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Salento
23-02-20, 05:57
... from above.

All connected at the same position:

R850 and R437 (Latins), CL36 (Italian ... ), CL25 (Calabrese), ;) R436 (Paisà) Imperial Romans, Medieval and Renaissance Italians, a Cretan, a Minoan and a Mycenaean.

Angela
23-02-20, 18:40
... from above.

All connected at the same position:

R850 and R437 (Latins), CL36 (Italian ... ), CL25 (Calabrese), ;) R436 (Paisà) Imperial Romans, Medieval and Renaissance Italians, a Cretan, a Minoan and a Mycenaean.

You're right. This is ancient ancestry in Europe.

I have to look at my new results and see if there are major changes in the closest matches.

Carlos
25-02-20, 18:49
Greek imprint colony


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dcT3UbchT9k/XlVA4S1lkvI/AAAAAAAAC8A/DsBfjFB9Q-kdvpRJJe2bEqC_1ecwKgq-ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I8213.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8xjDfOc6gmM/XlVA--aA1OI/AAAAAAAAC8E/AbyLVA5pwi4QCjIkL4AjS7tJvc1sPLIIACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I8213ANCIENT.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xWsYgkacNiI/XlVBSqyMpPI/AAAAAAAAC8Q/GLQ6nwe39Jga3AGCqtbH67TNj6JCthEAQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/i8213haplogrupo.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--Kb2rEps5JE/XlVBgZVWXaI/AAAAAAAAC8U/x2zImTrdcvEpB4h5I_kUvpa61UZIo-_igCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I8213sIMILARsamples.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPwHLH3A0-8/XlVBvTe9pjI/AAAAAAAAC8c/ylgkAASEfw4kZUDxozfxSn_pQ26azqC5wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I8213modernclosests.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_47xIOaNzcs/XlVCMt4JftI/AAAAAAAAC8o/gTyAWvTu2VQTTn2HB2qQwQwSOarCXcZQgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/i8213pcaAncient.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r9k2TcLm25Y/XlVCPoCfYDI/AAAAAAAAC8s/txqgmwXbtSgVsIZzNpbvuF1_NKyd7MFxQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/i8213PCAmodern.jpeg

(For us, northern Spain is from Galicia to the Basque Country, then there is the Northeastthat we don't perceive it well as the north)
It seems that the sample stands out in northern Spain. It seems that the sample stands out in northern Spain. Can you see who could give logistics and even a human contingent to the Greeks to establish a colony on the coast? Also highlight in similar samples the result with the Kingdom of Tartessos. Also highlight in similar samples the result with the Kingdom of Tartessos. Even today, when a country sets up a factory in another country, very few natives of origin move to the factory abroad compared to the vast majority of workers who will be of origin if we move it to a hostile territory where the first carelessness the natives are going to cut your neck and they will destroy because it is possible that the Greeks delegated to others and not even if they lived in the colony or perhaps intermittently and sporadically as a form of supervision so as not to lose control. Ohh the ancient Greek blood agenda fades in the current area to justify small economic successes of the present.

Another sample of Ampurias of time with Greek imprint:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tkw0hrqJerE/XlVD_a1YxrI/AAAAAAAAC88/2zgJqTffjsMXWdrStlof4uLklvLnI0DjwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I8210LOGOTIPO.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SzG6dRWuc5Y/XlVEDH0O6HI/AAAAAAAAC9A/toq99dFfr60VT00GXGiYEr5EosxOJARDgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/AlemmanniEmpurias.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-V2hJSHpzk2Q/XlVFMjk-SgI/AAAAAAAAC9Y/UV2Z4XyK31slo8d4By6SjpNhBuvf4EMoQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I8210HAPLOGRUPOS.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q0NzI25cFtE/XlVFRWgM6HI/AAAAAAAAC9c/VoDYUk1qIk4HFLQ8l7TCwiKCQZzpQvWzgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I8210similarSamples.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TX8bxEwwfkw/XlVFp2FQ_TI/AAAAAAAAC9s/mIyXoHKvvHc75SkIdWPju2MxhijT6yPNwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/i8210modernClosests.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hz7opWwaVxI/XlVFBv--hEI/AAAAAAAAC9Q/t_7c2S9DkRc-QP6N7ORl-r-GZLoG1J2XQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/i8210pcaAncient.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CiFvXJ9l6-U/XlVFEV7nSjI/AAAAAAAAC9U/g309o5rAWPEjcGVb2RLvcPkYi5fmoq0fwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/i8210pcaModern.jpeg

A sample of Northern Europe. It could be a mercenary a prisoner e.t.c. placed in the colony by the Greeks.

It seems that in the Roman era there is already a more relaxed flow of locals and neighboring tribes in the colony, perhaps due to the commerce and attraction of the neighbors by the system somewhat more free than the Greek more hermetic and based on panic and without presence. It is the impression it gives me.

6. Roman-Era Empuries (47 BC) ..... 9.529 - I10866 -
mtDNA: K1b2a

Visigoth + Iberian (5.889)
Vascones + Gallo-Roman (6.976)
Visigoth + Vascones (7.081)
Visigoth (7.744)
Vascones + Etruscan (7.898)
Visigoth + Gallo-Roman (8.884)
Gallo-Roman (10.28)
Vascones (10.38)
Etruscan (11.34)
Iberian (11.35)

1. Spanish_Cantabria (7.962)
2. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (8.821)
3. Spanish_Aragon (8.964)
4. Spanish_Cataluna (9.319)
5. Southwest_French (9.464)
6. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (9.653)
7. Spanish_Murcia (10.35)
8. Spanish_Valencia (10.72)

Similar Samples
Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (880 AD) (5.536)
Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) (7.744)
High Status Male Haunstetten (2059 BC) (8.079)
Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) (8.707)
Vasconic-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) (8.789)

12. Late Roman-Era Emporion (550 AD) ..... 11.18 - I8343 -

Iberian + Gallo-Roman (7.714)
Iberian (7.891)
Visigoth + Iberian (8.14)
Vascones + Etruscan (9.039)
Iberian + Vascones (9.157)
Vascones + Gallo-Roman (9.258)
Gallo-Roman (10.57)
Visigoth (11.33)
Vascones (12.16)
Etruscan (13.29)

Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (440 BC) (7.891)
Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (880 AD) (8.834)
Greco-Era Emporion (450 BC) (9.533)
Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (200 BC) (9.574)
Nazari Period Andalusia (1400 AD) (9.627)

mtDNA: J1c2c2

Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2


42. Roman-Carthago Mix Empuries (150 AD) ..... 13.63 - I8475

Iberian + Roman Hispania (5.384)
Iberian + Carthaginian (6.127)
Iberian + Illyrian (7.206)
Roman Hispania + Etruscan (7.413)
Etruscan + Carthaginian (7.751)
Etruscan (9.162)
Roman Hispania (10.74)
Iberian (11.39)
Carthaginian (12.78)
Illyrian (14.37)

mtDNA: T2b

1. Spanish_Aragon (7.172)
2. Spanish_Andalucia (8.555)
3. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (8.745)
4. Spanish_Valencia (8.836)
5. Southwest_French (10.51)
6. Spanish_Cantabria (11.03)
7. Spanish_Murcia (12.18)
8. French_Basque (12.19)

Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) (6.965)
Hispano-Roman-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate (950 AD) (7.529)
Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) (8.966)
Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) (9.05)
Etruscan Civitavecchia (650 BC) (9.162)

69. Roman Era Empuries (80 AD) ..... 14.63 - I8339 -
mtDNA: K1a+195

Iberian + Latin (1.346)
Iberian + Vascones (2.604)
Vascones + Latin (3.867)
Visigoth + Iberian (3.958)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (4.22)
Iberian (4.773)
Latin (4.845)
Vascones (5.475)
Gallo-Roman (9.462)
Visigoth (9.891)

Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) (2.886)
Bronze Age Spain Cogotas I (1500 BC) (4.106)
Vasconic Tribe Empuries (375 BC) (4.17)
Roman-Era Emporion (200 AD) (4.198)
Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (280 BC) (4.773)

1. French_Basque (13.90)
2. Spanish_Basque (13.96)
3. Spanish_Cantabria (14.55)
4. Spanish_Aragon (15.25)
5. Southwest_French (15.68)
6. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (16.94)
7. Spanish_Cataluna (17.83)
8. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (18.05)

Corocota79
01-03-20, 12:45
Hi,
It is funny the way same countries match same ancestors? Mine coincides almost 99% to yours. I am not surprised being form Spain as well. So my guess, even though informative, is that mytrueancestry does not add relevant info about you.
Regards!!!

Carlos
01-03-20, 17:53
Hi,
It is funny the way same countries match same ancestors? Mine coincides almost 99% to yours. I am not surprised being form Spain as well. So my guess, even though informative, is that mytrueancestry does not add relevant info about you.
Regards!!!

Hi. If we usually coincide with the same ancestors it seems that Spain is very homogeneous. If you can publish your results.

My new results of the last weeks are these:

4. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 9.106 - CL94
Gaul + Gallo-Roman (3.788)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (3.989)
Gaul + Etruscan (4.011)
Thracian + Illyrian (4.612)
Gaul + Thracian (5.328)
Gallo-Roman (7.032)
Illyrian (7.332)
Thracian (9.441)
Gaul (10.21)
Etruscan (11.04)

6. Roman-Era Empuries (47 BC) ..... 9.529 - I10866
Visigoth + Iberian (5.889)
Vascones + Gallo-Roman (6.976)
Visigoth + Vascones (7.081)
Visigoth (7.744)
Vascones + Etruscan (7.898)
Visigoth + Gallo-Roman (8.884)
Gallo-Roman (10.28)
Vascones (10.38)
Etruscan (11.34)
Iberian (11.35)

12. Late Roman-Era Emporion (550 AD) ..... 11.18 - I8343 -
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (7.714)
Iberian (7.891)
Visigoth + Iberian (8.14)
Vascones + Etruscan (9.039)
Iberian + Vascones (9.157)
Vascones + Gallo-Roman (9.258)
Gallo-Roman (10.57)
Visigoth (11.33)
Vascones (12.16)
Etruscan (13.29)

23. Vatya Bronze Age Hungary (1750 BC) ..... 12.12 - Rise483
Gallo-Roman + Etruscan (3.901)
Etruscan (4.011)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (4.615)
Iberian + Etruscan (4.616)
Visigoth + Etruscan (4.818)
Latin + Etruscan (4.864)
Gallo-Roman (5.476)
Visigoth (6.774)
Iberian (7.752)
Latin (10.29)

28. Bronze Age Vatya Pannonia (1600 BC) ..... 12.36 - Rise480
Gallo-Roman + Etruscan (6.364)
Visigoth + Gallo-Roman (6.768)
Etruscan (6.781)
Visigoth + Etruscan (6.874)
Iberian + Illyrian (6.946)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (7.381)
Gallo-Roman (7.545)
Visigoth (8.005)
Iberian (11.65)
Illyrian (12.07)

30. Carolingian Settlement Barcelona (790 AD) ..... 12.58 - I7676
Visigoth + Iberian (7.397)
Vascones + Gallo-Roman (7.465)
Visigoth + Vascones (8.252)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (8.292)
Iberian + Vascones (8.541)
Vascones (9.607)
Iberian (9.733)
Gallo-Roman (10.11)
Visigoth (10.49)
Latin (13.15)

36. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 13.4 - CL47b
Frank (Genetic match)

42. Roman-Carthago Mix Empuries (150 AD) ..... 13.63 - I8475 -
Iberian + Roman Hispania (5.384)
Iberian + Carthaginian (6.127)
Iberian + Illyrian (7.206)
Roman Hispania + Etruscan (7.413)
Etruscan + Carthaginian (7.751)
Etruscan (9.162)
Roman Hispania (10.74)
Iberian (11.39)
Carthaginian (12.78)
Illyrian (14.37)

49. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 13.94 - SZ28 -
Gallo-Roman (Genetic match)

59. Nazari Period Andalusia (1400 AD) ..... 14.41 - I8145
Visigoth + Iberian (14.6)
Vascones + Gallo-Roman (14.73)
Visigoth + Gallo-Roman (15.01)
Visigoth + Vascones (15.06)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (15.12)
Visigoth (15.28)
Gallo-Roman (15.37)
Iberian (16.62)
Vascones (16.83)
Latin (16.92)

69. Roman Era Empuries (80 AD) ..... 14.63 - I8339 -
Iberian + Latin (1.346)
Iberian + Vascones (2.604)
Vascones + Latin (3.867)
Visigoth + Iberian (3.958)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (4.22)
Iberian (4.773)
Latin (4.845)
Vascones (5.475)
Gallo-Roman (9.462)
Visigoth (9.891)

74. Basque Post-Roman Era Barcelona (650 AD) ..... 14.73 - I3777
Vascones (Genetic match)

78. Roman-Era Emporion (200 AD) ..... 14.94 - I8202
Vascones + Latin (2.513)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (3.53)
Iberian + Latin (3.907)
Iberian (4.383)
Iberian + Vascones (4.519)
Visigoth + Iberian (4.85)
Latin (7.567)
Vascones (7.798)
Gallo-Roman (9.078)
Visigoth (10.82)

85. Vasconic Greco-Era Empuries (425 BC) ..... 15.38 - I8209 -
Vascones + Latin (3.309)
Celtiberian + Latin (3.797)
Vascones (4.275)
Visigoth + Celtiberian (5.128)
Vascones + Celtiberian (5.511)
Iberian + Vascones (5.698)
Latin (5.831)
Iberian (9.266)
Celtiberian (10.07)
Visigoth (10.92)

86. Portugal Middle Bronze Age (1580 BC) ..... 15.48 - TV3831
Iberian + Latin (3.747)
Iberian (4.906)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (5.66)
Iberian + Etruscan (6.433)
Vascones + Latin (7.064)
Vascones + Etruscan (7.741)
Latin (11.23)
Etruscan (11.37)
Gallo-Roman (11.42)
Vascones (11.67)

87. Hispano-Roman-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate (950 AD) ..... 15.54 - I7497 -
Iberian + Roman Hispania (8.183)
Iberian + Al-Andalus (9.316)
Visigoth + Roman Hispania (10.42)
Roman Hispania + Etruscan (11.24)
Roman Hispania (12.03)
Iberian + Etruscan (12.57)
Iberian (13.28)
Etruscan (14.05)
Al-Andalus (14.45)
Visigoth (15.27)

88. Portugal Middle Bronze Age (1580 BC) ..... 15.56 - ValeOuro10207
Iberian (4.42)
Celtiberian + Latin (4.982)
Iberian + Latin (5.339)
Iberian + Vascones (5.882)
Iberian + Celtiberian (6.414)
Vascones + Latin (6.499)
Vascones (9.65)
Latin (10.84)
Celtiberian (11.22)
Gallo-Roman (12.5)

90. Vasconic Tribe Empuries (375 BC) ..... 15.68 - I8214
Vascones + Latin (2.241)
Celtiberian + Latin (3.849)
Vascones (3.872)
Latin (4.092)
Iberian + Latin (4.391)
Iberian + Vascones (4.487)
Visigoth + Celtiberian (5.939)
Iberian (8.028)
Visigoth (10.92)
Celtiberian (10.93)

92. Carolingian Settlement Barcelona (790 AD) ..... 15.77 - I7673 -
Vascones + Celtiberian (2.253)
Iberian + Celtiberian (3.263)
Celt + Iberian (3.488)
Vascones (3.635)
Iberian + Vascones (3.898)
Celt + Celtiberian (5.4)
Celtiberian (6.421)
Iberian (8.163)
Celt (11.09)
Latin (11.15)

106. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 16.58 - I7425
Roman Hispania + Illyrian (5.968)
Gallo-Roman + Roman Hispania (7.512)
Roman Hispania + Roman (8.013)
Al-Andalus + Roman Hispania (8.252)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (8.778)
Roman Hispania (9.593)
Roman (11.46)
Illyrian (11.6)
Gallo-Roman (13.22)
Al-Andalus (14.51)

114. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 16.77 - I3809
Iberian + Roman Hispania (8.691)
Vascones + Roman Hispania (9.473)
Vascones + Etruscan (12.87)
Visigoth + Roman Hispania (12.99)
Iberian + Etruscan (13.08)
Iberian (13.76)
Roman Hispania (14.77)
Etruscan (15.62)
Vascones (15.76)
Visigoth (16.74)

116. Carthago Al-Andalus Alhama de Granada (1200 AD) ..... 16.9 - I7457
Etruscan + Carthaginian (4.655)
Illyrian + Carthaginian (4.929)
Roman Hispania + Etruscan (5.513)
Al-Andalus + Carthaginian (5.888)
Roman Hispania + Carthaginian (7.096)
Carthaginian (9.024)
Etruscan (9.525)
Roman Hispania (10.04)
Al-Andalus (12.08)
Illyrian (14.9)

119. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 17.02 - SZ45
Gaul (Genetic match)

130. Pre-Roman Ullastret Girona (280 BC) ..... 17.5 - I3324
Gallo-Roman + Latin (6.06)
Latin (6.613)
Visigoth + Latin (7.263)
Latin + Etruscan (7.349)
Iberian + Latin (8.189)
Gallo-Roman (8.439)
Gallo-Roman + Etruscan (9.689)
Etruscan (11.79)
Iberian (12.27)
Visigoth (12.33)


135. Carolingian Settlement Barcelona (790 AD) ..... 17.66 - I7672
Gallo-Roman + Frank (14.1)
Al-Andalus + Frank (14.17)
Visigoth + Frank (14.34)
Frank + Illyrian (14.84)
Visigoth + Illyrian (15.52)
Illyrian (16.09)
Frank (16.24)
Gallo-Roman (17.38)
Visigoth (18.13)
Al-Andalus (18.31)

137. Greco-Era Emporion (450 BC) ..... 17.76 - I8213
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (8.526)
Iberian (9.044)
Iberian + Vascones (9.409)
Iberian + Celtiberian (9.711)
Iberian + Etruscan (10.03)
Celtiberian + Etruscan (10.77)
Vascones (14.0)
Celtiberian (14.26)
Gallo-Roman (17.29)
Etruscan (17.55)

138. Roman-Era Empuries (200 BC) ..... 17.78 - I8203 -
Latin (6.001)
Gallo-Roman + Latin (7.678)
Visigoth + Latin (8.338)
Vascones + Latin (8.459)
Iberian + Latin (9.35)
Visigoth + Iberian (9.451)
Gallo-Roman (10.88)
Vascones (11.34)
Visigoth (12.1)
Iberian (13.1)

141. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 17.94 - CL63
Frank (Genetic match)

142. Czech Velke Prilepy (2050 BC) ..... 18.08 - Rise577
Celt + Frank (4.344)
Saxon + Frank (4.503)
Visigoth + Celt (4.913)
Celt + Saxon (5.506)
Visigoth + Saxon (5.669)
Celt (5.888)
Saxon (7.131)
Frank (9.487)
Visigoth (10.27)
Vandal (10.71)

147. Carolingian Settlement Barcelona (790 AD) ..... 18.36 - I7675
Celtiberian + Latin (5.514)
Iberian + Latin (5.787)
Latin (5.824)
Vascones + Latin (6.572)
Iberian + Vascones (7.438)
Celtiberian + Gallo-Roman (7.887)
Vascones (8.611)
Iberian (8.701)
Celtiberian (11.55)
Gallo-Roman (13.59)

153. Portugal Middle Bronze Age (1580 BC) ..... 18.59 - MonteGato104 -
Latin (4.49)
Iberian + Latin (5.451)
Gallo-Roman + Latin (6.715)
Latin + Etruscan (7.706)
Iberian + Etruscan (8.507)
Visigoth + Latin (8.541)
Iberian (10.52)
Gallo-Roman (11.42)
Etruscan (12.36)
Visigoth (15.11)

164. Post-Roman Era Barcelona (650 AD) ..... 18.96 - I3776 -
Visigoth + Iberian (18.73)
Iberian + Illyrian (19.31)
Vascones + Gallo-Roman (19.36)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (19.44)
Vascones + Illyrian (19.45)

165. Hungary Elite Avar Kiskoros-Vaghohid (690 AD) ..... 18.96 - KVper3450_GE
Etruscan + Ostrogoth (11.31)
Ostrogoth + Thracian (11.92)
Gallo-Roman + Ostrogoth (11.95)
Visigoth + Ostrogoth (13.14)
Visigoth + Etruscan (15.36)
Gallo-Roman (16.24)
Ostrogoth (16.32)
Visigoth (16.81)
Etruscan (17.06)
Thracian (18.55)

168. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 19.01 - I3577
Roman Hispania + Latin (11.57)
Etruscan + Thracian (12.59)
Roman Hispania + Etruscan (12.7)
Etruscan (13.27)
Gallo-Roman + Etruscan (13.34)
Gallo-Roman + Latin (13.66)
Gallo-Roman (15.61)
Thracian (16.17)
Latin (17.54)
Roman Hispania (18.65)

172. Vatya Bronze Age Hungary (1750 BC) ..... 19.28 - Rise484 -
Celt + Vascones (5.989)
Vascones (6.974)
Celt (6.977)
Celt + Iberian (7.36)
Celt + Celtiberian (9.395)
Iberian + Vascones (9.886)
Vascones + Celtiberian (10.28)
Iberian (13.62)
Celtiberian (15.29)
Visigoth (18.17)

173. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) ..... 19.38 - DA199
Visigoth + Scythian (7.286)
Gaul + Frank (7.499)
Scythian + Frank (7.881)
Visigoth + Gaul (8.046)
Gaul (8.442)
Scythian + Gaul (8.861)
Frank (10.11)
Visigoth (11.25)
Thuringii (12.28)
Scythian (12.85)

174. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 19.47 - I3574
Iberian + Celtiberian (3.03)
Iberian + Vascones (5.035)
Celtiberian (5.763)
Iberian + Latin (6.233)
Vascones + Celtiberian (6.436)
Celt + Iberian (7.635)
Iberian (8.195)
Vascones (9.363)
Latin (15.44)
Celt (16.88)

182. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 19.91 - CL36
Roman (Genetic match)

184. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 19.97 - CL102
Scythian + Frank (3.971)
Gaul + Frank (4.406)
Visigoth + Gaul (4.755)
Scythian + Gaul (5.461)
Visigoth + Scythian (5.971)
Gaul (7.131)
Frank (7.131)
Visigoth (8.093)
Scythian (10.2)
Thuringii (11.42)

186. Greco-Era Emporion (375 BC) ..... 19.98 - I8210
Alemanni + Latin (1.783)
Alemanni + Gallo-Roman (5.908)
Visigoth + Alemanni (8.023)
Visigoth + Latin (9.727)
Latin + Frank (9.774)
Latin (9.813)
Gallo-Roman (13.84)
Frank (14.69)
Visigoth (14.76)
Alemanni (15.05)

187. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 20.25 - I3582
Roman Hispania (Genetic match)

190. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 20.6 - V4P
Celt + Ostrogoth (7.152)
Ostrogoth + Frank (8.854)
Saxon + Frank (8.901)
Celt + Frank (9.259)
Viking Danish + Celt (9.308)
Viking Danish (11.07)
Saxon (11.3)
Ostrogoth (11.69)
Celt (12.07)
Frank (12.91)

196. Nazari Period Andalusia (1400 AD) ..... 20.86 - I8147
Latin + Thracian (11.68)
Latin + Etruscan (13.73)
Latin (14.15)
Gallo-Roman + Latin (14.18)
Etruscan + Thracian (14.28)
Latin + Illyrian (14.63)
Thracian (15.77)
Etruscan (16.72)
Gallo-Roman (17.87)


​Of those who say they have remained in the bronze without intervening in the subsequent historical events of the Iberian Peninsula or as it says in the Iberia papers that have not been "affected" - term that I believe should change in the text - and for supposedly being so isolated it seems that they were the ones who gave logistics to all the invaders that were happening in Iberia and added that perhaps their territory was not attractive to the invaders at the level of agricultural exploitation were saving it in some way. This has made me remember when the Germans were installed in southern France and began to make excursions to the Spanish Basque country apparently innocently by making video and telling how well they eat when their plans were to reach Galicia and invade northern Spain to go down later maybe the Nazis were feeling the lump and thinking about it since they knew how Napoleon had ended up in Spain but if we take into account that after the march of the Germans the Basques contacted the Germans looking to be a protectorate because in at that time it was believed that they would win the war could very well be the same modus operandis with the previous historical invaders.

In conclusion about the invasions and colonies it can be seen that the Greeks at the genetic level nothing at all, it looks more Hispanic-Roman, Hispanic-godo, the vascones are an important footprint in the general genetic heritage and in Muslim times they are seen More Islamisted natives and what appears is a stroke of Carthaginian even before Al-Andalus that has remained nothing if we consider the expulsions, the reconquest and the repopulation.

Carlos
02-03-20, 16:04
I hadn't realized that I had it

117. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 16.97 - R1

Roman + Illyrian (3.087)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (3.926)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (5.552)
Gallo-Roman (5.829)
Gaul + Roman (5.895)
Roman Hispania + Roman (6.222)
Roman (7.154)
Illyrian (7.43)
Roman Hispania (12.19)
Gaul (13.73)

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UdAbEkYy4M0/Xl0GlVCOb8I/AAAAAAAADD0/rw67wqEcNX0nUk8SGND0EoNjLZzt81CEQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PCAR1a.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sX39o7zfYwM/Xl0GhDFG4rI/AAAAAAAADDw/sNod4BjplTcOkbW825T2yFctFh80EIyVACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PCAR1.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K3BKG-oHq38/Xl0R2iV8fXI/AAAAAAAADEE/cMc_lm3DDkEv5SWpdgju3BAuNRJVHTxOgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/timeLINE117samples.jpeg
117 Samples

Salento
02-03-20, 23:10
@Carlos ... I get a Soldier of God (Soldado de Dios) right after R1 :cool-v:

https://i.imgur.com/64oB8Yp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JGOUVdX.png

Duarte
03-03-20, 01:29
I hadn't realized that I had it

117. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 16.97 - R1

Roman + Illyrian (3.087)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (3.926)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (5.552)
Gallo-Roman (5.829)
Gaul + Roman (5.895)
Roman Hispania + Roman (6.222)
Roman (7.154)
Illyrian (7.43)
Roman Hispania (12.19)
Gaul (13.73)

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UdAbEkYy4M0/Xl0GlVCOb8I/AAAAAAAADD0/rw67wqEcNX0nUk8SGND0EoNjLZzt81CEQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PCAR1a.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sX39o7zfYwM/Xl0GhDFG4rI/AAAAAAAADDw/sNod4BjplTcOkbW825T2yFctFh80EIyVACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PCAR1.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K3BKG-oHq38/Xl0R2iV8fXI/AAAAAAAADEE/cMc_lm3DDkEv5SWpdgju3BAuNRJVHTxOgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/timeLINE117samples.jpeg
117 Samples


@Carlos ... I get a Soldier of God (Soldado de Dios) right after R1 :cool-v:

https://i.imgur.com/64oB8Yp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JGOUVdX.png

@Salento @Carlos
I can't deny that MTA continues still a very cool genetics' website. It doesn't lose its charm and the graphics are quite cool. Save the soldiers of God ;)

https://i.imgur.com/xLYh2De.png
https://i.imgur.com/nyExTMI.png
https://i.imgur.com/L7Wf3yD.png
https://i.imgur.com/g83mvud.png
https://i.imgur.com/4Kl83fo.png

Carlos
03-03-20, 01:34
After R1 I get:

117. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 16.97 - R1 -
Roman + Illyrian (3.087)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (3.926)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (5.552)
Gallo-Roman (5.829)
Gaul + Roman (5.895)
Roman Hispania + Roman (6.222)
Roman (7.154)
Illyrian (7.43)
Roman Hispania (12.19)
Gaul (13.73)

118. Ilercavones Catalan (200 BC) ..... 17.01 - I3321 -
Iberian + Latin (3.496)
Vascones + Latin (6.35)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (6.978)
Iberian + Etruscan (7.048)
Iberian (8.069)
Gallo-Roman + Latin (8.453)
Latin (8.519)
Gallo-Roman (11.43)
Etruscan (13.29)
Vascones (13.56)
Similar Samples
Bronze Age Northern Spain (1560 BC) (3.103)
Bronze Age Northern Spain (1440 BC) (3.976)
Bronze Age Northern Spain (1560 BC) (4.541)
Ilergetes Outlier Catalan (440 BC) (5.142)
Portugal Middle Bronze Age (1580 BC) (5.315)

119. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 17.02 - SZ45 -
Gaul (Genetic match)

The soldier of God I have it here:

63. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.55 - I12514 -
Al-Andalus + Illyrian (5.302)
Al-Andalus (6.84)
Roman Hispania + Illyrian (7.107)
Al-Andalus + Gallo-Roman (7.148)
Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (7.614)
Roman Hispania + Etruscan (7.653)
Illyrian (7.879)
Gallo-Roman (10.8)
Etruscan (11.71)
Roman Hispania (12.26)

64. Rugii Tribe Oder-Vistula (135 AD) ..... 14.55 - PCA36 - ?
Visigoth + Celt (6.454)
Celt + Frank (6.634)
Celt + Ostrogoth (6.752)
Visigoth + Saxon (7.21)
Celt + Saxon (8.429)
Frank (10.3)
Ostrogoth (12.18)
Saxon (12.61)
Visigoth (12.74)
Celt (13.01)

65. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 14.59 - I2649
Gallo-Roman + Roman Hispania (5.732)
Roman Hispania + Illyrian (6.705)
Roman Hispania + Thracian (7.22)
Gaul + Roman Hispania (7.536)
Gaul + Illyrian (7.768)
Illyrian (7.896)
Gallo-Roman (10.71)
Thracian (12.28)
Roman Hispania (12.55)
Gaul (13.7)

66. Vascones Tribe Vasconia (280 BC) ..... 14.59 - I3758 -
Vascones (Genetic match)

67. Crusader Knight French / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 14.61 - SI-40 -
Crusader (Genetic match)

68. Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.62 - I7498 -
Al-Andalus (Genetic match)

69. Roman Era Empuries (80 AD) ..... 14.63 - I8339 -
Iberian + Latin (1.346)
Iberian + Vascones (2.604)
Vascones + Latin (3.867)
Visigoth + Iberian (3.958)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (4.22)
Iberian (4.773)
Latin (4.845)
Vascones (5.475)
Gallo-Roman (9.462)
Visigoth (9.891)

70. Spaniard Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.64 - I12515 -
Roman Hispania + Illyrian (5.027)
Al-Andalus + Roman (5.785)
Al-Andalus + Illyrian (5.785)
Roman Hispania + Roman (6.428)
Al-Andalus + Roman Hispania (6.902)
Al-Andalus (7.786)
Illyrian (8.347)
Roman Hispania (9.608)
Gallo-Roman (11.09)
Roman (11.35)

Salento
03-03-20, 04:36
@Carlos @Duarte

The Soldier of God is obviously “mi Abuelo” ... lol :)

Dod K12 (Ancestry-R-Data):

https://i.imgur.com/n1taGqF.jpg

Salento
04-03-20, 13:57
If I understood correctly, you share with R1, proto-Villanovan (930 BC) 106 segments, the largest being 250.24 cM !? So I think he may be a brother or one of your parents who died about 3000 years ago, but you have survived the time so far! 20 out of 22 chromosomes are smaller than 250 cM. So the whole chromosome 1 or 2 is practically inherited unchanged even after about 3000 years? Are you of unparalleled longevity? lol... How did this happen?!

You misunderstood :) those are NOT my results!

At the top, it says R1.

That’s R1 DNA,
That’s R1 Kit,
Those are R1 results.

Salento
04-03-20, 16:31
Oh, thank you. I almost panicked for such a result :). However why doesn't R1 share 100% of the DNA with himself, on all his 22 chromosomes (22 segments) ?
fyi ... R1 is a Girl :)

‘cause the “Combined R1 raw-data” (provided by Jovialis) that I uploaded to MTA, is slightly different than the R1 raw-data processed by MTA,

I could have loaded the R1 AncestryDNA format raw-data If I wanted to.

The deep dive results also show R1 chromosomes affinities with the other Samples in the MTA database.

Carlos
04-03-20, 16:41
Outliers R1
https://i.imgur.com/L7Wf3yD.png

My outliers

115. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 16.78 - scy304 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

129. Medieval Ireland Kilteasheen (950 AD) ..... 17.48 - KT09 - ?
Top
68 %
match vs all users

159. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 18.8 - I12645 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users

164. Post-Roman Era Barcelona (650 AD) ..... 18.96 - I3776 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

171. Bell Beaker Haunstetten Germany (2273 BC) ..... 19.28 - UNTA85_1343 -
Top
41 %
match vs all users

176. Celtic Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 19.58 - 6DRIF-22 -
Top
37 %
match vs all users

177. Visigoth Frankish Girona (550 AD) ..... 19.59 - I12032 -
Top
33 %
match vs all users

179. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 19.79 - I2647
Top
91 %
match vs all users

181. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) ..... 19.89 - AED_1108 -
Top
34 %
match vs all users

182. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 19.91 - CL36 - ?
Top
84 %
match vs all users

184. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 19.97 - CL102 - ?
Top
31 %
match vs all users

187. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 20.25 - I3582 -
Top
91 %
match vs all users

188. Immigrant Medieval Denmark (1305 AD) ..... 20.28 - G274 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

193. Bronze Age Amesbury (1450 BC) ..... 20.68 - I2458 -
Top
38 %
match vs all users

194. Medieval Tyrolian (580 AD) ..... 20.72 - CL53 -
Top
30 %
match vs all users

195. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 20.74 - I12162 -
Top
33 %
match vs all users

196. Nazari Period Andalusia (1400 AD) ..... 20.86 - I8147 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

198. Carthago Outlier San Ercolano (500 AD) ..... 21.0 - R121 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

199. Iron Age Catalan (600 BC) ..... 21.04 - I12642 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

200. Iberia Bronze Age (1600 BC) ..... 21.1 - ATP9 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

My wife was there for the year .... buf, I don't even remember ...

Salento
04-03-20, 20:47
MTA adds a symbol to show the Gender of the samples.

Male Sign: ♂

Female Sign: ♀

for example:

https://i.imgur.com/64oB8Yp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ouGPrJF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EQWkurz.jpg

Palermo Trapani
05-03-20, 16:30
Salento/Carlos. I may have asked this before. To get analysis done on 200 ancient samples at MyTrueAncestry, is that the Zeus level? Very interesting results for both of you.

Salento
05-03-20, 16:49
... at times, confusing:
(Prenestini, Palestrina, Praeneste)

The ancient name of Palestrina is Præneste.

R437 (Latin Prenestini Tribe) 300 BC

R436 (Roman Imperial Palestrina) 100 AD

Culture Latin

Praeneste (Palestrina), located south of Rome, was one of the largest ancient cities in Iron Age Latium. It was home to the Praenesti tribe ...

Salento
05-03-20, 16:54
Salento/Carlos. I may have asked this before. To get analysis done on 200 ancient samples at MyTrueAncestry, is that the Zeus level? Very interesting results for both of you.

I have the regular Zeus, the limit is 100 samples.

Carlos level is much more advanced than mine, I think.

Palermo Trapani
05-03-20, 18:12
I have the regular Zeus, the limit is 100 samples.

Carlos level is much more advanced than mine, I think.

Ok, so there is a Zeus and magna Zeus. Yours allows for 100, Carlos it looks like running his DNA against 200 samples.

