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Dagne
20-06-19, 13:48
I find it really sad is that humanity will have less and less IQ because clever women are less reproductive. It is likely that men can inherit their IQ only from their mothers...

"some studies suggest that intelligence is inherited from the mother. These findings were initially found in studies on mice, but confirmed when extrapolated to human brains. This was carried out by a study conducting a survey on >12,000 people. Paternal genes tend to accumulate in the limbic system, which is concerned with aggression, hunger, e.t.c. basic instincts. No paternal gene is found in the cerebral cortex, which is concerned with advanced functions like learning, reading, e.t.c.
Intelligence genes are carried by the X chromosome, which are 2 with women. Even if it comes from the X chromosome of the father, it gets deactivated. "https://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/228963

"15 IQ points decreases women's odds of parenthood by 21–25%. Because women have a greater impact on the average intelligence of future generations, the dysgenic fertility among women is predicted to lead to a decline in the average intelligence of the population in advanced industrial nations".https://reason.com/2014/07/31/smart-...t-have-babies/ (https://reason.com/2014/07/31/smart-women-dont-have-babies/)

Clever men often do not mind marrying a woman who is pretty though not so intelligent, but it means that his genes for intelligence may be lost if he has only boys as offsprings. Still if woman's IQ is average but her father is of high IQ, she may have deactivated IQ genes for an offspring with high IQ. So men should really scrutinise wife's family for IQ because his IQ genes may be passed only to girls and they will be deactivated until the next generation.
On the other hand, some men may feel somewhat intimidated if their woman is much smarter than himself, so smart women may not be seen as perfect marriage material by average men.

Besides, smart women themselves may tend to skip marriage and children if they cannot find a smart man for herself. I don't think that they always dislike the idea of children and family, only that smart women want a man who is even smarter than herself, someone to look up and to be worth of sacrificing or compromising her professional ambitions or whatever else she wanted to do in her life. Still, family is a structure which supports men's goals in live. A woman may also take some career, but her goals are somewhat secondary. In many cases this is how the woman feels, too, because fighting for contracts or doing big business requires a lot of male aggressiveness not so much IQ and it would not make women happy to adapt to male world too much, where roles in family were reversed with husband staying home to take care of children and her fighting for money/status, etc.


Technically the humanity would be better off under matriarchal system where clever women had many offsprings with whatever - either smart or handsome or men with strong instincts, instead of the opposite where the classical ideal is "clever man + pretty woman" (or man with status has a harem of beauties).

Female genes are more important in carrying intelligence while in case of other features like height - male genes behave more "aggressively" and some of female genes get deactivated (conditioned) so that children will get to inherit more of their father's features, especially girls, apart from IQ, as far as it is understood now.
Pity I don't remember where I read a study about it.

ToBeOrNotToBe
20-06-19, 16:56
Lol, men do not only inherit IQ from their mothers, that's so dumb. The only unique thing you get from your mum is mtDNA - that's precisely the reason it's useful for distinguishing population migrations when the autosomes are all muddled up (and Y DNA is still much more useful than mtDNA)

Dagne
21-06-19, 09:27
I think studies about how much our IQ or other features can be passed by genes and who's genes are very exciting.

To put it very simply, possibly half or even up to 80% of what we call IQ is inherited, and mostly it depends on X chromosome that we get from our mothers in case of men or mother and father in case of women.

Inheritance of IQ is complex, meaning that it depends on many genetic variants (about 500) scattered across genome and how those fragments interact among each other and get influenced by environmental factors.

But what I find fascinating is the so called "conditioned genes" - which is something new - it seem that certain gene variants are shut down depending if they come from mother or from father. So for a woman, it seems, that I technically could not have inherited my fathers phenomenal memory, but I might still have it (or not) among my gene variants but they are conditioned (shut down) in my case. Still, I could pass it to my children if I were lucky. My brother, and his children however, don't have this possibility, as he inherited only my mother's gene variants from her X chromosome in case of intelligence. Earlier, common sense was that we inherit our intelligence from both parents. It is like my cousin who is a very bright mathematician, but his daughters are not interested in maths and find it rather difficult (which is somewhat a bit disappointing for parents). But now, in the light of this study, it is clear that father cannot expects his children to inherit his intellectual capacities, you have to look for that on mother's side (in my case, mother or her family are not into maths, too.) The bright side is that my nieces who are not good at maths may have children who are brilliant (like grandfather...) of course if one is lucky...

On the other hand it seems that we inherit something about our emotions and intuition from fathers, not from mothers.


"A category of genes known as “conditioned genes” are thought to work only if they come from the mother in some cases and the father in other cases. Intelligence is believed to be among the conditioned genes that have to come from the mother.
Laboratory studies using genetically modified mice found that those with an extra dose of maternal genes developed bigger heads and brains, but had little bodies. Those with an extra dose of paternal genes had small brains and larger bodies.
Researchers identified cells that contained only maternal or paternal genes in six different parts of the mouse brains which controlled different cognitive functions, from eating habits to memory.
Cells with paternal genes accumulated in parts of the limbic system, which is involved in functions such as sex, food and aggression. But researchers did not find any paternal cells in the cerebral cortex, which is where the most advanced cognitive functions take place, such as reasoning, thought, language and planning."
https://psychology-spot.com/did-you-know-that-intelligence-is/

https://www.rd.com/advice/parenting/inherit-intelligence-from-mom/

It seems that the best predictor of intelligence is mother's IQ, child's IQ varied only an average of 15 points from that of their mother.

ToBeOrNotToBe
21-06-19, 10:02
True actually, men also get their X chromosome only from their mother (even if it isn't matrilineal), I was too quick there. I still doubt what you're saying is correct though.

