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Jovialis
19-05-19, 23:39
https://i.imgur.com/Jx35bPV.png

Here's mine

Salento
20-05-19, 01:54
Ancient Origins

Stuttgart, Loschbour, La Brana 1, Motala, Ötzi, Linear Pottery Culture, Corded Ware, Yamnaya (Steppe).

https://i.imgur.com/Z74B0Xn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hMNUthK.jpg

Dibran
20-05-19, 02:57
They should really update their ancient origins calculator with all the new samples that are confirmed. It would definitely add more layers to it, but that is probably asking too much from FTDNA.

Salento
20-05-19, 03:37
They should really update their ancient origins calculator with all the new samples that are confirmed. It would definitely add more layers to it, but that is probably asking too much from FTDNA.

Thanks, ... you’re right.

I decided to let MTA go too, because of the multiple negative comments about it.

... yep!

Duarte
20-05-19, 04:57
Thanks, ... you’re right.

I decided to let MTA go too, because of the multiple negative comments about it.

... yep!

I do not like of this application. It's more than known that many Iberians have 5 ~ 9% of ancestrality from North Africa, which FTDNA classify as Middle Eastern. This is not good for those Iberians that have some north african ancestrality (of course, not all have, mainly in northeast) or people of other parts of world with some non european ancestrality. Too bad.

https://i.imgur.com/JF21fzt.png
https://i.imgur.com/JWz50O0.png
https://i.imgur.com/MwSWwmF.png
https://i.imgur.com/0FaGe3Y.png
https://i.imgur.com/rnifvxS.png
https://i.imgur.com/cs2QAA4.png
https://i.imgur.com/Nu5ypiF.png
https://i.imgur.com/cPfHVqO.png

Salento
20-05-19, 05:57
@Duarte

As paying customers of these products, our expectations are rarely met.

We’re aware of the limitations, and unrealistic demands.

I guess ..... it’s a work-in-progress ...

Jovialis
20-05-19, 07:00
https://i.imgur.com/Jx35bPV.png

Here's mine

https://i.imgur.com/sSSjdyO.png

I think it looks kind of similar to the results I get for the old Geneplaza K12 Ancient DNA calculator. It has it almost exactly the same for "Steppe Cultures", and "Metal age invaders". Also, perhaps the WHG in the farmer samples used in the "Ancient Farmer" samples, is un-subsumed in FTDNA. Which could be counted towards the 6.2% WHG admixture I get under "Western European, and Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherers".

Regio X
20-05-19, 18:35
https://i.imgur.com/sSSjdyO.png
I think it looks kind of similar to the results I get for the old Geneplaza K12 Ancient DNA calculator. It has it almost exactly the same for "Steppe Cultures", and "Metal age invaders". Also, perhaps the WHG in the farmer samples used in the "Ancient Farmer" samples, is un-subsumed in FTDNA. Which could be counted towards the 6.2% WHG admixture I get under "Western European, and Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherers".Jovialis, it must be a coincidence. If my memory serves, FTDNA must consider Metal Age Invaders as West Asians (Iran Neo? CHG?) mainly, which probably help to explain the low % Iberians generally get. Reason why South Italians tend to score higher Metal Age % in this calculator, comparatively to North Italians. For example, I get 16% of Metal invaders, 56% of farmer and 28% Hunter-Gatherer, while Sile got 16, 54 and 30, respectively. My parents haven't tested at FTDNA, but I assume they would get even lower Metal, but higher WHG. Especially my mother, I guess; possibly lower Metal than me and higher WHG than Sile.
It seems there were people in Afghanistan getting 60% of Metal Age Invaders in this calculator, so it must be pretty different from GenePlaza.

Jovialis
20-05-19, 18:48
Thanks for the insight!

Regio X
20-05-19, 18:57
My son also tested at FTDNA. He's just 75% North Italian, and the other part is mainly Iberian, so he gets even less Metal than me:
12% Metal
58% Farmer
30% WHG

I wonder how much Metal % a Basque would get, since they usually have very, very low West Asian admix.

hrvclv
20-05-19, 19:00
Jovialis, it must be a coincidence. If my memory serves, FTDNA must consider Metal Age Invaders as West Asians (Iran Neo? CHG?) mainly, which probably help to explain the low % Iberians generally get. Reason why South Italians tend to score higher Metal Age % in this calculator, comparatively to North Italians. For example, I get 16% of Metal invaders, 56% of farmer and 28% Hunter-Gatherer, while Sile got 16, 54 and 30, respectively. My parents haven't tested at FTDNA, but I assume they would get even lower Metal, but higher WHG. Especially my mother, I guess; possibly lower Metal than me and higher WHG than Sile.
It seems there were people in Afghanistan getting 60% of Metal Age Invaders in this calculator, so it must be pretty different from GenePlaza.