Duarte
05-03-20, 18:49
@Palermo Trapani:

https://i.imgur.com/FJtiR9r.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QQTIKEl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fr6qDfk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2GebBXi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hy1QNXR.jpg

Palermo Trapani
05-03-20, 18:54
Thanks, bought Ceasar and stopped and never really went that far beyond it. Watching all you "Zeus guys" is tempting me to upgrade. MyTrueancestry should give all of you a commission!!!!!

Carlos
05-03-20, 19:01
Salento/Carlos. I may have asked this before. To get analysis done on 200 ancient samples at MyTrueAncestry, is that the Zeus level? Very interesting results for both of you.

It is as indicated by the capture that Duarte has made. There is a list to create kits, that list is increasing but still and not all the kits in the list can be created, I imagine it is a matter of time.


Creating kits I discovered that the kits of Iberia, Vettones, El Argar, La Loma del Puerco, Vascones, Ilergetes, Cueva de la Paloma, Cueva de la Guineu obtain each other and that Vascones tribe Vasconia obtains Carthaginian.

Soon I will make a selection of all my wives outliers, I know it is autosomal because then I will have married my wives and their families.

Carlos
05-03-20, 19:02
... at times, confusing:
(Prenestini, Palestrina, Praeneste)

The ancient name of Palestrina is Præneste.
I get Prenestini directly, it's harder for me to say Penestrini
R437 (Latin Prenestini Tribe) 300 BC

R436 (Roman Imperial Palestrina) 100 AD

Culture Latin

Praeneste (Palestrina), located south of Rome, was one of the largest ancient cities in Iron Age Latium. It was home to the Praenesti tribe ...

I get Prenestini directly, it's harder for me to say Penestrini

Salento
05-03-20, 21:03
I get Prenestini directly, it's harder for me to say Penestrini

I think I know what you are “really” saying!

... lol :grin:

matty74
07-03-20, 04:40
Looks like there's another update:

Hrafna-Flóki's Vilgerðarson's Expedition
data slide
A Norseman from West Norway named Naddoðr was en-route to the Faroe Islands and got lost accidentally landing in Iceland - seeing no signs of life and the snow falling, he named this land Snæland (snow land). Around the same period, a Swedish Viking named Garðarr Svavarsson was on his way to the Hebrides islands to claim an inheritance. He had difficulty navigating the Orkney islands and ended up drifting to Iceland. Instead of making landfall, he circumnavigated Iceland to discover this piece of land was indeed an island and spent the winter in a northern bay he called Húsavík (house bay). After returning to Norway stories were told of Garðarr's adventures. Hrafna-Flóki Vilgerðarson decided he would be the first Viking to head to Iceland and settle it.


Viking Boat Burial Iceland
VDP-A5 (925 AD)
mtDNA Haplogroup: H2a2a
Y-DNA Haplogroup:
Genetic Distance: 12.644
Sample Match! 87% closer than other users

Viking Celtic Boat Burial Iceland
VDP-A6 (925 AD)
mtDNA Haplogroup: H1c3a
Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1a1a1b1a3a
Genetic Distance: 6.8148
Sample Match! 93% closer than other users

Viking Gaelic Boat Burial Iceland
VDP-A7 (925 AD)
mtDNA Haplogroup: H4a1a1
Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1b1a1a2a1a1b
Genetic Distance: 10.942
Sample Match! 86% closer than other users

Viking Norse Iceland
DKS-A1 (935 AD)
mtDNA Haplogroup: U5a1h
Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1a1a1b1a3
Genetic Distance: 8.8369
Sample Match! 99% closer than other users

Salento
07-03-20, 05:18
re-upload

new sample: SZ1 Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD)

(why outlier ???) (No Gender yet)

WoW, the shared DNA ...

https://i.imgur.com/fhu5JeY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9jKSohX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DdBOEJU.jpg

Duarte
07-03-20, 13:04
re-upload

new sample: SZ1 Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD)

(why outlier ???) (No Gender yet)

WoW, the shared DNA ...

https://i.imgur.com/fhu5JeY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9jKSohX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DdBOEJU.jpg

Very cool, Salento. :good_job: Below, my best ancient relative on MTA's Deep Dive. For him there is a nice description of the grave, and the skeleton seems be in a excellent state of conservation. He has the same yDNA that I have, R1b1a1a2a1b (R-M269>R-L23>R-L51):

https://i.imgur.com/9rzzdxu.png
https://i.imgur.com/TBuY1PU.png
https://i.imgur.com/kim7SfR.png
https://i.imgur.com/noZf64A.png
https://i.imgur.com/FslxcG2.png

Carlos
07-03-20, 15:38
- Floki was the first to head to Iceland to settle! Read the story of his 3 ravens
- The site of Vatnsdalur near Vatnsfjordur has a boat burial from the same time period as Floki's trip - are these your relatives?

Exciting NEW Samples:
- Roman Canterbury! Discover the secrets under a Peugeot Garage
- Imperial Roman Sardinia!
- Carthaginians and Phoenicians - echoes of the greatness of Hannibal
- West African Suriname victims of leprosy - perhaps the famous Dutch Priest Petrus Donders was there to cure! Find out more
- Nuragic Sardinia - Tombs of the Giants
- plus tons of Bronze Age samples and more!


This week I have not obtained any new results.


As one of my main objectives is to discover the arrival of my DNAY to Europe I see that I have not obtained a match with:
Carthaginians and Phoenicians - echoes of the greatness of Hannibal


In chromatic my only value with Carthaginian was with the sample of the Irish Neolithic Ballynahatty 9 top match and it is a sample that has been labeled as Carthaginian so I was thinking that my sister could well be an earlier entry to the Carthaginians in Spain already that with the Carthaginians at the time of Iberia, Roman Empire I have seen that other Spaniards also obtained them since they are samples with different compositions.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0uAp6KGBISI/XlM6TQa1sxI/AAAAAAAAC7k/zo5o2mayJlgfVDrff8O_de4qZL6s_kJ8QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/3219jutlanbellitalybellpolandrosatraciancimerian.j peg

Yellow is the same sample Ballynahatty.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pTq44f1WBQQ/XiRIW_628gI/AAAAAAAACVs/cC60SYEj2W8Fl9fUm_U4LYPapZOJ6wV5ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/NeolithicIrelandBallythany.jpg

Salento
07-03-20, 17:43
My Villa Magna Deep-Dive

but first ... apples and oranges :) :

with an Average Statistical Calculator that has no access to my RawData, I can't compare my Chromosomes with other samples or individuals!
With MTA I can do it!

latest Villa Magna update:
:thinking: R56 rank went from 1st to 4th, wondering if deleting and re-uploading multiple times my raw-data is causing this slippage in rank.

https://i.imgur.com/3fp32th.png
https://i.imgur.com/YCKGYH1.png
https://i.imgur.com/ryFRI0L.png
https://i.imgur.com/rArTv0n.png
https://i.imgur.com/DTiCj3l.png
https://i.imgur.com/D4byYy2.png
https://i.imgur.com/zoVi3x8.png

torzio
07-03-20, 17:52
re-upload

new sample: SZ1 Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD)

(why outlier ???) (No Gender yet)

WoW, the shared DNA ...

https://i.imgur.com/fhu5JeY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9jKSohX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DdBOEJU.jpg


SZ1:
mtDNA: J1b
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2a(Z2123)

my 4th closest


found with SZ1 are all these below


SZ2:
mtDNA: T1a1
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b2a1b1a(L130)

SZ3:
mtDNA: H18
Y-DNA: I2a2a1b2a2(S390)

SZ4:
mtDNA: H1c9
Y-DNA: R1b1a2a1a1b(Z16)

SZ5:
mtDNA: J2b1
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a2a1b(CTS1595)

SZ7:
mtDNA: T2e
Y-DNA: I2a2a1b2a2a2(ZS20)

SZ8:
mtDNA: M5b'c

SZ9:
mtDNA: J1b1a1d

SZ11:
mtDNA: K2a3a
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b2b1a1a1(Z351)

SZ12:
mtDNA: W6
Y-DNA: I2a2a1(CTS9183)

SZ13:
mtDNA: N1b1b1
Y-DNA: I2a2a1b2a2a2(ZS20)

SZ14:
mtDNA: I3
Y-DNA: I2a2a1(CTS9183)

SZ15:
mtDNA: H1c1
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b1a3a(S200)

SZ16:
mtDNA: U4b1b
Y-DNA: R1b1a2a1a1c(Z381)

SZ18:
mtDNA: H13a1a2
Y-DNA: E1b1b1a1b2(CTS2817)

SZ19:
mtDNA: HV9c

SZ22:
mtDNA: N1b1b1
Y-DNA: I2a2a1b2a2a2(ZS20)

SZ23:
mtDNA: H13a1a2
Y-DNA: R1b1a2a1a1c(Z381)

SZ24:
mtDNA: U4b
Y-DNA: I2a2a1(CTS9183)

SZ27B:
mtDNA: N1a1a1a1
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a2(S116)

SZ28:
mtDNA: H3b5

SZ30:
mtDNA: H13a

SZ32:
mtDNA: H74

SZ36:
mtDNA: U4c2a
Y-DNA: T1a1a(PF5620)

SZ37:
mtDNA: H66a
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a2(S116)

SZ38:
mtDNA: HV0

SZ40:
mtDNA: T2

SZ42:
mtDNA: K2a6
Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2a1a2(S116)

SZ43:
mtDNA: H1e
Y-DNA: I2a2a1a2a1a(S391)

SZ45:
mtDNA: J1c
Y-DNA: I1a1b1(L22)

AV1:
mtDNA: X2m'n

AV2:
mtDNA: X2m'n

Carlos
21-03-20, 17:32
My new results this week

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-38GFyUZtMaU/XnWo5By-EzI/AAAAAAAADQ0/l-fl2yH5u9wKDsLrIdoRrO-tJnczZC8QwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Lu%25C3%25ADs16.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xqKfmSKCaKw/XnWo_LzfLqI/AAAAAAAADQ4/lTwGOCbAhgA1grJgZj5qvjpS5HvBYlTmQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singe15.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nwQzqfwcQmc/XnWpC5KruPI/AAAAAAAADQ8/UDehf6wnelgQPYRMN1xqcQtIAlOWruuxgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singen16.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9alYyImaZ7g/XnWpGm99xvI/AAAAAAAADRA/jYqXxQmUbgoat0hz4Mw9wzlJwxnIv_JxgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singen19.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eVNQcmGKp7M/XnWpKrGPPGI/AAAAAAAADRI/vA_F3sI-tiU7Zni1JllwyABTl8xHIG0bgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singen20.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GkyR0UEXmVg/XnWqSnlpfGI/AAAAAAAADRc/7ph8DwUMO_80WdmzKKqwtyUWDHP45z1RwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/medievalLaPalma.jpeg

Northener
21-03-20, 22:22
My new results this week


I'm on board of Floki this week :grin: :wink:


Viking Boat Burial Iceland

VDP-A5 (925 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: H2a2a

Y-DNA Haplogroup:


Genetic Distance: 8.4604
Sample Match! 99% closer than other usersViking Celtic Boat Burial Iceland

VDP-A6 (925 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: H1c3a

Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1a1a1b1a3a


Genetic Distance: 6.1574
Sample Match! 96% closer than other usersViking Gaelic Boat Burial Iceland

VDP-A7 (925 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: H4a1a1

Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1b1a1a2a1a1b


Genetic Distance: 7.5877
Sample Match! 99% closer than other usersViking Norse Iceland

DKS-A1 (935 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: U5a1h

Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1a1a1b1a3


Genetic Distance: 9.3164
Sample Match! 98% closer than other users

Laurent 77
21-03-20, 22:57
Gladiateur nordique-celtique York
6DRIF-18 (250 après JC)

Haplogroupe d'ADNmt: H1bs
Haplogroupe ADN Y: R1b1a2a1a

Match de plongée profonde! 92% plus proche que les autres qui partagent cet échantillon de plongée profonde
Distance génétique: 13.810
Correspondance d'échantillons! 55% plus proche que les autres utilisateurs
Gladiateur celtique York
6DRIF-21 (250 après JC)

Haplogroupe ADNmt: J1c3e2
Haplogroupe ADN Y: R1b1a2a1a2c2

Match de plongée profonde! 97% plus proche que les autres qui partagent cet échantillon de plongée profonde
Distance génétique: 14.294
Sample Match! 46% plus proche que les autres utilisateurs
Celtic Briton Gladiator York
6DRIF-22 (250 après JC)

Haplogroupe d'ADNmt: H
Haplogroupe ADN Y: R1b1a2a1a2b

Match de plongée profonde! 87% plus proche que les autres qui partagent cet échantillon de plongée profonde
Distance génétique: 14,363
Match Match! 54% plus proche que les autres utilisateurs
Celtic Briton Gladiator York
6DRIF-23 (250 après JC)

Haplogroupe d'ADNmt: H6a1b2
Haplogroupe ADN Y: R1b1a2a1a

Distance génétique: 15,658
échantillon de correspondance! 51% plus proche que les autres utilisateurs
Celtic Briton Gladiator York
6DRIF-3 (250 après JC)

Haplogroupe ADNmt: J1b1a1
Haplogroupe ADN Y: R1b1a2a1a1

Distance génétique: 15.728
échantillon de correspondance! 47% plus proche que les autres utilisateurs
Celtic Briton Gladiator York
3DRIF-16 (250 AD)

Haplogroupe d'ADNmt: H6a1a
Haplogroupe ADN Y: R1b1a2a1a1

Match de plongée profonde! 88% plus proche que les autres qui partagent cet échantillon de plongée profonde
Distance génétique: 13,548
Sample Match! 51% plus proche que les autres utilisateurs
Égyptien / Proche-Orient Gladiator York
3DRIF-26 (250 après JC)

Haplogroupe d'ADNmt: H5
Haplogroupe ADN Y: J2

(Vous ne correspondez pas à cet échantillon)

Carlos
22-03-20, 00:21
I'm on board of Floki this week :grin: :wink:


Viking Boat Burial Iceland

VDP-A5 (925 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: H2a2a

Y-DNA Haplogroup:


Genetic Distance: 8.4604
Sample Match! 99% closer than other usersViking Celtic Boat Burial Iceland

VDP-A6 (925 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: H1c3a

Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1a1a1b1a3a


Genetic Distance: 6.1574
Sample Match! 96% closer than other usersViking Gaelic Boat Burial Iceland

VDP-A7 (925 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: H4a1a1

Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1b1a1a2a1a1b


Genetic Distance: 7.5877
Sample Match! 99% closer than other usersViking Norse Iceland

DKS-A1 (935 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: U5a1h

Y-DNA Haplogroup: R1a1a1b1a3


Genetic Distance: 9.3164
Sample Match! 98% closer than other users














God save me

https://www.barcosyatesveleros.com/wp-content/uploads/mareo1.jpg


Since there are so many Vikings, I had some very handsome boys who ate seafood that, apparently, some hicks massacred horribly in a church, according to what they say and others who are half Gaelic, had more but some are disappearing and others arriving as is known from the distance.

Duarte
22-03-20, 02:16
My new results this week

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-38GFyUZtMaU/XnWo5By-EzI/AAAAAAAADQ0/l-fl2yH5u9wKDsLrIdoRrO-tJnczZC8QwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Lu%25C3%25ADs16.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xqKfmSKCaKw/XnWo_LzfLqI/AAAAAAAADQ4/lTwGOCbAhgA1grJgZj5qvjpS5HvBYlTmQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singe15.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nwQzqfwcQmc/XnWpC5KruPI/AAAAAAAADQ8/UDehf6wnelgQPYRMN1xqcQtIAlOWruuxgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singen16.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9alYyImaZ7g/XnWpGm99xvI/AAAAAAAADRA/jYqXxQmUbgoat0hz4Mw9wzlJwxnIv_JxgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singen19.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eVNQcmGKp7M/XnWpKrGPPGI/AAAAAAAADRI/vA_F3sI-tiU7Zni1JllwyABTl8xHIG0bgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Singen20.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GkyR0UEXmVg/XnWqSnlpfGI/AAAAAAAADRc/7ph8DwUMO_80WdmzKKqwtyUWDHP45z1RwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/medievalLaPalma.jpeg

Hello Carlos. I hope you're not mad at me. I have more friends (and vinyl records too) than enemies. But because of the way I act, my enemies are faithful and I am not in the habit of letting my guard down. LOL. I hope to remain on your list of virtual friends because I did not remove you from my virtual list of friends. I salute you and, symbolically, consider this a greeting to all Spanish people in their arduous struggle against the COVID-19 pandemic. Here are some of my recent results obtained after the latest MTA updates. We need a little distraction to ease the chaos. The son of a friend of mine had gone by car to visit his girlfriend in the city of Rio de Janeiro. The car was barred at the fiscal checkpoint that exists on the border of the states of Minas Gerais and Rio de Janeiro and he was forced to return to Belo Horizonte with a reprimand from the police and a fine on his lap.

https://i.imgur.com/cJe2P2s.png
https://i.imgur.com/oFal6Mi.png
https://i.imgur.com/diWOdQH.png
https://i.imgur.com/As9lnyw.png
https://i.imgur.com/iPBf9fW.png
https://i.imgur.com/qBYihL6.png
https://i.imgur.com/FR0FCuR.png
https://i.imgur.com/JrSEZmT.png
https://i.imgur.com/pzqqLHg.png

https://i.imgur.com/wBDr5fZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xH9acdU.png



Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Northener
22-03-20, 15:17
God save me

https://www.barcosyatesveleros.com/wp-content/uploads/mareo1.jpg


Since there are so many Vikings, I had some very handsome boys who ate seafood that, apparently, some hicks massacred horribly in a church, according to what they say and others who are half Gaelic, had more but some are disappearing and others arriving as is known from the distance.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

ROFLOL, I spare the seasick Carlos......

I hoped that I could hide my true identity, but you uncovered me.....
Your closest Ancient populations...


https://mytrueancestry.com/img/DanishViking.jpgViking Danish

https://mytrueancestry.com/img/Lombard.jpgLongobard



Danish VikingsLongobardsVikingsNorwegian VikingsSaxons
Viking Danish + Longobard (1.642)Viking + Saxon (2.049)
Viking + Longobard (2.59)
Viking Norwegian + Saxon (2.665)
Viking Danish + Saxon (2.677)
Viking (4.632)
Viking Norwegian (5.201)
Longobard (6.024)
Viking Danish (6.137)
Saxon (7.037)








And my mother has these result:
High Ranking Birka Shield-maiden

https://mytrueancestry.com/img/BirkaPhoto.jpg


The Birka female Viking warrior was a woman buried in the 10th century in Birka, Sweden and discovered in the 1870s. The grave was assumed to be a "battle hardened man" for 128 years until DNA analysis proved she was actually a high-ranking professional warrior. Shield-maidens are female warriors that take on male roles including wielding weapons and are depicted in many period figures, tapestries and brooches as well as mentioned by the famous Danish historian of the time, Saxo Grammaticus.


Previous (https://mytrueancestry.com/c/main.py#carousel-map-birka2)Next (https://mytrueancestry.com/c/main.py#carousel-map-birka2)

Viking High-Ranking Shieldmaiden

brk581 (950 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: T2b

Y-DNA Haplogroup:


Genetic Distance: 11.908
Sample Match! 96% closer than other users




Yourdna:

On top of that:
https://www.yourdnaportal.com/assets/images/rs4680.jpg


Worrier Versus Warrior



[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]

rs4680GG
People with your genotype fall into the "warrior" category.

SHOW/HIDE REFERENCES




It's inevitable.......

https://www.mupload.nl/img/9crx5w55.15.28.png

There is a Viking in the room.....But please keep it for yourself, because otherwise I get in trouble.:grin:

Maciamo
22-03-20, 15:57
https://i.imgur.com/cJe2P2s.png


Please note that this is not Louis XVI's DNA! He belonged to haplogroup R1b-U106, not G2a. This sample was mistakenly thought to belong to Louis XVI. So this sample is worthless and it is surprising that MyTrueAncestry used it.

Carlos
22-03-20, 18:07
:lmao::lmao::lmao:

ROFLOL, I spare the seasick Carlos......

I hoped that I could hide my true identity, but you uncovered me.....
Your closest Ancient populations...


https://mytrueancestry.com/img/DanishViking.jpgViking Danish

https://mytrueancestry.com/img/Lombard.jpgLongobard



Danish VikingsLongobardsVikingsNorwegian VikingsSaxons
Viking Danish + Longobard (1.642)Viking + Saxon (2.049)
Viking + Longobard (2.59)
Viking Norwegian + Saxon (2.665)
Viking Danish + Saxon (2.677)
Viking (4.632)
Viking Norwegian (5.201)
Longobard (6.024)
Viking Danish (6.137)
Saxon (7.037)








And my mother has these result:
High Ranking Birka Shield-maiden

https://mytrueancestry.com/img/BirkaPhoto.jpg


The Birka female Viking warrior was a woman buried in the 10th century in Birka, Sweden and discovered in the 1870s. The grave was assumed to be a "battle hardened man" for 128 years until DNA analysis proved she was actually a high-ranking professional warrior. Shield-maidens are female warriors that take on male roles including wielding weapons and are depicted in many period figures, tapestries and brooches as well as mentioned by the famous Danish historian of the time, Saxo Grammaticus.


Previous (https://mytrueancestry.com/c/main.py#carousel-map-birka2)Next (https://mytrueancestry.com/c/main.py#carousel-map-birka2)

Viking High-Ranking Shieldmaiden

brk581 (950 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: T2b

Y-DNA Haplogroup:


Genetic Distance: 11.908
Sample Match! 96% closer than other users




Yourdna:

On top of that:
https://www.yourdnaportal.com/assets/images/rs4680.jpg


Worrier Versus Warrior



[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]

rs4680GG
People with your genotype fall into the "warrior" category.

SHOW/HIDE REFERENCES




It's inevitable.......

https://www.mupload.nl/img/9crx5w55.15.28.png

There is a Viking in the room.....But please keep it for yourself, because otherwise I get in trouble.:grin:


Motion sickness

I could actually get over it




rs1195218GG

People with your genotype are more likely to get motion sickness.

SHOW/HIDE REFERENCES


rs9834560CC

People with your genotype are less likely to get motion sickness.

SHOW/HIDE REFERENCES




https://www.yourdnaportal.com/assets/images/rs4680.jpg

rs4680AA
Gene: COMT

People with your genotype fall into the "worrier" category, which is an advantage in memory and attention tasks
"The Warrior gene" versus the "Worrier gene". (AA)(worrier) confers advantage in memory and attention tasks


The one with the mask had it but it's gone.

Had danish viking gone this week and vandal came

Gallo-Illyrian-Visigoths-Etruscans-Iberians

Gallo-Roman + Illyrian (5.991)
Iberian + Illyrian (5.994)
Visigoth + Illyrian (6.582)
Iberian + Gallo-Roman (6.952)
Etruscan + Illyrian (7.765)
Visigoth (8.765)
Gallo-Roman (9.032)
Etruscan (10.31)
Illyrian (10.75)
Iberian (12.19)

Duarte
22-03-20, 18:57
Please note that this is not Louis XVI's DNA! He belonged to haplogroup R1b-U106, not G2a. This sample was mistakenly thought to belong to Louis XVI. So this sample is worthless and it is surprising that MyTrueAncestry used it.

Oh Maciamo. You have just thrown a bucket of cold water in my intention to claim the French throne or at least the possession of the French crown jewels. This was not to be told to anyone. It was a secret that must to be mantained hidden at seven keys. LOL. When I visited the Louvre museum for the last time, luck rewarded me with the fact that the wing where the French crown jewels are on display was open, a rare occurrence. I had the intention going to formally claim ownership of all of these jewels ater MTA displayig my Deep Dive matches with King Louis XVI of French. LOL. Sorry me, it's just a joke. LOL. :laughing::laughing:
Thank you for the intervention and for the information. :good_job:
Greetings.:smile:

HiveMindTerror
02-04-20, 20:31
11923

11924

My results updated and I finally have some close matches, but I have some questions.
I'm ethnic Croat, yet I have the most in common with "Romans". By Romans does it mean Romanized Illyrians/Pannonians/whatever. Because I definitely have no Italian in me, judging by results from every test I've ever taken.
Also no Spanish-Iberian, yet I have a solid chunk of Roman Hispania? Could this be due to migrating tribes? One of my "relatives" from their archive is labelled; Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD). Could they be counting this Slavo-German(?) as Roman Hispanian becuase they were living there at the time, rather than ethnic?
Also I'm surprised with the amount of Scythian I'm getting, wheras my Early Slav percentage is low (~5%). Does this mean I'm related to Steppic peoples, or were these Scythians actually ethnic Slavs that were Scythianized? Same in regards to the Hungarian, were these early Hungarians, at least partly, Magyarized Slavs hence my close relation? Or are people groups simply closest related to their neighbours.
Judging by my K36 I'm generally closest related to Balkan Slavs+Hungarians+Romanians, then to other Slavs and Central Europeans. Less so with Albanians and Greeks, and much less so with Italians and Iberians.
Sorry for all the questions, just curious if anyone can help make more sense of it.
Regards!

torzio
02-04-20, 20:37
11923

11924

My results updated and I finally have some close matches, but I have some questions.
I'm ethnic Croat, yet I have the most in common with "Romans". By Romans does it mean Romanized Illyrians/Pannonians/whatever. Because I definitely have no Italian in me, judging by results from every test I've ever taken.
Also no Spanish-Iberian, yet I have a solid chunk of Roman Hispania? Could this be due to migrating tribes? One of my "relatives" from their archive is labelled; Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD). Could they be counting this Slavo-German(?) as Roman Hispanian becuase they were living there at the time, rather than ethnic?
Also I'm surprised with the amount of Scythian I'm getting, wheras my Early Slav percentage is low (~5%). Does this mean I'm related to Steppic peoples, or were these Scythians actually ethnic Slavs that were Scythianized? Same in regards to the Hungarian, were these early Hungarians, at least partly, Magyarized Slavs hence my close relation? Or are people groups simply closest related to their neighbours.
Judging by my K36 I'm generally closest related to Balkan Slavs+Hungarians+Romanians, then to other Slavs and Central Europeans. Less so with Albanians and Greeks, and much less so with Italians and Iberians.
Sorry for all the questions, just curious if anyone can help make more sense of it.
Regards!

These Scythians they have from moldova area are getae-thracians according to the official paper on these samples

HiveMindTerror
02-04-20, 20:42
These Scythians they have from moldova area are getae-thracians according to the official paper on these samples

That's insane, and I think makes much more sense. I mean a Croatian from Bosnia having heavy steppe ancestry sounds odd, but Dacian and Thracian doesn't seem as far-fetched. I never thought of a possible connection with those two people groups, living in the region that was once Illyria most of us always assume the non-Slav element in us is Illyrian. But maybe not. Could be the Slavs picked up former Dacians and Thracians on their walks south.

Illyri
02-04-20, 22:07
My results updated and I finally have some close matches, but I have some questions.
I'm ethnic Croat, yet I have the most in common with "Romans". By Romans does it mean Romanized Illyrians/Pannonians/whatever. Because I definitely have no Italian in me, judging by results from every test I've ever taken.


I get a huge amount of Roman as well.
One reason could be that other romanized populations are labelled as romans. For example the samples from Szolad. I do not know if you match them ?
Another reason could be the fact that there are much more ancient roman samples tested than ancient samples from the Balkans or Central/Eastern Europe. I guess this disproportion will be corrected with time.
More generally, I am afraid that MTA does not label correctly some of the samples (as Torzio pointed out for those "Scythians").

torzio
02-04-20, 22:12
That's insane, and I think makes much more sense. I mean a Croatian from Bosnia having heavy steppe ancestry sounds odd, but Dacian and Thracian doesn't seem as far-fetched. I never thought of a possible connection with those two people groups, living in the region that was once Illyria most of us always assume the non-Slav element in us is Illyrian. But maybe not. Could be the Slavs picked up former Dacians and Thracians on their walks south.


Getae, an ancient people of Thracian origin, inhabiting the banks of the lower Danube region and nearby plains. First appearing in the 6th century bc, the Getae were subjected to Scythian (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Scythian) influence and were known as expert mounted archers and devotees of the deity Zalmoxis. Although the daughter of their king became the wife of Philip II of Macedon (https://www.britannica.com/place/Macedonia-ancient-kingdom-Europe) in 342 bc, the Macedonians under Philip II’s son Alexander (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Alexander-the-Great) crossed the Danube and burned the Getic capital seven years later. Getic technology was influenced by that of the invading Celts in the 4th and 3rd centuries bc. Under Burebistas (fl. lst century bc), the Getae and nearby Dacians (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dacian) formed a powerful but short-lived state. By the middle of the following century, when the Romans had gained control over the lower Danube region, thousands of Getae were displaced, and, not long thereafter, references to the Getae disappeared from history. Later writers wrongly gave the name Getae to the Goths.The Getae and Dacians were closely related; some historians even suggest that these were names applied to a single people by different observers or at different times. Their culture (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture) is sometimes called Geto-Dacian (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Geto-Dacian).

so they live on the black sea....north of the proper thracians south of them
and the dacians live to the west of these getae ................basically, black sea romania and moldova lands

HiveMindTerror
03-04-20, 04:21
Getae, an ancient people of Thracian origin, inhabiting the banks of the lower Danube region and nearby plains. First appearing in the 6th century bc, the Getae were subjected to Scythian (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Scythian) influence and were known as expert mounted archers and devotees of the deity Zalmoxis. Although the daughter of their king became the wife of Philip II of Macedon (https://www.britannica.com/place/Macedonia-ancient-kingdom-Europe) in 342 bc, the Macedonians under Philip II’s son Alexander (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Alexander-the-Great) crossed the Danube and burned the Getic capital seven years later. Getic technology was influenced by that of the invading Celts in the 4th and 3rd centuries bc. Under Burebistas (fl. lst century bc), the Getae and nearby Dacians (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dacian) formed a powerful but short-lived state. By the middle of the following century, when the Romans had gained control over the lower Danube region, thousands of Getae were displaced, and, not long thereafter, references to the Getae disappeared from history. Later writers wrongly gave the name Getae to the Goths.The Getae and Dacians were closely related; some historians even suggest that these were names applied to a single people by different observers or at different times. Their culture (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture) is sometimes called Geto-Dacian (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Geto-Dacian).

so they live on the black sea....north of the proper thracians south of them
and the dacians live to the west of these getae ................basically, black sea romania and moldova lands

That's incredible. It's also very amazing to me because on almost all my autosomal tests It shows me very closely related to Romanians and Moldovans. As I mentioned my k36 for example. They're some of my highest matches , whereas Greeks and Albanians are much more distant to me.

Carlos
03-04-20, 08:45
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sqpaYG8AXZw/XobVojiwFtI/AAAAAAAADWc/7IbzN-KOGMsDDhHKrdG48gCrk5Z9CX_zwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RosqueteAbril2020.jpg

Neolithic

Proto Gallo
Proto Etruscan
Proto Iberian
Proto Vascones
Proto Latin
Proto Celt

Some of my new results from this week:

10. Late Copper Age Italy (2600 BC) ..... 10.49 - 9314_Oss
99. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 15.97 - MX256
111. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 16.53 - MX283
112. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 16.55 - MX254_2
140. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 17.55 - MX258
150. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 17.85 - MX252
181. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 19.06 - MX279
189. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 19.49 - MX286

From here I ask that there be the possibility of changing the photograph of the donut since I am an extremely discreet person and jealous of my intimacy and I have had to blur the image.

HiveMindTerror
03-04-20, 12:34
I get a huge amount of Roman as well.
One reason could be that other romanized populations are labelled as romans. For example the samples from Szolad. I do not know if you match them ?
Another reason could be the fact that there are much more ancient roman samples tested than ancient samples from the Balkans or Central/Eastern Europe. I guess this disproportion will be corrected with time.
More generally, I am afraid that MTA does not label correctly some of the samples (as Torzio pointed out for those "Scythians").

Yes I do have matches to the Szolad Romans

Illyri
03-04-20, 14:05
Yes I do have matches to the Szolad Romans

That might be the reason. Either those samples were not exclusively roman (autosomally speaking) or they share some older admixture with Balkanic antic peoples (which is labelled Roman given the limited number of balkanic samples). But this is just a hypothesis.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

torzio
04-04-20, 03:23
my breakdown by era

Early bronze age only

76.5% Illyrian
9.4% Etruscan
9.3% Proto-Visigoth ...................what the crap is this ?
3.6% Proto-Frank ................another ?

I think MyTruAncestry has reached its level of clarity and now is just throwing any rubbish in

HiveMindTerror
04-04-20, 05:53
my breakdown by era

Early bronze age only

76.5% Illyrian
9.4% Etruscan
9.3% Proto-Visigoth ...................what the crap is this ?
3.6% Proto-Frank ................another ?

I think MyTruAncestry has reached its level of clarity and now is just throwing any rubbish in

To be honest that's how most of it feels

Aspar
04-04-20, 11:51
So close to a Mycenaean?
It looks bogus...

https://i.postimg.cc/3J3LkS7V/Screenshot-20200404-102837-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9zNPSBDY)
https://i.postimg.cc/vmp4KN3m/Screenshot-20200404-102901-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://postimg.cc/cKB1gXqq)
https://i.postimg.cc/zXbXsjHb/Screenshot-20200404-102913-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://postimg.cc/HVmg5b2d)

If this is real I don't think this is actually a Mycenaean ancestry but probably pre-Greek Pelasgian ancestry that was shared among the Thracians, Illyrians and Greeks.

https://i.postimg.cc/pLVx2JpJ/Screenshot-20200404-102956-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ZCQXH3PW)
https://i.postimg.cc/DzZC6Bz0/Screenshot-20200404-103022-Samsung-Internet.jpg (https://postimg.cc/mPvN23CW)img upload (https://postimages.org/)

And why there are no Slavic samples here at all?
We have enough medieval Slavic samples from Czechia, Hungary as well as Russia.

Stuvanè
04-04-20, 13:17
I simply believe that MTA has always been a little hasty and approximate in assigning the labels to its samples, which initially were mostly of historical age (ancient, late ancient and medieval) and now with this new tool it's correcting the shooting, but it still doesn't know which correct nomenclatures to use.
So it makes no sense in some cases to speak of Visigoths or Franks in the Bronze Age, therefore they are renamed proto-Visigoths, proto-Franks, as their predecessors

Angela
04-04-20, 19:49
There's been some slight adjustment to one of my tables. As for the rest, it's basically the same. My closeness to modern Italian populations is still 6 and 7, which is terrible, and very close to results using Eurogenes K13 and K15, so I tend to think, as interesting as this was, that for me the Dodecad analyses, where in some calculators I can get a 2 or a 3 to modern Italians, are more valuable for me.

Roman (3.568)
Roman + Illyrian (4.064)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (4.779)
Al-Andalus + Roman (5.437)
Roman Hispania + Roman (7.261)
Roman Hispania + Illyrian (8.604)
Gallo-Roman (9.491)
Illyrian (10.35)
Roman Hispania (14.0)
Al-Andalus (14.42)

torzio
04-04-20, 22:05
mine ................. new one is the bottom Roman Hispania

Roman + Illyrian (3.211)
Gallo-Roman + Roman (6.381)
Gaul + Roman (6.586)
Gaul + Gallo-Roman (7.254)
Gallo-Roman (7.332)
Illyrian (8.937)
Roman (9.695)
Gaul (11.97)
Roman Hispania (13.23)

New Englander
05-04-20, 22:48
Here are my coins I guess Ill call them...