Dagne
21-06-19, 12:27
I don't think too that everything about IQ inheritance is clear.
Typically men are better at spacial thinking, besides men's brains are larger, so it may mean that male hormones and, subsequently, Y chromosome has some important enhancement qualities. This is just my own thinking, it is not from studies.

Angela
21-06-19, 17:10
Except that those "on average" slightly better visual/spatial abilities are present before most of the testosterone kicks in.

Something worrisome is going on because they tracked a decline even within families, so no influence from migration or higher IQ women having fewer children etc., although I think those things have an influence. That's the benefit of a longitudinal study.

Perhaps it's something in the environment, or in how children are now being reared. Yes, there's a correlation of upwards of 60% (and probably more) of intelligence with genes, but something environmental, perhaps neo-natal, may also be involved.

Or, the parents to be were exposed to something which caused mutations in the genes governing intelligence, or "switched" them off.

I've always had a hunch that all the drugs ingested by some people when they were teen-agers, and immoderate use of alcohol as well, has had an effect on the number of children born with developmental delay, learning problems, autism, etc.

We'd better find out what it is. If the latter turns out to be the cause, the science deniers will be out in full force. They wouldn't want to admit they were wrong in saying it was all harmless.

While we're at it we'd better find out why sperm counts are dropping.

Dagne
21-06-19, 23:22
Angela, do you have link to a study which refers to IQ decline in families?

I was reading a critical review about some Norwegian study which concluded that IQ within Norwegian families were declining. The criticism was because it was assumed that genetic differences between siblings are the same now as in the past, without taking into consideration that within a number of different Norwegian population registries biological siblings or half-siblings are not distinguished by law which should lead to distorted results.

Angela
21-06-19, 23:54
I think studies about how much our IQ or other features can be passed by genes and who's genes are very exciting.

To put it very simply, possibly half or even up to 80% of what we call IQ is inherited, and mostly it depends on X chromosome that we get from our mothers in case of men or mother and father in case of women.

Inheritance of IQ is complex, meaning that it depends on many genetic variants (about 500) scattered across genome and how those fragments interact among each other and get influenced by environmental factors.

But what I find fascinating is the so called "conditioned genes" - which is something new - it seem that certain gene variants are shut down depending if they come from mother or from father. So for a woman, it seems, that I technically could not have inherited my fathers phenomenal memory, but I might still have it (or not) among my gene variants but they are conditioned (shut down) in my case. Still, I could pass it to my children if I were lucky. My brother, and his children however, don't have this possibility, as he inherited only my mother's gene variants from her X chromosome in case of intelligence. Earlier, common sense was that we inherit our intelligence from both parents. It is like my cousin who is a very bright mathematician, but his daughters are not interested in maths and find it rather difficult (which is somewhat a bit disappointing for parents). But now, in the light of this study, it is clear that father cannot expects his children to inherit his intellectual capacities, you have to look for that on mother's side (in my case, mother or her family are not into maths, too.) The bright side is that my nieces who are not good at maths may have children who are brilliant (like grandfather...) of course if one is lucky...

On the other hand it seems that we inherit something about our emotions and intuition from fathers, not from mothers.


"A category of genes known as “conditioned genes” are thought to work only if they come from the mother in some cases and the father in other cases. Intelligence is believed to be among the conditioned genes that have to come from the mother.
Laboratory studies using genetically modified mice found that those with an extra dose of maternal genes developed bigger heads and brains, but had little bodies. Those with an extra dose of paternal genes had small brains and larger bodies.
Researchers identified cells that contained only maternal or paternal genes in six different parts of the mouse brains which controlled different cognitive functions, from eating habits to memory.
Cells with paternal genes accumulated in parts of the limbic system, which is involved in functions such as sex, food and aggression. But researchers did not find any paternal cells in the cerebral cortex, which is where the most advanced cognitive functions take place, such as reasoning, thought, language and planning."
https://psychology-spot.com/did-you-know-that-intelligence-is/

https://www.rd.com/advice/parenting/inherit-intelligence-from-mom/

It seems that the best predictor of intelligence is mother's IQ, child's IQ varied only an average of 15 points from that of their mother.

Well, not to be cruel, but I have noticed that some of the very intelligent men I've known who have married women based solely on looks are sometimes disappointed their children don't have intellects matching their own. You'd think doctors, in particular, might have figured out that genetics has something to do with IQ.

Btw, it was indeed the Swedish study to which I was referring, which stated there was a drop even within families over time. I certainly hope there was some statistical error. That would be very worrying.

bigsnake49
22-06-19, 00:09
Well, not to be cruel, but I have noticed that some of the very intelligent men I've known who have married women based solely on looks are sometimes disappointed their children don't have intellects matching their own. You'd think doctors, in particular, might have figured out that genetics has something to do with IQ.

Btw, it was indeed the Swedish study to which I was referring, which stated there was a drop even within families over time. I certainly hope there was some statistical error. That would be very worrying.
Ah, have they figured out that the good looking trophy wives did not marry the doctors for their good looks? They might or might not get better looking kids but they certainly won't get smarter kids.

Angela
22-06-19, 02:19
Ah, have they figured out that the good looking trophy wives did not marry the doctors for their good looks? They might or might not get better looking kids but they certainly won't get smarter kids.

Most of us are prone to seeing what we want to see, don't you think? :) You have to actively work against it. Some men are quite clearheaded about it, though, in my experience: it's why they chose a profession where they could make a lot of money. I just don't think some of them thought ahead to their future children. I know of one case of a doctor, as a matter of fact, who left his wife (from a family of doctors), for his office receptionist and had a second set of children. The second wife made her life, her husband's life, and the life of her daughters a misery trying to ensure that they would succeed the way his first set of children had, to absolutely no avail. They weren't Harvard material, they weren't going to play first violin in an almost professional orchestra, and that was that.

