Did you use 23andme V5 raw data?

That was a combined data 23 included, without AncestryDNA.

But with AncestryDna by itself I get the same results.

The point is: Abruzzo is missing from the Map, and they need more Data from Puglia in most calculators.


23 v5:

https://i.imgur.com/dNi4lqX.jpg


https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34142-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps?p=571524&viewfull=1#post571524 (https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34142-Tool-for-K36-your-similarities-rates-on-maps?p=571524&viewfull=1#post571524)

Jovialis
05-04-19, 13:54
https://i.imgur.com/kM6X6Qe.png

This is my similarity map compared to the Ancient genome chart. Both using 23andme data V5

https://i.imgur.com/DEyHRJt.png

Regio X
05-04-19, 13:59
I guess so.

Mine are not that different from yours.

FTDNA & 23andMe v4

https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/FTDNA_zps215d8oh2.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/FTDNA_zps215d8oh2.jpg.html)https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/23andMe_zpsntgar28o.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/23andMe_zpsntgar28o.jpg.html)

https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/F23andMe_zpscinzmguw.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/F23andMe_zpscinzmguw.jpg.html)

https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/M23andMe_zpsi4xak61l.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/M23andMe_zpsi4xak61l.jpg.html)

Angela
05-04-19, 14:24
https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/23andMe_zpsntgar28o.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/23andMe_zpsntgar28o.jpg.html)

https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/F23andMe_zpscinzmguw.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/F23andMe_zpscinzmguw.jpg.html)

https://oi38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/M23andMe_zpsi4xak61l.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/M23andMe_zpsi4xak61l.jpg.html)

We're quite close on a lot of them, the more "Neolithic" related ones, but you have higher scores on Yamnaya type, Northern, and Northwestern scores, which makes sense since I'm half Tuscan like. The Italian cline is consistent. :)

What doesn't make sense to me is that you have higher scores in some things than either of your parents.

Regio X
05-04-19, 14:40
We're quite close on a lot of them, the more "Neolithic" related ones, but you have higher scores on Yamnaya type, Northern, and Northwestern scores, which makes sense since I'm half Tuscan like. The Italian cline is consistent. :)

What doesn't make sense to me is that you have higher scores in some things than either of your parents.Yep. Based on Geneplaza, I'd risk to say it's an effect mainly of our little extra WHG.

Anyway I confess I couldn't look closer to my own results. Time is short, and the smartphone doesn't help. :) Can you please provide examples of these higher scores?

Duarte
05-04-19, 15:11
By Salento:
300 AD Germany (Roman Soldier) FN2
GedMatch ID: Z061309

I have compared the Z061309 kit with my own kit and I have obtained these results by choosing the calculators at random.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vG-J2k6cE1A/XKbB2ewDNlI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/XsINNK9TuOUX4wj3DLsPIbk2yiu2OxjBACLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566HUNTERFARMER.jpeg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vG-J2k6cE1A/XKbB2ewDNlI/AAAAAAAAAQ8/XsINNK9TuOUX4wj3DLsPIbk2yiu2OxjBACLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566HUNTERFARMER.jpeg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qTV4NHZnHs/XKbB74fTZ9I/AAAAAAAAARA/xBNWZBqatB4ZVER57nTy0qrnCe42nEEKgCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566WORLD.jpeg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qTV4NHZnHs/XKbB74fTZ9I/AAAAAAAAARA/xBNWZBqatB4ZVER57nTy0qrnCe42nEEKgCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566WORLD.jpeg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Jdl5NigBvHI/XKbB_poJNdI/AAAAAAAAARE/vBn7Ao3xbOcqmJOZqW5wANROKoCNh-5nQCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566k15.jpeg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Jdl5NigBvHI/XKbB_poJNdI/AAAAAAAAARE/vBn7Ao3xbOcqmJOZqW5wANROKoCNh-5nQCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_EB4566k15.jpeg