Salento
06-04-20, 01:55
Migrated post: my SZ40 & SZ32 deep dive



Reload ... got 2 new deep dive Trophy Cups :grin:

SZ40 & SZ32


https://i.imgur.com/mVGpO0F.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZdCGMeZ.jpg

Stuvanè
06-04-20, 14:58
In the end my first medal arrived.
It's never too late ;)



https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92254849_10223424836708491_3674360189768695808_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=-Y3uEzOQfEQAX8iLAFg&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=77fdbfd71e1f6f0f650e205af0647680&oe=5EAEF2B2

Duarte
06-04-20, 16:19
MTA - Latest update - My closest ancient populations and my closest archeogenetic correspondences.

https://i.imgur.com/M29ZnbZ.png

https://i.imgur.com/sW00kCH.png


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

Salento
06-04-20, 16:19
In the end my first medal arrived.
It's never too late ;)

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92254849_10223424836708491_3674360189768695808_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=-Y3uEzOQfEQAX8iLAFg&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=77fdbfd71e1f6f0f650e205af0647680&oe=5EAEF2B2
Congrats, I'm sure that SZ32 was a Pezzo di 90 in his day :)

We both got an important piece of this sample, although in different chromosomes.


https://i.imgur.com/TZlTNjs.jpg

Duarte
06-04-20, 16:21
MTA Latest update - My awarded deep dive ancient relatives and my top 10 archeogenetic matches by era.

https://i.imgur.com/6q59yCq.png

https://i.imgur.com/mXKgzfx.png


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

Carlos
07-04-20, 14:29
My brand new 50 more samples, some are recovered and some are new.


201. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 19.97 - CL102 - ?
Top
30 % match vs all users

202. Germanic Mixed Tribe (505 AD) ..... 19.97 - AED513 - ?
Top
42 % match vs all users

203. Greco-Era Emporion (375 BC) ..... 19.98 - I8210 -
Top
91 % match vs all users

204. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 20.05 - MX275
Top
49 % match vs all users

205. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 20.25 - I3582 -
Top
91 % match vs all users

206. Immigrant Medieval Denmark (1305 AD) ..... 20.28 - G274 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

207. Hungarian Conqueror Karos II (900 AD) ..... 20.47 - K2per36_GE -
Top
96 % match vs all users

208. Medieval La Palma Sardinia (941 AD) ..... 20.49 - I12221
Top
89 % match vs all users

209. Celtiberian Northern Spain (350 BC) ..... 20.54 - I3757 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

210. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 20.6 - V4P -
Top
41 % match vs all users

211. Niedertiefenbach Western Germany (3200 BC) ..... 20.61 - Niedertiefenbach33 - ?
Top
99 % match vs all users

212. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas I (1500 BC) ..... 20.68 - I3490 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

213. Bronze Age Amesbury (1450 BC) ..... 20.68 - I2458 -
Top
38 % match vs all users

214. Medieval Tyrolian (580 AD) ..... 20.72 - CL53 -
Top
30 % match vs all users

215. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 20.73 - MX259
Top
36 % match vs all users

216. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 20.74 - I12162 -
Top
33 % match vs all users

217. Sicily Buffa Early Bronze Age (2191 BC) ..... 20.75 - I11443
Top
34 % match vs all users

218. Nazari Period Andalusia (1400 AD) ..... 20.86 - I8147 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

219. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 20.87 - SZ32 - ?
Top
87 % match vs all users

220. Bronze Age Sorsum Germany (3220 BC) ..... 20.95 - Sorsum -
Top
99 % match vs all users

221. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 21.0 - MX280
Top
37 % match vs all users

222. Carthago Outlier San Ercolano (500 AD) ..... 21.0 - R121 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

223. Iron Age Catalan (600 BC) ..... 21.04 - I12642 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

224. Iberia Bronze Age (1600 BC) ..... 21.1 - ATP9 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

225. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1440 AD) ..... 21.18 - R1219 -
Top
38 % match vs all users

226. Portugal Middle Bronze Age (1580 BC) ..... 21.22 - TV32032 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

227. Oxford Infirmiary (1790 AD) ..... 21.25 - CSD - ?
Top
44 % match vs all users

228. Celtic Medieval Denmark Ribe (1305 AD) ..... 21.39 - G397 -
Top
45 % match vs all users

229. Niedertiefenbach Western Germany (3200 BC) ..... 21.41 - Niedertiefenbach21 - ?
Top
99 % match vs all users

230. Pre-Roman Ullastret Girona (280 BC) ..... 21.43 - I3323 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

231. High Status Bronze Age Wehringen (1865 BC) ..... 21.48 - WEHR_1586 -
Top
71 % match vs all users

232. Bell Beaker Scotland (2145 BC) ..... 21.51 - I5471 -
Top
32 % match vs all users

233. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) ..... 21.51 - I3576 -
Top
89 % match vs all users

234. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) ..... 21.6 - SZ23 -
Top
31 % match vs all users

235. Bell Beaker France (2300 BC) ..... 21.61 - I1388 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

236. North Alpine Bronze Age (1755 BC) ..... 21.63 - AITI_95 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

237. Niedertiefenbach Western Germany (3200 BC) ..... 21.63 - Niedertiefenbach10 - ?
Top
99 % match vs all users

238. Greuthungi / Ostrogoth (310 AD) ..... 21.64 - MJ37 -
Top
37 % match vs all users

239. Gaelic Settler Viking Iceland (935 AD) ..... 21.66 - ORE-A1 -
Top
36 % match vs all users

240. Celtic-Saxon Hinxton (700 AD) ..... 21.66 - HinxtonO2 -
Top
36 % match vs all users

241. Morisco Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 21.79 - I7424 -
Top
87 % match vs all users

242. Celtic Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 21.86 - 3DRIF-16 -
Top
33 % match vs all users

243. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 21.96 - I3581 -
Top
90 % match vs all users

244. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 22.0 - I3807 -
Top
94 % match vs all users

245. Central Roman Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 22.03 - R32 -
Top
90 % match vs all users

246. Justinian Plague Victim (760 AD) ..... 22.06 - LSD021 - ?
Top
87 % match vs all users

247. Phoenician Cas Moli Ibiza (270 BC) ..... 22.1 - MS10614 - ?
Top
97 % match vs all users

248. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 22.11 - LM_213_T -
Top
99 % match vs all users

249. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 22.18 - V1P -
Top
93 % match vs all users

250. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 22.29 - SZ43 -
Top
83 % match vs all users

torzio
07-04-20, 21:04
In the end my first medal arrived.
It's never too late ;)



https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/92254849_10223424836708491_3674360189768695808_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=-Y3uEzOQfEQAX8iLAFg&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=77fdbfd71e1f6f0f650e205af0647680&oe=5EAEF2B2

congratulations

I have 5 gold ......sound like the Olympics

Medieval Piedmont


580 AD

CL57

mtDNA: H24aY-DNA: R1b1a2a1a

.................................................. ..................



Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy

1355 AD

R52

mtDNA: T1a1Y-DNA: G2a2a1a2 ..................my grandfather mtdna was T1a1e


.................................................. .....


Illyrian / Dalmatian


1600 BC

I4331

mtDNA: I1a1Y-DNA: J2b2a


.................................................. .


Scythian Southern Moldova

290 BC

scy305

mtDNA: U5a2Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2


................................................


Central Roman


590 AD

SZ32

mtDNA: H74

Duarte
10-04-20, 05:29
My results - last update MTA - Ancient Sample Breakdown:

https://i.imgur.com/PWU6RzX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/S2vjzxK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oPfkhDL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gP3tOFd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1vauEOv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TO62oJy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/T5AOuBm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lnv2Knn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NPI1tQI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/plisJMz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ILzQvKS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Xvxspqj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/agkuSAr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hWqkMP2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ITh0U0j.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/00zaB9M.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uGUxoUb.jpg

My results - last update MTA - Ancient Sample Breakdown By Era - Roman Age:

https://i.imgur.com/pHoG2Ep.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/d4yIU7s.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ArkvlnC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/U345ngc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VXBg6zR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/runiJx7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VO19kSN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BbBCm7z.jpg


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

Palermo Trapani
10-04-20, 22:51
Duarte: Nice presentation of results. Well done.

Duarte
10-04-20, 23:30
Duarte: Nice presentation of results. Well done.

Thank you very much @Palermo Trapani. Happy Easter to you and all your family.

torzio
11-04-20, 01:15
What is the new chat groups about ?

Everything changed in my matches and maps now

Unsure if everything is OK ....or I need to reload everything from scratch

Palermo Trapani
11-04-20, 03:36
Thank you very much @Palermo Trapani. Happy Easter to you and all your family.

The way this is going I may go on line and find a Liturgy in Latin, or least Chanting the Nicene Creed in Latin! Go ole school praying.

Anyway, same to you and your family.

Duarte
14-04-20, 04:34
MTA - Breakdown By Era - Iron Age

https://i.imgur.com/N9gNpOK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WaRgofZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0u3yV6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DLME0DT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bNWg3Qy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tT1DBWx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uU811oy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RL6QJy1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9chtuNO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dGQKDOy.jpg


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

Carlos
14-04-20, 11:49
Kit: Medieval Tyrolian (SZ18)


Outlier Samples
88. Germanic Medieval Duomo San Nicola Sardinia (1500 AD) ..... 14.98 - SNN001
141. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 16.33 - I2515
162. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 16.85 - I12516
179. Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 17.35 - I7498 -
183. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 17.39 - V11P -
184. Nordic Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 17.47 - G53
186. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital (500 AD) ..... 17.48 - R36 -
187. Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 17.52 - I12647 -
198. Danish-Celtic Medieval Denmark (1270 AD) ..... 17.72 - G712 -
200. Roman Villa Granada Spain (300 AD) ..... 17.76 - I4055 -
203. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 17.83 - SZ28 - ?
221. Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 18.26 - R105 -
228. Lugii Tribe Iron Age Maslomecz (300 AD) ..... 18.36 - PCA89_Mas2 - ?
229. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 18.36 - scy192 -
238. Swede Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 18.54 - G208 -
243. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 18.65 - R1 -
246. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 18.73 - scy305 -


Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...(Smaller numbers mean closer matches to you)Info (https://mytrueancestry.com/c/main.py#)
1. Franco Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1215 AD) ..... 6.301 - R62 -
Top
99 % match vs all users
2. Visigoth Frankish Girona (550 AD) ..... 6.357 - I12032 -
Top
97 % match vs all users
3. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 7.9 - R61 -
Top
99 % match vs all users
4. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 8.137 - CL47b
Top
98 % match vs all users
5. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 9.018 - CL63 -
Top
94 % match vs all users
6. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 9.025 - R1221 -
Top
99 % match vs all users
7. Sicily Buffa Early Bronze Age (2191 BC) ..... 9.088 - I11443
Top
98 % match vs all users
8. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 9.142 - CL47 - ?
Top
96 % match vs all users
9. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 9.224 - CL102 - ?
Top
94 % match vs all users
10. Frankish-Gallic Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 9.233 - SZ27
Top
98 % match vs all users
11. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 9.29 - scy311 -
Top
96 % match vs all users
12. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) ..... 9.371 - DA199 -
Top
98 % match vs all users
13. Jean-Paul Marat Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 9.427 - Marat -
Top
99 % match vs all users
14. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 9.508 - OBS116 - ?
Top
98 % match vs all users
15. Germanic Lombard Szolad (590 AD) ..... 9.54 - SZ3 -
Top
89 % match vs all users
16. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) ..... 9.763 - SZ23 -
Top
60 % match vs all users
17. Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 9.791 - R108 -
Top
98 % match vs all users
18. Medieval France Saint-Laurent-de-la-Cabrerisse (1348 AD) ..... 10.16 - SLC1006 - ?
Top
99 % match vs all users
19. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) ..... 10.18 - SZ38 - ?
Top
60 % match vs all users
20. North Alpine Bronze Age (1815 BC) ..... 10.35 - AITI_72 -
Top
99 % match vs all users
21. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 10.39 - I12163 -
Top
91 % match vs all users
22. Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 10.7 - G24 -
Top
63 % match vs all users
23. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 10.93 - I12162 -
Top
57 % match vs all users
24. Roman Cancelleria Basilica (1090 AD) ..... 11.0 - R1224 -
Top
98 % match vs all users
25. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 11.12 - R55 -
Top
97 % match vs all users
26. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 11.14 - SZ45 -
Top
93 % match vs all users
27. Germanic Mixed Tribe (505 AD) ..... 11.34 - AED513 - ?
Top
99 % match vs all users
28. Frankish Lombard (580 AD) ..... 11.41 - CL49 -
Top
99 % match vs all users
29. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 11.62 - LM_306_T -
Top
80 % match vs all users
30. North Alpine Bronze Age (1790 BC) ..... 11.64 - AITI_78 -
Top
89 % match vs all users
31. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 11.64 - LM_403_T -
Top
99 % match vs all users
32. Greuthungi / Ostrogoth (310 AD) ..... 11.88 - MJ37 -
Top
96 % match vs all users
33. Czech Velke Prilepy (2050 BC) ..... 11.92 - Rise577 -
Top
57 % match vs all users
34. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 11.93 - MX254_2
Top
99 % match vs all users
35. North Alpine Bronze Age (1794 BC) ..... 12.06 - AITI_43 -
Top
98 % match vs all users
36. Medieval Tyrolian (580 AD) ..... 12.18 - CL53 -
Top
88 % match vs all users
37. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 12.23 - MX279
Top
78 % match vs all users
38. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) ..... 12.23 - AED_1108 -
Top
92 % match vs all users
39. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 12.24 - R1220 -
Top
86 % match vs all users
40. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 12.26 - LM_406_T -
Top
97 % match vs all users
41. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 12.33 - MX280
Top
57 % match vs all users
42. Bell Beaker Scotland (2145 BC) ..... 12.37 - I5471 -
Top
48 % match vs all users
43. Medieval Piedmont (580 AD) ..... 12.51 - CL57 -
Top
92 % match vs all users
44. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 12.59 - I12514 -
Top
96 % match vs all users
45. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) ..... 12.92 - GTE-A1 -
Top
53 % match vs all users
46. Scythian Outlier Hungary (550 BC) ..... 12.92 - DA195 -
Top
99 % match vs all users
47. Alemannic Bavaria (450 AD) ..... 12.98 - BIM_33 -
Top
53 % match vs all users
48. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 13.01 - CL94 -
Top
93 % match vs all users
49. Saxon Hinxton (720 AD) ..... 13.03 - HinxtonO1 -
Top
45 % match vs all users
50. Medieval Netherlands Plague II (1360 AD) ..... 13.14 - Ber45 - ?
Top
46 % match vs all users
51. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 13.14 - SZ5 -
Top
83 % match vs all users
52. Bronze Age Amesbury (1450 BC) ..... 13.23 - I2458 -
Top
50 % match vs all users
53. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 13.26 - MX252
Top
75 % match vs all users
54. Rugii Tribe Oder-Vistula (135 AD) ..... 13.36 - PCA36 - ?
Top
89 % match vs all users
55. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 13.46 - I4331 -
Top
95 % match vs all users
56. Alemannic Bavaria (450 AD) ..... 13.47 - BIM33
Top
93 % match vs all users
57. Viking Saxon Iceland (1104 AD) ..... 13.65 - TSK-A26 -
Top
49 % match vs all users
58. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 13.69 - SZ14 -
Top
48 % match vs all users
59. Bell Beaker England (2150 BC) ..... 13.7 - I1767 -
Top
45 % match vs all users
60. Western Scythian Hungary (550 BC) ..... 13.72 - DA194 -
Top
60 % match vs all users
61. Germanic Tribe Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 13.74 - R106 -
Top
71 % match vs all users
62. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 13.81 - MX259
Top
49 % match vs all users
63. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 13.84 - V4P -
Top
87 % match vs all users
64. Germanic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 13.85 - SZ42 -
Top
44 % match vs all users
65. Bell Beaker Southern France (2050 BC) ..... 13.86 - I3875 -
Top
50 % match vs all users
66. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1440 AD) ..... 13.89 - R1219 -
Top
63 % match vs all users
67. Celtic-Saxon Hinxton Iron Age (67 BC) ..... 14.03 - HI1 -
Top
44 % match vs all users
68. Late Iron Age Linton Cambridgeshire (205 BC) ..... 14.23 - Linton -
Top
46 % match vs all users
69. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 14.28 - V2P -
Top
84 % match vs all users
70. Bronze Age Dagger Koenigsbrunn (2046 BC) ..... 14.29 - OBKR_80 -
Top
47 % match vs all users
71. Saxon Settler Viking Iceland (935 AD) ..... 14.34 - GRS-A1 -
Top
51 % match vs all users
72. Bronze Age Vatya Pannonia (1600 BC) ..... 14.38 - Rise480 -
Top
96 % match vs all users
73. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 14.42 - MX286
Top
92 % match vs all users
74. Late Medieval Icelandic Murderer (1678 AD) ..... 14.44 - KOV-A2 -
Top
46 % match vs all users
75. Celtic Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 14.49 - 6DRIF-22 -
Top
53 % match vs all users
76. Post Viking Denmark Odense (1250 AD) ..... 14.51 - G48 -
Top
43 % match vs all users
77. Celtic Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 14.53 - 3DRIF-16 -
Top
46 % match vs all users
78. Gaelic Settler Viking Iceland (935 AD) ..... 14.55 - ORE-A1 -
Top
49 % match vs all users
79. Celto-Germanic Medieval Denmark (1270 AD) ..... 14.55 - G21 -
Top
46 % match vs all users
80. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 14.57 - R33 -
Top
95 % match vs all users
81. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.59 - I4332 -
Top
95 % match vs all users
82. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 14.68 - I12648 -
Top
58 % match vs all users
83. Roman-Era Empuries (47 BC) ..... 14.73 - I10866 -
Top
94 % match vs all users
84. Roman Soldier Germany (300 AD) ..... 14.76 - FN_2
Top
97 % match vs all users
85. Anglo Saxon (780 AD) ..... 14.8 - Hinxton HS3 -
Top
45 % match vs all users
86. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 14.88 - I3313 -
Top
91 % match vs all users
87. Bell Beaker Poland (2500 BC) ..... 14.97 - I4251 -
Top
55 % match vs all users
88. Germanic Medieval Duomo San Nicola Sardinia (1500 AD) ..... 14.98 - SNN001
Top
92 % match vs all users
89. Celtic-Mix Visigoth Girona Spain (550 AD) ..... 14.99 - I12164 -
Top
78 % match vs all users
90. Medieval Villa Magna Italy (990 AD) ..... 15.01 - R63 -
Top
96 % match vs all users
91. Germanic Tribe Aargau Switzerland (100 BC) ..... 15.03 - MX190
Top
45 % match vs all users
92. Bronze Age Haunstetten Germany (1966 BC) ..... 15.04 - POST_28 -
Top
87 % match vs all users
93. Bronze Age Scotland (1450 BC) ..... 15.04 - I2653 -
Top
49 % match vs all users
94. Bell Beaker Scotland (2100 BC) ..... 15.08 - I2568 -
Top
46 % match vs all users
95. Celt Hinxton Iron Age (45 BC) ..... 15.13 - HI2 -
Top
45 % match vs all users
96. North Alpine Bronze Age (1752 BC) ..... 15.21 - AITI_120 -
Top
80 % match vs all users
97. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) ..... 15.22 - I12034 -
Top
95 % match vs all users
98. Celtoiberian Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) ..... 15.23 - R116 -
Top
95 % match vs all users
99. North Alpine Bronze Age (1788 BC) ..... 15.27 - AITI_40 -
Top
83 % match vs all users
100. High Status Male Haunstetten (2059 BC) ..... 15.29 - POST_44 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

torzio
14-04-20, 19:41
my father first ancient match has changed ..............from scythian sample to


E09538=UNTA58_68Sk1
mtDNA: J1c
Y-DNA: G2a2a1a2a1a


from this paper
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/135962v1

Sample found nears Augsburg southern-germany



my oldest is the same

34. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) ..... 14.31 - I3499 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

Salento
16-04-20, 04:23
Ancient Ancestry Timelapse map:

https://i.imgur.com/ed9l5DJ.jpg
... Medieval Row time is out of whack, my bad :)

and just because ... I like it :grin: Early Roman Imperial Period:
https://i.imgur.com/jehyv4Q.jpg

Medieval Age
https://i.imgur.com/T01Itle.jpg

Duarte
16-04-20, 15:51
Kit: Medieval Tyrolian (SZ18)


Outlier Samples
88. Germanic Medieval Duomo San Nicola Sardinia (1500 AD) ..... 14.98 - SNN001
141. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 16.33 - I2515
162. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 16.85 - I12516
179. Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 17.35 - I7498 -
183. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 17.39 - V11P -
184. Nordic Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 17.47 - G53
186. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital (500 AD) ..... 17.48 - R36 -
187. Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 17.52 - I12647 -
198. Danish-Celtic Medieval Denmark (1270 AD) ..... 17.72 - G712 -
200. Roman Villa Granada Spain (300 AD) ..... 17.76 - I4055 -
203. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 17.83 - SZ28 - ?
221. Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 18.26 - R105 -
228. Lugii Tribe Iron Age Maslomecz (300 AD) ..... 18.36 - PCA89_Mas2 - ?
229. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 18.36 - scy192 -
238. Swede Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 18.54 - G208 -
243. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 18.65 - R1 -
246. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 18.73 - scy305 -


Your closest Archaeogenetic matches...

(Smaller numbers mean closer matches to you)Info (https://mytrueancestry.com/c/main.py#)


1. Franco Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1215 AD) ..... 6.301 - R62 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
2. Visigoth Frankish Girona (550 AD) ..... 6.357 - I12032 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users
3. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 7.9 - R61 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
4. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 8.137 - CL47b
Top
98 %
match vs all users
5. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 9.018 - CL63 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users
6. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 9.025 - R1221 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
7. Sicily Buffa Early Bronze Age (2191 BC) ..... 9.088 - I11443
Top
98 %
match vs all users
8. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 9.142 - CL47 - ?
Top
96 %
match vs all users
9. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 9.224 - CL102 - ?
Top
94 %
match vs all users
10. Frankish-Gallic Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 9.233 - SZ27
Top
98 %
match vs all users
11. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 9.29 - scy311 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users
12. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) ..... 9.371 - DA199 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users
13. Jean-Paul Marat Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 9.427 - Marat -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
14. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 9.508 - OBS116 - ?
Top
98 %
match vs all users
15. Germanic Lombard Szolad (590 AD) ..... 9.54 - SZ3 -
Top
89 %
match vs all users
16. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) ..... 9.763 - SZ23 -
Top
60 %
match vs all users
17. Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 9.791 - R108 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users
18. Medieval France Saint-Laurent-de-la-Cabrerisse (1348 AD) ..... 10.16 - SLC1006 - ?
Top
99 %
match vs all users
19. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) ..... 10.18 - SZ38 - ?
Top
60 %
match vs all users
20. North Alpine Bronze Age (1815 BC) ..... 10.35 - AITI_72 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
21. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 10.39 - I12163 -
Top
91 %
match vs all users
22. Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 10.7 - G24 -
Top
63 %
match vs all users
23. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 10.93 - I12162 -
Top
57 %
match vs all users
24. Roman Cancelleria Basilica (1090 AD) ..... 11.0 - R1224 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users
25. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 11.12 - R55 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users
26. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 11.14 - SZ45 -
Top
93 %
match vs all users
27. Germanic Mixed Tribe (505 AD) ..... 11.34 - AED513 - ?
Top
99 %
match vs all users
28. Frankish Lombard (580 AD) ..... 11.41 - CL49 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
29. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 11.62 - LM_306_T -
Top
80 %
match vs all users
30. North Alpine Bronze Age (1790 BC) ..... 11.64 - AITI_78 -
Top
89 %
match vs all users
31. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 11.64 - LM_403_T -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
32. Greuthungi / Ostrogoth (310 AD) ..... 11.88 - MJ37 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users
33. Czech Velke Prilepy (2050 BC) ..... 11.92 - Rise577 -
Top
57 %
match vs all users
34. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 11.93 - MX254_2
Top
99 %
match vs all users
35. North Alpine Bronze Age (1794 BC) ..... 12.06 - AITI_43 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users
36. Medieval Tyrolian (580 AD) ..... 12.18 - CL53 -
Top
88 %
match vs all users
37. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 12.23 - MX279
Top
78 %
match vs all users
38. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) ..... 12.23 - AED_1108 -
Top
92 %
match vs all users
39. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 12.24 - R1220 -
Top
86 %
match vs all users
40. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 12.26 - LM_406_T -
Top
97 %
match vs all users
41. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 12.33 - MX280
Top
57 %
match vs all users
42. Bell Beaker Scotland (2145 BC) ..... 12.37 - I5471 -
Top
48 %
match vs all users
43. Medieval Piedmont (580 AD) ..... 12.51 - CL57 -
Top
92 %
match vs all users
44. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 12.59 - I12514 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users
45. Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland (935 AD) ..... 12.92 - GTE-A1 -
Top
53 %
match vs all users
46. Scythian Outlier Hungary (550 BC) ..... 12.92 - DA195 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users
47. Alemannic Bavaria (450 AD) ..... 12.98 - BIM_33 -
Top
53 %
match vs all users
48. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 13.01 - CL94 -
Top
93 %
match vs all users
49. Saxon Hinxton (720 AD) ..... 13.03 - HinxtonO1 -
Top
45 %
match vs all users
50. Medieval Netherlands Plague II (1360 AD) ..... 13.14 - Ber45 - ?
Top
46 %
match vs all users
51. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 13.14 - SZ5 -
Top
83 %
match vs all users
52. Bronze Age Amesbury (1450 BC) ..... 13.23 - I2458 -
Top
50 %
match vs all users
53. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 13.26 - MX252
Top
75 %
match vs all users
54. Rugii Tribe Oder-Vistula (135 AD) ..... 13.36 - PCA36 - ?
Top
89 %
match vs all users
55. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 13.46 - I4331 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users
56. Alemannic Bavaria (450 AD) ..... 13.47 - BIM33
Top
93 %
match vs all users
57. Viking Saxon Iceland (1104 AD) ..... 13.65 - TSK-A26 -
Top
49 %
match vs all users
58. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 13.69 - SZ14 -
Top
48 %
match vs all users
59. Bell Beaker England (2150 BC) ..... 13.7 - I1767 -
Top
45 %
match vs all users
60. Western Scythian Hungary (550 BC) ..... 13.72 - DA194 -
Top
60 %
match vs all users
61. Germanic Tribe Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 13.74 - R106 -
Top
71 %
match vs all users
62. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 13.81 - MX259
Top
49 %
match vs all users
63. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 13.84 - V4P -
Top
87 %
match vs all users
64. Germanic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 13.85 - SZ42 -
Top
44 %
match vs all users
65. Bell Beaker Southern France (2050 BC) ..... 13.86 - I3875 -
Top
50 %
match vs all users
66. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1440 AD) ..... 13.89 - R1219 -
Top
63 %
match vs all users
67. Celtic-Saxon Hinxton Iron Age (67 BC) ..... 14.03 - HI1 -
Top
44 %
match vs all users
68. Late Iron Age Linton Cambridgeshire (205 BC) ..... 14.23 - Linton -
Top
46 %
match vs all users
69. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) ..... 14.28 - V2P -
Top
84 %
match vs all users
70. Bronze Age Dagger Koenigsbrunn (2046 BC) ..... 14.29 - OBKR_80 -
Top
47 %
match vs all users
71. Saxon Settler Viking Iceland (935 AD) ..... 14.34 - GRS-A1 -
Top
51 %
match vs all users
72. Bronze Age Vatya Pannonia (1600 BC) ..... 14.38 - Rise480 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users
73. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 14.42 - MX286
Top
92 %
match vs all users
74. Late Medieval Icelandic Murderer (1678 AD) ..... 14.44 - KOV-A2 -
Top
46 %
match vs all users
75. Celtic Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 14.49 - 6DRIF-22 -
Top
53 %
match vs all users
76. Post Viking Denmark Odense (1250 AD) ..... 14.51 - G48 -
Top
43 %
match vs all users
77. Celtic Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 14.53 - 3DRIF-16 -
Top
46 %
match vs all users
78. Gaelic Settler Viking Iceland (935 AD) ..... 14.55 - ORE-A1 -
Top
49 %
match vs all users
79. Celto-Germanic Medieval Denmark (1270 AD) ..... 14.55 - G21 -
Top
46 %
match vs all users
80. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 14.57 - R33 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users
81. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.59 - I4332 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users
82. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 14.68 - I12648 -
Top
58 %
match vs all users
83. Roman-Era Empuries (47 BC) ..... 14.73 - I10866 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users
84. Roman Soldier Germany (300 AD) ..... 14.76 - FN_2
Top
97 %
match vs all users
85. Anglo Saxon (780 AD) ..... 14.8 - Hinxton HS3 -
Top
45 %
match vs all users
86. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 14.88 - I3313 -
Top
91 %
match vs all users
87. Bell Beaker Poland (2500 BC) ..... 14.97 - I4251 -
Top
55 %
match vs all users
88. Germanic Medieval Duomo San Nicola Sardinia (1500 AD) ..... 14.98 - SNN001
Top
92 %
match vs all users
89. Celtic-Mix Visigoth Girona Spain (550 AD) ..... 14.99 - I12164 -
Top
78 %
match vs all users
90. Medieval Villa Magna Italy (990 AD) ..... 15.01 - R63 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users
91. Germanic Tribe Aargau Switzerland (100 BC) ..... 15.03 - MX190
Top
45 %
match vs all users
92. Bronze Age Haunstetten Germany (1966 BC) ..... 15.04 - POST_28 -
Top
87 %
match vs all users
93. Bronze Age Scotland (1450 BC) ..... 15.04 - I2653 -
Top
49 %
match vs all users
94. Bell Beaker Scotland (2100 BC) ..... 15.08 - I2568 -
Top
46 %
match vs all users
95. Celt Hinxton Iron Age (45 BC) ..... 15.13 - HI2 -
Top
45 %
match vs all users
96. North Alpine Bronze Age (1752 BC) ..... 15.21 - AITI_120 -
Top
80 %
match vs all users
97. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) ..... 15.22 - I12034 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users
98. Celtoiberian Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) ..... 15.23 - R116 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users
99. North Alpine Bronze Age (1788 BC) ..... 15.27 - AITI_40 -
Top
83 %
match vs all users
100. High Status Male Haunstetten (2059 BC) ..... 15.29 - POST_44 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users


my father first ancient match has changed ..............from scythian sample to


E09538=UNTA58_68Sk1
mtDNA: J1c
Y-DNA: G2a2a1a2a1a


from this paper
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/135962v1

Sample found nears Augsburg southern-germany



my oldest is the same

34. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) ..... 14.31 - I3499 -
Top 98 % match vs all users




Ancient Ancestry Timelapse map:

https://i.imgur.com/ed9l5DJ.jpg
... Medieval Row time is out of whack, my bad :)

and just because ... I like it :grin: Early Roman Imperial Period:
https://i.imgur.com/jehyv4Q.jpg

Medieval Age
https://i.imgur.com/T01Itle.jpg

Save @Carlos, my dear ancient Iberian brother. Save @torzio and @Salento, my dear ancient Roman Brothers. Regards and health for all, extensive to all Eupedia members anywhere in the world. :cool-v::good_job::heart:

Joey37
16-04-20, 17:36
11989Apparently I resemble my western German ancestors the most, with Franks and Celts. Or adding one part Sicilian DNA to four parts British Isles DNA to make ersatz West German DNA, in addition to the actual western German DNA I have.

kuzmosi
16-04-20, 19:48
Well, it seems to be I haven't any roman ancestry. But eastern gaul (scordisci, anarti, boii), rusyn, scythian, avar and ostrogoth yes.

Gaul + Kievan Rus (8.548)
Scythian + Kievan Rus (8.733)
Gaul + Avar (9.021)
Scythian + Avar (9.759)
Scythian (10.57)
Avar (11.89)
Avar + Kievan Rus (12.05)
Kievan Rus (14.13)
Gaul (18.58)
Ostrogoth (19.05)

My two medallion are a scythian man and a greuthingian ostrogoth woman 1000 years later.
Scythian Ukraine
600 BC
scy009



mtDNA: J2b1a6Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2
https://mytrueancestry.com/img/TrophyAward.png You are a top 95 % match to this sample! This makes your relationship to this individual exceptional.Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 40)
5 SNP chains (min. 61 SNPs) / 24.41 cM
Largest segment=472 SNPs / 6.86 cM

Your raw DNA is 95 % closer than other matching users


Chr. 11

353 SNPs







Chr. 16

580 SNPs









Chr. 20

387 SNPs








Greuthungi / Ostrogoth
310 AD
MJ37



mtDNA: T2g1
https://mytrueancestry.com/img/TrophyAward.png You are a top 96 % match to this sample! This makes your relationship to this individual exceptional.Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 9)
5 SNP chains (min. 61 SNPs) / 14.34 cM
Largest segment=130 SNPs / 4.87 cM

Your raw DNA is 96 % closer than other matching users


Chr. 1

104 SNPs







Chr. 2

103 SNPs







Chr. 6

108 SNPs







Chr. 8

122 SNPs







Chr. 22

130 SNPs

mitty
17-04-20, 02:00
My top "Deep Dive" match:

Viking Gaelic Mix Iceland


935 AD


SSG-A4





mtDNA: (https://mytrueancestry.com/c/main.py#)
[U]Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 95)
9 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 150.95 cM
Largest segment=229 SNPs / 50.38 cM?

How on earth can I share a segment of 50.38 cM with someone who lived over a thousand years ago? I didn't think that was possible.

Stuvanè
18-04-20, 17:25
Curious news from the last update of MTA.