I agree. My own FTDNA results seem to confirm your assumption :

Farmer : 52
WHG : 39
Metal : 9

9% is about the Southwest Asian/CHG I get on most calculators.

Regio X
20-05-19, 19:05
I agree. My own FTDNA results seem to confirm your assumption :
Farmer : 52
WHG : 39
Metal : 9
9% is about the Southwest Asian/CHG I get on most calculators.Here you have some more references:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9060-FTDNA-ancientOrigins

hrvclv
20-05-19, 19:32
Here you have some more references:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9060-FTDNA-ancientOrigins

Very useful. Thanks.

Jovialis
20-05-19, 19:33
I just realized that the 17% metal age invader plus the 60% farmer, is comparable to the 77% ancient farmer score on geneplaza. The K12 calculator included CHG with the farmers.

hrvclv
20-05-19, 20:05
Also wondering :

- Apparently FTDNA isolated the CHG share out of the overall Steppe ancestry mix, and merged it with the CHG we inherited via the "southern route".

- Our levels of WHG are rather high, which doesn't seem to fit in well with the percentages of WHG which survived in Neolithic farmer pops, even if we take into account the WHG "resurgence".

- Maybe these high WHG scores include part of the "WHG-compatible" genes found in Steppe genomes (?).

- If such is the case, what became of the EHG/ANE element? Negliglible in western Europe?

Duarte
20-05-19, 21:23
I do not like of this application. It's more than known that many Iberians have 5 ~ 9% of ancestrality from North Africa, which FTDNA classify as Middle Eastern. This is not good for those Iberians that have some north african ancestrality (of course, not all have, mainly in northeast) or people of other parts of world with some non european ancestrality. Too bad.

https://i.imgur.com/JF21fzt.png
https://i.imgur.com/JWz50O0.png
https://i.imgur.com/MwSWwmF.png
https://i.imgur.com/0FaGe3Y.png
https://i.imgur.com/rnifvxS.png
https://i.imgur.com/cs2QAA4.png
https://i.imgur.com/Nu5ypiF.png
https://i.imgur.com/cPfHVqO.png

https://i.imgur.com/uGogSLB.png
https://i.imgur.com/Ja2N3lL.png

Wheal
20-05-19, 21:38
It seems confusing. This is my father's.11087

Salento
21-05-19, 01:33
I don't know if it makes any difference:

The results I posted are not FTDNA original, ... are from a Raw-Data upload.

Regio X
21-05-19, 02:09
Also wondering :
- Apparently FTDNA isolated the CHG share out of the overall Steppe ancestry mix, and merged it with the CHG we inherited via the "southern route".
- Our levels of WHG are rather high, which doesn't seem to fit in well with the percentages of WHG which survived in Neolithic farmer pops, even if we take into account the WHG "resurgence".
- Maybe these high WHG scores include part of the "WHG-compatible" genes found in Steppe genomes (?).
- If such is the case, what became of the EHG/ANE element? Negliglible in western Europe?Well, not sure, but I presume the EHG is there as WHG, yeah, and the Iran Neo + CHG possibly as Metal Age Invaders? ANE is older, and it's associated to both EHG and CHG, I guess. Anyway, it's just odd. Not exactly coherent. I mean, they're perhaps considering Iran Neo as the main component of Indo-Europeans, while in the competitor theory it's Steppe ancestry. No problem. I respect both as possible scenarios. What I think it's odd is that they supposedly use as genetic reference Iran Neo/CHG and as cultural references Corded Ware and Yamnaya, if I read right the image Duarte posted. That's what doesn't seem to make sense. These two types of reference don't fit each other.

Stuvanè
21-05-19, 14:31
Here my results.
The same as Salento: not FTDNA original, but from a Raw-Data (23andMe) upload


https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/61350750_439423769961499_3270400313508495360_n.png ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=ba1e28fd976f785ddd9d436344f6a15e&oe=5D5CE66B

Duarte
21-05-19, 22:10
Well, not sure, but I presume the EHG is there as WHG, yeah, and the Iran Neo + CHG possibly as Metal Age Invaders? ANE is older, and it's associated to both EHG and CHG, I guess. Anyway, it's just odd. Not exactly coherent. I mean, they're perhaps considering Iran Neo as the main component of Indo-Europeans, while in the competitor theory it's Steppe ancestry. No problem. I respect both as possible scenarios. What I think it's odd is that they supposedly use as genetic reference Iran Neo/CHG and as cultural references Corded Ware and Yamnaya, if I read right the image Duarte posted. That's what doesn't seem to make sense. These two types of reference don't fit each other.