My dearest friend and I, now passed, who tended to look at the world and other people the same way, used to chat, after a club dance, or some big event, and play the "now why did she marry him, or vice versa", or sometimes, "how could such a nice person marry such a complete ____". I'm sure you know what I mean.

Human beings are infinitely fascinating to observe.

bigsnake49
22-06-19, 03:37
Most of us are prone to seeing what we want to see, don't you think? :) You have to actively work against it. Some men are quite clearheaded about it, though, in my experience: it's why they chose a profession where they could make a lot of money. I just don't think some of them thought ahead to their future children. I know of one case of a doctor, as a matter of fact, who left his wife (from a family of doctors), for his office receptionist and had a second set of children. The second wife made her life, her husband's life, and the life of her daughters a misery trying to ensure that they would succeed the way his first set of children had, to absolutely no avail. They weren't Harvard material, they weren't going to play first violin in an almost professional orchestra, and that was that.

My dearest friend and I, now passed, who tended to look at the world and other people the same way, used to chat, after a club dance, or some big event, and play the "now why did she marry him, or vice versa", or sometimes, "how could such a nice person marry such a complete ____". I'm sure you know what I mean.

Human beings are infinitely fascinating to observe.

Well, it was not better couple of generations ago in Greece in the era of arranged marriages.The criteria was rather severe. They looked at when your grandmother and grandfather died, what did they die off? Any mental illness in the family? Were they lazy or hard workers. Good with their hands? Did they lose their hair early? Did the female members of the family have problems with their pregnancies, etc. etc. There was a lot of selection going on. :) The matchmaker was a valued member of the community.

Dagne
22-06-19, 10:48
Btw, it was indeed the Swedish study to which I was referring, which stated there was a drop even within families over time. I certainly hope there was some statistical error. That would be very worrying.

Well, I would be interested to see the methodology of such studies, just in case.
Another problem with such long term studies might be that the easiest to use data from Scandinavian registries (which are really popular among geneticists)
IQ data are taken from the records on conscripts. Each conscript is doing an IQ test and this information is included in the registry. The registry is public, available for scientific purposes. So the researches can find information on the IQ of several generation of men.
The conclusion on decreasing IQ within families could be derived only by comparing differences between men from different generations (brothers, father, uncles, etc.) where the link might be the weakest.

Mothers / daughters/ granddaughters should be included as test subjects, too, but the freely available data on them do not exist.

Besides, if we want to take into consideration "conditioned IQ genes" of fathers, then we should be comparing intelligence of every second generation (children and their maternal grandparents).

If we had these type of studies, that would be really interesting.

Dagne
22-06-19, 14:21
Perhaps it's something in the environment, or in how children are now being reared. Yes, there's a correlation of upwards of 60% (and probably more) of intelligence with genes, but something environmental, perhaps neo-natal, may also be involved.



The simple answer is that IQ like height depends on nutrition. But I suppose it is OK now. Though the pollution (air pollution especially) might be a big factor.
Another factor - "secure emotional bond between mother and child" - poor women, again it all depends on them :)

"Mothers have also been found to play an extremely significant role in this non-genetic part of intelligence, with some studies suggesting a secure bond between mother and child is intimately tied to intelligence.

Researchers at the University of Washington found that a secure emotional bond between a mother and child is crucial for the growth of some parts of the brain. After analysing the way a group of mothers related to their children for seven years, the researchers found children who were supported emotionally and had their intellectual needs fulfilled had a 10 per cent larger hippocampus at 13 on average than children whose mothers were emotionally distant. The hippocampus is an area of the brain associated with memory, learning and stress response".
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/children-intelligence-iq-mother-inherit-inheritance-genetics-genes-a7345596.html

Dagne
22-06-19, 14:24
Well, it was not better couple of generations ago in Greece in the era of arranged marriages.The criteria was rather severe. They looked at when your grandmother and grandfather died, what did they die off? Any mental illness in the family? Were they lazy or hard workers. Good with their hands? Did they lose their hair early? Did the female members of the family have problems with their pregnancies, etc. etc. There was a lot of selection going on. :) The matchmaker was a valued member of the community.

That's how it was in Lithuania, too, one would want to marry someone form "a good family" only...

Dagne
22-06-19, 15:17
Air pollution is a factor, too:


"The paper shows that air pollution, like inadequate nutrition and stimulation, and exposure to violence during the critical first 1,000 days of life, can impact children’s early childhood development by affecting their growing brains:

Ultrafine pollution particles are so small that they can enter the blood stream, travel to the brain, and damage the blood-brain barrier, which can cause neuro-inflammation.

Some pollution particles, such as ultrafine magnetite, can enter the body through the olfactory nerve and the gut, and, due to their magnetic charge, create oxidative stress – which is known to cause neurodegenerative diseases.

Other types of pollution particles, such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, can damage areas in the brain that are critical in helping neurons communicate, the foundation for children’s learning and development.

A young child’s brain is especially vulnerable because it can be damaged by a smaller dosage of toxic chemicals, compared to an adult’s brain. Children are also highly vulnerable to air pollution because they breathe more rapidly and also because their physical defences and immunities are not fully developed."
https://reliefweb.int/report/world/danger-air-how-air-pollution-can-affect-brain-development-young-children
The paper quoted is a Unicef paper attached to the article.

Besides, air pollution, especial such as diesel traffic residues, affect brains of the adult people, too, "on more polluted days Chinese students do on average worse in their exams"

Air pollution is really a bad factor for many issues, especially ultra small particles.

Angela
22-06-19, 16:53
The simple answer is that IQ like height depends on nutrition. But I suppose it is OK now. Though the pollution (air pollution especially) might be a big factor.
Another factor - "secure emotional bond between mother and child" - poor women, again it all depends on them :)

"Mothers have also been found to play an extremely significant role in this non-genetic part of intelligence, with some studies suggesting a secure bond between mother and child is intimately tied to intelligence.