They backdated this Szolad sample SZ1 to the late Central European Bronze Age (1000 BC). Various users requested verification, but MTA confirmed that it would not be an oversight (they are classifying it as an "outlier").
If this were confirmed at this point, there is a good chance that the other specimens of the Szolad cemetery with similar or identical autosomal of the Lombard age are 1) native to the Pannonian region, not born from a mixed Roman-Lombard family and not even descendants of Italic settlers who moved to provincial territories 2) that we have the representative of a late Bronze Age group somehow connected to the ancient Italic and Balkan peoples, perhaps arisen from the same ancestral populations of Central Europe (which would explain why its DNA fragments they are so widespread among many of us MTA users). It would also confirm that genetic "continuum" of ancient pre-Slavic and pre-Germanic central Europe, with the areas of central-northern Italy and also other more western ones

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93426649_223625195405804_7911241596438315008_n.png ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=iXvpVIwdKFAAX94bo8L&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=ebc2a936b513a61f6db6692aeb0d0a7c&oe=5EBEE990

Salento
18-04-20, 17:32
re-upload

new sample: SZ1 Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD)

(why outlier ???) (No Gender yet)

WoW, the shared DNA ...

https://i.imgur.com/fhu5JeY.jpg


SZ1 has new name, it is not longer labeled as an Outlier, ... I never liked that term in general, ...

https://i.imgur.com/yIwgLH0.jpg

Carlos
18-04-20, 17:36
New results

86. Early Bronze Age Abisso del Vento Sicily (2073 BC) ..... 15.27 - I8561
Top
99 %
match vs all users
100. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 15.97 - MX256
Top
99 %
match vs all users
109. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2240 BC) ..... 16.43 - MX277
Top
99 %
match vs all users
144. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 17.55 - MX258 -
Top
64 %
match vs all users
154. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 17.85 - MX252 -
Top
45 %
match vs all users
211. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2240 BC) ..... 20.32 - MX265 -
Top
92 %
match vs all users
220. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 20.73 - MX259 -
Top
36 %
match vs all users
226. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 21.0 - MX280
Top
36 %
match vs all users

​The Bronze Age site at Singen (Hohentwiel) is the largest known Early Bronze Age cemetery in southern Germany and located in the valley next to the Hohentwiel volcano just northwest of Lake Constance. Over 96 graves were discovered here which were buried in four to five distinct zones as kin-related groups. Many graves contained an elaborate stone setting with evidence of wooden coffins. The females were buried pointed to the south whereas the males were pointed north. Female graves contained awls, pins, neck rings or bracelets whereas the males were buried with bracelts, pins and a dagger at their waist. The copper alloys in the metalwork were very advanced and it is believed that Singen metal was mined in the Alps and this community was part of a large trade network with the broader Black Forest and Switzerland regions.

torzio
18-04-20, 19:36
SZ1 has new name, it is not longer labeled as an Outlier, ... I never liked that term in general, ...

https://i.imgur.com/yIwgLH0.jpg

thanks

I have


6. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 9.36 - SZ1
Top 98 % match vs all users



SZ1:
mtDNA: J1b
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2a(Z2123)

.................................................. .................................


also , new.......is Neolithic age [Hidden] - upgrade to Zeus ..... 18.75 - MX265 - ..............No idea on this one

Illyri
19-04-20, 00:07
thanks

I have


6. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 9.36 - SZ1
Top 98 % match vs all users



SZ1:
mtDNA: J1b
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2a(Z2123)

.................................................. .................................


also , new.......is Neolithic age [Hidden] - upgrade to Zeus ..... 18.75 - MX265 - ..............No idea on this one




As it is labelled MX265, isn’t it the brand new R1a-M458 sample from iron age southern Germany. Dibran recently started a thread about it. I am quoting:

« One sample on a upcoming paper on social and genetic structure of Late Neolithic Switzerland may belong to R1a-M458 pending further examination. Sample MX265 was discovered in the District of Constance, which is in Southwest Germany on the Swiss border. If I am not mistaken the sample was from the Bronze Age. If it is confirmed it would be pretty neat considering we only have medieval samples of descending clades. »

Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Duarte
19-04-20, 00:52
@torzio @Illyri

I haven’t this one, referenced by you, in my top 125. But I have the three samples below that came from the same paper. In this sense, you can would access the link below.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0139705


https://i.imgur.com/YAPb0jd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VLbLC44.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pvReMCa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jfTRIgN.jpg

torzio
19-04-20, 02:28
@torzio @Illyri

I haven’t this one, referenced by you, in my top 125. But I have the three samples below that came from the same paper. In this sense, you can would access the link below.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0139705


https://i.imgur.com/YAPb0jd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VLbLC44.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pvReMCa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jfTRIgN.jpg

wow, thanks

Lake Constance .............where my 1450 BDM papers from Val di Non areas, state my paternal line comes from .....other is Augsburg ..................state , I mean the person stating certain families come from when reaching Val di Non

very much appreciated as I could not find it

torzio
19-04-20, 02:30
As it is labelled MX265, isn’t it the brand new R1a-M458 sample from iron age southern Germany. Dibran recently started a thread about it. I am quoting:

« One sample on a upcoming paper on social and genetic structure of Late Neolithic Switzerland may belong to R1a-M458 pending further examination. Sample MX265 was discovered in the District of Constance, which is in Southwest Germany on the Swiss border. If I am not mistaken the sample was from the Bronze Age. If it is confirmed it would be pretty neat considering we only have medieval samples of descending clades. »

Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

thanks.....can you link me where he states this

torzio
19-04-20, 02:34
Curious news from the last update of MTA.

They backdated this Szolad sample SZ1 to the late Central European Bronze Age (1000 BC). Various users requested verification, but MTA confirmed that it would not be an oversight (they are classifying it as an "outlier").
If this were confirmed at this point, there is a good chance that the other specimens of the Szolad cemetery with similar or identical autosomal of the Lombard age are 1) native to the Pannonian region, not born from a mixed Roman-Lombard family and not even descendants of Italic settlers who moved to provincial territories 2) that we have the representative of a late Bronze Age group somehow connected to the ancient Italic and Balkan peoples, perhaps arisen from the same ancestral populations of Central Europe (which would explain why its DNA fragments they are so widespread among many of us MTA users). It would also confirm that genetic "continuum" of ancient pre-Slavic and pre-Germanic central Europe, with the areas of central-northern Italy and also other more western ones

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93426649_223625195405804_7911241596438315008_n.png ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=iXvpVIwdKFAAX94bo8L&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=ebc2a936b513a61f6db6692aeb0d0a7c&oe=5EBEE990

IIRC, the paper stated.....the Lombards arrived and destroyed the Rugii tribe ( originally from the baltic sea ) and married and/or enslaved the remaining Pannonian populace .....................but I am not stating BC times , but the Lombard move into modern Eastern Austria and Hungaria

torzio
19-04-20, 02:43
thanks

I have


6. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 9.36 - SZ1
Top 98 % match vs all users



SZ1:
mtDNA: J1b
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2a(Z2123)

.................................................. .................................


also , new.......is Neolithic age [Hidden] - upgrade to Zeus ..... 18.75 - MX265 - ..............No idea on this one




my sister


47. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2240 BC) ..... 14.97 - MX265 -
Top 99 % match vs all users


.......................................

my father and 1st cousin does not have this marker.................so it is my mother's side


.................................................. .

my father, myself, my sister and my 1st cousin all have the SZ1 sample though

Salento
19-04-20, 05:40
my sister


47. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2240 BC) ..... 14.97 - MX265 -
Top 99 % match vs all users


.......................................

my father and 1st cousin does not have this marker.................so it is my mother's side


.................................................. .

my father, myself, my sister and my 1st cousin all have the SZ1 sample though




MTA should add the X Chromosome too,
and then in the “Deep Dive”, any matches on your X chr. would be from your mother’s side,
although your Father could also pass to you the same samples, but not in your X chromosome.

https://i.imgur.com/GiQ2ZX7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/k6JWVYI.jpg

Illyri
19-04-20, 13:57
thanks.....can you link me where he states this

It is here. I hope it works:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39919-Potential-R1a-M458-sample-discovered-in-Bronze-Age-South-West-Germany?highlight=bronze+age+R1a+M458

Stuvanè
19-04-20, 15:51
IIRC, the paper stated.....the Lombards arrived and destroyed the Rugii tribe ( originally from the baltic sea ) and married and/or enslaved the remaining Pannonian populace .....................but I am not stating BC times , but the Lombard move into modern Eastern Austria and Hungaria

Relata refero

(this is the correspondence between the group administrator of Facebook MTA users group and the MTA staff) :indifferent:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93576567_2594483337537427_1842315299517366272_n.pn g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=D6ythCnGXaQAX8sf7AJ&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=344d7e4ef7a807f3668b469fed5eca11&oe=5EC2F45F

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93687069_350596852567947_6993400947774849024_n.png ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=hU20aVWd7uUAX8QQZUv&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=521e2a0978f069f007be3839bff82abf&oe=5EC36AE7

Carlos
19-04-20, 16:41
My current Outliers

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x2mR3XGMUro/XpxgXmb5JoI/AAAAAAAADjE/yagqmY9PkasrsQomd3yLOUGkizg8U_lGwCEwYBhgLKs0DAL1Oc qwXT6RSIq1HdpLP519L7poqW8ghb4lbLQ7roVspwbbvMP_tuMY 6Iryl4pTSfCpesqsBF19aEPlixri4tyK5ZXpZVlIm5HsPbkOK1 7VnEJkTt7p-lHiNVZQwsm7qbL9SO-0JBjE3XLWyvabnZeVo6dhHjBKsoSdpNPp0hSHindiQGiZ3D7FT jxhnpardYwTwgmgc5L0fu0BFuBeJwzieQFVT8pvljXtX0k33kL TuOAbPi3d0TrOFcqvDeIv9zhKaeiCVMmV-qgacrzrXOOjs0hJPUlcJhssfKCLLvgMpCzVIRX4o-N6Aj0-ry-xeYPUMvHvw9i1nWHtMVcr5RinuCFyzjiwhrds5TVuuAK7LfXBv by7_TOGI2YIIVYqYpfcuEC8cCiILf7WlpDhZLXDgzDZiewHbhF Gmr_aGzhofDk3uCQEOGAvOljgK_8j_6FJzd8x3wS6GFumEjZ8a Cxj2zRVm9CfYVIJWr2Vvepv0lMhVaXes3Fp9mkGF0n5ypFQj3G wt1Ykes5JzRlOsIhJzV0PNNN5FiDv9lzcpbXgu56VnGxC5WyUN 1L700AcbGRX555zsEIqJMqCA1yzMDubTV7kgICoTmQ6o71owi8 bx9AU/s1600/Image%2B2.jpg

torzio
19-04-20, 19:11
MTA should add the X Chromosome too,
and then in the “Deep Dive”, any matches on your X chr. would be from your mother’s side,
although your Father could also pass to you the same samples, but not in your X chromosome.

https://i.imgur.com/GiQ2ZX7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/k6JWVYI.jpg

Yes, that can be also a scenario

btw .....SNP Tracker added our SNP ..............for myself,I support basically the final 2 placements of these markers, the others i am very speculative on.
Other sites have Z19945 on this map on the ancient town of Martar on the Naro river in Modern Bosnia
https://i.postimg.cc/d0MdB5vb/new-tracker-apr2020.png (https://postimg.cc/mPwtZNPj)

torzio
19-04-20, 19:28
Relata refero

(this is the correspondence between the group administrator of Facebook MTA users group and the MTA staff) :indifferent:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93576567_2594483337537427_1842315299517366272_n.pn g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=D6ythCnGXaQAX8sf7AJ&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=344d7e4ef7a807f3668b469fed5eca11&oe=5EC2F45F

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93687069_350596852567947_6993400947774849024_n.png ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=hU20aVWd7uUAX8QQZUv&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=521e2a0978f069f007be3839bff82abf&oe=5EC36AE7

thanks

I already had SZ1 placed for myself from another site

https://i.postimg.cc/QxZ9rSpC/iron-age-me.png

so the main 3 in red dots are .........SZ1, R1 and I3313
https://amtdb.org/records/I3313 (https://postimg.cc/6Tz5rrbx)

Salento
19-04-20, 20:48
Yes, that can be also a scenario

btw .....SNP Tracker added our SNP ..............for myself,I support basically the final 2 placements of these markers, the others i am very speculative on.
Other sites have Z19945 on this map on the ancient town of Martar on the Naro river in Modern Bosnia

https://i.postimg.cc/d0MdB5vb/new-tracker-apr2020.png (https://postimg.cc/mPwtZNPj)

This is the path :)
the Balkan spots (dark blue) are about 4/5000+ years old.

https://i.imgur.com/BLm6n1z.jpg

Carlos
19-04-20, 20:55
MTA will soon present in society DA65

I would also like you to make an introduction to BUR002

Salento
20-04-20, 07:38
Yes, that can be also a scenario
btw .....SNP Tracker added our SNP ....

for SNP Tracker our new SNP is about 1600 years old ... much younger ...

https://i.imgur.com/3A96e7k.jpg

torzio
20-04-20, 08:46
for SNP Tracker our new SNP is about 1600 years old ... much younger ...

https://i.imgur.com/3A96e7k.jpg

thanks...............where you get your map from...mine is different ...my version is 3/april/2020

Salento
20-04-20, 15:33
thanks...............where you get your map from...mine is different ...my version is 3/april/2020

You posted the Default Map, ... to view the Full Path you need to Change the Settings:

... click on the last menu tab (top right), an then UNCHECK the “Smooth Path” option.


https://i.imgur.com/qvwxvps.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/N8cSrFT.jpg

torzio
20-04-20, 20:03
You posted the Default Map, ... to view the Full Path you need to Change the Settings:

... click on the last menu tab (top right), an then UNCHECK the “Smooth Path” option.


https://i.imgur.com/qvwxvps.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/N8cSrFT.jpg

without the smooth path , it is better, especially all my other family markers

mitty
21-04-20, 00:22
The long shared segments of centimorgans with the people in my deep dive results were bugging me, so I sent an email to the MTA team -

HiLooking at my "deep dive" results, I am confused by the amount of dna I share with ancient people, particularly:


SSG-A4, Viking Gaelic mix, Iceland, 935 AD - Longest segment - 50.38Cm


SGG-A2, Danish Gaelic mix, 935 AD - Longest segment - 17.43Cm


And Cheddar man, Somerset, England, 7150 AD - Longest segment - 16.32Cm


How is this possible, with people who lived so long ago?


Regards, Chrissie.

And received a response the same day -

Simple, a centimorgan is a unit of measurement not intended for ancient people - it is literally defined as a way of comparing 2 people from the similar generations to find recombinant DNA. In fact Centimograns are defined in a very vague way and differ among each testing company in the way they are computed - effectively by taking the SNP length shared and multiplying by a linear factor based on the chromosome. This is why we focus on SNP chain lengths and not centimorgans. SNP length meanwhile is a way of checking how many DNA markers in a row you share with an ancient person with the same exact allele pairs. To share say 100 SNPs in a row with someone means you share the exact same genetic markers (SNPs) with the same exact alleles (A, T, G, C) for 100 values in a row. Mathematically it is incredibly improbable to randomly share such a length - the longer the length the stronger the bond with the sample.



You can do the exact same comparisons on Gedmatch as well if you want - set the minimum SNP length to say 60, and the minimum cM length to say 2 cM, and this enables finding genetic matches to ancient samples. If you set the default of 1500 SNPs and 7 cM, you will not find any cM matches - this is because the definition of cM is really "configurable" and fit for purpose.


Hope this clarifies!


- The MTA Team

How nice of them to take the time to reply, and so quickly.

Duarte
21-04-20, 03:16
MTA - Breakdown By Era - Dark Ages.

https://i.imgur.com/AdijHWZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5fMBxFh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/djQ62TJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ltscDTX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mbSz0ha.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hG1IN8k.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QgY64ts.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pkibVyE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bi8nLtZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jXt1zeG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pPSQVnK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/y5yxM37.jpg

Salento
21-04-20, 04:26
@Mitty Thank You :)

SZ1 Tops everyone else SNPs chain for now, by a lot:

https://i.imgur.com/rQgohBs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BWkYsDd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gMeszTh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1odekZj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PB6a81r.jpg

... got many more too :)

:thinking: I’m a Roman / Hellenic Roman,
any “Labeled” Gallo Roman in me (if any), is ancient common European Ancestry ... imho ... so pay no attention to it.

Duarte
21-04-20, 05:32
@Mitty Thank You :)

SZ1 Tops everyone else SNPs chain for now, by a lot:

https://i.imgur.com/rQgohBs.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BWkYsDd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gMeszTh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1odekZj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PB6a81r.jpg

... got many more too :)

:thinking: I’m a Roman / Hellenic Roman,
any “Labeled” Gallo Roman in me (if any), is ancient common European Ancestry ... imho ... so pay no attention to it.

Very useful information @mitty, thank you.

https://i.imgur.com/[email protected] SZ1 is kindred of SZ12 SZ24 SZ22 SZ13 SZ7 SZ8 SZ14 SZ6 SZ15 SZ19

Salento
21-04-20, 06:07
Very useful information @mitty, thank you.

https://i.imgur.com/[email protected] SZ1 is kindred of SZ12 SZ24 SZ22 SZ13 SZ7 SZ8 SZ14 SZ6 SZ15 SZ19

Szolad speaking :)

generally I'm between SZ40 and SZ36,

SZ1 is kind of a Base sample, maybe that's why it has a longer SNPs chain in common with some individuals like me, even though we're different.

https://i.imgur.com/yIwgLH0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/k6JWVYI.jpg

torzio
21-04-20, 07:32
Szolad speaking :)

generally I'm between SZ40 and SZ36,

SZ1 is kind of a Base sample, maybe that's why it has a longer SNPs chain in common with some individuals like me, even though we're different.

https://i.imgur.com/yIwgLH0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/k6JWVYI.jpg

it says SZ1 is closest to

Gallo-Roman + Gepid (8.164)
Gepid + Illyrian (10.3)
Thuringii + Gallo-Roman (11.14)

Gepids = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepids

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepids)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepids)The Gepids ( (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepids)Latin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language): Gepidae, Gipedae) were an East Germanic tribe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germanic_tribes) who lived in the area of modern Romania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania), Hungary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary) and Serbia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia), roughly between the Tisza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tisza), Sava (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sava) and Carpathian mountains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_mountains). They were closely related to, or a subdivision of, the Goths (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths).

bigsnake49
21-04-20, 17:21
Relata refero

(this is the correspondence between the group administrator of Facebook MTA users group and the MTA staff) :indifferent:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93576567_2594483337537427_1842315299517366272_n.pn g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=D6ythCnGXaQAX8sf7AJ&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=344d7e4ef7a807f3668b469fed5eca11&oe=5EC2F45F

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/93687069_350596852567947_6993400947774849024_n.png ?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=hU20aVWd7uUAX8QQZUv&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=521e2a0978f069f007be3839bff82abf&oe=5EC36AE7
I am still amazed and perplexed how you can have so many cM in common with somebody that lived so long ago. I mean this is 2nd-3rd cousin type closeness.

Duarte
21-04-20, 17:55
I am still amazed and perplexed how you can have so many cM in common with somebody that lived so long ago. I mean this is 2nd-3rd cousin type closeness.

Hello @ biganake49. @mitty questioned the MTA team and got the answer below. If this is a satisfactory answer or not, I would not know to say it, but it is the description of how they interpret the issue of distances in relation to ancient samples.

Cheers :)


The long shared segments of centimorgans with the people in my deep dive results were bugging me, so I sent an email to the MTA team -

HiLooking at my "deep dive" results, I am confused by the amount of dna I share with ancient people, particularly:


SSG-A4, Viking Gaelic mix, Iceland, 935 AD - Longest segment - 50.38Cm


SGG-A2, Danish Gaelic mix, 935 AD - Longest segment - 17.43Cm


And Cheddar man, Somerset, England, 7150 AD - Longest segment - 16.32Cm


How is this possible, with people who lived so long ago?


Regards, Chrissie.

And received a response the same day -

Simple, a centimorgan is a unit of measurement not intended for ancient people - it is literally defined as a way of comparing 2 people from the similar generations to find recombinant DNA. In fact Centimograns are defined in a very vague way and differ among each testing company in the way they are computed - effectively by taking the SNP length shared and multiplying by a linear factor based on the chromosome. This is why we focus on SNP chain lengths and not centimorgans. SNP length meanwhile is a way of checking how many DNA markers in a row you share with an ancient person with the same exact allele pairs. To share say 100 SNPs in a row with someone means you share the exact same genetic markers (SNPs) with the same exact alleles (A, T, G, C) for 100 values in a row. Mathematically it is incredibly improbable to randomly share such a length - the longer the length the stronger the bond with the sample.



You can do the exact same comparisons on Gedmatch as well if you want - set the minimum SNP length to say 60, and the minimum cM length to say 2 cM, and this enables finding genetic matches to ancient samples. If you set the default of 1500 SNPs and 7 cM, you will not find any cM matches - this is because the definition of cM is really "configurable" and fit for purpose.


Hope this clarifies!


- The MTA Team

How nice of them to take the time to reply, and so quickly.

Salento
24-04-20, 07:14
... Bella Figura transcend the Timeline :)

https://i.imgur.com/DvsaE7b.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/M186R5k.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hKcKQdw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Nzi5T0C.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oE2kZPS.jpg

Salento
25-04-20, 05:06
SZ1 and others, ...

New: SNP chains - no cM


https://i.imgur.com/phRdo4z.jpg

Old: SNP chains + cM

https://i.imgur.com/yIwgLH0.jpg

Carlos
25-04-20, 13:01
News results



https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jSs5XrmuWRM/XqQZ1qtZZDI/AAAAAAAADko/9jh3bIrZs9AL2qnUothwGAtzI1UB2PrzwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/doneteRaethi.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tbw9LCRcLzE/XqQZ54ethZI/AAAAAAAADks/Evn1xswmn0oFSSd4fkheUB5cdi4-BuRCwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/doneteRetyByEra.jpeg


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kqD52uGyZGc/XqOc26af4FI/AAAAAAAADkI/8omFqw-Bcqkcef_T-FVQaGN6DAcmzgz9gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RhaetiTribeWartauSwitzerlandSX18.jpeg

Salento
29-04-20, 21:20
SZ1 and others, ...

New: SNP chains - no cM


https://i.imgur.com/phRdo4z.jpg

Old: SNP chains + cM

https://i.imgur.com/yIwgLH0.jpg

cM is back, :satisfied:

Top ... Largest chain: 811 SNPs / 79.63 cM ...

https://i.imgur.com/OIDwfH7.jpg

Palermo Trapani
29-04-20, 23:15
Duarte: Thanks for sharing the responses BigSnake49 and Mitty received from MTA. I have an account over there and this information really helps me understand what is going on with my Ancient matches.

Cheers, hope all is well in your part of the World

Duarte
29-04-20, 23:34
Duarte: Thanks for sharing the responses BigSnake49 and Mitty received from MTA. I have an account over there and this information really helps me understand what is going on with my Ancient matches.

Cheers, hope all is well in your part of the World

Thank you very much Trapani.
Here in my part of the world the things are very complicated but my family and I are doing well and, with faith in God, we will continue like this.
I wish all of good for you and whole family and friends. Cheers. :good_job::smile:

kuzmosi
01-05-20, 19:49
My own results: - sorry but I can't sent the picture.
scythians: 18,6
avars: 10,8
franks: 6,63
sarmatians: 6,45
vikings-danish: 6,13
proto-hungarians: 5.86
celts: 5,83
vikings-swedish: 5,53
baltic tribes: 4,19
ostrogoths: 4,08
kievan rus: 3,82
gauls: 3,7
early slavs: 3,61
saxons: 3,21
visigoths: 2,86
boii: 2,63
gallo-romans: 1,89
thuringii: 1,56
illyrians: 1,33
vikings-icelandic: 1,12

my mother's results:

baltic tribes: 15,5
scythians: 14,5
avars: 14,2
viking-swedish: 6,45
kievan rus: 6,27
proto-hungarians: 5,59
viking-danish: 5,17
early slavs: 5,03
franks: 5,02
sarmatians: 4,28
ostrogoths: 3,64
gauls: 2,66
celts: 2,25
boii: 2,17
saxons: 1,73
visigoths: 1,48
thuringii: 1,27
byzantine empire: 0,96
longobards: 0,78
oeselians: 0,76

My mother' brother's results:

scythians: 16,1
avars: 15,5
baltic tribes: 9,12
kievan rus: 8,86
viking-swedish: 8,09
sarmatians: 6,96
vikings danish: 5,06
proto-hungarians: 4,23
franks: 4,02
early slavs: 3,58
ostrogoths: 3,54
visigoths: 2,47
gauls: 2,27
celts: 2,23
saxons: 1,66
longobards: 1,61
boii: 1,51
thuringii: 1,17
oeselians: 0,93
vikings-icelandic: 0,92

my father's sister's results:

scythians: 26,7
sarmatians: 13,6
vikings-swedish: 10,1
avars: 6,79
franks: 5,82
vikings-danish: 5,71
celts: 5,15
longobards: 4,59
saxons: 3,81
visigoths: 3,34
kievan rus: 3,24
ostrogoths: 3,07
gauls: 2,2
proto-hungarians: 1,46
vikings icelandic: 1,21
thuringii: 1,18
viking-norwegian: 0,96
oeselians: 0,56
huns: 0,15
baltic tribes: 0,08

my paternal grandfather's brother's results:

scythians: 16,8
avars: 10,3
sarmatians: 8,78
vikings-swedish: 8,51
vikings danish: 7,9
franks: 7,21
proto-hungarians: 5,74
celts: 5,5
kievan rus: 4,64
ostrogoths: 3,77
gauls: 3,55
visigoths: 3,22
early slavs: 3,21
saxons: 2,16
thuringii: 1,88
longobards: 1,87
boii: 1,85
vikings-icelandic: 1,17
gepids: 1,1
oeselians: 0,62

my wife's results: (we haven't any common ancestor in the last 250 years, but in deeper time God knows.)

scythians: 19,2
avars: 9,45
vikings swedish: 9,42
franks: 8,73
vikings danish: 7,01
proto-hungarians: 5,24
gauls: 4,68
ostrogoths: 4,54
saxons: 4,35
visigoths: 3,96
celts: 3,92
kievan rus: 3,89
sarmatians: 2,45
boii: 2,37
gallo-romans: 2,23
longobards: 2,15
thuringii: 2,07
early slavs: 1,64
illyrians: 1,32
romans: 1,26

one of my far relative's results (our last common ancestor born: 1799)

scythians: 22,3
avars: 11,1
sarmatians: 10,6
kievan rus: 6,8
vikings swedish: 6,56
franks: 6,45
proto-hungarians: 5,23
vikings-danish: 5,15
ostrogoths: 3,58
gauls: 3,57
visigoths: 3,21
baltic tribes: 2,84
celts: 2,42
early slavs: 1,88
boii: 1,65
saxons: 1,63
longobards: 1,56
thuringii: 1,56
gepids: 0,99
oeselians: 0,79

We and all of our known ancestors (from 1660-1810 in different lines) lived in northeast Hungary and all of them was ethnic hungarian (at least as we know)

Conclusions:

1.) we have a very strong link to the ancient iron age east european (2750-2000 ybp) scythian tribes.
2.) In here is exist a genetic continuity has been continuous since the early eastern celts of the iron age (here lived the anartii tribe 2300 years ago) (gaul, celt, boii results) and their contemporaries, the illyrians (pannonians). The thracian and dacian (and all balkanic) heredity is completely missing. We haven't connection with this peoples.
3.) This continuity continued the sarmatians (jazigs) and later the german tribes (goths, gepids, longobards, thuringii) We haven't mediterranean heredity, just a little roman and gallo-roman.
4.) The hun connection is very week (only in my father's sister's results, just in low numbers)
5.) We have a strong link to the avars.
6.) We are all the descendants of the conquering hungarians (11,6-28,2 in different samples in the medieval age), but the conquerors must were fewer than those found locally people. (the avar connection is stronger than the hungarian). Question: the hungarian language is came from the conquerors or this was the language of the late avar population?)
7.) We have not too strong slavic genetic link (early-slavs and kievan rus) from the avar age or with the conquerors. Balti tribes and oeselians maybe slavic or scandinavian link?
8.) We have a very-very strong genetic link to all Scandinavia. Mostly swedish and danish. How? I think with the conquering hungarian tribes and in the Árpád's Age arrived many 'rus' and varangian. We haven't any connection with the modern germans.

What do you thiunk?

Carlos
02-05-20, 01:28
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AuDjaWp5qeo/Xqyum6SGw0I/AAAAAAAADls/joEaf5jCeZAEhylY0cXfcu--BRQnzGHaQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RoscoRosquete28Abril.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cj5lirFl6dE/Xqyvo8orgGI/AAAAAAAADmA/AzJJugY50con3u0TR251lOq7hzepaZdBACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/rosquete28Abril.jpeg



https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LPSj9bap0QU/XqyuYerpS0I/AAAAAAAADlg/CwW_ZN97moQiYCnoZ97Uy3pKIjceJkytACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RomanRosquete.jpeg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ysomcRCCRZw/XqyudzGeFOI/AAAAAAAADlk/sJYTAd0UvP8elsV-YJtLrF0nr005zjCZQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RomanHispaniaRosquete.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jUX65lKS3ZQ/Xqyui-wBcDI/AAAAAAAADlo/ecOPhe5fZUUevpCGybjjYq9FCOj902f2ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RomanSaxoRosquete.jpeg

I was thinking about my betrothal, my promotion and social escalation.

Riverman
02-05-20, 11:31
My results with Scythian and Frank being closest:

Scythian + Frank (3.543)
Scythian + Gaul (3.953)
Scythian + Thuringii (4.291)
Visigoth + Scythian (4.575)
Gaul + Frank (6.137)
Frank (7.12)
Gaul (8.282)
Scythian (8.763)
Thuringii (9.461)
Visigoth (10.94)

12032

12033


Closest ancient match:

Bell Beaker Poland 2500 BC
I4251



mtDNA: H1Y-DNA: R1b1a1a2

Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 4)
1 SNP chain (min. 60 SNPs) / 2.96 cM
Largest chain: 233 SNPs / 2.96 cM

https://mytrueancestry.com/img/TrophyGold.png You are the #2 top match to this sample!
You are #2 among 110 other users who also have a deep dive match with this sample. This makes your relationship to this individual very unique. Full research for this sample is activated for you regardless of your access level. Touch the info button for more information.

Next is

Relic French King Louis XVI 1793 AD



And Bell Beaker from Haunstetten, followed by Goths and Vikings.


Closest archaeogenetic match:

1. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 7.12 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

Riverman
02-05-20, 14:07
Please note that this is not Louis XVI's DNA! He belonged to haplogroup R1b-U106, not G2a. This sample was mistakenly thought to belong to Louis XVI. So this sample is worthless and it is surprising that MyTrueAncestry used it.

I'm closer to this sample than 99 percent of the samples with 5 SNP chains, 51,93 cM, longest chain 13,77. So even if this is not the DNA of Louis XVI, I would be interested which persons DNA it is or could be? First question would be whether its authentic from the 18th century.

Stuvanè
02-05-20, 17:50
I'm closer to this sample than 99 percent of the samples with 5 SNP chains, 51,93 cM, longest chain 13,77. So even if this is not the DNA of Louis XVI, I would be interested which persons DNA it is or could be? First question would be whether its authentic from the 18th century.

Vessel and relic may also be original, but certainly the biological sample examined is not from King Louis XVI. I'm pretty sure it's actually a northern Italian, perhaps from upper Lombardy or at least from neighboring areas. This in fact is his PCA. Which cannot be that of an individual like Louis XVI, who should instead be in another area of the map: he was 1/4 "French", while for the other 3/4 he was of German, Austrian and Polish origins.
If, on the other hand, it was possible to ascertain that that DNA belongs to the French ruler, then extramarital events should be considered in his genealogy.



https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/95254483_161484078618926_3514703688302067712_n.png ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=yYi1y_tT_iMAX93G6Ad&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=2939023f8d620f6d07aecb0f1a169ca7&oe=5ED3F8D8

Angela
02-05-20, 18:02
Vessel and relic may also be original, but certainly the biological sample examined is not from King Louis XVI. I'm pretty sure it's actually a northern Italian, perhaps from upper Lombardy or at least from neighboring areas. This in fact is his PCA. Which cannot be that of an individual like Louis XVI, who should instead be in another area of the map: he was 1/4 "French", while for the other 3/4 he was of German, Austrian and Polish origins.
If, on the other hand, it was possible to ascertain that that DNA belongs to the French ruler, then extramarital events should be considered in his genealogy.



https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/95254483_161484078618926_3514703688302067712_n.png ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=yYi1y_tT_iMAX93G6Ad&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=2939023f8d620f6d07aecb0f1a169ca7&oe=5ED3F8D8

Very informative, Stuvane. :) I never saw the autosomal results.

Hawk
02-05-20, 18:02
I got Byzantines as closest population, but mytrueancestry isn't worth considering as serious genetic website.

Stuvanè
02-05-20, 19:20
Very informative, Stuvane. :) I never saw the autosomal results.

Hi, Angela.


With the various MTA upgrades you are enabled to examine their PCAs (both with ancient samples and with modern amps). And it is perhaps the most useful tool because many times MTA has the vice of labeling samples in a not very precise way.


BTW: new ancient specimens classified by MTA as "Ligurians" came out tonight, but - on closer inspection with Pax - they are actually semi-Iberian people...
:wary2:

Duarte
02-05-20, 19:57
Hi, Angela.


With the various MTA upgrades you are enabled to examine their PCAs (both with ancient samples and with modern amps). And it is perhaps the most useful tool because many times MTA has the vice of labeling samples in a not very precise way.


BTW: new ancient specimens classified by MTA as "Ligurians" came out tonight, but - on closer inspection with Pax - they are actually semi-Iberian people...
:wary2:


My ‘Ligurian’ and ‘Aquitani’ ancient matches:

https://i.imgur.com/DgXJJEO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v8a6QPV.jpg

Riverman
02-05-20, 21:11
Vessel and relic may also be original, but certainly the biological sample examined is not from King Louis XVI. I'm pretty sure it's actually a northern Italian, perhaps from upper Lombardy or at least from neighboring areas. This in fact is his PCA. Which cannot be that of an individual like Louis XVI, who should instead be in another area of the map: he was 1/4 "French", while for the other 3/4 he was of German, Austrian and Polish origins.
If, on the other hand, it was possible to ascertain that that DNA belongs to the French ruler, then extramarital events should be considered in his genealogy

That's interesting, because one speculation was that its Henri IV. DNA and this individual is on the PCA between North Italians and Northern Spanish. So while this might be no perfect match either, it comes close enough. Probably they will find out who it was, some day. Other people with German ancestry share segments with this sample as well, I just got more of it, according to MTA.

torzio
02-05-20, 21:16
Hi, Angela.


With the various MTA upgrades you are enabled to examine their PCAs (both with ancient samples and with modern amps). And it is perhaps the most useful tool because many times MTA has the vice of labeling samples in a not very precise way.


BTW: new ancient specimens classified by MTA as "Ligurians" came out tonight, but - on closer inspection with Pax - they are actually semi-Iberian people...
:wary2:


If you read ancient texts, they state iberians where only from modern Valencia and north through catalonia and into france to the rhone river france, across the river where the ligurians ..........the gauls invaded southern france from the north to split these people................so Iberians and Ligurians where once neighbours

Angela
02-05-20, 21:31
Hi, Angela.


With the various MTA upgrades you are enabled to examine their PCAs (both with ancient samples and with modern amps). And it is perhaps the most useful tool because many times MTA has the vice of labeling samples in a not very precise way.


BTW: new ancient specimens classified by MTA as "Ligurians" came out tonight, but - on closer inspection with Pax - they are actually semi-Iberian people...
:wary2:


Well, as to that "relic" which used to be thought of as Louis XV1, not good, but not terrible.
31. Relic French King Louis XVI (1793 AD) ..... 11.3 - LXVI -
Top
98 % match vs all users

The "Ligurians" must be a match over 14, because that's when my 50 samples end.

Stuvanè
02-05-20, 22:38
If you read ancient texts, they state iberians where only from modern Valencia and north through catalonia and into france to the rhone river france, across the river where the ligurians ..........the gauls invaded southern france from the north to split these people................so Iberians and Ligurians where once neighbours

Sure, but we are talking about a very archaic component that probably precedes the formation of the "historical" Ligurians. So old that only some Italians - for example some from Upper Lombardy or inland Veneto - are fairly close to them in the MTA oracles. At present the current "Italian" Ligurians do not trace this possible component.
In my opinion, a little forced the assignment of "Ligure" to this individual, perhaps at this point more appropriate to speak of a semi-Iberian.

Here is his plot and his link




https://mytrueancestry.com/c/image.py?&j=pca_PECH5&s=pcac

http://pechmaho.canalblog.com/

Stuvanè
02-05-20, 22:45
My ‘Ligurian’ and ‘Aquitani’ ancient matches:

https://i.imgur.com/DgXJJEO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v8a6QPV.jpg

Exactly, Duarte :)

Riverman
02-05-20, 22:53
MTA seems to produce similar results to Eurogenes K36, where I got Lombards as my top matches too:

Closest population distances

Population
Distance


CL63_Alpine
1.311841


SZ42_Longobard
1.467153


SZ24_Longobard
1.539133


SZ5_Pannonian
1.563197


IA_Britain_York_3DRIF16
1.564585


BA_Hungary_BR2
1.608408


Baiuvarii_Germanic_BIM_33
1.654276


SZ15_Longobard
1.661574

Carlos
03-05-20, 01:56
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1Hdw9mHAJKY/Xq4IFEZcYGI/AAAAAAAADmM/POqCmRGUigc1WbXxoztsiFNbgkOXOo14gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/qui%25C3%25A9nesestamujer.jpeg

Does anyone know who this woman is and where she is from?