Carlos. This is my comparsion with the same calculators that you used, except Eurogenes K13 :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bQi88edue38RiXaysSCNMTEbMUL_lyoseaA7gZb5d7DZrMnb2X aHSgtM6CGqspV1hTgBDF98NlpRjmpCL-cH8fneNKdhln-QJ_kQSZTzGst-0lR723JLcDiW23q6P0g-XRP2zBvqno8uIHDxa2HXuAcPQa7Hxnua3XR6d_yboRripvISq1 C1xpyZUaD2He0xE8Fhwn4RCX2BeHINCnBeYMMBfiWT6-ZRqW6ZrcGc8oiZ0-sJZuB5UUsSguwVH-UhRFvsm3tjQ5wtKhsuul-9dcJLcz-u30keFi3Q1IcBUjCqqA-DiC1_MCe5m5z_7sJxfhnX9TFms1NGpTfcxXnzj1wBMw7PnIh1B kcMti3469salIgcirgr-_GLkTQylOrIknVjKS-DIiqlDTPHw0JOVxboKQm99Ev0NBrj9H8W2x5m0dK4kzDcA5BOG QdUmGPRuhOO_p7hrI1_FdwV_8bDdraTziJiMh-NelyGQdFUAHFvKaD87-LPfsUcHyB8aC3NsOMT9G_zMs3Abq0kNXaXbFeclUgUv_9pEViU zaX4BlvtN2gQwmWfHlEM-w7AfcA6yeJxPO-ILokXXJNVsq7Aw5XUKxzUH0WDsXFUupYyv8MulWZ-fiZ6W62cm9uMtv2NCGZpIXAnoOCdWMTy-ftNVPtRIbUVme4=w840-h520-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ozOWitPARBCf8VMRUrE9BLoIGndqbnthpUvJDgCWNdQ3gkEmFa _650mmE-osBTn4wN1dnBWh3J3iNUWUklvHzBtV40u6n_OHftpY53LrTaJI 4Amm-xFW-WapCKlx2v7Dh5OYkkg1O6rANig01SjJ4mmFN5a2pubxHbIqvN6 l0oHz-atcb9E-dvHD6PH23ALFopKkeOGWqmFX9W3hYfZ5ACytfHd3f-FzMPws3CAWSQg33NUpA2sEiiuoqUm-hHmO9MKyNrzCHqj3JDhIEpOc0kd3yIhRX7dMTkO8ECSSy4TlfR JeZaIiPg51rEqCRC6Az6XqD9KayqyPS093agz4RmtNu_YufIbh 3aTYgmJCDNEhmtY_2ToUL8DJySK0LGWeOjz1l8DsT0qtB52QtL WqSKjTXqth2v5cOrJX6BDsBh9riRNwrYJnMHcpN42W2ZmwSCTt f-RkekhfneOqnuapBA5iQAY56MXkzj4_2qDKTHsJo6-JEh24fnxazgfG30fTZfi00MBuEIADcMwNpPQAv82pcqMsFm4TA b4xyXklFGJL7sbRSNriT6f21cVOWlCe4p0XDebANnfyP2kv0ku DrAYFDtPxjcZ7u_xPgChwakof-RN--Ii07ANP03LzvY6Ssi2jVnmyyF8rzQzjX-GHhrzTLr763uM=w844-h523-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dWZAuSkWTZ6rlbjdJmIK9wrShevvPX-ElQ_pD5rteNNdW_IgNWwwIVZn8K4aDS9iJdlBrQg0mYNrY3yIo vFAsC8TwkHQYScLf5xMSps_9nAvWZOys3Zu1nvlOkMzR_Og8tJ 7XWXfZDXSuKcAkrxc4J8n0O1AiO5SWTeoE40m3b6_b_H-FfcKElf6bxMiNK_V8_aZcYNU7JdFe9B-tkyEWATLU855T9w3uAIE9yoEboSyujVXilNuRPcleNIDU71NDu bvvq9pvntJmbbW9J4wbDJPBvsFtoHjKsEDZvqS-zti33vOmpDygSkuT4itgARLbin1K9dWM-FVY89lWVNI0S3dANARjcg6uXjQL0odLuFe8E-NiaDgTIJYwYD3YEiDcm-a-VYqrGPaTCa5xfP9OzpfFyVcKBP6-qKxoafi2-q-urYOJXJkF0N2HuKIjRNklzuLd8D3cRulAmjHiUI-vFXjdw7OvshoOga84bW3rJzVvOeaymEJ0LEgRaTVOhJofWmrhX w4CF-NrCQVkf4XU266pmoWacKZ8zqsQwg8OxLSzgcuSLX8x3NZZ1N-PbN8Ww78st-oKcS6sCj9GjWqpcrJ0UXXk6DZ42qTaey7qL1YkUUVi21juzYxP cXtHTJvwpzx_yuhpK1eIkN281SWHhb2trrbxS4=w843-h530-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Xv_rp7CifHbNovFV8NxBy_5zp1NrGzxQdyq1Iff_dH814yJ85G xbNfFHQOYG4Vfhem1RsFDkdh90TToB8i8mxZr8bBWaUW_nbUWA GY9Nd3frIwUYRFmfpwd345hU1tNfsl1uTwZDGaUF9bMng9JIu2 W2vraY5dnCfLJYxD-Zmj5p3_W5m8AZonicntUS0ngSlljK7IBiL1UhHRXfyzjdJyNbw Ckj97CdMXU1LLeyv-b67iYBeFb7miLtctd5UHpCG2PLPtcakp1a82k9GYtZgH7zJ2yG qvvYJvpLFUe_U-mzD7zdgY8H7PFRmSSw_PvM3NnUHfrt69QfdKvnsHFlntFOAUPh ZMvzG9QX1GhJaqo-nIjOs_hZAPdwqje3DPTN6O0jEisASce1JQMfiVvi5BD_upgeFU _szwzS1rT6tJNGPFlVlfu7RbtIKvESI7c9YXZfxwURRPqVYNVg u7gCYZxv33f_Xf1D-ItslfYWyIlpe8HPFNM5JDej-mNaylb4LkAkYrtEmaMmaCGAjg3cXkijmGAh4nS8U93i4ACy_VY X_zK_UeCYxVd9mAWfE4OMcr2ojNTZZBjAeJ_tbw-OrHilC-CyIUfT45PotejbFdU1oR6lp6OR4jY0kE2_Rl6mmQGD5jVZ1-PLxw6cxKRxeVZT2GrhvYE=w841-h524-no

Angela
05-04-19, 15:14
Yep. Based on Geneplaza, I'd risk to say it's an effect mainly of our little extra WHG.