Researchers at the University of Washington found that a secure emotional bond between a mother and child is crucial for the growth of some parts of the brain. After analysing the way a group of mothers related to their children for seven years, the researchers found children who were supported emotionally and had their intellectual needs fulfilled had a 10 per cent larger hippocampus at 13 on average than children whose mothers were emotionally distant. The hippocampus is an area of the brain associated with memory, learning and stress response".
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/children-intelligence-iq-mother-inherit-inheritance-genetics-genes-a7345596.html

Except that the lungs of ancient samples don't look so great from inhaling all that smoke from open fires in windowless huts, so I don't know.

Again, my hunch is that it is what is happening to men, not women. It's male sperm counts that are down, not eggs. A woman is born with all her eggs, but sperm is constantly being produced, and so is prone to damage from pollutants of all kinds, including the ingestion of drugs and alcohol.

It's like all the studies which showed it was older men, not women, producing less fit offspring, although a lot of men here were vociferous in their denial. Over time, mutations accumulate.

Of course, what happens during the time the child is in utero is also extremely important. One reason the U.S. lags in terms of child mortality is not because of worse health care; it's because of the high numbers of women from the "underclass" who continue to use drugs and consume high quantities of alcohol during pregnancy. We also have Amerindian populations who seem to have tremendous difficulties with alcohol processing who give birth to children with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, which is an absolutely horrible thing.

As for that longitudinal study, wouldn't grandfathers and grandsons show up, the "skipping a generation" part which would even things out?

As for that "skipping a generation" thing on the male line, I think it might apply to things besides intelligence, and I've seen it in my own family .My paternal grandfather was not terribly stable mentally in mid life. Not one of his eleven children showed any sign of it: all stable and healthy mentally and physically. Yet, among the over thirty grandchildren, two have had problems.

On the maternal family side of the equation, I met a family here where the mother developed a mental illness after the birth of her children. Two of her four children have done the same. The husband/father is an absolute saint, trying to care for all of them, keep their lives solvent and together.

Angela
22-06-19, 17:20
Well, it was not better couple of generations ago in Greece in the era of arranged marriages.The criteria was rather severe. They looked at when your grandmother and grandfather died, what did they die off? Any mental illness in the family? Were they lazy or hard workers. Good with their hands? Did they lose their hair early? Did the female members of the family have problems with their pregnancies, etc. etc. There was a lot of selection going on. :) The matchmaker was a valued member of the community.

It was just the same with us.

I sometimes wonder if it was a "bad" or a "good" system. Perhaps good for the village or community, not so good in a lot of cases for the individuals. Those old women were responsible for a lot of broken hearts. Yet...seventeen year old hearts can mend, and perhaps some of those girls, for example, were glad in the end that they didn't saddle themselves with a man who worked too little and drank too much, and gave them too many children to feed, or the man who married the prettiest girl in the village against the counsel of his elders grew unhappy with the slovenly house, the bad food, and the poorly cared for children.

I drank up all those stories as a child, because I was the kind who followed the grandparents and great aunts and uncles and great-grandparents around and begged for stories as they worked. I'm pretty sure they sunk in, and that's why I was prone to believe in the effect of family "blood" lines long before all these papers on genetics, as unpopular as the ideas were.

No matter how infatuated I was with my husband to be, no matter how much I suffered from that "colpo di fulmine", I really doubt I would have eventually married him had I not instantly liked his family, seen how hard working and ambitious they were, how stable, and most importantly, how kind and loving and respectful they were to one another, and how important family life was to them. Had I seen alcoholism, or abuse, or even just disorder and lack of stability, I think I would have run for my life. My nonna always said I was born old. Perhaps I was. :)

davef
22-06-19, 17:22
Stress might play a role, though I'm not sure if it's any worse for kids these days. I think I read that kids in the US are constantly being bombed with tests as part of this common core thing and it's messing with their mental health but I'm not sure if it's any worse than what students went through prior to this shift (I mean, you can't have school without tests-I'm no teacher but how else can you measure how much a student learned?).

Dagne
22-06-19, 18:09
As for that longitudinal study, wouldn't grandfathers and grandsons show up, the "skipping a generation" part which would even things out?


I agree that skipping generation is somehow important for inheritance. But in case of IQ, if we presume that boys inherit their IQ from mother's side, then comparing men from families with the same surname (grandfather - father - son) would not be meaningful. But that is the easiest way to identify family members from public registry, isn't it?

Dagne
22-06-19, 18:29
https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/so-emissions-by-world-region-in-million-tonnes-2.png

Small particle air pollution (which gets into blood) affects IQ. So it must be that world's mean IQ reduced due to pollution, too.

Also I watched really fascinating 2min bbc animated reel (link in the article below), where they say that there is evidence (not just correlation) that more polluted air means more violent crimes. Totally insane, but it is true.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190415-how-air-pollution-is-doing-more-than-killing-us

davef
23-06-19, 08:15
Health issues might play a role...this is personal experience but I've seen some kids who are way more obese than they should be and they probably sit around at the PlayStation or pc while munching on processed snacky cakes and crunchy doodles. Just today I walked by a few kids who probably weigh almost as much as I do (and they weren't muscular). It's parents allowing them to eat like crap that contributes to this (besides other potential things mentioned in the thread).

Angela
24-06-19, 17:22
It seems that prolonged cannabis use in adolescence may have an impact on IQ.

I caution that it's only 38 people, and they would really need to test lots of people in a longitudinal study, i.e. IQ pre cannabis use and post cannabis use.

See:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbradberry/2015/02/10/new-study-shows-smoking-pot-permanently-lowers-iq/#6cff5ea22f5b

4mypeople
24-06-19, 18:02
I would suspect it is due to the decline of Neanderthal genes in the General population and increase in smaller brained Non-Neanderthal genes becoming more prevalent 45 IQ 147

Angela
24-06-19, 18:22
There's absolutely no evidence Neanderthal were more intelligent. For crying out loud, recent papers show their dna is connected to problems with cognition and verbal processing. One paper I just posted says our cranium allows for more connections in certain areas. There's even increasing doubt they could speak.

Please don't start bringing these urban myths here. We go by papers.

4mypeople
24-06-19, 18:42
Ya so do I, I have a whole YouTube Channel Debunking most of the mainstream Science by liberal Marxist university professors etc, There was a recent article stating that the shape of modern peoples skulls when Dolichocephallic is directly connected to Neanderthal genes, also No genetic proof Neanderthals genes were tied to Autism or Schizophrenia but a definite correlation to Modern humans having the genes for both Schizophrenia and Autism (Copy number Variants) lol they couldn't speak, we inherited the FOX p2 gene from them so they were speaking hundreds of thousands of Years before Modern humans

Angela
24-06-19, 19:37
Guys, this is another one for ignore.

Poor newbies happily searching away on youtube and other internet sites. :(

LecrameMark
25-06-19, 08:50
There is a point in what are you saying but people aren't losing their IQ because of their mother only, there are a lot of more reasons as they are lazy, and staying on their phones al the day long.

Dagne
25-06-19, 11:02
IQ is something that one is born with; we use our intelligence to learn things. A real IQ test is not about how much we learned, so maths tests cannot be used to test IQ because it is a matter of learning, too.
Environmental factors can impede how our brain works (shorter or longer term) or prevent the brain being developed in physical terms, which is rather sad for the individual concerned, but in global terms, it may still be OK, if children of such impeded individuals can have their chance to develop properly. So far we don't have evidence that these environmental factors were changing our genetic make-up for good. Which is a good news, I think.


After scanning through research on IQ and environment, I think it is rather well known what kind of environmental factors prevent brain being developed in young babies (permanent reduction of IQ for an individual but not in terms of his/her genetic IQ):

- air pollution
- inadequate nutrition
- inadequate stimulation
- exposure to violence

Then later there could be also other factors as you mentioned related to use of smart digital devices:

"Recent research suggests that smartphone usage does indeed have an effect on the brain, although the long-term effects remain to be seen. In one study (https://press.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_target.cfm?ID=1989) presented to the Radiological Society of North America, researchers found that young people with a so-called internet and smartphone addition actually demonstrated imbalances in brain chemistry compared to a control group. Another studying appearing in the Journal of the Association for Consumer Research found that cognitive capacity was significantly reduced (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/691462) whenever a smartphone is within reach, even when the phone is off."

"Researcher Michael Shayer, who co-authored the report, told Euronews that since 1995 a “large social force has been interfering with children’s development of thinking, getting larger each year.” This “social force” includes the development of technology, such as game consoles and smartphones, which have altered the way that children communicate with each other, he explained. Take 14-year-olds in Britain. What 25% could do back in 1994, now only 5% can do, he added, citing maths and science tests".https://www.euronews.com/2017/12/29/the-iq-of-europeans-is-dropping-due-to-technology-say-researchers

This is again not an IQ decrease in terms of genetic make-up, but due to environmental conditions and it may be only temporary, so it is not that bad compared to when babies born for instance in London or Bombay cannot develop their brains due to exposure to air pollution and it is permanent. But again, if things get reversed during one's lifetime or lives of one's children it is not that bad.

Whereas when clever women get de-selected for offsprings it is a permanent loss of IQ.

There are many ethical things against having a precise genetic IQ test, but I suppose it would be very interesting to really see if humanity is permanently loosing its IQ or it is just temporary, due to air pollution or smart devices and whatever other factors.

arvistro
15-07-19, 12:23
Well..
Me and my sister from same father (math guy) have top high IQ. My brother from different father (not math guy) has somewhat lower IQ. Still pretty smart.

My wife struggled with math at school, but my son is best in his class and attends math competitions.

So, no, father is a factor at least for transferring mathematical skills to his offspring.

Dagne
18-07-19, 13:17
Well, I am really sorry about men, and your father in particular. According to this theory they do not matter much in terms of passing intelligence to their sons. It must sound like a blow to common sense.

So you think your intelligence could not have been inherited from your mother's side?

The thing is that you should look at the skills and talents of your mother, and even more importantly, at your mother's parents, grandparents, grate grandparents and so on. According to this theory a girl has gene variants of her father and mother, but father's are "conditioned" which means that they are not working in her cases, but might be activated within her children. So your mother may not be good at maths but her children may. For boys, his mother's side with regard to IQ is even more important as he (and his offsprings) will inherit that only from his mother's side (mother's parents, grandparents, grate grandparents) it is only combination of these gene variants that influence his IQ.

Besides, as many of Latvians or Lithuanians three/four generations ago were peasants, one may not know if they could have had talents in sciences, because circumstances were such that people could just work on land.

What do you know about you mother's family?

And finally, yes, the genetic architecture for IQ is complex and not very clear; scientists only start IQ gene-hunting expeditions :)
So they say now that IQ is heritable up to 80%, maths ability is again something more narrow to measure IQ.

Besides, another fun statistics is that
"Assortative mating is greater for intelligence (spouse correlations ~0.40) than for other behavioural traits such as personality and psychopathology (~0.10) or physical traits such as height and weight (~0.20)", https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/


to put in simple words, usually one's parents are quite well-matched in terms of their intelligence.
Especially in case of the first marriage, I suppose, when status does not matter so much.

Regio X
18-07-19, 15:57
@Dagne
Afaik this story of intelligence being inherited greatly from the X and mom is a bit outdated. It must be even more complex than that.

The article below provide some clues regarding the subject.