It appears in some of my deep dives but it doesn't ring a bell, I don't know who it is.

Salento
03-05-20, 02:57
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1Hdw9mHAJKY/Xq4IFEZcYGI/AAAAAAAADmM/POqCmRGUigc1WbXxoztsiFNbgkOXOo14gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/qui%25C3%25A9nesestamujer.jpeg

Does anyone know who this woman is and where she is from?


It appears in some of my deep dives but it doesn't ring a bell, I don't know who it is.

She’s Carusu Granddaughter :grin:

https://i.imgur.com/f1Rgs2j.jpg

Salento
03-05-20, 03:01
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1Hdw9mHAJKY/Xq4IFEZcYGI/AAAAAAAADmM/POqCmRGUigc1WbXxoztsiFNbgkOXOo14gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/qui%25C3%25A9nesestamujer.jpeg

Does anyone know who this woman is and where she is from?


It appears in some of my deep dives but it doesn't ring a bell, I don't know who it is.

She’s an Hellenic Roman

https://i.imgur.com/JGOUVdX.png

Carlos
03-05-20, 03:44
She’s an Hellenic Roman

https://i.imgur.com/JGOUVdX.png


Ahhh you see. I did not know her, now that I see the family photo, the one that appears above sounds more to me, I thought it was the oldest, they will take little.

Pilar, that is, I remember, the one I knew was the sister, now I'm down. The one they put in the Deep Dive is Montse, but I did not know Montse.

Pax Augusta
03-05-20, 22:39
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1Hdw9mHAJKY/Xq4IFEZcYGI/AAAAAAAADmM/POqCmRGUigc1WbXxoztsiFNbgkOXOo14gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/qui%25C3%25A9nesestamujer.jpeg

Does anyone know who this woman is and where she is from?


It appears in some of my deep dives but it doesn't ring a bell, I don't know who it is.


Portrait identified as that of Galla Placida. But there's no certainty that it was really her portrait.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galla_Placidia

Carlos
04-05-20, 02:11
Portrait identified as that of Galla Placida. But there's no certainty that it was really her portrait.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galla_Placidia

Oh yeah, didn't you know? I would bet more on the girl in the center of the photo, who seems to be going unnoticed and is really her, Look at the knot in her clothes and the symbolism that the knot represents, but everyone notices the one who wears the jewelry. If she was very devout, perhaps she wanted to appear as a Christian from before.

https://live.staticflickr.com/5105/5734397790_cd562ff358_b.jpg

Salento
05-05-20, 04:23
Additional Features >>> Medical Analysis
blood type:

https://i.imgur.com/b41x48H.jpg

Duarte
05-05-20, 15:47
Additional Features >>> Medical Analysis
blood type:

https://i.imgur.com/b41x48H.jpg

I haven’t this option in my ‘Additional Features’ . I just have the option of comparison two different kits:sad-2:

Cheers dear friend Salento.

Salento
05-05-20, 19:03
I haven’t this option in my ‘Additional Features’ . I just have the option of comparison two different kits:sad-2:

Cheers dear friend Salento.

... strange, ... and you’ve got the Rich People level, ... :) lol

https://i.imgur.com/BenzT4C.gif

Riverman
05-05-20, 19:07
... strange, ... and you’ve got the Rich People level, ... :) lol


It might be related to the place of residence. On 23andme the medical interpretations were blocked for Europeans too after the troubles with the FDA and never reopened, unlike for Americans.

Archetype0ne
05-05-20, 20:08
Guys, I wanted to post this in another thread ... genetic origin of Minoans and Mycenaeans, due to the discussion going on there... but I felt its more appropriate here.

Is it me or quite a few Italians, people with Italian ancestry (and even some Iberians) have very close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, be it Illyrians or Thracians and even ancient Greeks?

Would this be because of some Southern European genetic continuum?

Not only that, but as has been previously stated in various threads on Eupedia, Albanians and Greeks are quite close autosomally to southern Italians, and even Tuscans (who I consider North Italy).

I personally get modeled by some calculators with the third closest population autosomally to Swiss Italians, which I find quite peculiar and interesting.

Angela
05-05-20, 21:25
Guys, I wanted to post this in another thread ... genetic origin of Minoans and Mycenaeans, due to the discussion going on there... but I felt its more appropriate here.

Is it me or quite a few Italians, people with Italian ancestry (and even some Iberians) have very close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, be it Illyrians or Thracians and even ancient Greeks?

Would this be because of some Southern European genetic continuum?

Not only that, but as has been previously stated in various threads on Eupedia, Albanians and Greeks are quite close autosomally to southern Italians, and even Tuscans (who I consider North Italy).

I personally get modeled by some calculators with the third closest population autosomally to Swiss Italians, which I find quite peculiar and interesting.

A lot of Italians get close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, especially those from Tuscany north, i.e. Torzio, Stuvane, etc. as well as me. If my memory serves, Duarte also gets matches but I think the Northern Italians are closer.

Maybe they'll chime in.

I think it's partly because it's a similar mix in terms of percentages of European farmer and steppe.

In terms of the Mycenaeans, I don't think anyone is really close to them among Italians, and I don't know that I've ever seen Greek or Albanian results; or maybe I just don't remember.

My husband's results (Calabria and Campania):



13.21406069
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


15.30949705
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


16.39549938
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


16.51320684
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


17.14511884
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


17.69629340
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


18.10760614
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


22.17128548
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


22.50692338
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


29.94620677
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


31.37735011
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete

Angela
05-05-20, 21:34
Guys, I wanted to post this in another thread ... genetic origin of Minoans and Mycenaeans, due to the discussion going on there... but I felt its more appropriate here.

Is it me or quite a few Italians, people with Italian ancestry (and even some Iberians) have very close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, be it Illyrians or Thracians and even ancient Greeks?

Would this be because of some Southern European genetic continuum?

Not only that, but as has been previously stated in various threads on Eupedia, Albanians and Greeks are quite close autosomally to southern Italians, and even Tuscans (who I consider North Italy).

I personally get modeled by some calculators with the third closest population autosomally to Swiss Italians, which I find quite peculiar and interesting.

A lot of Italians get close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, especially those from Tuscany north, i.e. Torzio, Stuvane, etc. as well as me. If my memory serves, Duarte also gets matches but I think the Northern Italians are closer.

Maybe they'll chime in.

I think it's partly because it's a similar mix in terms of percentages of European farmer and steppe.

In terms of the Mycenaeans, I don't think anyone is really close to them among Italians, and I don't know that I've ever seen Greek or Albanian results; or maybe I just don't remember.

My husband's results (Calabria and Campania):



13.21406069
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


15.30949705
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


16.39549938
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


16.51320684
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


17.14511884
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


17.69629340
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


18.10760614
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


20.50776438
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


20.79050745
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


21.50784741
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


21.58030584
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


22.17128548
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


22.50692338
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


23.08921610
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


29.94620677
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


31.37735011
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete




Mine:


Distance to:
Angela


6.32865705
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


13.16126134
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


16.36232257
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


17.15337576
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


22.73903692
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


23.78977301
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


24.20533206
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


25.21253061
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


25.95385135
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


26.05354486
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


27.02639081
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


27.59669183
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


28.94240488
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


29.43669479
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


30.20115726
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


34.35607515
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete

Archetype0ne
05-05-20, 21:42
A lot of Italians get close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, especially those from Tuscany north, i.e. Torzio, Stuvane, etc. as well as me. If my memory serves, Duarte also gets matches but I think the Northern Italians are closer.

Maybe they'll chime in.

I think it's partly because it's a similar mix in terms of percentages of European farmer and steppe.

In terms of the Mycenaeans, I don't think anyone is really close to them among Italians, and I don't know that I've ever seen Greek or Albanian results; or maybe I just don't remember.

My husband's results (Calabria and Campania):



13.21406069
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


15.30949705
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


16.39549938
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


16.51320684
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


17.14511884
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


17.69629340
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


18.10760614
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


22.17128548
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


22.50692338
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


29.94620677
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


31.37735011
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete




Yes, did not mean relatively close to Myceneans, just mean't I got inspiration from that thread.


... sharing with me the same chromosome segment (.. common ancestry) :

I3313 / I5769 and SZ1 / I5769 /...


https://i.imgur.com/madvXz6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cNtU6d9.jpg

SZ1 must be a Top Ancient Matrix :)


8.10124682I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
11.23290701I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_T ryfilia_Peloponnese
12.00656071I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apat heia_Peloponnese
13.72024781I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki _Salamis
18.74095515I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apat heia_Peloponnese
21.33123063I2495_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta
21.43208343I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
21.69369033I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
21.86606046I2499_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta
23.18149693I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
24.19380086I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa _Cave
24.29362468I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
24.86041029I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
24.97441291I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
26.69673388I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
27.08157676I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
27.29426130I2683_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-

Distance: 4.8511% / 4.85107036

76.8I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
23.2I2499_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta


Crete Armenoi is closer to Bulgarians than it is to Myceaneans, isn't that alarming enough that it is not an accurate model?
As for the rest I agree the Epirotes and Macedonians might be closer to Thracians than ancient Peloponnesians but still Thracians are closer to Myceaneans than mainland Greeks are.
https://i.imgur.com/BvQlw0v.png



Mine
4.35562854 I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
12.34540805 I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese
17.07410905 I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese
20.16042410 I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese
21.91538957 I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
26.22964163 I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave
27.04493113 I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete
27.83330918 I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete
27.88569884 I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete
29.00606661 I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete
29.15295011 I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete
29.32860208 I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete
30.61564469 I2495_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta
31.45773514 I2499_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta
31.73608199 I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete
32.81546434 I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete
33.17885923 I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete
35.70232205 I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete
36.85938686 I2683_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta


Jovialis: Many thanks again.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


5.34140431
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


6.45593525
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


8.70789871
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


11.70746343
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


13.34228991
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


13.73657526
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


14.14548338
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


15.13739410
I2495_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta


15.50460899
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


16.19644097
I2499_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta


16.85183373
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


17.19064571
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


17.84991597
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


18.17824524
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


19.00934244
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


19.36881772
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


20.65580306
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


21.49435740
I2683_Bronze_Age_Anatolian_Harmanӧren-GӧndürleHӧyük_Isparta


23.40739413
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete





Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 5.3414% / 5.34140431 | ADC: 2x



100.0
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 4.4120% / 4.41203743 | ADC: 1x



69.2
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese





27.8
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis





3.0
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 1.8120% / 1.81200405 | ADC: 0.5x



63.2
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis





29.4
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete





7.4
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 1.4926% / 1.49259517 | ADC: 0.25x



65.8
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis





34.2
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete





Here are the four Mycenaean samples as TARGETS.

I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
https://i.ibb.co/jWzKTZ4/I9006-Bronze-Age-Mycenaean-Agia-Kyriaki-Salamis.png

I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese
https://i.ibb.co/SNLxTt5/I9010-Bronze-Age-Mycenaean-Galatas-Apatheia-Peloponnese.png

I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese
https://i.ibb.co/DzCmDg1/I9033-Bronze-Age-Mycenaean-Peristeria-Tryfilia-Peloponnese.png

I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese
https://i.ibb.co/HgF9V1F/I9041-Bronze-Age-Mycenaean-Galatas-Apatheia-Peloponnese.png


Here is Minoan and Mycenean also done by ph2ter:

https://i.imgur.com/PYecNJp.png
https://i.imgur.com/wdxz9BI.png

Here is mine

https://i.imgur.com/XhpSwYL.png


Edit: These maps are "G25 Distance Maps To Modern Europeans (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18960-G25-Distance-Maps-To-Modern-Europeans/page33)". Many more interesting maps done by ph2ter can be found here:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18960-G25-Distance-Maps-To-Modern-Europeans

These are the posts that inspired my question.
I realize that Mycenean at around 10-13% genetic distance is not that "close", and I did not imply that, just got inspired from the posts in Genetic origins of Minoans and Myceneans. And to be fair 10-13% genetic distance to such ancient samples is nothing to scoff at.
My point was that autosomally speaking Italians, Albanians and Greeks are "fairly close" to ancient Bronze age populations, be it Illyrian, Thracian and less so for Mycenean and Minoan.

torzio
05-05-20, 22:25
Guys, I wanted to post this in another thread ... genetic origin of Minoans and Mycenaeans, due to the discussion going on there... but I felt its more appropriate here.

Is it me or quite a few Italians, people with Italian ancestry (and even some Iberians) have very close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, be it Illyrians or Thracians and even ancient Greeks?

Would this be because of some Southern European genetic continuum?

Not only that, but as has been previously stated in various threads on Eupedia, Albanians and Greeks are quite close autosomally to southern Italians, and even Tuscans (who I consider North Italy).

I personally get modeled by some calculators with the third closest population autosomally to Swiss Italians, which I find quite peculiar and interesting.

swiss-italians are historically tied to Grisons
The canton of (the) Grisons, or canton of Graubünden,[a] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Grisons#cite_note-3) is the largest and easternmost canton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland) of Switzerland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland). It has international borders with Italy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), Austria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria), and Liechtenstein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein). Its German name, Graubünden, translates as the "Grey Leagues", referring to the canton's origin in three local alliances, the League of God's House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_God%27s_House), the Grey League (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_League), and the League of the Ten Jurisdictions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_Ten_Jurisdictions). Grisons is the only officially trilingual canton and the only one where the Romansh language has official status. Swiss German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German), Italian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Italian), and Romansh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romansh_language) are all native to the canton.
Most of the lands of the canton were once part of a Roman province called Raetia, which was established in 15 BC. The current capital of Grisons, Chur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chur), was known as Curia in Roman times. The area later was part of the lands of the diocese of Chur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Chur). In 1798, the lands of the canton of Grisons became part of the Helvetic Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetic_Republic) as the Canton of Raetia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_of_Raetia) except Valtellina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valtellina), which was separated in 1797 for joining to the Cisalpine Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisalpine_Republic). It was later part of Empire of Austria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Austria) in 1814 before joining to Kingdom of Italy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy) in 1859.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=yaXt3C4SVCcC&pg=PA228&lpg=PA228&dq=ancient+grisons&source=bl&ots=wQ4H1s6ewx&sig=ACfU3U1QOg52FZhYNeSFczqxQRSTmnlhZA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixxJj9xp3pAhWJbisKHYo6CXwQ6AEwE3oECAoQA Q#v=onepage&q=ancient%20grisons&f=false

Rhaetians are associated with Tuscans, Veneti, Lombardi, Trentini and Friuliani

The venetians took a lot of these people as mercenaries circa 1600
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=p1IBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=ancient+grisons+and+venetians&source=bl&ots=FVvmptEKN4&sig=ACfU3U2pgoGgIp4UZ9rWHlrtbyqNEf5IIA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBxoa8x53pAhUMeisKHf58DzEQ6AEwE3oECBcQA Q#v=onepage&q=ancient%20grisons%20and%20venetians&f=false


https://books.google.com.au/books?id=SubcAQPqa3EC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=ancient+grisons+and+venetians&source=bl&ots=ouWIFN_sin&sig=ACfU3U2wh9qALo2fsvJxoAEom0TvUxJpMA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBxoa8x53pAhUMeisKHf58DzEQ6AEwFnoECBgQA Q#v=onepage&q=ancient%20grisons%20and%20venetians&f=false (https://books.google.com.au/books?id=p1IBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=ancient+grisons+and+venetians&source=bl&ots=FVvmptEKN4&sig=ACfU3U2pgoGgIp4UZ9rWHlrtbyqNEf5IIA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBxoa8x53pAhUMeisKHf58DzEQ6AEwE3oECBcQA Q#v=onepage&q=ancient%20grisons%20and%20venetians&f=false)

Angela
05-05-20, 23:02
Yes, did not mean relatively close to Myceneans, just mean't I got inspiration from that thread.
















These are the posts that inspired my question.
I realize that Mycenean at around 10-13% genetic distance is not that "close", and I did not imply that, just got inspired from the posts in Genetic origins of Minoans and Myceneans. And to be fair 10-13% genetic distance to such ancient samples is nothing to scoff at.
My point was that autosomally speaking Italians, Albanians and Greeks are "fairly close" to ancient Bronze age populations, be it Illyrian, Thracian and less so for Mycenean and Minoan.

I completely agree.

From what I've seen, though, Sicilians (i.e. Palermo Trapani) are often much closer to Myceneaens than anyone else, and I think northern Italians, not including Tuscans, may be the closest to Bronze Age Balkan populations north of Greece, although I think that's a Southern European phenomenon.

In terms of your Swiss Italian match, I meant to tell you on the other thread that you seem a bit more "northern" than some of the other Albanian results I've seen.

I've seen people from Kosovo get Tuscans on their list, and some Tuscans get Kosovo on their list, but after people from closer areas. I think the difference may be more "Gaulish" in western Italians, and some "Slavic" in people in the Balkans.

I think I may have mentioned before that there's one gedmatch oracle which has no Tuscans or Northern Italians, only Southern Italians. On that one, I get Bulgarians and Albanians first and second, but not great fits, naturally.

I'm just relying on memory.

Duarte
05-05-20, 23:37
... strange, ... and you’ve got the Rich People level, ... :) lol

https://i.imgur.com/BenzT4C.gif
Hi Salento. Thanks by answering. LOL These are my active level and my available features. In fact, strange. Maybe I have the rich people level but this is not available to poor countries like mine, for example, lol lol lol. :laughing::laughing: Maybe It was a ofer by limited time or my kit do not have sufficient SNPs to turn on the medical analysis, I don’t know. Meanwhile, still continues strange because my standard kit nowadays is MyHeritage health + ancestry, that contain almost all SNPs refers to traits. I am not using more the FTDNA kit in MTA.
https://i.imgur.com/98TUGvk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oIriUet.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cpj21mg.jpg

Palermo Trapani
06-05-20, 00:27
Guys, I wanted to post this in another thread ... genetic origin of Minoans and Mycenaeans, due to the discussion going on there... but I felt its more appropriate here.

Is it me or quite a few Italians, people with Italian ancestry (and even some Iberians) have very close matches with Bronze Age Balkans, be it Illyrians or Thracians and even ancient Greeks?

Would this be because of some Southern European genetic continuum?

Not only that, but as has been previously stated in various threads on Eupedia, Albanians and Greeks are quite close autosomally to southern Italians, and even Tuscans (who I consider North Italy).

I personally get modeled by some calculators with the third closest population autosomally to Swiss Italians, which I find quite peculiar and interesting.

Here are my updated MTA results (I upgraded to Zeus Level as they were offering the update for only $50 bucks!, so I grabbed it). These results support the Dodecad 7B results I posted earlier. Not only do I get reasonable genetic distances with ancient Greeks, I also get matches on the MTA Chroma analysis as well. I apologize if the images are poorly presented, I had to do 3 separate snips.


120431204512044

Salento
06-05-20, 04:22
Here are my updated MTA results (I upgraded to Zeus Level as they were offering the update for only $50 bucks!, so I grabbed it). These results support the Dodecad 7B results I posted earlier. Not only do I get reasonable genetic distances with ancient Greeks, I also get matches on the MTA Chroma analysis as well. I apologize if the images are poorly presented, I had to do 3 separate snips.


120431204512044


... comparing the Mycenaeans, ...

they’re closer to you than me by about 5 points.

(some of Puglia was part of Magna Graecia)

... nice results :)

https://i.imgur.com/BgoVje9.jpg

Duarte
06-05-20, 04:55
Here are my updated MTA results (I upgraded to Zeus Level as they were offering the update for only $50 bucks!, so I grabbed it). These results support the Dodecad 7B results I posted earlier. Not only do I get reasonable genetic distances with ancient Greeks, I also get matches on the MTA Chroma analysis as well. I apologize if the images are poorly presented, I had to do 3 separate snips.


120431204512044

Welcome to team @Palermo Trapani.
MTA is a interesting and fun website of genetics. They have a great number and variety of ancient samples and are advancing at each updated. Nothing in this world is absolutely perfect, but I think that they try to do the best to the users. Cheers :)

Carlos
06-05-20, 14:54
New results.
I get all the heads from Ullastret... Ilergetes?

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dasqtebvX_0/Xq4VcenG7rI/AAAAAAAADmY/kex8H63cstozQysle19E53F-apWcRIfqACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3323.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ylqsUMQqBoM/Xq4VgEvMb6I/AAAAAAAADmc/aiUBa9uFT8stdkyXo9cP-ivR25F2Af0wgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3324.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yrHcranUcL8/Xq4VlaqJAxI/AAAAAAAADmg/YwWdUNXtclANg_tBIICE8Cf5uwEPARKtwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3326.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xKoQb9rnCU4/Xq4VowmQl9I/AAAAAAAADmk/eNBjOP9JUL4rjv79FKlkYWtHcEZQuAGkQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3327.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a3aElkuOfTw/Xq4Vs1FpGpI/AAAAAAAADms/K0DRG9kV5nMpsKxVNgfS0i_W3UDksAkswCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I4251.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ic_ogqBg7sA/Xq4Vwi_ewFI/AAAAAAAADm0/VIoOOMiq10ch2jGEFFrEeb_o8kiOmU83ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I6534.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9YmbGcbgnqw/Xq4V0YCjHwI/AAAAAAAADm4/ZtlF8z18QKEPv8e4M4rkNiRVeb7G2sUSACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I6582%252CJPEG.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XV0fMLL9zUc/Xq4V3j86rzI/AAAAAAAADm8/7N6dlznI6d0A2uJE7otCouM2k14lrkJcQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/KVper3450-GE.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FsqUhcwAm_g/Xq4V6WDqnDI/AAAAAAAADnE/gTG1QQehMVkdGwhq7xuXo3FWgOBNNS_4ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/MX65.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u0WbE4497vI/Xq4V9QiiMjI/AAAAAAAADnI/BxW7XLPtpmcFDuWijr6c1laPI693dgbEACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PECH5.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cK6uD8PMgZ4/Xq4WAiu6mTI/AAAAAAAADnQ/HU-l3Aj5lf4ZIvJMl7HUb_ofotX5s_4OACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PECH8.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MUUdMLbZcv8/Xq4WEbwU6KI/AAAAAAAADnU/G2HVvsLy5ZMEYsw4sAjdjlI3-gbs0InCACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RIX2.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5JGtWIHnrNs/Xq4WLqLTzyI/AAAAAAAADng/1WmNtF9Xzh8NdSGVZxf05N-I0GKbyCQ6ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RIX15.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M-0zdooWGTw/Xq4WO9Ikz5I/AAAAAAAADno/aR1LxYhEnIEXFhVsYTpi6BpePsRyPc83wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/SIMPRA63.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fazRMvenIfA/Xq4WSX9a7YI/AAAAAAAADnw/p1pAfSI1b8MK7zaC-uawNV68brgxpxpxwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/SX18.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AJfMlxGXBdU/Xq4WWFALsPI/AAAAAAAADn4/a8_pJpcKmvoqWR6gqPCrGJylR49WUTy8gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/SX23.JPEG

Duarte
06-05-20, 15:29
New results.
I get all the heads from Ullastret... Ilergetes?

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dasqtebvX_0/Xq4VcenG7rI/AAAAAAAADmY/kex8H63cstozQysle19E53F-apWcRIfqACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3323.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ylqsUMQqBoM/Xq4VgEvMb6I/AAAAAAAADmc/aiUBa9uFT8stdkyXo9cP-ivR25F2Af0wgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3324.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yrHcranUcL8/Xq4VlaqJAxI/AAAAAAAADmg/YwWdUNXtclANg_tBIICE8Cf5uwEPARKtwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3326.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xKoQb9rnCU4/Xq4VowmQl9I/AAAAAAAADmk/eNBjOP9JUL4rjv79FKlkYWtHcEZQuAGkQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I3327.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a3aElkuOfTw/Xq4Vs1FpGpI/AAAAAAAADms/K0DRG9kV5nMpsKxVNgfS0i_W3UDksAkswCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I4251.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ic_ogqBg7sA/Xq4Vwi_ewFI/AAAAAAAADm0/VIoOOMiq10ch2jGEFFrEeb_o8kiOmU83ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I6534.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9YmbGcbgnqw/Xq4V0YCjHwI/AAAAAAAADm4/ZtlF8z18QKEPv8e4M4rkNiRVeb7G2sUSACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/I6582%252CJPEG.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XV0fMLL9zUc/Xq4V3j86rzI/AAAAAAAADm8/7N6dlznI6d0A2uJE7otCouM2k14lrkJcQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/KVper3450-GE.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FsqUhcwAm_g/Xq4V6WDqnDI/AAAAAAAADnE/gTG1QQehMVkdGwhq7xuXo3FWgOBNNS_4ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/MX65.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u0WbE4497vI/Xq4V9QiiMjI/AAAAAAAADnI/BxW7XLPtpmcFDuWijr6c1laPI693dgbEACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PECH5.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cK6uD8PMgZ4/Xq4WAiu6mTI/AAAAAAAADnQ/HU-l3Aj5lf4ZIvJMl7HUb_ofotX5s_4OACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PECH8.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MUUdMLbZcv8/Xq4WEbwU6KI/AAAAAAAADnU/G2HVvsLy5ZMEYsw4sAjdjlI3-gbs0InCACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RIX2.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5JGtWIHnrNs/Xq4WLqLTzyI/AAAAAAAADng/1WmNtF9Xzh8NdSGVZxf05N-I0GKbyCQ6ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/RIX15.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-M-0zdooWGTw/Xq4WO9Ikz5I/AAAAAAAADno/aR1LxYhEnIEXFhVsYTpi6BpePsRyPc83wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/SIMPRA63.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fazRMvenIfA/Xq4WSX9a7YI/AAAAAAAADnw/p1pAfSI1b8MK7zaC-uawNV68brgxpxpxwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/SX18.JPEG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AJfMlxGXBdU/Xq4WWFALsPI/AAAAAAAADn4/a8_pJpcKmvoqWR6gqPCrGJylR49WUTy8gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/SX23.JPEG

Good morning dear friend @Carlos (and @Salento too). Nice results, Carlos. I just have 125 samples in my MTA level (Zeus+). Between these 125 samples, we have these coincidences:

https://i.imgur.com/K5M8rNg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BfSfzQJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UAN0LQi.jpg

@Salento: As you can see, @Carlos is in a much more superior level of rich people. His is much more ‘plus’ then mine, LOL.

Cheers ;)

Salento
06-05-20, 15:43
Welcome to team @Palermo Trapani.
MTA is a interesting and fun website of genetics. They have a great number and variety of ancient samples and are advancing at each updated. Nothing in this world is absolutely perfect, but I think that they try to do the best to the users. Cheers :)

... wrong label, but SZ1 Trumps over, :) ... and over, ... lol

https://i.imgur.com/PSyju33.jpg

Duarte
06-05-20, 15:49
https://i.imgur.com/c0SJztg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/O8OwdFK.jpg

Wow. 100% Gallo-Roman, lol lol. They make labeling mistakes. @ Stuvannè had already warned about this. :good_job:

Salento
06-05-20, 16:39
Wow. 100% Gallo-Roman, lol lol. They make labeling mistakes. @ Stuvannè had already warned about this. :good_job:

... oops, I was cleaning the imgur pics and something went wrong, ... I re-uploaded the pic

... or: even the Gods disagree with the Label :grin:

Angela
06-05-20, 17:09
Everyone remembers that Ostrogoth Chief is closest genetically to a Pontic Greek, right?

As for the rest, can't play because I only paid for 50 samples. My match wouldn't be below 14 anyway, because that's where it cuts off.

Riverman
06-05-20, 17:34
This site is quite helpful for a quick check on the samples with a modern comparison:
https://ancientdnarelatives.blogspot.com/p/ancient-dna-samples.html

Don't know whether it was brought up before.

Examples:
My top Neolithic match = 23. Czech Bilina_N_Baalberge CWC (3600 BC) ..... 12.23

=


I6696 (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6457/eaat7487) Czech Bilina_N_Baalberge CWC (3600 BC)

1. North_German (11.38)
2. Czech (12.82)
3. East_German (13.06)
4. Danish (13.16)
5. South_Dutch (13.33)
6. German_Central (13.86)
7. North_Dutch (14.41)
8. North_Swedish (14.61)

Top Iron Age = 5. Western-Scythian Black Sea (290 BC) ..... 8.763

=


MJ34 (https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)30712-2) Western-Scythian Black Sea (290 BC)

1. Czech (6.024)
2. Austrian (8.750)
3. East_German (10.54)
4. Hungarian (11.74)
5. Croatian (13.01)
6. Slovenian (13.79)
7. North_German (14.10)
8. German_Central (14.77)

Archetype0ne
06-05-20, 17:44
Thanks for suggesting the site Riverman.


R36 (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/708) Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital (500 AD)

1. North_Italian (7.654)
2. Tuscan (10.36)
3. Portuguese (11.95)
4. Spanish_Galicia (12.55)
5. Spanish_Extremadura (12.56)
6. Spanish_Murcia (13.08)
7. Spanish_Cataluna (13.68)
8. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (14.10)

I4332 (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/135616v4) Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC)

1. North_Italian (7.591)
2. Portuguese (10.32)
3. Spanish_Galicia (10.33)
4. Spanish_Extremadura (11.85)
5. Spanish_Cataluna (11.95)
6. Spanish_Murcia (12.65)
7. Tuscan (12.74)
8. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (13.02)


I3313 (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/135616v4) Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC)

1. Spanish_Extremadura (6.749)
2. Spanish_Murcia (6.887)
3. Spanish_Cataluna (6.957)
4. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (7.206)
5. Spanish_Andalucia (7.233)
6. Spanish_Valencia (7.494)
7. North_Italian (7.731)
8. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (7.798)


Illyrian samples have a very peculiar affinity with Spanish... anyone has an explanation for this?

Edit: Even the Thracian sample for that matter:

I5769 Thracian Bulgaria (450 BC)

1. North_Italian (7.591)
2. Portuguese (10.32)
3. Spanish_Galicia (10.33)
4. Spanish_Extremadura (11.85)
5. Spanish_Cataluna (11.95)
6. Spanish_Murcia (12.65)
7. Tuscan (12.74)
8. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (13.02)

What is this genetic continuity that connects the Balkans to Iberia? Is there any historical factors that catalyzed this?

Edit 2: I am guessing Albania proper and Kosovo, North Macedonian Albanian populations are not in the reference populations since I do not see them mentioned anywhere on that site.

Riverman
06-05-20, 18:03
@ArchetypeOne: I think its at least not completely arbitrary and reflects the "pre-situation" before Greek, Roman, Germanic, Slavic, Hungarian etc. influxes. What this checks is obviously just a similar proportion of the main deeper ancestral components for the most part. These can be reached in different ways, like coming from one similar population or having two in a comparable mixture.

Palermo Trapani
06-05-20, 18:23
Salento/Duarte Thanks:good_job:. I was using the Ceasar level, as I noted, but after seeing your results and Duarte's with the Zeus level and MTA offering that nice discount could not resist the temptation so I got it. I must admit, after getting Zeus, they have the what I call "temptation disclosures" as they show you that you have other matches, but you have to upgrade to Lighting. It is kind of like when I was a young guy in college, "Spirit is willing, but flesh is weak" I hope the mods don't ding me for that one, it is all tongue and cheek.

Salento: Magna Graecia was in your neck of the woods in Puglia, but in mine as well. Selinunte sits on the Southern tip of Trapani, further North is Segesta, which while not on this map, has some ancient Greek ruins (Temple). The Colosseum there was built by the Romans, in the Greek style, and is still used today for plays and music concerts. I have some pics from both of those places, maybe I can post them in in the European travel thread. On my Fathers side, my paternal Great-grandfather was born in the Belice Valley North of Selinunte and do East of Segesta. I have working on family history and trying to document where all the Great-Grand parents came from, been able to trace some lineages back to the 1700's.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-en.svg

With respect to the Dodecad K7b distances I refer to in my post #2390, those are presented in my post #2010 in the "Minoans/Mycenaens" thread and I use the coordinates provided by Jovialis that he provided for us in his post #2006. I didn't want to edit my post #2390 after Duarte and Salento had already quoted it, much respect to both you guys for making me feel welcome here.

Cheers.

Archetype0ne
06-05-20, 18:25
@ArchetypeOne: I think its at least not completely arbitrary and reflects the "pre-situation" before Greek, Roman, Germanic, Slavic, Hungarian etc. influxes. What this checks is obviously just a similar proportion of the main deeper ancestral components for the most part. These can be reached in different ways, like coming from one similar population or having two in a comparable mixture.

So what these calculators do is compare similarities in the ratio of admixture components? Without discriminating where these components come from?
If so how useful are they?
Do you happen to know what the main difference between Gedmatch calculators and G25 calculators is? I do not know how to phrase this question since I lack the technical knowledge... but do they both just use PCAs to spatially plot samples then compare the distance of the plot? Say x person with parents from Portugal and Russia would plot as a central European ? With closest matches being say German, French, Polish etc or would the closest matches include Portugal and Russia?

Sorry if the question makes no sense... not sure I communicated properly.

Riverman
06-05-20, 18:42
So what these calculators do is compare similarities in the ratio of admixture components? Without discriminating where these components come from?
If so how useful are they?
Do you happen to know what the main difference between Gedmatch calculators and G25 calculators is? I do not know how to phrase this question since I lack the technical knowledge... but do they both just use PCAs to spatially plot samples then compare the distance of the plot? Say x person with parents from Portugal and Russia would plot as a central European ? With closest matches being say German, French, Polish etc or would the closest matches include Portugal and Russia?

Sorry if the question makes no sense... not sure I communicated properly.

I'm the wrong person to answer you the question comprehensively, I'm very bad on the technical level as well. But there is a simple truth to all these calculators: They depend on the algorithm and the samples they are using. If one fails, the other fails too.

An individual with ancestry from Portugal and Russia can plot, actually has to, on a lot of PCA's in Central Europe. But there are methods to distinguish these components, with statistical fits and tools like admixture. However, if there is no perfect source population, any algorithm can just choose the next best one.

The Thracians were already mixed people too, a mixture of steppe with Balkan populations. So any population with the same mixture shoudl plot similarly. What they tried to add at MTA is how much IBD sharing you have. If you combine both, its better. Yet for a lot of populations even that is a tricky thing. Just imagine how many Western European males came from the same R1b clan form the Bronze Age. They all share segments with these patriarch.
So how do you want to distinguish a Bell Beaker from a later Celt, if there was a difference? Much harder to do than to finding the difference between a Neolithic Sardinian and someone from Yamnaya. The closer a people are, the trickier it gets and the more detailed the analysis must be. Yet, many ancient DNA samples are, which makes it worse, of bad quality. So you can't even compare the whole variation, just a limited part of it.

So I think its fun and great to see, but there is always room for improvement. Not just for this tool, but even for the scientific evaluation. Like they still can't determine for sure how much archaic DNA might be in Subsaharan Africans. There are better and worse models, but without the real sample, which they might never get for some ancestries, all calculations are, so far, unreliable models. Even the Neandertal admixture calculated for modern people is just a model for the most part, because its based on a subtraction. But this only works out if the assumption of one population having zero Neandertal admixture is right. If, like some recent results and models suggest, Subsaharan Africans have Neandertal admixtue too, and if the Neandertal genome, which introgressed into modern humans, was more like Homo sapiens even before, than the H.n. samples used, you get completely different numbers.

Many results are therefore just preliminary, even for such important questions as archaic introgression into H.s.