Anyway I confess I couldn't look closer to my own results. Time is short, and the smartphone doesn't help. :) Can you please provide examples of these higher scores?

Here's 5: You/Me

Yamnaya Potapovka: 45/34
Denmark Rise 61 : 53/41
Poland: 54/40

Gladiator 18: 56/49
Sintashta Rise 392: 41/29

Salento
05-04-19, 15:17
It's funny how most of you ethnic Italians seems to have more match with Neolithic Europe, Mediterranean Metal Ages and Mediterranea in general. While i have huge matches with something Bell Beaker ancestry. But on the K36, my biggest score of like 18.something is Italy. How's that translating in real hypothesis?

There are 2 results for Switzerland, What's your score in both?
I get a difference of 17 points between the two:
66 - 49

http://i.imgur.com/WWhGpQs.jpg

Carlos
05-04-19, 15:31
Very similar Duarte. We have found that relative who went to war and never heard from him and thousands of years later we have received news, he died in distant lands. Rest in peace.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s2POQJ7RsxQ/XKdblZXLwWI/AAAAAAAAASc/wLXYzUtgb2Aoh8YPoaPyd6GukluFUah8QCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_SQ3125703_EB4566BERINGIAN.gif
I have done this oldest check.

Jovialis
05-04-19, 15:39
We're quite close on a lot of them, the more "Neolithic" related ones, but you have higher scores on Yamnaya type, Northern, and Northwestern scores, which makes sense since I'm half Tuscan like. The Italian cline is consistent. :)

What doesn't make sense to me is that you have higher scores in some things than either of your parents.

I think the differences that are between raw data are sometimes elevated because the kind of SNPs they're genotyping happens to be detected more frequently than others. Which is why I think there are the subtle differences when the SNP count is elevated. Though I've observed that they are very minor. Which means they do have the technology to read a lot out of a fewer targeted ones, and be highly accurate.

Nevertheless, I sort of have a hobby goal to combine the raw data files from all of the compatible versions, for DNAkit studio. Because for the ancient samples, many of them on GEDMatch are about over 160k snps that are readable for Dodecad K12b. Mine is currently at 155K I recall. I only have two other tests I haven't done, that are compatible with DNAkit Studio, which should put me at that 160k mark. They're FTDNA, and MyHeritage, which I care very little for. But I'm interested in the raw data they can provide. I don't know much about FTDNA to have an opinion, but I do think MyHeritage is a terrible test. However, I'm not willing to spend money on that, so I'm just waiting till I get enough amazon gift card points, and look for a sale. I know the results will be show an extremely marginal change, but I think it would be fun to see nonetheless.

Angela
05-04-19, 15:41
There are 2 results for Switzerland, What's your score in both?
I get a difference of 17 points between the two:
66 - 49

http://i.imgur.com/WWhGpQs.jpg

The 66 is probably the Ticino, whose people are pretty much Lombards. The 49 is German speaking Switzerland.

Salento
05-04-19, 15:47
Very similar Duarte. We have found that relative who went to war and never heard from him and thousands of years later we have received news, he died in distant lands. Rest in peace.

Unless he decided to stay in Germany.
“Some” say that Iberian Women are very possessive. lol

https://i.imgur.com/11ewEsb.jpg

Jovialis
05-04-19, 16:01
https://i.imgur.com/eYc1EoU.png

This my map and ancient genome chart using the combined raw data files.

https://i.imgur.com/mPRwQ7x.png

Salento
05-04-19, 16:07
The 66 is probably the Ticino, whose people are pretty much Lombards. The 49 is German speaking Switzerland.

Thanks Angela, (I’ve run out of votes).

Duarte
05-04-19, 16:34
Unless he decided to stay in Germany.
“Some” say that Iberian Women are very possessive. lol

https://i.imgur.com/11ewEsb.jpg

LOL. Yes, they may be very possessive. But I think that Lady Cheddary, an ancient and traditional English lady, was more possessive :))

Regio X
05-04-19, 16:59
Here's 5: You/Me
Yamnaya Potapovka: 45/34
Denmark Rise 61 : 53/41
Poland: 54/40
Gladiator 18: 56/49
Sintashta Rise 392: 41/29I was referring to higher scores compared to my parents. I should have been more specific. My bad.
Well, I think it's not odd to have higher -
or lower - scores than both. It would be strange having more than the sum of both, yes, or having too few - depending on how much they get, of course.

Carlos
05-04-19, 19:33
Unless he decided to stay in Germany.
“Some” say that Iberian Women are very possessive. lol

https://i.imgur.com/11ewEsb.jpg

The iberians womans only?