Hello Regio X :smile:
If you compare the values presented to southern Europeans not Iberians (for example, Italians, Greeks, Albanians) by the "FTDNA MyAncientEuropeanOrigins" with the values presented by the GEDmatch Eurogenes HGvF calculator, you will conclude that the "FTDNA MyAncientEuropeanOrigins" values presented to "Metal Age Invader" are inflated by the values of "Anatolian Farmer", and the "FTDNA MyAncientEuropeanOrigins" values presented to "Farmer" are inflated by the values of the "Middle Eastern Herder". Check it. :good_job:
Hugs.

Regio X
23-05-19, 01:34
Hello Regio X :smile:
If you compare the values presented to southern Europeans not Iberians (for example, Italians, Greeks, Albanians) by the "FTDNA MyAncientEuropeanOrigins" with the values presented by the GEDmatch Eurogenes HGvF calculator, you will conclude that the "FTDNA MyAncientEuropeanOrigins" values presented to "Metal Age Invader" are inflated by the values of "Anatolian Farmer", and the "FTDNA MyAncientEuropeanOrigins" values presented to "Farmer" are inflated by the values of the "Middle Eastern Herder". Check it. :good_job:
Hugs.Duarte, that seems an old calculator, and I'm not sure it helps to explain well what FTDNA is doing after all.
As per the image posted by Stuvanè, FTDNA apparently considers the route started in the Caucasus. What a mess! :) Again, what are they using as reference? Neo/Chalco Iran + CHG (including the CHG part of the Yamnaya and/or Corded Ware ancestry)? Pure CHG wouldn't explain that high amount of Metal Age Invaders in some Afghan and North Indian testees, I guess, while only Neo-Chalco Iran wouldn't explain some amounts in Europeans, like mine, as per calculators like GenePlaza K12, for example. (GenePlaza, btw, includes other cultures as Steppe, whereas FTDNA uses as reference just Yamnaya and Corded Ware, apparently.)
But not sure what reference ancient samples exactly FTDNA is using, which would matter.
Well, Maciamo talks on 15% to 25% of CHG in Yamnaya, mentioning Allentoft and Haak. The number must be higher though. Lazaridis would have talked on ~40% of Chalco Iran in Yamnaya (?), but it turned out it's not in fact a likely source. Anyway, Corded Ware would be something abt. 70% Yamnaya(-like), while modern North Europeans would have between 38 and 50%.

So, they're possibly considering Neo-Chalco Iran + CHG as the main reference for Proto-IEs? If so, firstly, they should decide between the two components, I guess. And if they think, say, Chalco Iran is the main component of proto-IEs, ok, but as I said... It doesn't seem to fit with the route and cultures proposed.

Conclusion: I'm affraid it's not a well done tool, never mind the hypothesis we believe makes more sense.

Duarte
28-06-19, 18:16
Family Tree DNA - My Origins

https://i.imgur.com/IgdYH3a.png
https://i.imgur.com/YtW8XVc.png

italouruguayan
30-06-19, 06:51
My results

11% Metal Age Invader


44% Farmer


24% Hunter-Gatherer


21% non-European

Regio X
10-09-19, 14:55
Jovialis, it must be a coincidence. If my memory serves, FTDNA must consider Metal Age Invaders as West Asians (Iran Neo? CHG?) mainly, which probably help to explain the low % Iberians generally get. Reason why South Italians tend to score higher Metal Age % in this calculator, comparatively to North Italians. For example, I get 16% of Metal invaders, 56% of farmer and 28% Hunter-Gatherer, while Sile got 16, 54 and 30, respectively. My parents haven't tested at FTDNA, but I assume they would get even lower Metal, but higher WHG. Especially my mother, I guess; possibly lower Metal than me and higher WHG than Sile.
It seems there were people in Afghanistan getting 60% of Metal Age Invaders in this calculator, so it must be pretty different from GenePlaza.Maternal uncle's pretty different from mine:

(NE Italian in ancestry)

Metal Age Invader: 10%;
Farmer: 53%;
Hunter-Gatherer: 37%.

torzio
10-09-19, 21:26
Ancient Origins

Stuttgart, Loschbour, La Brana 1, Motala, Ötzi, Linear Pottery Culture, Corded Ware, Yamnaya (Steppe).

https://i.imgur.com/Z74B0Xn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hMNUthK.jpg


we are different , even though we have from the same ydna branch

https://i.postimg.cc/ry3KTRHR/myoriginsftdna.png (https://postimg.cc/NL8g7FBQ)

Salento
10-09-19, 22:57
we are different , even though we have from the same ydna branch

https://i.postimg.cc/ry3KTRHR/myoriginsftdna.png (https://postimg.cc/NL8g7FBQ)

...... ???