Archetype0ne
06-05-20, 19:14
https://i.imgur.com/4ls8oFS.png

https://i.imgur.com/Dn9NVLJ.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/snvjuQO.png
https://i.imgur.com/PB1d863.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ahcwLMp.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/1dggaeo.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/SIxyR2q.png
https://i.imgur.com/r9H1CaZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/JJ4xX2p.png
https://i.imgur.com/Jp62zXa.png
https://i.imgur.com/exUYlJ5.png
https://i.imgur.com/pC07QDl.png

torzio
06-05-20, 19:44
no change for me

1. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 4.076 - R1 -
Top 99 % match vs all users


2. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 7.332 - SZ28 - ?
Top 99 % match vs all users

3. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 8.455 - OBS137 - ?
Top 99 % match vs all users

4. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 8.676 - SZ37 -
Top 99 % match vs all users

5. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 8.937 - I3313 -
Top 98 % match vs all users


6. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 9.36 - SZ1
Top 98 % match vs all users


7. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 9.695 - SZ36 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

8. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 9.874 - CL36 - ?
Top 98 % match vs all users

9. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 10.0 - scy197b -
Top 98 % match vs all users


Scythian are really Getae-Thracians from border modern romania-moldova as there are no scythians there in BC times...............

https://i.postimg.cc/FHGCJsVr/k15-new-map.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CRBs302X)

Stolfi1
07-05-20, 01:03
Hello All, I've been trying to figure out for the longest time where my French DNA comes from as my paper trail is Italy on my father's side (Southern Italy - Calabria and Basilicata region). My mother's side is English (paternal side has been here since the 1640's - his mother's side was German - surname Roraback) and her maternal side is Irish/Scottish and then German (only know that they had Prussia as the country they came from). I have cut and pasted my results from MyTrueAncestry and then my mom's and am wondering if anyone can read deeper into the results for me. What's strange is that I thought my father's side might have a Longobard connection, but it seems there might be a connection on my mother's side. Any information at all that anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated. I'm having a hard time deciphering the information in a meaningful way. Thank you in advance!

My results:

Gaul + Roman (2.732)
Roman + Frank (2.732)
Thuringii + Roman (5.018)
Gaul + Illyrian (5.796)
Thuringii + Illyrian (6.612)
Gaul (7.471)
Roman (9.088)
Illyrian (9.742)
Frank (9.996)
Thuringii (11.38)

1. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 7.471 - SZ45 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

2. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 9.088 - CL36 - ?
Top 98 % match vs all users

3. Frankish-Gallic Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 9.352 - SZ27
Top 98 % match vs all users

4. Medieval Piedmont (580 AD) ..... 9.621 - CL57 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

5. Relic French King Louis XVI (1793 AD) ..... 9.635 - LXVI -
Top 99 % match vs all users

6. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 9.742 - I3313 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

7. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 9.956 - scy311 -
Top 94 % match vs all users

8. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 9.995 - I12649 -
Top 99 % match vs all users

9. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 9.996 - CL47 - ?
Top 94 % match vs all users

10. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital (500 AD) ..... 10.18 - R36 -
Top 99 % match vs all users

11. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 10.35 - R1 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

12. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 10.36 - SZ1
Top 97 % match vs all users

13. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 10.78 - CL63 -
Top 88 % match vs all users

14. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 10.85 - OBS137 - ?
Top 98 % match vs all users

15. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 10.99 - CL94 -
Top 96 % match vs all users

16. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 11.01 - R55 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

17. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 11.17 - I4331 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

18. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 11.35 - I2515
Top 97 % match vs all users

19. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) ..... 11.38 - AED_1108 -
Top 95 % match vs all users

20. Spaniard Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 11.4 - I12515 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

21. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) ..... 11.46 - DA199 -
Top 95 % match vs all users

22. Medieval Tyrolian (580 AD) ..... 11.7 - CL53 -
Top 91 % match vs all users

23. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 11.74 - SZ28 - ?
Top 97 % match vs all users

24. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 11.81 - SZ43 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

25. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 12.04 - SZ18 -
Top 79 % match vs all users

26. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) ..... 12.08 - I12031 -
Top 94 % match vs all users

27. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 12.15 - I4332 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

28. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 12.17 - I2649
Top 98 % match vs all users

29. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 12.18 - scy197b -
Top 97 % match vs all users

30. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 12.22 - I12514 -
Top 96 % match vs all users

31. North Roman Warrior (590 AD) ..... 12.35 - NS3c - ?
Top 97 % match vs all users

32. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 12.47 - SZ36 -
Top 96 % match vs all users

33. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1120 AD) ..... 12.5 - I2514
Top 96 % match vs all users

34. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 12.51 - scy192 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

35. Medieval France Saint-Laurent-de-la-Cabrerisse (1348 AD) ..... 12.53 - SLC1006 - ?
Top 97 % match vs all users

36. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 12.67 - CL102 - ?
Top 75 % match vs all users

37. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague (1348 AD) ..... 12.79 - BSS31
Top 98 % match vs all users

38. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance (1650 AD) ..... 12.98 - R970 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

39. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 13.12 - I12163 -
Top 72 % match vs all users

40. Byzantine Roman Warrior (605 AD) ..... 13.33 - NS3b - ?
Top 97 % match vs all users

41. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 13.34 - I7425 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

42. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 13.42 - SZ32 - ?
Top 98 % match vs all users

43. Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 13.45 - I12647 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

44. Medieval La Palma Sardinia (941 AD) ..... 13.57 - I12221
Top 99 % match vs all users

45. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 13.63 - SZ37 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

46. Roman Empire Monterotondo (165 AD) ..... 14.02 - R1540
Top 98 % match vs all users

47. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 14.12 - R61 -
Top 92 % match vs all users

48. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 14.3 - I2647
Top 97 % match vs all users

49. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy (905 AD) ..... 14.31 - R60 -
Top 95 % match vs all users

50. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 14.38 - OBS116 - ?
Top 77 % match vs all users

51. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 14.48 - R1221 -
Top 88 % match vs all users

52. Jean-Paul Marat Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 14.58 - Marat -
Top 91 % match vs all users

53. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 14.78 - CL47b
Top 57 % match vs all users

54. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 14.87 - R33 -
Top 95 % match vs all users

55. Visigoth Frankish Girona (550 AD) ..... 14.94 - I12032 -
Top 41 % match vs all users

56. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) ..... 14.98 - I3981 -
Top 95 % match vs all users

57. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) ..... 15.09 - R1287 -
Top 96 % match vs all users

58. Roman Villa Tarragona (350 AD) ..... 15.25 - I6491 -
Top 95 % match vs all users

59. Roman Mix San Ercolano (500 AD) ..... 15.37 - R118 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

60. Crusader Knight Tuscan / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 15.39 - SI-41 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

My Mother's Results:

Visigoth + Saxon (3.149)
Viking Danish + Visigoth (3.782)
Viking + Frank (3.844)
Viking Danish + Frank (4.58)
Viking + Visigoth (4.663)
Frank (5.392)
Visigoth (8.51)
Viking Danish (9.203)
Saxon (9.369)
Viking (10.98)

1. Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 4.987 - G24 -
Top 99 % match vs all users

2. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) ..... 5.392 - SZ38 - ?
Top 97 % match vs all users

3. Medieval Netherlands Plague II (1360 AD) ..... 7.437 - Ber45 - ?
Top 86 % match vs all users

4. Frankish / Hungary (590 AD) ..... 7.668 - SZ23 -
Top 78 % match vs all users

5. Visigoth Frankish Girona (550 AD) ..... 8.411 - I12032 -
Top 88 % match vs all users

6. Germanic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 8.477 - SZ42 -
Top 63 % match vs all users

7. Colonial American Pennsylvania (1700 AD) ..... 8.499 - Shohola -
Top 83 % match vs all users

8. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 8.51 - I12163 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

9. Post Viking Denmark Odense (1250 AD) ..... 9.203 - G48 -
Top 65 % match vs all users

10. Germanic Medieval Denmark (1270 AD) ..... 9.326 - G119 -
Top 97 % match vs all users

11. Anglo Saxon (780 AD) ..... 9.369 - Hinxton HS3 -
Top 80 % match vs all users

12. Saxon Hinxton (720 AD) ..... 9.37 - HinxtonO1 -
Top 58 % match vs all users

13. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 9.535 - SZ18 -
Top 93 % match vs all users

14. Alemannic Bavaria (500 AD) ..... 9.541 - ALH_1 -
Top 74 % match vs all users

15. Late Medieval Gotlander (1600 AD) ..... 9.647 - Unknown
Top 70 % match vs all users

16. Bell Beaker England (2150 BC) ..... 9.676 - I1767 -
Top 61 % match vs all users

17. Celtic-Saxon Hinxton Iron Age (67 BC) ..... 9.73 - HI1 -
Top 59 % match vs all users

18. Bronze Age Covesea Cave Scotland (2000 BC) ..... 9.732 - I3132 -
Top 78 % match vs all users

19. Bronze Age Orkney Islands (1750 BC) ..... 9.766 - I2981 -
Top 65 % match vs all users

20. Post Viking Denmark Tirup (1200 AD) ..... 9.773 - G300 -
Top 71 % match vs all users

21. Swede Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 9.812 - G208 -
Top 94 % match vs all users

22. Germanic Lombard Szolad (590 AD) ..... 9.835 - SZ3 -
Top 87 % match vs all users

23. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 9.849 - I12162 -
Top 65 % match vs all users

24. Bell Beaker Germany (2500 BC) ..... 9.987 - I0112 -
Top 82 % match vs all users

25. Bell Beaker Scotland (2145 BC) ..... 10.17 - I5471 -
Top 63 % match vs all users

26. Young Merovingian Noble (605 AD) ..... 10.17 - NS6 -
Top 61 % match vs all users

27. Franco Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1215 AD) ..... 10.19 - R62 -
Top 89 % match vs all users

28. Nordic Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 10.24 - G53
Top 96 % match vs all users

29. Late Iron Age Linton Cambridgeshire (205 BC) ..... 10.28 - Linton -
Top 60 % match vs all users

30. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 10.35 - SZ14 -
Top 73 % match vs all users

31. Germanic Tribe Spreitenbach CWC Switzerland (2660 BC) ..... 10.5 - MX190 -
Top 78 % match vs all users

32. Ollsjo Battleaxe Sweden (2860 BC) ..... 10.5 - oll007 -
Top 66 % match vs all users

33. Alemannic Bavaria (450 AD) ..... 10.53 - BIM_33 -
Top 75 % match vs all users

34. Scotland Late Bronze Age (900 BC) ..... 10.53 - I2860 -
Top 60 % match vs all users

35. Cambridgeshire Iron Age (205 BC) ..... 10.63 - 15594A -
Top 62 % match vs all users

36. Bell Beaker England (2100 BC) ..... 10.71 - I2452 -
Top 62 % match vs all users

37. Celto-Germanic Medieval Denmark (1270 AD) ..... 10.73 - G21 -
Top 60 % match vs all users

38. Early Bronze Age Thames (1800 BC) ..... 10.73 - I5377 -
Top 58 % match vs all users

39. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 10.74 - CL63 -
Top 88 % match vs all users

40. Bell Beaker Scotland (2100 BC) ..... 10.74 - I2568 -
Top 64 % match vs all users

41. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 10.86 - SZ15 -
Top 59 % match vs all users

42. Viking Saxon Iceland (1104 AD) ..... 10.9 - TSK-A26 -
Top 64 % match vs all users

43. Bell Beaker Amesbury (2150 BC) ..... 10.92 - I5512 -
Top 75 % match vs all users

44. Zerniki Wielkie Bronze Age Poland (2175 BC) ..... 10.97 - I6583 -
Top 63 % match vs all users

45. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) ..... 10.98 - Sigtuna stg021 -
Top 69 % match vs all users

46. High Status Male Haunstetten (1946 BC) ..... 11.0 - POST_6 -
Top 61 % match vs all users

47. Viking Denmark Revshale (1080 AD) ..... 11.03 - Revshale16 -
Top 69 % match vs all users

48. Viking Sweden (1100 AD) ..... 11.03 - stg021 - ?
Top 68 % match vs all users

49. Late Medieval Icelandic Murderer (1678 AD) ..... 11.06 - KOV-A2 -
Top 60 % match vs all users

50. Celtic Briton Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 11.06 - 3DRIF-16 -
Top 64 % match vs all users

51. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 11.12 - SZ5 -
Top 93 % match vs all users

52. Bronze Age Celt England (1000 BC) ..... 11.15 - I5383 -
Top 59 % match vs all users

53. Alemannic Bavaria (500 AD) ..... 11.15 - ALH_10 -
Top 79 % match vs all users

54. Celt Hinxton Iron Age (45 BC) ..... 11.19 - HI2 -
Top 59 % match vs all users

55. Celtic Gladiator York (250 AD) ..... 11.19 - 6DRIF-21 -
Top 64 % match vs all users

56. Germanic Tribe Spreitenbach CWC Switzerland (2260 BC) ..... 11.2 - MX195 -
Top 79 % match vs all users

57. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 11.2 - CL102 - ?
Top 86 % match vs all users

58. Alemannic Saxon Bavaria (485 AD) ..... 11.23 - AED_249 -
Top 74 % match vs all users

59. Medieval Upper Bavaria Germany (1068 AD) ..... 11.3 - Petersberg -
Top 66 % match vs all users

60. Viking Celtic Boat Burial Iceland (925 AD) ..... 11.46 - VDP-A6 -
Top 60 % match vs all users

Riverman
07-05-20, 01:57
@Stolfi1 (https://www.eupedia.com/forum/members/101864-Stolfi1): Why do you think you have a specific French ancestry? Because of your MTA result? If so, your mother is just quite on the Northern/Northern Central/Germanic side of things and your father was probably mostly a typical more Southern Italian. If you mix these two components the end result simply imitates a Northern French/North Italian Lombard mix etc. So its not necessarily you have an actual recent French ancestry, your mix just approaches, more globally, that of many French. You ended up in a similar position because your family is the recent equivalent to the ancient mix. Or did you mean something else?

Salento
07-05-20, 03:09
Wow. 100% Gallo-Roman, lol lol. They make labeling mistakes. @ Stuvannè had already warned about this. :good_job:

@Duarte

just in case ..., I compared a couple of Kits.

yep ... my Ancestors didn’t get along with the Gauls at all :laughing:

https://i.imgur.com/zNJ3xJW.jpg

Stolfi1
07-05-20, 03:15
Riverman: I guess I'm curious about the French because it keeps coming up under my DNA results on sites (AncestryDNA and here) and it's not coming up for any of my full siblings or my mother. You're right that my father is a typical Italian (100% from Southern Italy mixed with some Spanish and Portuguese on the Calabrian line of his ancestry). I posted my results and my mother's results from AncestryDNA and here (mine are the ones with the Italian DNA). The French is the only thing that isn't making sense to me. Although, I thought I read that German and French DNA are hard to distinguish from each other, so maybe my French is really the same as my mother's German DNA (if that makes sense). I read that AncestryDNA's Northwest European results include some German. On a separate note, I'm surprised how accurate MTA is with their results - they seem pretty spot on.


My AncestryDNA results:

Italy 39%
Ireland/Scotland 26%
France 17%
Germanic European 8%
Greece & the Balkans 5%
English, Wales & Northwestern Europe 3%


My Results from MTA:


1. North_Italian (8.578)
2. Portuguese (10.94)
3. Spanish_Galicia (11.17)
4. French (11.46)
5. Spanish_Cataluna (11.78)
6. Tuscan (11.79)
7. Spanish_Extremadura (11.97)
8. Spanish_Murcia (12.33)


My Mother's AncestryDNA results:

England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 45%
Ireland/Scotland 44%
Norway 9%
Germanic Europe 2%


My Mother's MTA Results:
1. Flemish (5.441)
2. West_German (6.087)
3. South_Dutch (6.879)
4. North_German (6.943)
5. Danish (8.004)
6. Southeast_English (8.238)
7. North_Dutch (8.262)
8. Southwest_English (8.702)

Regio X
07-05-20, 03:43
no change for me

1. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 4.076 - R1 -
Top 99 % match vs all users


2. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 7.332 - SZ28 - ?
Top 99 % match vs all users

3. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 8.455 - OBS137 - ?
Top 99 % match vs all users

4. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 8.676 - SZ37 -
Top 99 % match vs all users

5. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 8.937 - I3313 -
Top 98 % match vs all users


6. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 9.36 - SZ1
Top 98 % match vs all users


7. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 9.695 - SZ36 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

8. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 9.874 - CL36 - ?
Top 98 % match vs all users

9. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 10.0 - scy197b -
Top 98 % match vs all users


Scythian are really Getae-Thracians from border modern romania-moldova as there are no scythians there in BC times...............

https://i.postimg.cc/FHGCJsVr/k15-new-map.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CRBs302X)
For obvious reasons, similar to mine here (https://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/K15map_zps0gjunrxj.jpg.html) (my mother is the green dot; my father, the blue; I'm the other). :)
That "Illyrian" and myself plot somewhat close to one another in this PCA, which is certainly related to our little distance at MTA's Oracle.

Palermo Trapani
07-05-20, 03:46
no change for me

1. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 4.076 - R1 -
Top 99 % match vs all users


2. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 7.332 - SZ28 - ?
Top 99 % match vs all users

3. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 8.455 - OBS137 - ?
Top 99 % match vs all users

4. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 8.676 - SZ37 -
Top 99 % match vs all users

5. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 8.937 - I3313 -
Top 98 % match vs all users


6. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 9.36 - SZ1
Top 98 % match vs all users


7. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 9.695 - SZ36 -
Top 98 % match vs all users

8. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 9.874 - CL36 - ?
Top 98 % match vs all users

9. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 10.0 - scy197b -
Top 98 % match vs all users


Scythian are really Getae-Thracians from border modern romania-moldova as there are no scythians there in BC times...............

https://i.postimg.cc/FHGCJsVr/k15-new-map.jpg (https://postimg.cc/CRBs302X)


Torzio: I really like that plot. Using my National Geographic DNA results, which they try to estimate ancestry from 500 to 10,000 years ago (there words not mine), it gives me a clear picture of where those reference popuations they use plot on your graph:good_job:

Salento
07-05-20, 03:47
@Stolfi1

The Calabresi are not a mix of Spanish and Portuguese,

Generally they're Italians, Southern Italians, and some Ancient Greek.

Palermo Trapani
07-05-20, 03:57
@Stolfi1

The Calabresi are not a mix of Spanish and Portuguese,

Generally they're Italians, Southern Italians, and some Ancient Greek.

I would concur with Salento on this.

Stolfi1
07-05-20, 04:53
Salento and Palermo Trapani: I won't disagree as I'm sure you both know more than I do. My Italian roots are from Avigliano and Verzino, Calabria. When researching ancestor's from Verzino, I am seeing alot of DNA matches with Portuguese roots - which I presume now is an anomaly. Also, many of them settled in Fall River, MA which has a very, very large Portuguese settlement. My brother's genetic profile on MTA was pretty different than mine (we are 100% full siblings). He shows way less Spanish/Portuguese than I.

Here's my brother's genetic profile:

1. Tuscan (11.09)
2. North_Italian (11.32)
3. Kosovar (12.56)
4. Romanian (13.12)
5. Bulgarian (13.93)
6. Serbian (13.98)
7. Greek_Thessaly (14.08)
8. Italian_Abruzzo (14.56)

1. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 9.006 - CL36 - ?
Top
99 %
match vs all users

2. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 9.082 - SZ1
Top
98 %
match vs all users

3. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 9.978 - SZ43 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

4. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague (1348 AD) ..... 10.21 - BSS31
Top
99 %
match vs all users

5. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 11.32 - SZ45 -
Top
93 %
match vs all users

6. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 11.35 - SZ36 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

7. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 11.52 - R1 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

8. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance (1650 AD) ..... 11.58 - R970 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

9. Byzantine Roman Warrior (605 AD) ..... 11.65 - NS3b - ?
Top
98 %
match vs all users

10. Frankish-Gallic Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 11.97 - SZ27
Top
93 %
match vs all users

11. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy (905 AD) ..... 12.09 - R60 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

12. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital (500 AD) ..... 12.33 - R36 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

13. Relic French King Louis XVI (1793 AD) ..... 12.5 - LXVI -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

14. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 12.71 - I12649 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

15. Roman Villa Tarragona (350 AD) ..... 12.75 - I6491 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

16. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) ..... 12.92 - I12031 -
Top
92 %
match vs all users

17. Roman Empire Monterotondo (165 AD) ..... 12.92 - R1540
Top
98 %
match vs all users

18. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 13.6 - SZ37 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

19. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 13.6 - I3313 -
Top
93 %
match vs all users

20. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 13.66 - CL63 -
Top
68 %
match vs all users

21. Medieval Piedmont (580 AD) ..... 13.68 - CL57 -
Top
89 %
match vs all users

22. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 13.8 - SZ32 - ?
Top
97 %
match vs all users

23. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 14.07 - I2515
Top
94 %
match vs all users

24. Crusader Knight Tuscan / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 14.28 - SI-41 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

25. Spaniard Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 14.33 - I12515 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users

26. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 14.34 - R55 -
Top
93 %
match vs all users

27. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) ..... 14.35 - AED_1108 -
Top
80 %
match vs all users

28. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 14.38 - SZ28 - ?
Top
94 %
match vs all users

29. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 14.43 - I4331 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users

30. North Roman Warrior (590 AD) ..... 14.49 - NS3c - ?
Top
95 %
match vs all users

31. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1120 AD) ..... 14.57 - I2514
Top
94 %
match vs all users

32. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1350 AD) ..... 14.66 - R1290 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

33. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 14.68 - CL47 - ?
Top
60 %
match vs all users

34. Imperial Rome Cluana Ancona (165 AD) ..... 14.8 - R835 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

35. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 14.87 - scy311 -
Top
64 %
match vs all users

36. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) ..... 14.89 - DA199 -
Top
79 %
match vs all users

37. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 15.05 - scy192 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

38. Medieval Tyrolian (580 AD) ..... 15.41 - CL53 -
Top
64 %
match vs all users

39. Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 15.42 - R107 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

40. Central Roman (580 AD) ..... 15.55 - CL121 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

41. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 15.55 - OBS137 - ?
Top
90 %
match vs all users

42. Hellenic Roman (590 AD) ..... 15.7 - SZ40 - ?
Top
96 %
match vs all users

43. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 15.71 - scy197b -
Top
93 %
match vs all users

44. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 15.71 - I12163 -
Top
47 %
match vs all users

45. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 15.82 - I12514 -
Top
92 %
match vs all users

46. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 15.9 - CL94 -
Top
88 %
match vs all users

47. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 15.93 - I4332 -
Top
93 %
match vs all users

48. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 15.95 - SZ31
Top
97 %
match vs all users

49. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 15.95 - SZ18 -
Top
44 %
match vs all users

50. Justinian Plague Victim (760 AD) ..... 15.98 - LSD021 - ?
Top
96 %
match vs all users

51. Hellenic Roman Marcellino (400 AD) ..... 16.04 - R136 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

52. Roman Mix San Ercolano (500 AD) ..... 16.16 - R118 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

53. Medieval La Palma Sardinia (941 AD) ..... 16.38 - I12221
Top
96 %
match vs all users

54. Medieval France Saint-Laurent-de-la-Cabrerisse (1348 AD) ..... 16.42 - SLC1006 - ?
Top
90 %
match vs all users

55. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance (1650 AD) ..... 16.61 - R969 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

56. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 16.63 - I7425 -
Top
93 %
match vs all users

57. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 16.75 - CL102 - ?
Top
42 %
match vs all users

58. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 16.82 - I2649
Top
92 %
match vs all users

59. Jean-Paul Marat Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 16.88 - Marat -
Top
79 %
match vs all users

60. Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 16.96 - I12647 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users

Here's my genetic profile again:

1. North_Italian (8.578)
2. Portuguese (10.94)
3. Spanish_Galicia (11.17)
4. French (11.46)
5. Spanish_Cataluna (11.78)
6. Tuscan (11.79)
7. Spanish_Extremadura (11.97)
8. Spanish_Murcia (12.33)

1. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 7.471 - SZ45 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

2. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 9.088 - CL36 - ?
Top
98 %
match vs all users

3. Frankish-Gallic Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 9.352 - SZ27
Top
98 %
match vs all users

4. Medieval Piedmont (580 AD) ..... 9.621 - CL57 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

5. Relic French King Louis XVI (1793 AD) ..... 9.635 - LXVI -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

6. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 9.742 - I3313 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

7. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 9.956 - scy311 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users

8. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 9.995 - I12649 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

9. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 9.996 - CL47 - ?
Top
94 %
match vs all users

10. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital (500 AD) ..... 10.18 - R36 -
Top
99 %
match vs all users

11. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 10.35 - R1 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

12. Bronze Age Szolad Hungary (1000 BC) ..... 10.36 - SZ1
Top
97 %
match vs all users

13. North Central Lombard (580 AD) ..... 10.78 - CL63 -
Top
88 %
match vs all users

14. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 10.85 - OBS137 - ?
Top
98 %
match vs all users

15. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 10.99 - CL94 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

16. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 11.01 - R55 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

17. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 11.17 - I4331 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

18. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 11.35 - I2515
Top
97 %
match vs all users

19. Thuringii Tribe (420 AD) ..... 11.38 - AED_1108 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

20. Spaniard Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 11.4 - I12515 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

21. Medieval Hungary / Balkan (1244 AD) ..... 11.46 - DA199 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

22. Medieval Tyrolian (580 AD) ..... 11.7 - CL53 -
Top
91 %
match vs all users

23. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 11.74 - SZ28 - ?
Top
97 %
match vs all users

24. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 11.81 - SZ43 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

25. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 12.04 - SZ18 -
Top
79 %
match vs all users

26. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona (550 AD) ..... 12.08 - I12031 -
Top
94 %
match vs all users

27. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 12.15 - I4332 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

28. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 12.17 - I2649
Top
98 %
match vs all users

29. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 12.18 - scy197b -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

30. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 12.22 - I12514 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

31. North Roman Warrior (590 AD) ..... 12.35 - NS3c - ?
Top
97 %
match vs all users

32. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 12.47 - SZ36 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

33. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1120 AD) ..... 12.5 - I2514
Top
96 %
match vs all users

34. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 12.51 - scy192 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

35. Medieval France Saint-Laurent-de-la-Cabrerisse (1348 AD) ..... 12.53 - SLC1006 - ?
Top
97 %
match vs all users

36. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 12.67 - CL102 - ?
Top
75 %
match vs all users

37. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague (1348 AD) ..... 12.79 - BSS31
Top
98 %
match vs all users

38. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance (1650 AD) ..... 12.98 - R970 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

39. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 13.12 - I12163 -
Top
72 %
match vs all users

40. Byzantine Roman Warrior (605 AD) ..... 13.33 - NS3b - ?
Top
97 %
match vs all users

41. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 13.34 - I7425 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

42. Central Roman (590 AD) ..... 13.42 - SZ32 - ?
Top
98 %
match vs all users

43. Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 13.45 - I12647 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

44. Medieval La Palma Sardinia (941 AD) ..... 13.57 - I12221
Top
99 %
match vs all users

45. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave (590 AD) ..... 13.63 - SZ37 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

46. Roman Empire Monterotondo (165 AD) ..... 14.02 - R1540
Top
98 %
match vs all users

47. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 14.12 - R61 -
Top
92 %
match vs all users

48. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 14.3 - I2647
Top
97 %
match vs all users

49. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy (905 AD) ..... 14.31 - R60 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

50. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 14.38 - OBS116 - ?
Top
77 %
match vs all users

51. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 14.48 - R1221 -
Top
88 %
match vs all users

52. Jean-Paul Marat Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 14.58 - Marat -
Top
91 %
match vs all users

53. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 14.78 - CL47b
Top
57 %
match vs all users

54. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 14.87 - R33 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

55. Visigoth Frankish Girona (550 AD) ..... 14.94 - I12032 -
Top
41 %
match vs all users

56. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) ..... 14.98 - I3981 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

57. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) ..... 15.09 - R1287 -
Top
96 %
match vs all users

58. Roman Villa Tarragona (350 AD) ..... 15.25 - I6491 -
Top
95 %
match vs all users

59. Roman Mix San Ercolano (500 AD) ..... 15.37 - R118 -
Top
98 %
match vs all users

60. Crusader Knight Tuscan / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 15.39 - SI-41 -
Top
97 %
match vs all users

Palermo Trapani
07-05-20, 05:17
Stfolfi1: So your ancestry on your Father's side is Italian from Calabria and your Mother is French/German ancestry. Do I have that correct? I am not sure this is the place to post your results, but the Eurogenes K36 calculator is one that I think has a function that you can model your Fathers Calabrian Italian ancestry and your Mothers French/German, and see what happens. Talk to some of the moderators about what are the strengths and weaknesses of the Eurogenes K36, if you have questions. I am pretty sure there is a forum to post your Eurogenes K36 results. It might be a way for you to sort out the question you are asking. There might be some other calculators that you could try, but I can't think of one off the top of my head. Maybe the Moderators can help you out.

Salento
07-05-20, 05:23
@Stolfi1

Often, these types of calculators have problems with mixed ancestries.

... for example: the child of an English father and an Italian mother from Naples will often get Northern Italian (a genetic middle road).

The Iberians that you get, imho could be a common ancestry with many Northern Italians, but in your case neither of the 2 are that legit. I Think :)

Duarte
07-05-20, 05:47
@Duarte

just in case ..., I compared a couple of Kits.

yep ... my Ancestors didn’t get along with the Gauls at all :laughing:

https://i.imgur.com/zNJ3xJW.jpg

@Salento. I remember that one of the first controversies about the label given by MTA to ancient samples was the labeling of samples from the early bronze age in Dalmatia as samples of Illyrians. It was suggested that they should be labeled only as 'Dalmatia BA'. However, MTA maintains the Illyrians label for these samples until the present moment, which means that my main ethnic component in the EBA are Illyrians. Taking advantage of the occasion, I post my MTA’s ‘Ancient Breakdown By Era’ of the Early Bronze Age, where, due to the two latest updates, the Rhaeti and Ligurians peoples appears.

https://i.imgur.com/WW5i3xl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jWxyK3c.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/J91bVSz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lohSXZg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6AvqghU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zQAlt7Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zgM5PWd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H40Ad0G.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/I6omLtN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TyuyCpO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9a3BGeZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PcqBz4w.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gXepEnT.jpg

Stolfi1
07-05-20, 05:55
Thanks guys! I have been trying to learn as much as I can about my ancestry and I think the MTA results are a bit over my head. The results on MTA do seem the most accurate of all the sites IMHO...at least far as the Modern Genetic Populations go. It's pinpointed my family pretty accurately...even the Portuguese on my Italian grandmother's side - which I know now was probably a more recent mix from only a few generations ago. I also found it interesting that a Longobard connections shows on mother's German side where I would have bet a million dollars that it would have been through my father's Italian side. That being said, thanks for your responses and information! :)

Duarte
07-05-20, 06:16
@Stolfi1
The Iberians (Portuguese and Spanish) have many ethnic overlaps with Southern and Southwestern French and Northern Italians. In my case, almost all autosomal calculators shows this overlap. MTA also is not an exception in my specific case
Cheers ;)


1. Roman Soldier Germany (300 AD) ..... 6.899 - FN_2
Top
99 % match vs all users

2. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 8.629 - CL94 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

3. Etruscan Civitavecchia (650 BC) ..... 9.714 - R474 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

4. Visigoth Iberian Girona (550 AD) ..... 9.859 - I12034-
Top
99 % match vs all users

5. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto (500 AD) ..... 9.945 - R33 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

6. Early Medieval Andalusia (760 AD) ..... 9.948 - I3585-
Top
98 % match vs all users

7. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 10.04 - I12514 -
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98 % match vs all users

8. Portuguese Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 10.34 - I12516 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

9. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany (300 AD) ..... 10.39 - FN_2
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99 % match vs all users

10. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 10.48 - scy197b -
Top
98 % match vs all users

11. Bell Beaker Haunstetten Germany (2385 BC) ..... 10.53 - UNTA58_68Sk1 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

12. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 10.6 - I4332 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

13. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 10.64 - I2649
Top
99 % match vs all users

14. Medieval Villa Magna Italy (990 AD) ..... 10.87 - R63-
Top
99 % match vs all users

15. Cueva de la Paloma Spain (2350 BC) ..... 10.99 - I3239 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

16. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1600 BC) ..... 11.0 - I4331 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

17. Western Scythian Outlier Hungary (550 BC) ..... 11.05 - DA198 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

18. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 11.25- R55 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

19. Iberian Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 11.44 - I7498 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

20. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1100 AD) ..... 11.49 - I2515
Top
97 % match vs all users

21. Le Mans Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 11.54 - LM_406_T -
Top
98 % match vs all users

22. Illyrian / Dalmatian (1200 BC) ..... 11.55 - I3313 -
Top
95 % match vs all users

23. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (1060 AD) ..... 11.62 - I10853 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

24. Roman-Era Empuries (47 BC) ..... 11.64 - I10866 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

25. Spaniard Cordoba Caliphate (1050 AD) ..... 11.65 - I12515 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

26. Vatya Bronze Age Hungary (1750 BC) ..... 11.72 - Rise483 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

27. Bronze Age Vatya Pannonia (1600 BC) ..... 11.74 - Rise480 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

28. Medieval France Saint-Laurent-de-la-Cabrerisse (1348 AD) ..... 12.01 - SLC1006 - ?
Top
97 % match vs all users

29. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 12.06 - I7425 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

30. Scythian Southern Moldova (270 BC) ..... 12.24 - scy192 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

31. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 12.25 - scy305 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

32. Gallo-Roman (590 AD) ..... 12.34 - SZ28 - ?
Top
97 % match vs all users

33. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (1060 AD) ..... 12.41 - I10852 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

34. Roman Villa Granada Spain (300 AD) ..... 12.42 - I4055 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

35. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (1060 AD) ..... 12.43 - I10851 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

36. Gallo-Roman Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 12.55 - R109 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

37. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 12.58 - OBS137 - ?
Top
96 % match vs all users

38. Rhaeti Tribe Wartau Switzerland (88 BC) ..... 12.59- SX18
Top
99 % match vs all users

39. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (880 AD) ..... 12.61 - I10895 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

40. Early Medieval Iberia Granada (500 AD) ..... 12.63 - I3981 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

41. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1429 AD) ..... 12.69 - R1287 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

42. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1120 AD) ..... 12.82 - I2514
Top
96 % match vs all users

43. Etruscan Civitavecchia (650 BC) ..... 12.87 - R473 -
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99 % match vs all users

44. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 12.9 - I2644
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98 % match vs all users

45. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol (2775 BC) ..... 13.03- I3499 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

46. High Status Male Haunstetten (2059 BC) ..... 13.05- POST_44 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

47. Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1355 AD) ..... 13.05- R61 -
Top
94 % match vs all users

48. Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 13.07 - R108 -
Top
91 % match vs all users

49. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1485 AD) ..... 13.07 - R1221 -
Top
93 % match vs all users

50. Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 13.1 - R105 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

51. Villanovan Etruscan Italy VGG (850 BC) ..... 13.12 - R1015 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

52. Carthago Al-Andalus Alhama de Granada (1200 AD) ..... 13.13 - I7457 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

53. Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 13.18 - I12644 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

54. High Status Burial Mound Haunstetten (2112 BC) ..... 13.22 - POST_50 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

55. Hispano-Roman Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 13.28 - I12647 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

56. Roman Villa Granada Spain (300 AD) ..... 13.41 - I3982 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

57. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 13.42 - I12649 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