He stayed and then came back somehow. The Iberians take very badly live away from Iberia, the Galicians call it "morriña" Feel sadness or grief that is felt to be away from the homeland or the people or places you love, in this inter-millennial case.

halfalp
05-04-19, 19:44
There are 2 results for Switzerland, What's your score in both?
I get a difference of 17 points between the two:
66 - 49

http://i.imgur.com/WWhGpQs.jpg

I dont know where your map is going from and how to implemente my results in them, can you help me?

Joey37
05-04-19, 20:13
10871 10869

Joey37
05-04-19, 20:17
Also there was another tool of 'Where your ancestors were living 10,000 years ago', and also 4,500 years ago, the last one was really neat, giving me 60% Indo-European invader, 25% Neolithic farmer, 10% Anatolian Copper Age migrant, and 5% Hunter-gatherer

davef
05-04-19, 20:22
Also there was another tool of 'Where your ancestors were living 10,000 years ago', and also 4,500 years ago, the last one was really neat, giving me 60% Indo-European invader, 25% Neolithic farmer, 10% Anatolian Copper Age migrant, and 5% Hunter-gatherer

Wow, that much steppe?

Salento
05-04-19, 20:32
I dont know where your map is going from and how to implemente my results in them, can you help me?

if you’re on GedMatch and uploaded your RawData:

https://genesis.gedmatch.com/ (https://genesis.gedmatch.com/login1.php)

> Admixture (heritage) > Select > Eurogenes > input your Kit Ninber > Select Eurogenes K36 > continue

copy your Results.

Then go to:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

input your previous results and then press “Valider” .

Duarte
05-04-19, 21:23
My match.
Similarity rate with different populations GEDmatch Eurogenes 36 - modern map.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/j8iUSe8PXQ2pkq2jm_mLGe2-8J2XRWmMLkItcRUKlXoKn8Wa8r85eMPqhl_gzfZrcQ7xWjrBW7 itWxIWpe-_x5HF8tYEFYzEcMJ1Kl9tvCmXvHlPA4qQHbZDhsXV9Rsz0tT5Y FZv_p0yhJwUy-drAeIeHHVE9nibx3TWuAcxAS5msAh1BPOxhPvsJ_lYowM1upGw AsU0T7TQlbz3boTFrJNK3oV-nk3DzNT0fnn4xILwnZVLFCT9eHltd8ffUuq1q_Ni1p8p4FAW7t X_HUebzg_sknmLooIe7UHLVUvH1l2ZpTvoXKSstEt98-W1gGRvox9alpCdbdTpy8FHnfPH9qowfI7cMSFJtW69eAy6xCSw 0ED3oUFXaqvxV0nFM3FuXLg-uF031QK-5FoggFsCTcdmeClWA49wFk-c9sVO7IUkeVVMjgf6-9kHwEGxUupMBdGC7WSXVRJRmC7qmg-sT0DNUChXwG0Sppjg36vRNPC_ABgqPlO7da9yqbUhDa1Cn1R4I b_FnyOKIxlMSFzUMC4QTzXHwcBhr_Pak1uW1rlblzr-p2vMgiqedWY3NB1kp29qlqARFgzkHe7RVHvhHUembiJHwk8gGq vdOfDVHPG6MVBrzdd30pCMs3eEV9Qmc0bJnHIdbd_ZFypST_kK tFq2KPteAh4=w939-h838-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hsh9YVMLLqpC2NT3l-fYKZeOY8Gst4T9s5uWC3-g1T-ld9wLP1rXl33JWihsGny36s5Fxu-ywlVrA5Ywr8730vLZLDXJE3vwIfAzDKKdMVTosg6TFWtSj3A1o 3kSqhjVsytU03f6HLdlScRBCgW3l6Afzy-oBwoHwHquV9U7iFxEOmYkmDMB94I2Fy7JZk7hS0wuoLsXaOiw5-pBiDV7J2n7t_CRF0e3EoZ2LlMB65hNjVUgjiX3utEdmfCZn2Bv DkmJw1dw8N4-C-fs41ykUkgV9ExatKqMIkfyf6tx0DTLEtuU0Ukzn7borXxsuq36 3c6KAbwaInpvhw-KscVh-s_8W1H1hW5Cv73r_QqjWYun7QdVV83mBOF5FFkbif_cOQA-C_rkdNEgr5Bu5eGXYjabvdKj32AJfvPsivQhs-LTyiP-8Zqh9CdpBVxvI6Qqsc1GHB1DCOvRfABU-qMHyiy008qh0JO5-XJ-zjXOl9DuUcy1i51iBqrLaYCdSFzxpbldeacvFjmNR89hh1-yaRugd55e0wfolko5jSEuzMr1BNH5baLRCKtuez1LKGDI62Ox4 0kCoLtSnCtAmfR4JKJWsXWiynDA06pjQH6GgXEForf15uWaHqU 9sWWlglvh1asU7ns1F8dqJJe6YFQYy8nZ-XjJKxY=w939-h838-no

domogled
05-04-19, 22:20
my Eurogenes K36,Croatia and Montenegro seems to have the highest double digit values. What do you think JajarBingan (https://www.eupedia.com/forum/members/51364-JajarBingan) still a coincidence the Croatian connection :) ?
Edit: 23andme v5 chip

https://i.ibb.co/W0CDC1x/k36europe.png

(https://https://i.ibb.co/RyTpnqk/k36europe2.png)

Angela
05-04-19, 22:23
Mine:
The high Portugal number (Lusitanian and Ligurian similarities?) and the high Catalan number aren't really a surprise. I didn't think the German and especially French Swiss and Austrian numbers would be that high. The Cornwall number is a bit off?