Interesting article about it:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610339/dna-tests-for-iq-are-coming-but-it-might-not-be-smart-to-take-one/

Dagne
19-07-19, 07:54
What the article says is that we know that IQ is highly heritable, but we don't know how. But it does not question the fact that "IQ genes" are on X chromosome. (which is indeed not anything new, as the research confirmed it in 1991 if I am not mistaken).

The reason it is in the news now it is because technically it became feasible for scientists to go into proper human genome research only very recently and among other things scientists are trying to understand inheritance through polygenic scoring, which is indeed complex. (The article also points out that currently the genetic tests for IQ are not very reliable, and that there are ethical problems in branding people at a young age or moreover using genetic IQ testing for selecting embryos)

Regarding Y chromosome influencing IQ, the only reference that I found (also not new) is that it may have a factor of enhancement. But if you find something else - that gene variants on Y chromosome influence IQ - please do share - it is very interesting.


"Finding the genes

To psychologists, IQ tests measure something called “g”—the general factor of intelligence. People who are better at math, spatial reasoning, verbal ability, and other skills that tests can measure have higher g.
And that’s not all. The g factor is strongly correlated with income, happiness, health, and life span. More g seems to be a good thing all around. To Plomin it’s the “omnipotent variable” in life.
It’s also highly heritable. Comparisons of twins, both identical and fraternal, separated at birth or raised together, had shown that genetics must account for more than half of intelligence—a huge effect for genes. The rest is due to your schools, your diet, and other environmental factors."

But which specific genes are responsible? The search did not go well at first. Plomin failed to discover any links when he looked at the genomes of 7,900 children in 2010. He later became involved in a misadventure involving a Chinese sequencing company, BGI, to which he supplied the DNA of more than a thousand American geniuses. The project got derailed (https://www.nature.com/news/chinese-project-probes-the-genetics-of-genius-1.12985) after news reports accused the Chinese of hatching a plot to breed “genius babies (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gw8vn/chinas-taking-over-the-world-with-a-massive-genetic-engineering-program).”
The gene hunt finally paid off in May 2017. A Dutch-led study of the genetic makeup of 78,308 people who’d taken tests (including 2,825 of Plomin’s twins) zeroed in on variations in 22 genes linked to IQ scores. By this March, the tally had rapidly risen to 199,000 people and 500 genes. Plomin says a forthcoming report will establish links to 1,000 genes.
Each genetic variable found so far has only a tiny effect, either weakly increasing IQ on average or weakly decreasing it. The trick to turning the discoveries into a personal DNA IQ test? Simply add up all the pluses and minuses you find in a specific person’s genome.
These types of assessments are called “polygenic scores (https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610251/forecasts-of-genetic-fate-just-got-a-lot-more-accurate/).” And they’re quickly becoming a very big deal (see “10 breakthrough technologies 2018: Genetic fortune telling (https://www.technologyreview.com/lists/technologies/2018/)”). That’s because they work for any trait, including heart disease, diabetes, and schizophrenia—in all, more than 2,000 (http://www.nealelab.is/blog/2017/9/15/heritability-of-2000-traits-and-disorders-in-the-uk-biobank) traits so far. "

arvistro
19-07-19, 21:02
“So you think your intelligence could not have been inherited from your mother's side?”
Could, but why would me and my sister (same father mathematician) be more gifted than my brother (different father, not mathematician)?
Truth be told we (me and my sister) are also more gifted (in math) than other kids of our father, since our mother was great in math too but theirs was not :)

And now next generation - my wife (her mom, and dad, etc, etc) had struggled with math in school, but my son regularly attends math olympics. So, from where would that come from if not from me? :)

I think anecdotal evidence from my family is enough for me to at least put a little doubt in one parent being responsible for IQ. Seems more like 50/50-ish.
_____
X and Y are 1 of 23 chromosomes.
“Every healthy individual has a set of 23 chromosomes: 1 is a sex chromosome—or allosome—and 22 are non-sex chromosomes. The non-sex chromosomes are also referred to as autosomes.”
If Y lacks genes impacting cognitive abilities, there are still other 22 chances for father to pass some IQ related stuff to kid.

——-
But having read more, it makes sense X has some special genes for IQ, since men IQ is more variable than women (more failures/ more geniuses), it may mean recessive traits (otherwise suppressed by average dominants) for both top end and bottom end intellect have higher chance getting through.

arvistro
19-07-19, 22:39
To sum up.
I believe level of IQ is determined by “team” of genes with most important “player” coming from X chromosome. Like goalkeeper in football (the real football, Euro one).
If goal keeper is brilliant average team becomes great. If he is nightmare, whole team struggles. Great and poor keepers seem recessive, women mostly choose the average (most common) version of her two XX (not the genius X or dum X) whilst men got to live with whatever X they had.

On other hand, if team is great, it should do alright also with average keeper.

Dreptul Valah
19-07-19, 23:00
The football keeper becomes important if the team plays defensive,like ,for example ,the Italian captain Buffon(even in this stance,the player is already the most incisive in the whole team,although in more or less,latent phase),but what about handball, where not even the Y matters?

When the handballer comes 2-3 meters close to the goal line,what can you do?

Acting like Sterbik and Omeyer,by moving very well both the hands and feet, can be a good option, until a certain point...

Regio X
19-07-19, 23:33
@Dagne
Thanks for your comment. In fact I didn't read that much about the subject, I must confess,but I found an article I read time ago (see below) that also led me to my comment above. Of course, among others, in the only opportunity I researched it (I remember to have seen articles - but generally just the titles, lol - mentioning different chromosomes as the main vectors of IQ, including X, but not only.

Here it is:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2016/09/16/no-research-has-not-established-that-you-inherited-your-intelligence-from-your-mother/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2016/09/16/no-research-has-not-established-that-you-inherited-your-intelligence-from-your-mother/#23dae52b6502)

It mentions this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/

Hope I find some time to read it all, btw.