I think you’re the different.

I’m a Leccese! (LUPIAE)

https://i.imgur.com/ocJUXJz.jpg


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecce (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecce)

https://i.imgur.com/0rugBiF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gJsiSzI.jpg

Salento
14-09-19, 09:42
we are different , even though we have from the same ydna branch

https://i.postimg.cc/ry3KTRHR/myoriginsftdna.png (https://postimg.cc/NL8g7FBQ)

Maybe it’s just my impression, but some of the remarks you make, show how much you resent the fact that Z19945 it’s not unique to the NW/NE.

imo is bc of the possibility that I shattered the hypothesis of an Alpine Origin of the hg.

I never told you why I tested twice for CTS1848.
I really thought FTDNA made a mistake the first time when it came back negative, so I did it again with YSeq.

You seem very proud of your Ancestry, just remember that you are also part of my Ancestry the next time you make a strange remark.

I'm proud of my Ancestry too.

torzio
14-09-19, 09:58
Maybe it’s just my impression, but some of the remarks you make, show how much you resent the fact that Z19945 it’s not unique to the NW/NE.

imo is bc of the possibility that I shattered the hypothesis of an Alpine Origin of the hg.

I never told you why I tested twice for CTS1848.
I really thought FTDNA made a mistake the first time when it came back negative, so I did it again with YSeq.

You seem very proud of your Ancestry, just remember that you are also part of my Ancestry the next time you make a strange remark.

I'm proud of my Ancestry too.

i am confused by your comment ....................I do not care where my marker comes from, but I believe that before the medieval period, it would be virtually impossible to place any marker with any ethnicity.

italian, alpine, slav, iberian , greek, albanian, british , central asian, whatever .....I care little .............I found that too many people assume too many different places and a very high percentage are wrong ........if you have an idea where you came from, fine, happy, I will not question you

in regards to CTS1848 .............even after doing y700 and it shows , twice I am negative for it, they ( ftdna ) still want me to purchase a test for it ............btw, yfull, also state I am negative

too conclude, for me...I think T began on the east side of the caspian sea

kind regards

Salento
14-09-19, 10:10
I Wasn’t talking about the main T, but thanks for sharing.

... was just an impression.

... regards :)

torzio
14-09-19, 21:31
I Wasn’t talking about the main T, but thanks for sharing.

... was just an impression.

... regards :)

In regards to Z19945

I only state where ftdna say it comes from..............in the past year it has
Jura caves in north switzerland, then

east of modern Bordeaux in france
and now
in savoyard province in france

no date is given ..................only yfull says z19945 began in 1460 BC

Duarte
09-12-19, 21:36
https://i.imgur.com/hMwCI8U.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZmT13HI.png
https://i.imgur.com/C0tLfzc.png
Following the Neolithic Era (New Stone Age), the Bronze Age (3,000–1,000 BCE) is defined by a further iteration in tool making technology. Improving on the stone tools from the Paleolithic and Neolithic Eras, tool makers of the early Bronze Age relied heavily on the use of copper tools, incorporating other metals such as bronze and tin later in the era. The third major wave of migration into the European continent is comprised of peoples from this Bronze Age; specifically, Nomadic herding cultures from the Eurasian steppes found north of the Black Sea. These migrants were closely related to the people of the Black Sea region known as the Yamnaya.
This migration of Bronze Age nomads into the temperate regions further west changed culture and life on the European continent in a multitude of ways. Not only did the people of the Yamnaya culture bring their domesticated horses, wheeled vehicles, and metal tools; they are also credited for delivering changes to the social and genetic makeup of the region. By 2,800 BCE, evidence of new Bronze Age cultures, such as the Bell Beaker and Corded Ware, were emerging throughout much of Western and Central Europe. In the East around the Urals, a group referred to as the Sintashta emerged, expanding east of the Caspian Sea bringing with them chariots and trained horses around 4,000 years ago.
These new cultures formed through admixture between the local European farming cultures and the newly arrived Yamnaya peoples. Research into the influence the Yamnaya culture had on the European continent has also challenged previously held linguistic theories of the origins of Indo-European language. Previous paradigms argued that the Indo-European languages originated from populations from Anatolia; however, present research into the Yamnaya cultures has caused a paradigm shift and linguists now claim the Indo-European languages are rooted with the Yamnaya peoples.
By the Bronze Age, the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b was quickly gaining dominance in Western Europe (as we see today) with high frequencies of individuals belonging to the M269 subclade. Ancient DNA evidence supports the hypothesis that the R1b was introduced into mainland Europe by the Bronze Age invaders coming from the Black Sea region. Further DNA evidence suggests that a lactose tolerance originated from the Yamnaya or another closely tied steppe group. Current day populations in Northern Europe typically show a higher frequency of relatedness to Yamnaya populations, as well as earlier populations of Western European Hunter-Gatherer societies.
https://i.imgur.com/PiE1OEg.png