Anyway:

https://i.imgur.com/tGQ6h2L.png

Ed. to adjust zoom function.

Makes more sense now. The 55 is Brittany. The 76 was Balearics, not Catalonia. I guess Corsica really is Tuscany. :)

Carlos
05-04-19, 22:30
Carlos and Fernando in this order

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-79SK8nigEeQ/XKeIHOHngrI/AAAAAAAAAS0/W6c_bZAIaLcEc8j8dSfqQMZth0z6I1Z_ACLcBGAs/s1600/_C__Users_JUANCARLOS_Downloads_admixPaintDiff1Chr. cgiX1CROMOSOMA5.html.png

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-toOqQpyM_Pw/XKeITQaifnI/AAAAAAAAAS4/NnMOQ_PJVZE_X1fatrmzZcL9QOeX_QkzwCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_3_EB4566X1CROMOSOMA3.gif
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EwBs_5FuAK0/XKeIYkFzN9I/AAAAAAAAATA/JES2mzGiHZM086_S-AtF2qjn_gytkLpTQCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_3_BB23C5X1CROMOSOMA2.gif

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hkNyegc4-dQ/XKeIj4_T3WI/AAAAAAAAATI/yVkz0l9JROUmp_Z2VVHr_72AqFc66fa4QCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_21_EB4566.gif
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-moWOZdvrYqI/XKeJF4k1r2I/AAAAAAAAATc/PYP1RmZ8fGgZTEzJi4SIp78Tf9fnb7MnQCLcBGAs/s1600/Z061309_21_BB23C5.gif

I have chosen two random chromosames, 3 and 22 to compare them with Fernando's.

halfalp
05-04-19, 22:42
[QUOTE=Salento;571955]if you’re on GedMatch and uploaded your RawData:

https://genesis.gedmatch.com/ (https://genesis.gedmatch.com/login1.php)

> Admixture (heritage) > Select > Eurogenes > input your Kit Ninber > Select Eurogenes K36 > continue

copy your Results.

Then go to:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

https://i.imgur.com/Epdv7nj.png

(http://https://i.imgur.com/Epdv7nj.png)

halfalp
05-04-19, 22:45
Mine:
The high Portugal number (Lusitanian and Ligurian similarities?) and the high Catalan number aren't really a surprise. I didn't think the German and especially French Swiss and Austrian numbers would be that high. The Cornwall number is a bit off?

Anyway:


I think 23andme is considering Swiss ancestry as Italian, wich could tell that swiss peoples have something to do related with italian peoples.

Angela
05-04-19, 22:48
I think 23andme is considering Swiss ancestry as Italian, wich could tell that swiss peoples have something to do related with italian peoples.

It doesn't matter what 23andme thinks or doesn't think. That has to do with interpretation.

This algorithm just uses the raw data, the snps, and clearly, going by Salento's results, they have both Ticino and German Swiss reference samples, and from my results they also have French Swiss reference results.

Sorry if that disappoints.:grin:

Cheer up. You're still 84% similar to some Germans.

halfalp
05-04-19, 22:50
It doesn't matter what 23andme thinks or doesn't think. That has to do with interpretation.

This algorithm just uses the raw data, the snps, and clearly, going by Salento's results, they have both Ticino and German Swiss reference samples, and from my results they also have French Swiss reference results.

Sorry if that disappoints.

Disspaointed about what?

Carlos
05-04-19, 23:58
Comparison of my kit with ZZ2243872 (Morisco of the ancient kingdom of Granada)


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kD2pBAux3OI/XKfP-ym4rVI/AAAAAAAAAUs/_sWMhEITP_ASIfY5YNB9aGvwTfsoqgwXQCLcBGAs/s1600/ZZ2243872_EB4566MORISCOGRANADA.jpeg

Joey37
06-04-19, 00:35
10878 And the winners are Alpine Germans!