Cheers

Dreptul Valah
20-07-19, 13:05
EDIT


the answer


Since we're not Germans,Russians,Americans, Jews ,or Turks,we'll skip the technical approach this time,after all ,the player is in your semicircle, you can do anything to him.



Gaining your rights to control the player leads you to a variety of methods,like ,for example, (a more aggressive form of) hypnosis,after a few misses from very sure positions, he'll either lose confidence or become precipitated.

EDIT2

Still, this is a real thing in sports, the use of intelligent skills/intelligence, with the above example, called "anticipation".

Dagne
20-07-19, 15:25
@Dagne
Thanks for your comment. In fact I didn't read that much about the subject, I must confess,but I found an article I read time ago (see below) that also led me to my comment above. Of course, among others, in the only opportunity I researched it (I remember to have seen articles - but generally just the titles, lol - mentioning different chromosomes as the main vectors of IQ, including X, but not only.

Here it is:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2016/09/16/no-research-has-not-established-that-you-inherited-your-intelligence-from-your-mother/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2016/09/16/no-research-has-not-established-that-you-inherited-your-intelligence-from-your-mother/#23dae52b6502)

It mentions this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/

Hope I find some time to read it all, btw.

Cheers

@RegioX
In the articles that you refer, especially with the heading which say "no research established that you inherit your intelligence from your mother" -
there is nothing that would refer that sons inherit their IQ from fathers, too. So, I am afraid, the heading of the article is a bit misleading.

The author just wants to point out basic things that environmental factors play a part in terms of healthy development of one's potential, also in terms of IQ, and that scientists so far cannot fully explain the overall architecture of IQ inheritance while many flashy articles present the ideas in simplified terms. We all must agree with that, no question.

But the essence remains as I say - though it goes against common sense, mother's (and her family's) genes are more important than father's when determining child's IQ, which is especially true of boys, who, as it seems, do not have a chance inheriting IQ from their father's side. On the other hand, a part of mother's genes that she inherited from her father are "sleeping" (conditioned). So to say, if you have an average IQ mother, but her father is of very high IQ, grandchildren may be very smart, too. And vice versa, a less intelligent grandfather may bring down grandchildrens' IQ.

In any case, one can never inherit a polygenetic trait by 100% so it still a matter of chance and, of course, environmental factors play a role, too, no one denies that.

Anyway, I am sure research on IQ heritability goes on and we may find out more about it in a while.

arvistro
20-07-19, 23:04
@Dagne,
I think you are still missing the point :)

Humans have not just 1 chromosome (the XX or XY one) but 23 of them - one sex based (XX, XY) and 22 autosomal. And genes responsible for IQ are not exclusively located in sex based allosome, but also are present in some or all of 22 others. The ones from X are indeed not passed from father to son, but all the other 22 are a combination from both parents.

Apparently Y chromosome does not pass IQ related traits or it is not found out yet.

Farstar
21-07-19, 13:16
I guess the answer to the question "is intelligence inherited through the mother?" is not only a yes/no one, but also by "how much?".

Very often, scientific research results are presented as yes/no ones, but in fact, the interesting part is in the metric.

For example, it could be true that moms are "more important" for the intelligence of their children, but marginally so. This is more or less similar to the idea that "old women" have "worse" children: maybe the probability of having children with problems increases with the mom's age, but it continues remaining true that the most likely scenario is that the child of an old mom will be perfectly healthy. But instead, moms are terrified by that, and they take radical decisions based on that information, because they *believe* that the most likely scenario is the child will be "defective".

For example, an old result quotes the intelligence correlation between mom and child is 0.55 and between dad and child is 0.51.

http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/intelligence.html

So, according to this result, it is true that mom is more important than dad, for the child intelligence.

But:

1. A correlation of 0.55 is low. If one scatters-plot two variables correlated with a correlation coefficient of 0.55, the signal is almost imperceptible, and what dominates is noise
2. The difference between 0.55 and 0.51 may be measurable over a big sample, but on a single case, the measure is irrelevant

I am assuming these correlations were measured using IQ test results, and no genetic analysis was performed.

So, the answer to the question may be technically yes, but in practice for a couple, the result is irrelevant. Love your child, educate him/her, and not be worried about all this research (or supposed research).

Dagne
21-07-19, 22:11
@Dagne,
I think you are still missing the point :)

Humans have not just 1 chromosome (the XX or XY one) but 23 of them - one sex based (XX, XY) and 22 autosomal. And genes responsible for IQ are not exclusively located in sex based allosome, but also are present in some or all of 22 others. The ones from X are indeed not passed from father to son, but all the other 22 are a combination from both parents.

Apparently Y chromosome does not pass IQ related traits or it is not found out yet.

But you see, the point is that IQ gene variants that are received from father are conditioned
"scientists now believe genes for advanced cognitive functions which are inherited from the father may be automatically deactivated"

this is a new finding that we are talking about.

Regio X
22-07-19, 02:30
some studies suggest that intelligence is inherited from the mother. These findings were initially found in studies on mice, but confirmed when extrapolated to human brains. This was carried out by a study conducting a survey on >12,000 people. Paternal genes tend to accumulate in the limbic system, which is concerned with aggression, hunger, e.t.c. basic instincts. No paternal gene is found in the cerebral cortex, which is concerned with advanced functions like learning, reading, e.t.c. Intelligence genes are carried by the X chromosome, which are 2 with women. Even if it comes from the X chromosome of the father, it gets deactivated."
https://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/228963Sorry, Dagne, but it doesn't seem new. That must be 1996. The article I posted from Forbes explained it (it's not about environment only, and the first I posted not even mention X chromosome).