Roughly 8,000–7,000 years ago, after the last glaciation period (Ice Age), modern human farming populations began migrating into the European continent from the Near East. This migration marked the beginning of the Neolithic Era in Europe. The Neolithic Era, or New Stone Age, is aptly named as it followed the Paleolithic Era, or Old Stone Age. Tool makers during the Neolithic Era had improved on the rudimentary “standard” of tools found during the Paleolithic Era and were now creating specialized stone tools that even show evidence of having been polished and reworked. The Neolithic Era is unique in that it is the first era in which modern humans practiced a more sedentary lifestyle as their subsistence strategies relied more on stationary farming and pastoralism, further allowing for the emergence of artisan practices such as pottery making.
Farming communities are believed to have migrated into the European continent via routes along Anatolia, thereby following the temperate weather patterns of the Mediterranean. These farming groups are known to have populated areas that span from modern day Hungary, Germany, and west into Spain. Remains of the unique pottery styles and burial practices from these farming communities are found within these regions and can be attributed, in part, to artisans from the Funnel Beaker and Linear Pottery cultures. Ötzi (the Tyrolean Iceman), the well-preserved natural mummy that was found in the Alps on the Italian/Austrian border and who lived around 3,300 BCE, is even thought to have belonged to a farming culture similar to these. However, there was not enough evidence found with him to accurately suggest to which culture he may have belonged.
Although farming populations were dispersed across the European continent, they all show clear evidence of close genetic relatedness. Evidence suggests that these farming peoples did not yet carry a tolerance for lactose in high frequencies (as the Yamnaya peoples of the later Bronze Age did); however, they did carry a salivary amylase gene, which may have allowed them to break down starches more efficiently than their hunter-gatherer forebears. Further DNA analysis has found that the Y-chromosome haplogroup G2a and mitochondrial haplogroup N1a were frequently found within the European continent during the early Neolithic Era.
https://i.imgur.com/ubol1Z5.png

The climate during the Pleistocene Epoch (2.6 mill – 11,700 YA) fluctuated between episodes of glaciation (or ice ages) and episodes of warming, during which glaciers would retreat. It is within this epoch that modern humans migrated into the European continent at around 45,000 years ago. These Anatomically Modern Humans (AMH) were organized into bands whose subsistence strategy relied on gathering local resources as well as hunting large herd animals as they travelled along their migration routes. Thus these ancient peoples are referred to as Hunter-Gatherers. The timing of the AMH migration into Europe happens to correspond with a warming trend on the European continent, a time when glaciers retreated and large herd animals expanded into newly available grasslands.
Evidence of hunter-gatherer habitation has been found throughout the European continent from Spain at the La Brana cave to Loschbour, Luxembourg and Motala, Sweden. The individuals found at the Loschbour and Motala sites have mitochondrial U5 or U2 haplogroups, which is typical of Hunter-Gatherers in Europe and Y-chromosome haplogroup I. These findings suggest that these maternally and paternally inherited haplogroups, respectively, were present in the population before farming populations gained dominance in the area.
Based on the DNA evidence gathered from these three sites, scientists are able to identify surviving genetic similarities between current day Northern European populations and the first AMH Hunter-Gatherers in Europe. The signal of genetic sharing between present-day populations and early Hunter-Gatherers, however, begins to become fainter as one moves further south in Europe. The hunter-gatherer subsistence strategy dominated the landscape of the European continent for thousands of years until populations that relied on farming and animal husbandry migrated into the area during the middle to late Neolithic Era around 8,000–7,000 years ago.
https://i.imgur.com/LnRNvG4.png
Most of the world is not of European descent and alternatively, have genetic contributions from influential and significant populations for which we currently do not have enough scientific data. For this reason, those whose ancestral makeup is of non-European descent cannot be grouped into these three particular ancient European categories. As more significant DNA evidence is found in other regions of the world, we will work to continue to connect the ancient with the present in our effort to further our understanding of the interconnectedness between us all. To explore your non-European origins, please see your myOrigins results.