Regio X
06-04-19, 14:59
Intuitively, some of these comparative results look so weird. I mean, less similarity with Minoans from the BA Aegean (18) than with Paleolithic Ust' Ishim, who barely contributed anything to the modern European population? Ust'Ishim looks much closer than Mal'ta (3), which is demonstrably connected to the ANE that does exist in most modern Europeans via the steppe ancestry. There are other strange results like that. Or are each of these groups (e.g. Paleolithic before glaciation, Northwestern Europe, etc.) to be judged on their own, that is, their results would not be comparable with those included in another group, only with those under the same label?Indeed. But the cool thing, I guess, is the big number of clusters in the calculator the similarity rate and map are based on, which serves the purpose of these tools, rather than being informative per se, in isolation. In fact, the tools work like an Oracle more or less, and they have a decent use for comparisons, making more sense when analysed as a whole. Plus, I guess a high rate tends to evidence, comparatively, a real high similarity. It's just that there must be a margin of error for them, naturally. Still, it's a nice reference, as we can observe empirically. Not perfect, of course.
As for Minoans etc., the similarity rate uses a calculator with modern references, meaning the DNA of ancient samples are categorized in clusters based on modern individuals, and it doesn't matter the "distance" of each fit. So it's inverted. The purpose of calculators is to find how the individual is mixed, either using contemporary references or ancient. But ok.
It seems K36, as all of its kind, calculates which cluster is the closest to a certain segment, and once it finds one, all the others are despised (zero fit). What matters are the overlaps of the results themselves, or if you prefer, the differences (100 - <differences>). So, if you get a relatively good fit of 5% of certain cluster, and the ancient sample gets, say, a bad fit of 10% (but still a fit; it will be forcibly categorized anyway), you'd get 5% more of "similarity" rate. As an extreme example, imagine a Denisovan against these tools. Let's hypothesize he gets some relatively high % related to certain Austronesians. The result is that the similarity rate between these Austranesians and a Denisovan could be higher than between the former and, say, the Sardinians(?).
In short, the clusters are mutually exclusive. They become more informative when well chosen, as the reference samples.

As you said in another thread, the results are not a given truth. A last example, practical, and not so extreme, are the Basques, a somewhat drifted pop. I'm not sure they get more Neolithic DNA than North Italians in admixture tests, for example. Probably not. However, Sardinians and Basques, "more than any other populations in Europe", would be those who best "preserved the 'original' widespread early Neolithic population component". Then I think we could say Basques are the second more similar to early farmers genetically, according to f-statistics. But not necessarily according to admixture. ;)

@Angela
I just checked my K36 results. I see some inconsistence just in Eastern_Euro and West_Caucasian clusters. Mine are higher than the sum of my parents'. That's using just 23andMe data. This fact could in theory result in a higher score than the sum of my parents', yes. I haven't checked if it happened though.

Btw, the numbers in your similarity map above are a bit offset. It's likely a browser issue. Perhaps it has something to do with the zoom? Anyway, again, it's somewhat similar to mine, for obvious reasons. :)

Duarte
06-04-19, 15:47
Indeed. But the cool thing, I guess, is the big number of clusters in the calculator the similarity rate and map are based on, which serves the purpose of these tools, rather than being informative per se, in isolation. In fact, the tools work like an Oracle more or less, and they have a decent use for comparisons, making more sense when analysed as a whole. Plus, I guess a high rate tends to evidence, comparatively, a real high similarity. It's just that there must be a margin of error for them, naturally. Still, it's a nice reference, as we can observe empirically. Not perfect, of course.
As for Minoans etc., the similarity rate uses a calculator with modern references, meaning the DNA of ancient samples are categorized in clusters based on modern individuals, and it doesn't matter the "distance" of each fit. So it's inverted. The purpose of calculators is to find how the individual is mixed, either using contemporary references or ancient. But ok.
It seems K36, as all of its kind, calculates which cluster is the closest to a certain segment, and once it finds one, all the others are despised (zero fit). What matters are the overlaps of the results themselves, or if you prefer, the differences (100 - <differences>). So, if you get a relatively good fit of 5% of certain cluster, and the ancient sample gets, say, a bad fit of 10% (but still a fit; it will be forcibly categorized anyway), you'd get 5% more of "similarity" rate. As an extreme example, imagine a Denisovan against these tools. Let's hypothesize he gets some relatively high % related to certain Austronesians. The result is that the similarity rate between these Austranesians and a Denisovan could be higher than between the former and, say, the Sardinians(?).
In short, the clusters are mutually exclusive. They become more informative when well chosen, as the reference samples.

As you said in another thread, the results are not a given truth. A last example, practical, and not so extreme, are the Basques, a somewhat drifted pop. I'm not sure they get more Neolithic DNA than North Italians in admixture tests, for example. Probably not. However, Sardinians and Basques, "more than any other populations in Europe", would be those who best "preserved the 'original' widespread early Neolithic population component". Then I think we could say Basques are the second more similar to early farmers genetically, according to f-statistics. But not necessarily according to admixture. ;)

@Angela
I just checked my K36 results. I see some inconsistence just in Eastern_Euro and West_Caucasian clusters. Mine are higher than the sum of my parents'. That's using just 23andMe data. This fact could in theory result in a higher score than the sum of my parents', yes. I haven't checked if it happened though.

Btw, the numbers in your similarity map above are a bit offset. It's likely a browser issue. Perhaps it has something to do with the zoom? Anyway, again, it's somewhat similar to mine, for obvious reasons. :)

Dear Regio X.
They recommend not zooming if you're using Chrome because the small squares appear offset from the geographic region they're referring to. I saw that Angela found her result of Cornwall low. In fact, on her map (map of Angela), the result refers to Brittany, France, and was moved upward, appearing to be from Cornwall probably by the use of zoom. They recommend using Mozilla Firefox in case you want to zoom.
Big Hug :)

Angela
06-04-19, 16:45
I changed the map zoom and edited my post. Thanks, guys. :)

Salento
06-04-19, 16:49
@Sile knock knock

I noticed that I only have one or two reds on the K36 Sim Map.
I wonder if there’s a connection with the low frequency of the Y Haplogroup.
I know that autosomal and haplogroups don’t necessarily relate.

just wondering if you get low reds too. :)

Regio X
06-04-19, 17:04
Anyway, again, it's somewhat similar to mine, for obvious reasons. :)@All
There is already a thread for the similarity map specifically. :)

Here are mine (I should have chosen better colors; so please increase the brightness):
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=510687#post510687

@Duarte
Thanks for the info.