"What they’re really describing (I think) is the results of a 1996 paper that reports using mouse embryos that were a mix of cells, some carrying double paternal genomes and some carrying double maternal genomes. Some parts of the mouse brain that developed carried far more of one than the other whereas other parts of the brain showed a reverse pattern. The senior author on that paper, Cambridge University neuroscientist Barry E. Keverne, himself wrote in 2013 that some of the findings may have been the result of a 'failure of these (double paternal) cells to thrive and survive when they reach the developing cortex.'"

And the article continues... I won't quote it all here, but anyone interested on the matter should read it all.

Point is, in short, that intelligence is a very complex phenotype, and saying "intelligence comes from mother" (or X), this way, seems an exaggeration, apparently not really supported by science so far.

@Farstar
Interesting point.

Messier 67
22-07-19, 06:10
I find it really sad is that humanity will have less and less IQ because clever women are less reproductive. It is likely that men can inherit their IQ only from their mothers...





Reminds me of the intro of the film, idiocracy. Where the intelligent refuse to have kids until they are more financially secure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

arvistro
23-07-19, 11:31
But you see, the point is that IQ gene variants that are received from father are conditioned
"scientists now believe genes for advanced cognitive functions which are inherited from the father may be automatically deactivated"

this is a new finding that we are talking about.
Full quote I guess is this:
“Even if it comes from the X chromosome of the father, it gets deactivated."
From X chromosome..

What I am saying is - cognitive functions do not come exclusively from sex based chromosome which is just 1 of 23 chromosomes..

Do you think autosomes do not contain genes enhancing/impacting cognitive functions?

Tamakore
30-07-19, 03:48
George Bernard Shaw may have anticipated this debate. A beautiful young society woman approached him at a party and said "George, with your intelligence and my looks, imagine the wonderful children we could have together." He replied "But, my dear, what if they have my looks and your intelligence?"

Tomenable
24-10-19, 15:49
Would be interesting to research if these feminist lesbians and single mothers who go to sperm banks and choose very high IQ genius men as donors, give birth to genius kids. If they don't then probably Dagne is right.

Angela
24-10-19, 17:37
Want to know the possible IQ of a child? Take the father's and mother's, add and divide by 2. :)

There was a Nobel Scientist who started a sperm bank with donors who were also Nobel scientists or otherwise could show they had a high IQ.

To be accepted as a "donee", a woman had to have a certain minimum IQ. If my memory serves, it was pretty high, above 120.

He clearly knew that the mother's IQ matters as well.

Farstar
24-10-19, 17:44
Want to know the possible IQ of a child? Take the father's and mother's, add and divide by 2. :)

There was a Nobel Scientist who started a sperm bank with donors who were also Nobel scientists or otherwise could show they had a high IQ.

To be accepted as a "donee", a woman had to have a certain minimum IQ. If my memory serves, it was pretty high, above 120.

He clearly knew that the mother's IQ matters as well.

Angela, taking the average IQ of the parents is known to be (by research) the best IQ estimate for their children? It seems logical, but I have never been able to find literature stating this fact. Very often, researchers speak about the correlation in IQ (between children and parents), but they do not explain how this correlation is calculated.

Angela
24-10-19, 20:19
Angela, taking the average IQ of the parents is known to be (by research) the best IQ estimate for their children? It seems logical, but I have never been able to find literature stating this fact. Very often, researchers speak about the correlation in IQ (between children and parents), but they do not explain how this correlation is calculated.

It's not quite as simple as that, i.e. a strict average. :) I was being a bit flip. It will, however, be somewhere in that range. It's just so obvious that I can't understand the resistance to the idea that it's heritable and that one has to consider the IQ of both parents, especially in light of all the data that's been generated for decades.

There are many components to an IQ score. When you get recombination in the sex cells, there isn't a strict division.

I'm sure people are sick about hearing about my brother and me, but we're really a very good illustration of this. We're sort of mirror opposites of each other. On the SAT scores I got an 800 on the verbal and 720 on the math. He got 800 on the math and 720 on the verbal. Total IQ scores are in the same ballpark, but not exactly the same. He got more of certain skills and I got more of others. I think he is better functioning on the visual/spatial side of the equation because he got those alleles both from my mother's side (her father and a cousin were/are both engineers, the latter working on managing the water problem in Venice), and my father, wonderful at math, and very visually oriented (his dream had been to be an architect). I don't think I got those same alleles from my mother as my brother got. I got the verbal aptitude ones from her instead, with a brother and cousin who were writers and journalists, and from my father as well, along with some of his math skills. My brother's IQ is not only slightly higher than mine, but I think it's probably a bit higher than my father's and mother's as well. It's serendipity depending upon which specific alleles are inherited and how they influence one another.

Also, after awhile there's what they call regression toward the mean. For example, the children of two people with a genius level IQ will still have a high IQ, but perhaps not as high as the parents. It applies to things like musical ability too. The Bach family is an example. Generations of talented musicians, before and after him, but only one Johann Sebastian Bach, unfortunately. :)

You can also have rare cases where parents with high average IQ can produce a prodigy. Again, serendipity. Just the right combination of alleles from both lines, plus, perhaps, some de novo mutations.

Those are the subtleties.

The general takeaway is the same, however. The IQ of both parents is important, and the IQ of the child will more than likely be in the same ballpark as the parents sort of averaged. In most cases there isn't a big disparity in the IQ of the father versus the mother anyway, of course, because in this day and age assortative mating is particularly strong in the area of intellectual functioning. That wasn't always the case. Many marriages in the past, as I'm sure you know, were based on land and property, or an older man on his second or third wife just marrying someone on the basis of looks.

Fwiw, I looked up that sperm bank, and the Wiki article says that the media reports about the qualifications of the women "donees" were incorrect.

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repository_for_Germinal_Choice