58. Iberian Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 13.59 - I2647
Top
98 % match vs all users

59. North Roman Warrior (590 AD) ..... 13.6 - NS3c - ?
Top
96 % match vs all users

60. Thraco-Cimmerian Black Sea (900 BC) ..... 13.64 - MJ12 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

61. North Alpine Bronze Age (1794 BC) ..... 13.64 - AITI_43 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

62. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 13.86 - MX256
Top
99 % match vs all users

63. Relic French King Louis XVI (1793 AD) ..... 13.93 - LXVI -
Top
95 % match vs all users

64. Medieval Taifa of Valencia (1200 AD) ..... 13.96 - I12645 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

65. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 14.24 - I3582 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

66. Scythian Southern Moldova (290 BC) ..... 14.3 - scy300 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

67. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 14.38 - CL47b
Top
61 % match vs all users

68. Greco-Era Emporion (425 BC) ..... 14.41 - I8341 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

69. Medieval Cancelleria Basilica (1005 AD) ..... 14.42 - R1285 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

70. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital (500 AD) ..... 14.45 - R36 -
Top
95 % match vs all users

71. Medieval Piedmont (580 AD) ..... 14.49 - CL57 -
Top
86 % match vs all users

72. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (600 BC) ..... 14.59 - I4556 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

73. Marseilles Plague Victim (1721 AD) ..... 14.6 - OBS116 - ?
Top
75 % match vs all users

74. Vasconic-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 14.68 - R110 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

75. Ligurian Pech-Maho France (350 BC) ..... 14.81 - PECH5 -
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99 % match vs all users

76. Medieval Iberian (580 AD) ..... 14.82 - CL23 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

77. Late Roman-Era Emporion (550 AD) ..... 15.04 - I8343 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

78. Aquitani Pech-Maho France (350 BC) ..... 15.05 - PECH8 -
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98 % match vs all users

79. Scythian Moldova (290 BC) ..... 15.18 - scy311 -
Top
61 % match vs all users

80. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas (1290 BC) ..... 15.21 - I12208 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

81. Roman-Carthago Mix Empuries (150 AD) ..... 15.22 - I8475 -
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98 % match vs all users

82. North Alpine Middle Bronze Age (1563 BC) ..... 15.25 - OTTM_151ind2 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

83. Latin Tribe Inland BE (650 BC) ..... 15.3 - R1021 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

84. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro (930 BC) ..... 15.37 - R1-
Top
92 % match vs all users

85. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas (1290 BC) ..... 15.39 - I12209 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

86. Early Bronze Age Abisso del Vento Sicily (2073 BC) ..... 15.58 - I8561
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99 % match vs all users

87. Hispano-Roman-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate (950 AD) ..... 15.79 - I7497 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

88. Iron Age Catalan (680 BC) ..... 15.8 - I12641 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

89. North Alpine Bronze Age (1677 BC) ..... 15.89 - AITI_98 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

90. Medieval Tyrolian (590 AD) ..... 15.9 - SZ18 -
Top
44 % match vs all users

91. Late Copper Age Italy (2600 BC) ..... 15.94 - 9314_Oss
Top
98 % match vs all users

92. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 16.07 - I3807 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

93. Menorca Late Bronze Age (861 BC) ..... 16.15 - I3315
Top
99 % match vs all users

94. Carolingian Settlement Barcelona (790 AD) ..... 16.25 - I7676 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

95. North Alpine Bronze Age (1815 BC) ..... 16.25 - AITI_72 -
Top
76 % match vs all users

96. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis (990 AD) ..... 16.27 - I10892 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

97. Carthago Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) ..... 16.29 - R111 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

98. Iberian Settlement Catalonia Spain (250 BC) ..... 16.31 - I3496 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

99. Jean-Paul Marat Revolutionary France (1793 AD) ..... 16.32 - Marat -
Top
83 % match vs all users

100. Ostrogoth Mix (495 AD) ..... 16.39 - AEH_1 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

101. Celtiberian Mix Tribe Northern Spain (2300 BC) ..... 16.42 - I3238 -
Top
98 % match vs all users

102. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2030 BC) ..... 16.46 - MX283 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

103. Scythian Outlier Hungary (550 BC) ..... 16.46 - DA195 -
Top
92 % match vs all users

104. Bronze Age Singen am Hohentwiel (2000 BC) ..... 16.47 - MX254_2 -
Top
81 % match vs all users

105. Iron Age Catalan (620 BC) ..... 16.5 - I12640 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

106. Late Roman Iberia Granada (470 AD) ..... 16.54 - I3576 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

107. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 16.59 - SZ45 -
Top
66 % match vs all users

108. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan (440 BC) ..... 16.61 - I12878-
Top
98 % match vs all users

109. Crusader Knight French / Lebanon (1250 AD) ..... 16.73 - SI-40 -
Top
97 % match vs all users

110. Rixheim Bronze Age France (1750 BC) ..... 16.8 - RIX15 -
Top
83 % match vs all users

111. Post-Reconquista Granada (1550 AD) ..... 16.88 - I7423 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

112. Rugii Tribe Oder-Vistula (135 AD) ..... 16.9 - PCA36- ?
Top
59 % match vs all users

113. Central Roman (630 AD) ..... 16.93 - CL36 - ?
Top
90 % match vs all users

114. Mallorca Early Bronze Age (2350 BC) ..... 16.93 - I4329
Top
99 % match vs all users

115. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 16.94 - I3581 -
Top
96 % match vs all users

116. Celtoiberian Outlier Roman Empire VP (100 AD) ..... 16.95 - R116 -
Top
89 % match vs all users

117. Cueva de la Paloma Spain (2350 BC) ..... 16.99 - I3243 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

118. Ilergetes Outlier Catalan (440 BC) ..... 16.99 - I12410 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

119. Tartessian Archaic Andalusia (600 BC) ..... 17.02 - I12561 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

120. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada (500 AD) ..... 17.12 - I3577 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

121. Niedertiefenbach Western Germany (3200 BC) ..... 17.13 - Niedertiefenbach1 - ?
Top
99 % match vs all users

122. Latin Roman Isola Sacra (200 AD) ..... 17.21 - R37 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

123. El Sotillo Basque Country (1555 BC) ..... 17.22 - I1977 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

124. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy (580 AD) ..... 17.24- CL47 - ?
Top
40 % match vs all users

125. Bronze Age Northern Spain (1440 BC) ..... 17.32 - I2472 -
Top
99 % match vs all users

Stolfi1
07-05-20, 06:34
@duarte, thanks for your reply. Actually, it kind of makes some sense if the Portuguese/Spanish overlaps with French. I seem to be the only sibling (so far) who has inherited more of my Italian grandmother's Portuguese/Spanish DNA and that may account for me being the only one that is really seeing French as a result in my DNA tests.

Riverman
07-05-20, 11:41
Thanks guys! I have been trying to learn as much as I can about my ancestry and I think the MTA results are a bit over my head. The results on MTA do seem the most accurate of all the sites IMHO...at least far as the Modern Genetic Populations go. It's pinpointed my family pretty accurately...even the Portuguese on my Italian grandmother's side - which I know now was probably a more recent mix from only a few generations ago. I also found it interesting that a Longobard connections shows on mother's German side where I would have bet a million dollars that it would have been through my father's Italian side. That being said, thanks for your responses and information! :)

The Lombard samples are pretty diverse, with the "more pure" ones being more Northern than many modern Scandinavians are. So if someone gets a good match for the most Germanic Lombards from the samples in Hungary and Italy, it just means this person is particularly Northern European, rather than being related to modern Lombardy that much. But it depends on the Lombard sample in question, because some approach Scandinavians, others Southern Germans (slight admixture) and some Italians, even Southern Italians (local population element).

Salento
07-05-20, 15:33
... I must have missed the prior grandmother’s background ... :)




Often, these types of calculators have problems with mixed ancestries.

... for example: the child of an English father and an Italian mother from Naples will often get Northern Italian (a genetic middle road).

The Iberians that you get, imho could be a common ancestry with many Northern Italians, but in your case neither of the 2 are that legit. I Think :)

Carlos
07-05-20, 15:48
Target: Karlos_scaled
Distance: 4.2523% / 0.04252259
50.0 English_Cornwall
50.0 Sicilian_West

Seeing things that way then I am American which is where I most easily suppose this result could be obtained

American and rich of course, well that wherever he was.

Salento
08-05-20, 02:16
my Spinning Ancestry PCA

https://i.imgur.com/Q1LiZBf.gif


... and we haven’t stopped Spinning yet :grin:

https://i.imgur.com/mQIl6JR.gif

Salento
08-05-20, 02:26
Top 10 - 2 Kits

#
https://i.imgur.com/gy9razS.jpg

#
https://i.imgur.com/lTmFuIH.jpg

Duarte
08-05-20, 02:33
my Spinning Ancestry PCA
https://i.imgur.com/Q1LiZBf.gif
... and we haven’t stopped Spinning yet :grin:
https://i.imgur.com/mQIl6JR.gif

Very cool:good_job:....and I loved the beautiful girl :smile:

Salento
08-05-20, 02:37
Very cool:good_job:....and I loved the beautiful girl :smile:

me too :thinking: lol lol lol

Salento
08-05-20, 02:52
Very cool:good_job:....and I loved the beautiful girl :smile:


https://youtu.be/JOkxrPKzaGQ

Salento
08-05-20, 05:33
Crusader Knight SI53

Dodecad K12 vs MTA

https://i.imgur.com/igcOV8W.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CdAVMAu.jpg

Salento
08-05-20, 18:31
Mycenaeans:

https://i.imgur.com/BgoVje9.jpg

Apulia areas of Magna Grecia

https://i.imgur.com/1C6y4jV.jpg


The AncestryDNA Genetic Community of Puglia doesn’t include Magna Grecia.

AncestryDNA draws a border line in Puglia in what Magna Grecia used to be.

https://i.imgur.com/UwWc4kJ.jpg


... Salento is all alone :) ... :spiderman:

For AncestryDNA I’m 75% Italian and Zero Salentino :angry:

Riverman
08-05-20, 21:06
I know its a detail, but this map is not impressive:
https://mytrueancestry.com/img/Frank_Migration.jpg

Ostrogoths in Eastern Europe around 740 AD...

Salento
09-05-20, 06:31
Ancient Ancestry Map:
https://i.imgur.com/GkKnXqj.jpg


SZ1 (1000 BC) 79.63 cM (Totally Real) :grin:
R437 (Latin 300 BC) 29.76 cM :)

https://i.imgur.com/ESNYYCa.jpg

Carlos
13-05-20, 16:35
My last scream on Deep Dives
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qy7eJJQAEzc/Xrv_Brn2gLI/AAAAAAAADyE/Sq_FjmBTfjMkvJpEuuyQZt-c8xn6an4JQCEwYBhgLKs0DAL1Ocqyh5qJ16CLVok2zeKWb6Yxf I_cKRwGG6llBi-WYet5QTKmQj1qAmB3MXY_NIupzeNj7Z_25o4T12CPC_gjQmDAa HN14hkCOHNB-BVlrvlr-b8GNspMEuYJQBnvM7wEV9yxTbQsiMuoazgru3-xJR-XNLROVRs8D7Xlgnbmcw0LiWKXSIK28Kf101DG9LoUIWfkTVuwe 8fuprT5abD5hB07cyscmxY12bqv2KY4d4PRWmPryJbMEzhtRUG bdhKFQ4V8uwQ86FD1LN0iWXqyhBURPJh3P3WWs235ZCL9VtpbT FjyW9mpmaixG4SmZ1ATqIB2dv1oIY1jR_N8pfAJ2xDurolsiID XZ10Oh7mMOfGi1HRoRRFvj1qlGBSpnCrxsKL9oqSbAuND_qVS3 m8aNEYnb0nujUa1y7BpoNC5HXXG6RCGIbsUHPxlM7NL_HBwG4J m1CJPhPi0a7pQ9iwv8BxHln1tIkRX4HkeW6hC-RN8l094wZPlQQHwZ15CgIDXjhnYG5HzIKWKSCeQzD6-629VWHi6MsxP1FEsj9iwHo39DqBQhB1SZAgDzCd1GYCLUoDP3Y 6TEHrxhcZJow8LFAS1xgv26HrYe6aAwjITw9QU/s1600/MAPEdeepDiveAbril2020.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9LSliQRf_g4/Xrv-CTsml8I/AAAAAAAADxg/GIvjyJOEG5sCSqOcI3cctwssm076eL2UQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/MapeSegmentoBig.jpeg
My fattest Deep Dive within the material and the quality of the samples that exist, God knows what would be my fattest Deep Dive if the samples were of 100% quality
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aVo4FCvmsaQ/Xrv-g1H9U7I/AAAAAAAADxw/hELIWcAr02kuPmuTdepsSAsMsl-QMh_OQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/MAPEAncestry200Samples.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8tTDuZLNVVw/Xrv-IWeuPFI/AAAAAAAADxk/00DNLDX28ccd7lXughzhJnB0BA4qlKdugCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/MAPEAncestry30Samples.jpeg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8tTDuZLNVVw/Xrv-IWeuPFI/AAAAAAAADxk/00DNLDX28ccd7lXughzhJnB0BA4qlKdugCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/MAPEAncestry30Samples.jpeg

And some ages of man as random as the one who doesn't want the thing.


The group of people above must be Paris, they never leave, no matter what parameters they set. I say to see if I will have something to do with Paris, Toulus lotrec, Notre Dame and all that.

Palermo Trapani
13-05-20, 17:19
Salento/Carlos: Morning, saw you guys post MTA updated maps so went and re-uploaded my DNA and got my updated MAPS. Maps 1) Ancient Map, 2) Ancient relatives and 3) Closest relatives, I think is how MTA defined them. My map is pretty similar to Salento's, both of us having some ancient Greek and Thracian (We are Spartacus!). Carlos your map overlaps but with some as You said Parisian ancestry! If I am reading the map correctly, that looks close to the Normandy area where US, UK and Canadian forces landed on 6 June 1944, along with 3 Airborne Drops (US 82nd and 101st Airborne, and British 6th Airborne. Really nice maps Thanks for sharing.


120681206912070

Carlos
13-05-20, 17:48
@Palermo Trapani

Andalusia always there with the Italians

torzio
13-05-20, 20:01
Ancient Ancestry Map:
https://i.imgur.com/GkKnXqj.jpg


SZ1 (1000 BC) 79.63 cM (Totally Real) :grin:
R437 (Latin 300 BC) 29.76 cM :)

https://i.imgur.com/ESNYYCa.jpg


MTA should reassign the area Ardea as what they really are ......etruscans from the Rutuli tribe

Rutulī m pl (genitive Rutulōrum (https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Rutulorum&action=edit&redlink=1)); second declension (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Latin_second_declension)


An ancient tribe (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tribe) who inhabited a region in Latium (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Latium), modern-day Italy, whose capital was Ardea (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ardea)

torzio
13-05-20, 20:24
my new one

https://i.postimg.cc/fRsChtcT/new-mta-may20.png (https://postimages.org/)

only move the bar up to 1BC

Palermo Trapani
13-05-20, 21:29
@Palermo Trapani

Andalusia always there with the Italians

Ok, thanks for that information. One of the great things about this forum is meeting people from various places around the world and learning new information.

Palermo Trapani
13-05-20, 21:46
Torzio: I remember from the forums earlier this year on Antonio/Moots et al 2019 and the paper itself (p. 710) that R475 was described as an Etruscan. So reading your post #2437, R850 and R851 should also be described as Etruscans. Interesting. I am going to quickly go back and look at Dodecad 12B distances vs those 3 to see how I measure relative to these Etruscan individuals.

torzio
13-05-20, 23:01
Torzio: I remember from the forums earlier this year on Antonio/Moots et al 2019 and the paper itself (p. 710) that R475 was described as an Etruscan. So reading your post #2437, R850 and R851 should also be described as Etruscans. Interesting. I am going to quickly go back and look at Dodecad 12B distances vs those 3 to see how I measure relative to these Etruscan individuals.

I agree that R850 from Ardea should be etruscan, as Ardea was the Rutuli people, who are etruscans living in Lazio

not sure about R475
this below puts the marker next to sythian moldova and beyond that, the hungarians
https://web.stanford.edu/group/pritchardlab/publications/Antonio19.pdf

Palermo Trapani
13-05-20, 23:13
I agree that R850 from Ardea should be etruscan, as Ardea was the Rutuli people, who are etruscans living in Lazio

not sure about R475
this below puts the marker next to sythian moldova and beyond that, the hungarians
https://web.stanford.edu/group/pritchardlab/publications/Antonio19.pdf

Torzio: Thanks for the link, on page 708 of the paper, the Etruscan sample Size is N=3, so there are 3 of those ancient Samples that the authors are defining as Etruscans. The text states R475 is an "An Etruscan Individual. R850 is discussed just above the discussion of R475, whith no reference to Etruscan, and I don't see any discussion of R851. But it is clear there are 3 of those samples defined or labelled as Etruscans and I am glad you provided some information to help decipher who are the 3 Estruscans are as it is not clearly stated in the paper

In the Supplement, R473, R474 and R475 are maybe what the authors are considering Etruscans. But maybe it should be 4-5 Etruscans, R473, R474, R475, R850 and possibly R851.

Palermo Trapani
13-05-20, 23:34
I agree that R850 from Ardea should be etruscan, as Ardea was the Rutuli people, who are etruscans living in Lazio

not sure about R475
this below puts the marker next to sythian moldova and beyond that, the hungarians
https://web.stanford.edu/group/pritchardlab/publications/Antonio19.pdf

Not probably the place to post Dodecad 12B distances but among R850, R851, R473, R474, and R475, R850 is my closest distance at 13.23 Dodecad 12b, Eurogenes K13 is 12.1. So I hope this guy is an Etruscan, not too bad for a sample 2,500 years or so ago. I went back to MTA and the distance for R850 is 12.1 consistent with the 2 calculator results above and I share 5.97 CM of DNA with R850 so thanks for the information about R850 as an Etruscan. I need to do some research on the Ardea area of Lazio.

Salento
13-05-20, 23:43
my new one

https://i.postimg.cc/fRsChtcT/new-mta-may20.png (https://postimages.org/)

only move the bar up to 1BC

1600 BC - 1 BC (8 samples)

https://i.imgur.com/j7rL80v.jpg

torzio
14-05-20, 00:19
1600 BC - 1 BC (8 samples)

https://i.imgur.com/j7rL80v.jpg


some differences between us
you have ancient latins and a Greek .......and I do not have these ...................i have ancient north balkan people

also ....yours are all yellow bars ............I have at least a "100% confirmed blue bar "

Duarte
14-05-20, 00:21
The new map designs are really cool. Here are three maps showing my ancestral results. In terms of graphics, MTA is unbeatable so far.

https://i.imgur.com/Ytpr7v5.png

https://i.imgur.com/Ew18xeQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/IrlEW2m.png

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 00:25
Duarte: You and Carlos have some really, really, really, neat maps. Oh, did I say "really" Neat, just making sure:good_job:

torzio
14-05-20, 00:26
Not probably the place to post Dodecad 12B distances but among R850, R851, R473, R474, and R475, R850 is my closest distance at 13.23 Dodecad 12b, Eurogenes K13 is 12.1. So I hope this guy is an Etruscan, not too bad for a sample 2,500 years or so ago. I went back to MTA and the distance for R850 is 12.1 consistent with the 2 calculator results above and I share 5.97 CM of DNA with R850 so thanks for the information about R850 as an Etruscan. I need to do some research on the Ardea area of Lazio.


TARQUINIUS SUPERBUS succeeded to the throne (534-510). He was energetic in war, and conquered many neighboring places, among which was Ardea, a city of the Rutuli. He finished the temple of Jupiter, begun by his father. He also obtained the SIBYLLINE BOOKS. A woman from Cumae, a Greek colony, came to him, and offered for sale nine books of oracles and prophecies; but the price seemed exorbitant, and he refused to purchase them. The sibyl then burned three, and, returning, asked the same price for the remaining six. The king again refused. She burned three more, and obtained from the monarch for her last three the original price. These books were preserved in the Capitol, and held in great respect. They were destroyed with the temple by fire, on July 6, 83. Two men had charge of them, who were called duoviri sacrórum. The worship of the Greek deities, Apollo and Latóna, among others, was introduced through these books.
In 510 a conspiracy* was formed against Tarquin by BRUTUS, COLLATÍNUS, and others, and the gates of the city were closed against him.


[*Note: The cause of the conspiracy was the violence offered by Sextus, Tarquin's son, to Lucretia, wife of Collatínus. Unable to bear the humiliation, she killed herself in the presence of her family, having first appealed to them to avenge her wrongs.]


A Republic was then formed, with two Consuls at the head of the government.
Tarquin made three attempts* to recover his power at Rome, all unsuccessful.


[*Note: The victory of Lake Regillus, which has been painted by Macaulay in glowing colors, was gained over Tarquin in 509.]


In the last attempt (508), he was assisted by PORSENA, king of the Etruscans. They advanced against the city from the north. HORATIUS COCLES, a brave young man, alone defended the bridge (pans sublicius) over the Tiber until it was torn down behind him. He then swam the river in safety to his friends.
During the siege of the city, QUINTUS MUCIUS SCAEVOLA, a courageous youth, stole into the camp of the enemy with the intention of killing King Porsena, but by mistake killed his secretary instead. He was seized and carried to Porsena, who tried to frighten him by threats of burning. Instead of replying, Scaevola held his right hand on the burning altar until it was consumed. The king, admiring this heroic act, pardoned him. Out of gratitude, Scaevola told the king that three hundred other men as brave as himself had sworn to kill him. Porsena was so alarmed, that he made peace, and withdrew from the city. Mucius received his name Scaevola (left-handed) on account of this loss of his right hand.
Tarquin went to Tusculum, where he spent the rest of his days in retirement.
In 494 the plebeians at Rome rebelled, because they were exhausted by taxes and military service. A large part of them left the city, and crossed the Anio to a mountain (Mons Sacer) near by. The Senate sent MENENIUS AGRIPPA to treat with them. By his exertions* the people were induced to return to the city, and for the first time were allowed to have officers chosen from their own ranks to represent their interests. These officers were called Tribúni Plebis.


[*Note: Menenius is said to have related for them the famous fable of the belly and members.]


Two years later (492) Gaius Marcius, one of the patricians, met and defeated the Volsci, a neighboring tribe, at CORIOLI. For this he received the name of CORIOLÁNUS. During a famine, he advised that grain should not be distributed to the plebeians unless they relinquished their right to choose the Tribúni Plebis. For this he was banished. Having obtained command of a Volscian army, he marched against Rome, and came within five miles of the city. Here he was met by a deputation of his own citizens, who begged him to spare the city. He refused; but, when his wife and mother added their tears, he was induced to withdraw the army. He was afterwards killed by the Volscians as a traitor.

and

https://digitalcommons.conncoll.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=classicshp

Salento
14-05-20, 00:31
some differences between us
you have ancient latins and a Greek .......and I do not have these ...................i have ancient north balkan people

also ....yours are all yellow bars ............I have at least a "100% confirmed blue bar "

the yellow bars have a chromosome relation, ... notice the cM ... :)

Salento
14-05-20, 00:47
off topic

this new avatar looks like he is part of the cleaning crew. ... he’s holding a broom. lol

https://i.imgur.com/FjaZYxV.jpg

Duarte
14-05-20, 00:52
Duarte: You and Carlos have some really, really, really, neat maps. Oh, did I say "really" Neat, just making sure:good_job:

Yes Trapani. We are brothers. We have the same ancient origins :smile:
Thank you :smile:

Duarte
14-05-20, 01:18
off topic

this new avatar looks like he is part of the cleaning crew. ... he’s holding a broom. lol

https://i.imgur.com/FjaZYxV.jpg

Lol. Is he a crusader? If he is, so his mission was to 'cleanse' Jeruralen of the enemies of Rome's Church. :thinking::grin:

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 01:20
Lol. Is he a crusader? If he is, so his mission was to 'cleanse' Jeruralen of the enemies of Rome's Church. :thinking::grin:

Well let's say I agree with one of your Icons, probably not going to win friends of the modern Secular Left in the USA given the one I agree with:grin:

Duarte
14-05-20, 01:25
Well let's say I agree with one of your Icons, probably not going to win friends of the modern Secular Left in the USA given the one I agree with:grin:

LOL. :good_job::smile:

Salento
14-05-20, 01:54
yes @Duarte - its a Crusader :)

The Pandemic is a good time to Repent, ... maybe I was wrong and Hell is real :innocent:


Timelapse Map GIF

https://i.imgur.com/HtINKnS.gif

.... 2 Iron Age and 2 Medieval Age

Duarte
14-05-20, 02:23
yes @Duarte - its a Crusader :)

The Pandemic is a good time to Repent, ... maybe I was wrong and Hell is real :innocent:

Timelapse Map GIF

https://i.imgur.com/HtINKnS.gif

.... 2 Iron Age and 2 Medieval Age

Cool Avatar :good_job::smile:

Salento
14-05-20, 02:37
Cool Avatar :good_job::smile:
Thanks, ... got it from the MTA img.
I like to think he’s SI53 :)



https://i.imgur.com/WDCVvd0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HpHKIxw.jpg

Duarte
14-05-20, 02:50
Thanks, ... got it from the MTA img.
I like to think he’s SI53 :)

Yes, so cool. I was pleased to obtain these coordinates for the Vahaduo Dodecad K12b. It was a pleasant surprise when we found out, due to the fact that he is a small distance from you, that the crusader is from Apulia. He is a very close ancient cousin of you.

Salento
14-05-20, 03:28
Yes, so cool. I was pleased to obtain these coordinates for the Vahaduo Dodecad K12b. It was a pleasant surprise when we found out, due to the fact that he is a small distance from you, that the crusader is from Apulia. He is a very close ancient cousin of you.

thanks for that, ...

I ran out of + juice, I’ll + you tomorrow :)

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 04:35
Torzio: Thanks for the post, So the "Rituli" are now thought by modern scholarship to part of the broader Etruscan peoples from Tuscany to Latium. If they are not Etruscans, the Latins? maybe Ligurians? who got forced South?

Salento
14-05-20, 04:47
1600 BC - 1 BC (8 samples)
https://i.imgur.com/j7rL80v.jpg

some differences between us
you have ancient latins and a Greek .......and I do not have these ...................i have ancient north balkan people

also ....yours are all yellow bars ............I have at least a "100% confirmed blue bar "

the yellow bars have a chromosome relation, ... notice the cM ... :)
Maybe, the most Northern deep dive sample I get is a North Roman Warrior:

Culture: Merovingian
The Alemanni were a confederation of Germanic tribes located in the Upper Rhine basin...

https://i.imgur.com/tpdJODz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5OCouIF.jpg


... the Deep Dive samples related to the yellow bar:

https://i.imgur.com/Gf8MqA7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oPFedgW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tQcay19.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6Ew8Ejq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3y3h6Y9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KMAEkXh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BHEW6Me.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fFQQJXa.jpg

... and R436 - 100 AD, a paisano of R437 :)

https://i.imgur.com/I0sg4RV.jpg

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 06:44
Torzio: I went through some of the Source data on vahaduo.genetics and K13 has R473, R474 and R475 defined as Etruscan. Eurogenes K15 unfortunately does not have the Roman samples and Dodecad 12B does not have any of the samples labelled Etruscan. So I think as for as the Antonio/Moots et al 2019 study, the Etruscan Sample N=3 are R473, R474, and R475.

So maybe R850 is a Latin that took part in the Roman conquest of Ardea?

torzio
14-05-20, 07:27
Torzio: I went through some of the Source data on vahaduo.genetics and K13 has R473, R474 and R475 defined as Etruscan. Eurogenes K15 unfortunately does not have the Roman samples and Dodecad 12B does not have any of the samples labelled Etruscan. So I think as for as the Antonio/Moots et al 2019 study, the Etruscan Sample N=3 are R473, R474, and R475.

So maybe R850 is a Latin that took part in the Roman conquest of Ardea?


I think R850 is a rich trader that moved from crete or cyprus with the etruscan trading ships......settled on the coastal part of Ardea and became a "rutuli" citizen............I think Ardea was the only port in lazio area at the time .............I think lazio was under etruscan rule between 550Bc and 750BC

torzio
14-05-20, 07:30
Maybe, the most Northern deep dive sample I get is a North Roman Warrior:

Culture: Merovingian
The Alemanni were a confederation of Germanic tribes located in the Upper Rhine basin...

https://i.imgur.com/tpdJODz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5OCouIF.jpg
... the Deep Dive samples related to the yellow bar:
https://i.imgur.com/Gf8MqA7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oPFedgW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tQcay19.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6Ew8Ejq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3y3h6Y9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KMAEkXh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BHEW6Me.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fFQQJXa.jpg
... and R436 - 100 AD, a paisano of R437 :)
https://i.imgur.com/I0sg4RV.jpg

does not blue bars and dots mean ...confirmed match

Red dots and bars a slight match at best, and

yellow dots and bars ...a 50/50 chance for a match ?

Salento
14-05-20, 13:28
does not blue bars and dots mean ...confirmed match

Red dots and bars a slight match at best, and

yellow dots and bars ...a 50/50 chance for a match ?

imho the Thunder goes with the yellow line :)

Yellow Line = an Ancient Relative you share DNA segments with !!! (cM) (Deep Dive)!

Red Line = Matching Sample (Archaeogenetic matches...)

Blue Line = Matching sample from a Specific Civilization (Archaeogenetic Matches assigned to a Specific Civilization)

Salento
14-05-20, 17:24
R850 Latin Ardea 650 BC:
(file upload)

https://i.imgur.com/nY8JLeD.jpg

Ancien Ancestry Map:
https://i.imgur.com/alqgWUN.jpg

Closest Matches Map:
https://i.imgur.com/N7MdVdc.jpg

Ancestral Timeline:
https://i.imgur.com/RW0LNU5.jpg

Deep Dive Map:
https://i.imgur.com/tcg8W5f.jpg


Deep Dive
https://i.imgur.com/E236wOH.gif

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 17:37
Salento: Ok, thanks for the post #2466 above. I should have gone back and reviewed MTA. R850 is Y-DNA Haplogroup T1a which you are as well as Torzio I think, not sure if it is exact sub-clade, but you and Torzio are similar Y-DNA haplogroup wise (not that Y-DNA is the entire story). MTA classifies him as Latin, which I guess is probably based on the way Antonio/Moots et al 2019 classify him. I am interested in R850 because he is one of the oldest Ancient Roman samples that I also share DNA segments with although using Dodecad K12b, Eurogenes K13-updated samples, I am closer to R437 distance wise.

Salento
14-05-20, 18:18
Salento: Ok, thanks for the post #2466 above. I should have gone back and reviewed MTA. R850 is Y-DNA Haplogroup T1a which you are as well as Torzio I think, not sure if it is exact sub-clade, but you and Torzio are similar Y-DNA haplogroup wise (not that Y-DNA is the entire story). MTA classifies him as Latin, which I guess is probably based on the way Antonio/Moots et al 2019 classify him. I am interested in R850 because he is one of the oldest Ancient Roman samples that I also share DNA segments with although using Dodecad K12b, Eurogenes K13-updated samples, I am closer to R437 distance wise.
imho R850 is just a local Latin still retaining an Ancient Southeast common Ancestry.

I pay no attention to some of the extraordinarily detailed theories about R850 life ... lol

R850 Archeogenetic Map of Ancient Rome

Bronze Age: Sicily Beaker, Roman Republic R437 ...:

https://i.imgur.com/SoMrIJR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/raTlwMk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eotao65.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/f3jbdVq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6o8Qk5Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Y31wMTG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8Pg9KoY.jpg

Angela
14-05-20, 18:19
R850 is from 650 B.C. Italy is still tribal at that point. I would find it odd that anyone born and raised elsewhere, especially not even on the Italic mainland or Sicily would move to Rome as an adult and become a tribal Latin.

There would be a way to check. Does anyone remember if Moots did an isotype analysis to see if he was born or at least raised locally? Also, how much of that branch of yDna T is in Anatolia or the Aegean? How much of his mtDna is from the same area.

If he "was" born locally I suppose the mother could have been born elsewhere.

I think the most likely explanation is still the one originally advance, i.e. gene flow from the southern part of the peninsula, but the answer will to some extent depend on the nature of the Southern Italian samples from around the beginning of the second half of the first millennium B.C. when we have Greek colonization in the south.

torzio
14-05-20, 19:15
R850 is from 650 B.C. Italy is still tribal at that point. I would find it odd that anyone born and raised elsewhere, especially not even on the Italic mainland or Sicily would move to Rome as an adult and become a tribal Latin.

There would be a way to check. Does anyone remember if Moots did an isotype analysis to see if he was born or at least raised locally? Also, how much of that branch of yDna T is in Anatolia or the Aegean? How much of his mtDna is from the same area.

If he "was" born locally I suppose the mother could have been born elsewhere.

I think the most likely explanation is still the one originally advance, i.e. gene flow from the southern part of the peninsula, but the answer will to some extent depend on the nature of the Southern Italian samples from around the beginning of the second half of the first millennium B.C. when we have Greek colonization in the south.

Based on one-way qpAdmmodeling, R437 forms a clade with an individual from Croatia dated to the early Iron Age. In contrast, R850 forms a clade with an individual from Copper Age Anatolia. These two individuals both came from Latin archaeological context, together with four other samples, who can be modeled as two-way mixtures of Copper Age central Italian and Steppe-related ancestries.Two two-way models fit well for R437 and R850: RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA and RMPR_CA + Anatolia_IA.SG. In both models, the incoming source population is temporally proximate to the Iron Age Italian samples, and their geographic locations point to ancestry input from the Near East. Strikingly, R437 and R850 both carry more ancestry from the incoming source than the preceding local population, highlighting the substantial influence of this “eastern” influence on the genetic makeup of central Italians.

this is what paper states .............Incoming source instead of preceding local population ....ie, immigrants


he is T-L208.........and is the same as these 2 neoltihic samples which did not come from Anatolia ............I0700 (Bulgaria 5800-5400 calBCE) in Malek Bulgaria and I0797 (Germany 5500-4850 BCE) in Karsdorf Germany



https://i.imgur.com/0iV40Zu.png


R850_Iron_Age_Ardea,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0 ,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0


Jovialis spoke to Hannah Moots about it
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39653-Population-history-of-southern-Italy-during-Greek-colonization?p=596840&viewfull=1#post596840

Angela
14-05-20, 19:41
Based on one-way qpAdmmodeling, R437 forms a clade with an individual from Croatia dated to the early Iron Age. In contrast, R850 forms a clade with an individual from Copper Age Anatolia. These two individuals both came from Latin archaeological context, together with four other samples, who can be modeled as two-way mixtures of Copper Age central Italian and Steppe-related ancestries.Two two-way models fit well for R437 and R850: RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA and RMPR_CA + Anatolia_IA.SG. In both models, the incoming source population is temporally proximate to the Iron Age Italian samples, and their geographic locations point to ancestry input from the Near East. Strikingly, R437 and R850 both carry more ancestry from the incoming source than the preceding local population, highlighting the substantial influence of this “eastern” influence on the genetic makeup of central Italians.

this is what paper states .............Incoming source instead of preceding local population ....ie, immigrants


he is T-L208.........and is the same as these 2 neoltihic samples which did not come from Anatolia ............I0700 (Bulgaria 5800-5400 calBCE) in Malek Bulgaria and I0797 (Germany 5500-4850 BCE) in Karsdorf Germany



https://i.imgur.com/0iV40Zu.png


R850_Iron_Age_Ardea,7.30,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0 ,0.43,14.77,0,40.10,0

That doesn't in any way invalidate what I posted.