@Angela
You're always welcome.

Regio X
08-04-19, 19:43
It's funny how most of you ethnic Italians seems to have more match with Neolithic Europe, Mediterranean Metal Ages and Mediterranea in general. While i have huge matches with something Bell Beaker ancestry. But on the K36, my biggest score of like 18.something is Italy. How's that translating in real hypothesis?Genetics and geography singing virtually in unison? :)
That would be courtesy of the Alps mainly, hindering the gene flow. Anyway, that's why we're "Southern" Europeans genetically, not just geographically. I mean, it's already a regional (or sub-continental, if you prefer) cluster in many calculators, with high precision and relatively high recall in reports like the 23andMe Ancestry Composition. Meaning it's distinguishable, and meaning South Europe wouldn't be North Europe, East Europe, Middle East, North Africa or whatever. South Europe is... South Europe, also under a genetic perspective. ;)
Anyway, for most Europeans, all roads lead to Asia. And Africa! It's just a matter of "when". At the end, we're all related.
Btw, digression must be a "hobby" of mine. Sorry! :)

As for your Italian %, hmm... Well, I don't know exactly, but the "Northern" part of Swiss ancestry must be fragmented in several clusters, whereas what we could call the Southern part would be divided in just few, Italian and Iberian being the main (at least for Western Europeans). Just a guess.


I think 23andme is considering Swiss ancestry as Italian, wich could tell that swiss peoples have something to do related with italian peoples.Not sure what you mean. As already suggested, 23andMe has nothing to do with it directly. The calculator tries to fit your DNA, the Raw Data, in the clusters, and it doesn't matter how you call them (could be just "A", "B", "C"...). The references matter, both from the calculator and map. If a certain segment falls in any of these clusters, it means it has more similarity to the related references compared to others'. That's it. The labels don't change the similarity results you get, of course. So, assuming the references - used by the calculator - for the Italian cluster come from Italy, which seems obvious, then 18% of your DNA would be more similar to them compared to all others, including the several "Northerners". Italians themselves get %s from other clusters, naturally, and you may get some from the same, which is added in the "similarity rate" between you and these Italian references used for the map.

Jovialis
08-04-19, 20:02
https://i.imgur.com/S9GyHLM.png

These are my results using solely AncestryDNA raw data. I think it looks quite similar to the results of the combined raw data file.

https://i.imgur.com/w6giNqy.png

Jovialis
08-04-19, 23:18
https://i.imgur.com/S9GyHLM.png

These are my results using solely AncestryDNA raw data. I think it looks quite similar to the results of the combined raw data file.

https://i.imgur.com/w6giNqy.png

https://i.imgur.com/550now6.png

I made this colorized version of the map.

hrvclv
09-04-19, 01:18
https://i.imgur.com/ngX2ZVr.jpg
I agree with Angela there seems to be a Lusitanian/Celtiberian - Celto-Ligurian connection.
I thought I'd get more Roman, and more Basque.
Equal distances from : Baleares, Normandy, Lombardy. - Madrid, Innsbruck, Antwerpen. - Aragon, Brittany, Friuli. - Romagna, England, Wales. - Rome, Copenhagen, Orkneys.
Never felt so distinctly European!

Salento
09-04-19, 15:12
https://i.imgur.com/550now6.png

I made this colorized version of the map.

Recent Ancestors v2 (Admixture Studio v1.2)

AncestryDNA: (1 week ago)
http://i.imgur.com/lObQOdL.jpg

NatGeo Helix: (Yesterday)
http://i.imgur.com/DTpFkZY.jpg

23andme (2 weeks ago)
http://i.imgur.com/oNaMMht.jpg

The program updated often.

Carlos
09-04-19, 16:09
^^

0`01 Spain


Less is more at any time that Iberian 0'01 can seize you

Salento
09-04-19, 16:29
^^

0`01 Spain


Less is more at any time that Iberian 0'01 can seize you

It’s all relative. :)

Those were the most Recent Ancestors.

Further-back in time I get more substantial Iberia.

(The more tests I take, the more confused I get) LOL

https://i.imgur.com/BbvCbYj.jpg

Carlos
09-04-19, 16:47
^^

Within us is all the information, perhaps at a subcosm level. When something does not fit too much the subconscious mind somehow tells us in their own way so we feel confused, I think it is a good indication that in this or that aspect something fails. Pay attention to the messages and clues that your own subconscious sends you are clues and rough messages that may seem to still create more confusion. Ask your subconscious to show you the way or what you want to know clearly and it will happen, maybe not immediately, but it will come. By the way, does the aserejé still sound in your car?