I was responding civilly to your post stating that R850 was a man from the Near East who followed Etruscan trade routes to land up in central Italy and get adopted by a Latin tribe.

Absent some evidence, that is fantasy; good for a historical novel, perhaps, but not science.

I suggested someone check (perhaps you) if an isotope analysis of R850 was done by the researchers. Absent that or something found in the grave (and I know no such thing was found) there is absolutely no evidence to support your musings.

As for your quote from the paper, that doesn't address in any way how this more Anatolian, Iran Neo heavy ancestry arrived in Central Italy. The authors, because they are scientists, don't pronounce on it.

My suggestion for one possibility is that this ancestry arrived in Central Italy perhaps either via a spouse from the Aegean, or a gradual movement up the peninsula of more Aegean admixed ancestry. We know it arrived in Sicily, why not Southern Italy, and why not then a movement up the peninsula?

Of course, if you find that an isotope analysis was done showing R850 was born and raised somewhere in the Near East, then that would change things.

Since you very often post about yDna T perhaps you or someone else can trace the trajectory of this sub-lineage or its immediate predecessor and see if Anatolia is even probable. If not, the more Iran heavy ancestry could be through mtDna?

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 19:48
Based on one-way qpAdmmodeling, R437 forms a clade with an individual from Croatia dated to the early Iron Age. In contrast, R850 forms a clade with an individual from Copper Age Anatolia. These two individuals both came from Latin archaeological context, together with four other samples, who can be modeled as two-way mixtures of Copper Age central Italian and Steppe-related ancestries.Two two-way models fit well for R437 and R850: RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA and RMPR_CA + Anatolia_IA.SG. In both models, the incoming source population is temporally proximate to the Iron Age Italian samples, and their geographic locations point to ancestry input from the Near East. Strikingly, R437 and R850 both carry more ancestry from the incoming source than the preceding local population, highlighting the substantial influence of this “eastern” influence on the genetic makeup of central Italians.

this is what paper states .............Incoming source instead of preceding local population ....ie, immigrants


he is T-L208.........and is the same as these 2 neoltihic samples which did not come from Anatolia ............I0700 (Bulgaria 5800-5400 calBCE) in Malek Bulgaria and I0797 (Germany 5500-4850 BCE) in Karsdorf Germany



https://i.imgur.com/0iV40Zu.png

Cooper Age to Iron age (Bronze Age between the two). So the incoming source is Steppe, the earlier source is more Neolthic EEF. I read the quote you had above from Antonio et al 2019 Moots (supplement page 11). Here is the rest of the discussion from the Supplement pp. 24-25. The only Iron age Roman that can be fit with a One-way model is the with a sample from Croatia, so up to the Iron Age, connection between Italy and Balkans is clear. From Cooper to Iron, some new ancestry "Steppe" comes in. R850 is related to an older Cooper Age Anatolian. R437 and R850 can be modeled as 2-way sources from Cooper Age Anatolia and Late Bronze Age Armenia and Cooper Age Anatolia and Anatolian Iron Age. So it appears these Pre-Iron Age Italians were EEF+CHG/Iran Neolithic type ancestry before Steppe came in. The closing paragraph is interesting, the 3 Etruscans and 6 Latins (as defined by the paper) are statistically not different. So I always like thinking of it in statistical terms that I am more accustomed to using. the Mean of Etruscans (N=3) and Mean of Latins (N=6) genetic ancestry are not different using a t-test to compare sample means or if you want Medians, you could use a Non-Parametric test using a wilcoxon rank statistic.

The quote from Supplementary of Antonio/Moots et al 2019 (pp. 24-25):

"The only well-fit one-way model is with an Iron Age individual from Croatia dated to 805-761 calBCE,
suggesting that this individual form a clade with Iron Age central Italians, with respect to all the
populations in the “right” set (ANC17). This result, together with those for Neolithic and Copper Age
individuals, points to tight connections between Italy and the Balkans from Neolithic to Iron Ages.

For the Copper Age to Iron Age transition in central Italy, admixture f3 and f4 tests both point to ancestry
input that can be ultimately traced back to west Eurasian Steppe (Tables S13 and S14). This is also
supported by admixture modeling results with qpAdm: most potential source populations in working twoway
models are Bronze or Iron Age populations directly from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, with one
exception being an Iron Age Pre-scythian individual (Scythian is a nomadic culture complex inhabiting in
vast areas of the west Eurasian Steppe and north to the Black sea) from Hungary.


In consideration of the inter-individual heterogeneity in this period in PCA and ADMIXTURE, we also
performed admixture modeling for each sample separately. Based on the qpAdm results for all Iron Age
samples collectively, we started by testing a two-way model with RMPR_CA and
Russia_Yamnaya_Samara as the source populations and found that it provides reasonable fits (p>0.05)
for eight of the 11 Iron Age individuals (Table S16) but can be rejected for R437, R850 and R475. We
therefore tested for these three individuals alternative one-way, two-way and three-way models, if none of
the simpler models fits.


Based on one-way qpAdm modeling, R437 forms a clade with an individual from Croatia dated to the
early Iron Age. In contrast, R850 forms a clade with an individual from Copper Age Anatolia. These two
individuals both came from Latin archaeological context, together with four other samples, who can be
modeled as two-way mixtures of Copper Age central Italian and Steppe-related ancestries.

Two two-way models fit well for R437 and R850: RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA and RMPR_CA +
Anatolia_IA.SG. In both models, the incoming source population is temporally proximate to the Iron Age
Italian samples, and their geographic locations point to ancestry input from the Near East. Strikingly,
R437 and R850 both carry more ancestry from the incoming source than the preceding local population,
highlighting the substantial influence of this “eastern” influence on the genetic makeup of central Italians
in Iron Age. Furthermore, the influence of this “eastern” ancestry is not limited to R437 and R850, as
R1016 and R1015 can also be modeled as RMPR_CA + Anatolia_IA.SG, and R1016 (but not R1015) as
RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA.


The location of R475 in PCA indicates that she (biological sex inferred based on sex chromosome and
autosome coverages) carries more Neolithic Anatolian or African ancestry than her contemporaries.
Further f4 analysis reveals that R475 shares more alleles with Moroccan hunter-gathers and less alleles
with Anatolia farmers, compared to other Italian Iron Age individuals. We were not able to model R475
with any one-way models or as any two-way mixtures with one source being the Copper Age location
population, but two three-way models with an African population as one of the sources provide
reasonable fits (p>0.03): RMPR_CA + Russia_Yamnaya_Samara + Mota and RMPR_CA +
Russia_Yamnaya_Samara + Mota.


Interestingly, although Iron Age individuals were sampled from both Etruscan (n=3) and Latin (n=6)
contexts, we did not detect any significant differences between the two groups with f4 statistics in the
form of f4(RMPR_Etruscan, RMPR_Latin; test population, Onge), suggesting shared origins or extensive
genetic exchange between them."

torzio
14-05-20, 20:00
Cooper Age to Iron age (Bronze Age between the two). So the incoming source is Steppe, the earlier source is more Neolthic EEF. I read the quote you had above from Antonio et al 2019 Moots (supplement page 11). Here is the rest of the discussion from the Supplement pp. 24-25. The only Iron age Roman that can be fit with a One-way model is the with a sample from Croatia, so up to the Iron Age, connection between Italy and Balkans is clear. From Cooper to Iron, some new ancestry "Steppe" comes in. R850 is related to an older Cooper Age Anatolian. R437 and R850 can be modeled as 2-way sources from Cooper Age Anatolia and Late Bronze Age Armenia and Cooper Age Anatolia and Anatolian Iron Age. So it appears these Pre-Iron Age Italians were EEF+CHG/Iran Neolithic type ancestry before Steppe came in. The closing paragraph is interesting, the 3 Etruscans and 6 Latins (as defined by the paper) are statistically not different. So I always like thinking of it in statistical terms that I am more accustomed to using. the Mean of Etruscans (N=3) and Mean of Latins (N=6) genetic ancestry are not different using a t-test to compare sample means or if you want Medians, you could use a Non-Parametric test using a wilcoxon rank statistic.

The quote from Supplementary of Antonio/Moots et al 2019 (pp. 24-25):

"The only well-fit one-way model is with an Iron Age individual from Croatia dated to 805-761 calBCE,
suggesting that this individual form a clade with Iron Age central Italians, with respect to all the
populations in the “right” set (ANC17). This result, together with those for Neolithic and Copper Age
individuals, points to tight connections between Italy and the Balkans from Neolithic to Iron Ages.

For the Copper Age to Iron Age transition in central Italy, admixture f3 and f4 tests both point to ancestry
input that can be ultimately traced back to west Eurasian Steppe (Tables S13 and S14). This is also
supported by admixture modeling results with qpAdm: most potential source populations in working twoway
models are Bronze or Iron Age populations directly from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, with one
exception being an Iron Age Pre-scythian individual (Scythian is a nomadic culture complex inhabiting in
vast areas of the west Eurasian Steppe and north to the Black sea) from Hungary.


In consideration of the inter-individual heterogeneity in this period in PCA and ADMIXTURE, we also
performed admixture modeling for each sample separately. Based on the qpAdm results for all Iron Age
samples collectively, we started by testing a two-way model with RMPR_CA and
Russia_Yamnaya_Samara as the source populations and found that it provides reasonable fits (p>0.05)
for eight of the 11 Iron Age individuals (Table S16) but can be rejected for R437, R850 and R475. We
therefore tested for these three individuals alternative one-way, two-way and three-way models, if none of
the simpler models fits.


Based on one-way qpAdm modeling, R437 forms a clade with an individual from Croatia dated to the
early Iron Age. In contrast, R850 forms a clade with an individual from Copper Age Anatolia. These two
individuals both came from Latin archaeological context, together with four other samples, who can be
modeled as two-way mixtures of Copper Age central Italian and Steppe-related ancestries.

Two two-way models fit well for R437 and R850: RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA and RMPR_CA +
Anatolia_IA.SG. In both models, the incoming source population is temporally proximate to the Iron Age
Italian samples, and their geographic locations point to ancestry input from the Near East. Strikingly,
R437 and R850 both carry more ancestry from the incoming source than the preceding local population,
highlighting the substantial influence of this “eastern” influence on the genetic makeup of central Italians
in Iron Age. Furthermore, the influence of this “eastern” ancestry is not limited to R437 and R850, as
R1016 and R1015 can also be modeled as RMPR_CA + Anatolia_IA.SG, and R1016 (but not R1015) as
RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA.


The location of R475 in PCA indicates that she (biological sex inferred based on sex chromosome and
autosome coverages) carries more Neolithic Anatolian or African ancestry than her contemporaries.
Further f4 analysis reveals that R475 shares more alleles with Moroccan hunter-gathers and less alleles
with Anatolia farmers, compared to other Italian Iron Age individuals. We were not able to model R475
with any one-way models or as any two-way mixtures with one source being the Copper Age location
population, but two three-way models with an African population as one of the sources provide
reasonable fits (p>0.03): RMPR_CA + Russia_Yamnaya_Samara + Mota and RMPR_CA +
Russia_Yamnaya_Samara + Mota.


Interestingly, although Iron Age individuals were sampled from both Etruscan (n=3) and Latin (n=6)
contexts, we did not detect any significant differences between the two groups with f4 statistics in the
form of f4(RMPR_Etruscan, RMPR_Latin; test population, Onge), suggesting shared origins or extensive
genetic exchange between them."


the Croatian is sample R437

torzio
14-05-20, 20:09
That doesn't in any way invalidate what I posted.

I was responding civilly to your post stating that R850 was a man from the Near East who followed Etruscan trade routes to land up in central Italy and get adopted by a Latin tribe.

Absent some evidence, that is fantasy; good for a historical novel, perhaps, but not science.

I suggested someone check (perhaps you) if an isotope analysis of R850 was done by the researchers. Absent that or something found in the grave (and I know no such thing was found) there is absolutely no evidence to support your musings.

As for your quote from the paper, that doesn't address in any way how this more Anatolian, Iran Neo heavy ancestry arrived in Central Italy. The authors, because they are scientists, don't pronounce on it.

My suggestion for one possibility is that this ancestry arrived in Central Italy perhaps either via a spouse from the Aegean, or a gradual movement up the peninsula of more Aegean admixed ancestry. We know it arrived in Sicily, why not Southern Italy, and why not then a movement up the peninsula?

Of course, if you find that an isotope analysis was done showing R850 was born and raised somewhere in the Near East, then that would change things.

Since you very often post about yDna T perhaps you or someone else can trace the trajectory of this sub-lineage or its immediate predecessor and see if Anatolia is even probable. If not, the more Iran heavy ancestry could be through mtDna?


Thanks ...............I only posted what others noted here and in other sites, like Quilles etc , what ever they found, be it with Hannah or whoever .............

I care little for the sample R850 as he is not from my branch ............his branch is different to mine, the difference is the same as R1a is to R1b.

I can accept your conclusion , i have no issue with it .................the question is , how long was he an Etruscan, never seen that he is called a Roman

Angela
14-05-20, 21:20
Thanks ...............I only posted what others noted here and in other sites, like Quilles etc , what ever they found, be it with Hannah or whoever .............

I care little for the sample R850 as he is not from my branch ............his branch is different to mine, the difference is the same as R1a is to R1b.

I can accept your conclusion , i have no issue with it .................the question is , how long was he an Etruscan, never seen that he is called a Roman

Who said R50 was an Etruscan???

R437 "is" an Etruscan.

You can't change the archaeological context of these samples just because you feel like it. Whether the Etruscans were rather similar to Bronze Age people from the Balkans is irrelevant. It just shows the ancestors of the Etruscans may have moved into Italy from the eastern side of the Alps. That may be true of the Italics as well.

If you have all this information about yDna T, then where is this sample's particular yDna T found? If it was long in Neolithic Europe, then the likelihood he immigrated as a grown man from Anatolia is even less.

If the people on the site where you got this information are this confused perhaps you shouldn't rely on their conclusions.

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 21:20
Ok, I thought they compared R437 to a Croatian sample. My bad, thanks for the clarification. So Eurogenes Top 25 for R437 using K13 Modern Updated samples are as follows. So at least 1 of those Iron Age Romans is genetically similar to Modern Sicilians and very close to Apulia, Molise, Campania, Abruzzo. Among Sicilians, seems more shifted towards Modern West Sicilian (my neck of the woods, ancestrally speaking) and then Basilicata, Calabria before Central Greek comes then followed by East Sicily. I will admit I don't know enough about modern Croatian DNA to speak but for my fellow Americans who follow Football, Croatia is the ancestral home of Bill Belichick, arguably along with the Great Vince Lombardi (American of Italian ancestry with relatives from Campania and Basilicata), the greatest NFL Coach in the history of the game. So pretty cool.



Distance to:
R437b_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Republic


5.96156020
Sicily


5.99169425
Apulia


6.54077977
Molise


6.64305653
Campania


6.98167602
Abruzzo


7.04230786
West_Sicilian


7.07317468
Basilicata


8.00281201
Calabria


8.00512336
Central_Greek


8.03797238
East_Sicilian


8.19987805
Malta


9.56499869
Lazio


9.84146331
Marche


10.28831862
Greek_Symi_Island


10.42845147
Greek_Andros_Island


10.45037798
Greek_Western-Thrace


10.76324301
Umbria


11.49563830
Greek_Chios


11.85400038
Greek_Dodecanese


11.89326700
Greek_Peloponnese


12.12562576
Romagna


12.49138503
Tuscan


12.91142517
Sephardic_Jewish


13.02632719
FrenchCorsica


13.08787989
Moroccan_Jew

Salento
14-05-20, 21:40
@Torzio ...

as I reminder: the much older Karsdorf samples (Germany) and R850 (Italy) are all T1a1...

R850 Dod K12

https://i.imgur.com/f1Rgs2j.jpg

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 21:44
Who said R50 was an Etruscan???

R437 "is" an Etruscan.

You can't change the archaeological context of these samples just because you feel like it. Whether the Etruscans were rather similar to Bronze Age people from the Balkans is irrelevant. It just shows the ancestors of the Etruscans may have moved into Italy from the eastern side of the Alps. That may be true of the Italics as well.

If you have all this information about yDna T, then where is this sample's particular yDna T found? If it was long in Neolithic Europe, then the likelihood he immigrated as a grown man from Anatolia is even less.

If the people on the site where you got this information are this confused perhaps you shouldn't rely on their conclusions.

Angela: My comment here is only for clarification and it is in the context of you as an Advisor. Earlier in a post, it was suggested that R850 was an Etruscan. There was some discussion about R850, respectful on all parts of which I was involved, as I and I think Salento both with respect to R850 get DNA matches on R850 from MTA chroma analysis. I had never heard R850 described as an Etruscan and the published paper (Antonio/Moots et al 2019) while defining 3 Samples as Etruscan, only discusses R475 as an Etruscan. So I was unclear as to what 3 samples were defined as Etruscan by Antonio/Moots et al 2019. So Torzio and I had several respectful posts and replies but in one post above (#2462) I noted that I went to the various Dodecad and Eurogenes calculators to see which 3 Iron Age Roman samples were defined as Etruscan. According to the Eurogenes K13 ancient spreadsheet, the 3 are R473,, R474 and R475

R473_Civitavecchia_Etruscan._Iron_Age,33.38,12.03, 31.63,0.41,18.38,3.34,0.34,0.42,0.06,0.00,0.00,0.0 0,0.00
R474b_Civitavecchia_Etruscan._Iron_Age,35.67,12.22 ,25.57,5.16,17.48,1.51,0.00,0.00,1.10,0.59,0.00,0. 71,0.00
R475b_Civitavecchia_Etruscan._Iron_Age,21.50,7.31, 32.84,0.00,26.37,6.15,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.10,4.3 0,1.44

So based on what I gathered, R850 is not an Etruscan nor is R437. If this Quilles etc group is claiming R850 and R437 are both Etruscans in public blogs, vs Latin Tribes, then one plausible explanation might, I repeat might, lie with the fact that both cluster closer to Modern Southern Italians (Sicily inclusive). This last statement I will say is purely conjecture on my part, not a statement of dogmatic fact.

Respectfully, PT.

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 21:55
@Torzio ...

as I reminder: the much older Karsdorf samples (Germany) and R850 (Italy) are all T1a1...

R850 Dod K12

https://i.imgur.com/f1Rgs2j.jpg


Salento: R850 very much related to many subsequent Imperial Age Romans and as you noted, T1 was around in older Karsdorf German samples, which I think I got reasonable distances for a sample that far back. I think it is from about 5,000 BC, similar to Otzi's age. Triggered me to go check!

Cheers, PT

Angela
14-05-20, 22:01
Angela: My comment here is only for clarification and it is in the context of you as an Advisor. Earlier in a post, it was suggested that R850 was an Etruscan. There was some discussion about R850, respectful on all parts of which I was involved, as I and I think Salento both with respect to R850 get DNA matches on R850 from MTA chroma analysis. I had never heard R850 described as an Etruscan and the published paper (Antonio/Moots et al 2019) while defining 3 Samples as Etruscan, only discusses R475 as an Etruscan. So I was unclear as to what 3 samples were defined as Etruscan by Antonio/Moots et al 2019. So Torzio and I had several respectful posts and replies but in one post above (#2462) I noted that I went to the various Dodecad and Eurogenes calculators to see which 3 Iron Age Roman samples were defined as Etruscan. According to the Eurogenes K13 ancient spreadsheet, the 3 are R473,, R474 and R475

R473_Civitavecchia_Etruscan._Iron_Age,33.38,12.03, 31.63,0.41,18.38,3.34,0.34,0.42,0.06,0.00,0.00,0.0 0,0.00
R474b_Civitavecchia_Etruscan._Iron_Age,35.67,12.22 ,25.57,5.16,17.48,1.51,0.00,0.00,1.10,0.59,0.00,0. 71,0.00
R475b_Civitavecchia_Etruscan._Iron_Age,21.50,7.31, 32.84,0.00,26.37,6.15,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.10,4.3 0,1.44

So based on what I gathered, R850 is not an Etruscan nor is R437. If this Quilles etc group is claiming R850 and R437 are both Etruscans in public blogs, vs Latin Tribes, then one plausible explanation might, I repeat might, lie with the fact that both cluster closer to Modern Southern Italians (Sicily inclusive). This last statement I will say is purely conjecture on my part, not a statement of dogmatic fact.

Respectfully, PT.

It was my error; I thought Torzio said R473, not R437. I must have transposed the numbers in my head.

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 22:10
Salento: Went to Dodecad 12B and ran distance to Karsdorf old sample. My distance is 22, which for a sample that old, not bad. For Otzi who is similar age, I get about 15 on MTA as I noted in another post and share some segments with Otzi (as you do) and both of us share segments with R850 per MTA analysis.




22.00682394
I0795_KAR6_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany_5207-5070_calBCE

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 22:11
Angela: Ok thanks. PT

torzio
14-05-20, 22:46
Who said R50 was an Etruscan???

R437 "is" an Etruscan.

You can't change the archaeological context of these samples just because you feel like it. Whether the Etruscans were rather similar to Bronze Age people from the Balkans is irrelevant. It just shows the ancestors of the Etruscans may have moved into Italy from the eastern side of the Alps. That may be true of the Italics as well.

If you have all this information about yDna T, then where is this sample's particular yDna T found? If it was long in Neolithic Europe, then the likelihood he immigrated as a grown man from Anatolia is even less.

If the people on the site where you got this information are this confused perhaps you shouldn't rely on their conclusions.


I was not talking about R50...I am talking about R850

Yes ydna T1a1 and T1a2 ( not T1a3 ) has been in Europe since the neolithic, what is your point ?...............as stated been in europe a very long time, time to move around and stop chasing red deer in karsdorf germany , or eating and raising doves in Malak bulgaria ...................i stated island of Crete which is what Jovialis stated in his admixture and his consultation with hannah ....................best you chat with Jovialis on sample R850

The only etruscans that could have moved via the eastern alps is only if etruscan are a branch of the umbri as they entered Italy from the eastern alps circa 2200BC ...................IMO, not sure ..........as I see Umbri and etruscans as the first "italians"

Umbri are also ( sabines, Sabellians, Samnites , south picene ) are all same ancient stock

torzio
14-05-20, 22:51
Salento: Went to Dodecad 12B and ran distance to Karsdorf old sample. My distance is 22, which for a sample that old, not bad. For Otzi who is similar age, I get about 15 on MTA as I noted in another post and share some segments with Otzi (as you do) and both of us share segments with R850 per MTA analysis.




22.00682394
I0795_KAR6_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany_5207-5070_calBCE




there are 3 T samples in Karsdorf

I0797 KAR16a T1a1a2-Y63197

and

sample KARS537
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197 (xBY154289) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y63197)
mtDNA: J1c6a

or check Malak Bulgaria as some state has Iberian mix


I0700 ( 7550 ± 200 yBP )
https://i.imgur.com/ttIqzx6.png
House: 13
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y63197/)
mtDNA: T2e


and


I1108 ( 7550 ± 200 yBP )
https://i.imgur.com/bDHTFV7.jpg
House: 4
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y63197/)
mtDNA: T2e



https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25778

torzio
14-05-20, 23:10
@Torzio ...

as I reminder: the much older Karsdorf samples (Germany) and R850 (Italy) are all T1a1...

R850 Dod K12

https://i.imgur.com/f1Rgs2j.jpg


yes , all 3 Karsdorf samples and the 2 Malak bulgarian samples ( all neolithic times ) are T1a1 branch


I think , our oldest T1a2 is Ipatovo 3 north caucasus ............then CL23 .....and lastly VK398 viking norway .................there is others but I cannot recall at the moment

Palermo Trapani
14-05-20, 23:21
Torzio: I think the sample in my post is the oldest one, is that not correct? I was only looking for genetic distances independent of Y-DNA Haplogroup, which it seems is more of the angle your post are focused on. From an Genetic Distance perspective, independent of Y-DNA haplogroup. R850 which is 650 BC Rome and I0795 from Neolithic Germany from 5,300 BC are using Dodecad 12B a distance of 27. So there is some genetic overlap between the Karsdorf I0795 and R850, my guess EEF type ancestry?

How close are I0795 and the other Karsdorf samples? Are they relatively close distance wise?

I am not Y-DNA T but my Distance for R850 using Dodecad 12B and Eurogenes K13 are 13.2 and 12.1, respectively. R437 distance wise is my closest 4.18 and 5.43,respectively. So while I don't share the Y-DNA Haplogroup of R850 or R437, autosonal wise I am relatively close to both and I share DNA segments with R850. My Y-DNA Haplogroup is I, specifically I2 (I-M223) so I am not sure Y-DNA alone tells the story, only partial story. I have not done any type deep clade analysis and I am not on Ftdna where I think that type of analysis can really be done well.

Angela
14-05-20, 23:35
I was not talking about R50...I am talking about R850

Yes ydna T1a1 and T1a2 ( not T1a3 ) has been in Europe since the neolithic, what is your point ?...............as stated been in europe a very long time, time to move around and stop chasing red deer in karsdorf germany , or eating and raising doves in Malek bulgaria ...................i stated crete which is what Jovialis stated in his admixture and his consultation with hannah ....................best you chat with Jovialis on sample R850

The only etruscans that could have moved via the eastern alps is only if etruscan are a branch of the umbri as they entered Italy from the eastern alps circa 2200BC ...................IMO, not sure ..........as I see Umbri and etruscans as the first "italians"

Umbri are also ( sabines, Sabellians, Samnites , south picene ) are all same ancient stock

I meant R850, as the flow of the conversation should have made clear, but ok. you got me; the key stuck and so it's a typo.

Every time I point out that one of your conclusions lacks proof you get defensive and then extremely snarky. Is it so difficult to say oh, I didn't consider that factor, or even, God forbid, I made a mistake.

I did it twice in the last three posts.

To get back to R850, surely I don't need to explain the difference between saying he is closest genetically to modern Cretans versus he is a man whom I "know "came from ancient Crete to central Rome around 650 B.C. to be adopted into a Latin tribe?

As for the importance of his yDna I would think it's obvious that if he carries a Ydna which has been present in Europe since the Neolithic that makes his origin on the male line in Iron Age Anatolia less likely, unless that sub-lineage is one which was present then or now in Anatolia. That's why I asked if you knew of other samples of the lineage from that area.

It's increasingly certain that the ancestors of both the Etruscans and the Italics and the Veneti and the Ligures came into Italy from north of the Alps. I think large migrations coming straight through the Alps would have been very difficult. That leaves migrations skirting the Alps either on the west or the east. I think from Hungary or places south and making an end run around the eastern Alps makes more sense. I think most scholars would see it the same way. They didn't necessarily all arrive in the exact same decade or whatever, for goodness' sakes. Ligures might be different. As we get more data we'll know more.

If you can't respond civilly and with data then don't reply at all.

torzio
15-05-20, 01:39
Torzio: I think the sample in my post is the oldest one, is that not correct? I was only looking for genetic distances independent of Y-DNA Haplogroup, which it seems is more of the angle your post are focused on. From an Genetic Distance perspective, independent of Y-DNA haplogroup. R850 which is 650 BC Rome and I0795 from Neolithic Germany from 5,300 BC are using Dodecad 12B a distance of 27. So there is some genetic overlap between the Karsdorf I0795 and R850, my guess EEF type ancestry?

How close are I0795 and the other Karsdorf samples? Are they relatively close distance wise?

I am not Y-DNA T but my Distance for R850 using Dodecad 12B and Eurogenes K13 are 13.2 and 12.1, respectively. R437 distance wise is my closest 4.18 and 5.43,respectively. So while I don't share the Y-DNA Haplogroup of R850 or R437, autosonal wise I am relatively close to both and I share DNA segments with R850. My Y-DNA Haplogroup is I, specifically I2 (I-M223) so I am not sure Y-DNA alone tells the story, only partial story. I have not done any type deep clade analysis and I am not on Ftdna where I think that type of analysis can really be done well.
The german and bulgarian T samples are all related, same branch and snps even though they/some might be a few hindred years apart

torzio
15-05-20, 01:44
I meant R850, as the flow of the conversation should have made clear, but ok. you got me; the key stuck and so it's a typo.

Every time I point out that one of your conclusions lacks proof you get defensive and then extremely snarky. Is it so difficult to say oh, I didn't consider that factor, or even, God forbid, I made a mistake.

I did it twice in the last three posts.

To get back to R850, surely I don't need to explain the difference between saying he is closest genetically to modern Cretans versus he is a man whom I "know "came from ancient Crete to central Rome around 650 B.C. to be adopted into a Latin tribe?

As for the importance of his yDna I would think it's obvious that if he carries a Ydna which has been present in Europe since the Neolithic that makes his origin on the male line in Iron Age Anatolia less likely, unless that sub-lineage is one which was present then or now in Anatolia. That's why I asked if you knew of other samples of the lineage from that area.

It's increasingly certain that the ancestors of both the Etruscans and the Italics and the Veneti and the Ligures came into Italy from north of the Alps. I think large migrations coming straight through the Alps would have been very difficult. That leaves migrations skirting the Alps either on the west or the east. I think from Hungary or places south and making an end run around the eastern Alps makes more sense. I think most scholars would see it the same way. They didn't necessarily all arrive in the exact same decade or whatever, for goodness' sakes. Ligures might be different. As we get more data we'll know more.

If you can't respond civilly and with data then don't reply at all.

I agree, they came in via central europe, but are any off shoots of each other.....akthough the ligures imo, cam via southern france

I am civil, i do not know what uou mean civilly

Salento
15-05-20, 02:51
R437 Latin 300 BC

Similarity Rate with Different Populations

... Salento / Puglia :grin:

It means that some of the Latins of 300 BC must have been somewhat similar to the Pugliesi / Apulians of Today,

... we should not assume that today’s Pugliesi are exactly the same as those of 300 BC.

... or maybe they are ... lol :)

https://i.imgur.com/pg4nN1b.gif
https://i.imgur.com/Kmj2mdJ.gif

https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm (https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm)

R437_Iron_Age_Praeneste,0,3.76,4.46,1.94,0,1.18,0, 0,5.13,0,0,14.54,0,0,5.51,9.17,0,23.54,0,7.86,0,3. 74,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,8.38,10.78

Palermo Trapani
15-05-20, 03:28
Salento: R437 K36 Coordinates. Thanks, So 87 is Puglia, looks like 81 is Lazio, 83 is Campania and 82 Calabria. In Sicily 82 is West Sicily, 81 East Sicily and 80 Malta. So R437 K36 is consistent with what you and I are getting on Dodcad 12B and Eurogenes K13 for R437 as well as MTA.

Good analysis and information. Thanks.

Palermo Trapani
15-05-20, 04:00
Torzio: I went and checked the samples you suggested vs my own Coordinates for Dodecad 12B Ancient and Eurogenes K13 ancient.

Dodecad 12B for I0795 (> 7,000 years old) and I0550 (4,400 years old). I0795 distance 22, I0550 distance 64.47. I could not find I1108 and I0700 in Dodecad 12B



22.00682394
I0795_KAR6_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany_5207-5070_calBCE





64.47326190
I0550_KAR22A_Karsdorf_LN_Karsdorf_Germany_2564-2475_calBCE



Eurogenes for I1108 (> 7,800 years old), I0700 (> 7,900 years old) and I0550 (4,400 years old). I could not find I0795 in Eurogenes K13 Ancient. I0550 is in both Dodecad and Eurogenes. I1108 distance 32, I0700 33.9 and I0550 53.



32.61796284
I1108_Bulgaria_MP_N_7875_ybp






33.99354792
I0700_Bulgaria_MP_N_1d.rel.I1108_7934_ybp





53.03751880
I0550_Germany_Karsdorf_LN_4471_ybp



So I am closer too the oldest German Sample and closer to the 2 older Bulgarian Samples than the more recent I0550. So what could explain the difference, well I think it would be fair to say I0550 had some recent ancestry that came in that I did not get as much of? I know the distances from Eurogenes are far off (all > 30), but the Dodecad for I0795 is not bad for a sample close to 7,200 years old.

torzio
15-05-20, 05:30
Torzio: I went and checked the samples you suggested vs my own Coordinates for Dodecad 12B Ancient and Eurogenes K13 ancient.

Dodecad 12B for I0795 (> 7,000 years old) and I0550 (4,400 years old). I0795 distance 22, I0550 distance 64.47. I could not find I1108 and I0700 in Dodecad 12B



22.00682394
I0795_KAR6_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany_5207-5070_calBCE





64.47326190
I0550_KAR22A_Karsdorf_LN_Karsdorf_Germany_2564-2475_calBCE



Eurogenes for I1108 (> 7,800 years old), I0700 (> 7,900 years old) and I0550 (4,400 years old). I could not find I0795 in Eurogenes K13 Ancient. I0550 is in both Dodecad and Eurogenes. I1108 distance 32, I0700 33.9 and I0550 53.



32.61796284
I1108_Bulgaria_MP_N_7875_ybp






33.99354792
I0700_Bulgaria_MP_N_1d.rel.I1108_7934_ybp





53.03751880
I0550_Germany_Karsdorf_LN_4471_ybp



So I am closer too the oldest German Sample and closer to the 2 older Bulgarian Samples than the more recent I0550. So what could explain the difference, well I think it would be fair to say I0550 had some recent ancestry that came in that I did not get as much of? I know the distances from Eurogenes are far off (all > 30), but the Dodecad for I0795 is not bad for a sample close to 7,200 years old.

Ran out of ticks.....so thank you

Not sure why you want to check on these old T samples, but uf you want to match salento, then sample CL23 is his T branch

Salento
15-05-20, 06:02
Ran out of ticks.....so thank you
Not sure why you want to check on these old T samples, but uf you want to match salento, then sample CL23 is his T branch

He can’t match me, ... and why me?
My branch is your branch!

my closest basic Y T match is SZ36 !

... was # 1 / 2 - now is # 4 / 5 at MTA.

... post #2426

Palermo Trapani
15-05-20, 06:14
Ran out of Ticks?, not sure the meaning. I was more looking at the distances, not the Y-DNA Haplogroups. As I noted while I don't have Y-DNA T1a, I am distance wise close to R850 and share DNA segments with R850. So if R850 is distance wise not to far from I0795, it does suggest something about the ancestry of those samples that obviously I share. Again I think you and I are evaluating these samples from different perspectives, you are looking at the Y-DNA T1a perspective, I am more interested in the overall genetic distance. As I said, I have not to date gone into figuring out who I match Y-DNA Haplogroups with, maybe I will one day. I have been more interested in overall genetic similarity relative to older samples. So from that perspective, I share DNA with R850.

So that is the context of why I ran the distance calculators for those Samples, not trying to match any of those samples or determine matches with anyone. I have been on Ancestry for 1.5 years or so and I have not yet or plan to make my DNA public. If I ever decide to go into the Y-DNA Haplogroup deep clade/branch analysis, I will do that with Ftdna, not Ancestry.

Sorry to bother you.

torzio
15-05-20, 06:31
He can’t match me, ... and why me?
My branch is your branch!
my closest basic Y T match is SZ36 !
... was # 1 / 2 - now is # 4 / 5 at MTA.
... post #2426
He was looking at apulia area, not my area

Plus you are are legend, not I

torzio
15-05-20, 06:39
@Torzio ...
as I reminder: the much older Karsdorf samples (Germany) and R850 (Italy) are all T1a1...
R850 Dod K12

https://i.imgur.com/f1Rgs2j.jpg
All the 3 karsdorf T samples and 2 bulgarians ones are all T1a1 and have the same snp......all are related, all kin, even though there might be a gap of hundred or so years