*I'll see your answer to the night now I go to the field to catch snails I love in tomato sauce.

Salento
09-04-19, 17:00
I haven’t met my subconscious yet, and I don't think it wants to meet me. I’ll try.

Aserejé still lives in my car :petrified:

Angela
09-04-19, 17:02
Salento,

It's telling you what you already know. As far as modern populations go, you're Southern Italian.

The further back you go in time the muddier it will get.

Salento
09-04-19, 17:05
Salento,

It's telling you what you already know. As far as modern populations go, you're Southern Italian.

The further back you go in time the muddier it will get.

Thanks Angela, :)

Regio X
10-04-19, 01:55
https://i.imgur.com/ngX2ZVr.jpg
I agree with Angela there seems to be a Lusitanian/Celtiberian - Celto-Ligurian connection.
I thought I'd get more Roman, and more Basque.
Equal distances from : Baleares, Normandy, Lombardy. - Madrid, Innsbruck, Antwerpen. - Aragon, Brittany, Friuli. - Romagna, England, Wales. - Rome, Copenhagen, Orkneys.
Never felt so distinctly European!The map is nice, but far from being perfect. I don't believe you're closer to Greeks, Romanians or Scandinavians genetically than to Basques. Problem is that Basques, being somewhat drifted, get lots of Basque in K36, while most of others don't. It's like that AHG who gets very few West Med % at K36, translated in low similarity with Sardinians. As we know, the closest modern pop to Early Farmers are the Sardinians, according to both f-statistics and admixture. So the similarity map may be somewhat misleading in some cases.

hrvclv
10-04-19, 11:05
The map is nice, but far from being perfect. I don't believe you're closer to Greeks, Romanians or Scandinavians genetically than to Basques. Problem is that Basques, being somewhat drifted, get lots of Basque in K36, while most of others don't. It's like that AHG who gets very few West Med % at K36, translated in low similarity with Sardinians. As we know, the closest modern pop to Early Farmers are the Sardinians, according to both f-statistics and admixture. So the similarity map may be somewhat misleading in some cases.

I agree. I think the results we get from those calculators begin to make some sense only after we have had a very close look at the spreadsheets, when available.

I have tested with two labs, and uploaded my results to a number of sites. At the end of the day, it's hard to decide what clear conclusions to draw, because "nobody seems to agree with nobody". FTDNA and MyHeritage have me 60% British Isles (!), when 23andMe gives me 49% "French and German". My "Italian" ranges from 3% to 26% depending on the calculator.

But, well... it's fun anyway!

That said, to K36's credit, it has me right on spot geographically.

Carlos
10-04-19, 13:08
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k-E86ZOlEFg/XKyPvuHiPgI/AAAAAAAAAYg/tq495CYWHGsuCIuYbSPDGM_wUuRC9LzwACLcBGAs/s1600/gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr_ADN_similitudebis.jpeg
Almost when I had finished the map I realized that I had covered the numbers, I did what I could to remedy it, but I was not willing to start over, I prefer free art.

Something funny happened to me when I painted. From Spain to Central Europe center easily without problems but when you get to the color yellow with green you had the feeling of avoiding an encounter with someone it created me even a great nervousness at the height of Macedonia-Bulgaria-Rumania.

Regio X
10-04-19, 13:45
I agree. I think the results we get from those calculators begin to make some sense only after we have had a very close look at the spreadsheets, when available.
I have tested with two labs, and uploaded my results to a number of sites. At the end of the day, it's hard to decide what clear conclusions to draw, because "nobody seems to agree with nobody". FTDNA and MyHeritage have me 60% British Isles (!), when 23andMe gives me 49% "French and German". My "Italian" ranges from 3% to 26% depending on the calculator.
But, well... it's fun anyway!
That said, to K36's credit, it has me right on spot geographically.Particularly, I would trust more in 23andMe, but I guess others must add clues occasionally.

Yeah, I agree. The map is fun, and it has its credit in accuracy, simplicity and representation. Indeed, high numbers tend to be more realistic, apparently, even so there must be some margin also here. Btw, they also put me correctly in North Italy. As I said before, it looks like an Oracle, a good one, and the big number of K36 clusters, not much informative in isolation, seems the "ace up its sleeve" .

domogled
10-04-19, 21:44
@All
There is already a thread for the similarity map specifically. :)

Here are mine (I should have chosen better colors; so please increase the brightness):
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=510687#post510687

@Duarte
Thanks for the info.

@Angela
You're always welcome.


You are right Sir, I think I have now :) the right results in regard of "similarity rate with different ancient genomes"



https://i.ibb.co/b6305Xv/anc-gen1.png
https://i.ibb.co/vsnxSxP/anc-gen2.png
https://i.ibb.co/7NYLJxz/anc-gen3.png

Jovialis
12-04-19, 00:53
https://i.imgur.com/550now6.png

I think you can see an outline of the commonality I have with some people, partly because of NE1, which I get 65 on the similarity chart.

https://i.imgur.com/X61fEEf.png

https://i.imgur.com/w6giNqy.png

xri34
17-04-19, 19:56
Does anyone know the gedmatch kit number of Bavaria STR 300?