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View Full Version : Clues to early social structures may be found in ancient extraordinary graves



Krum
05-09-19, 20:11
https://m.phys.org/news/2019-08-clues-early-social-ancient-extraordinary.html?fbclid=IwAR34Yk22CV2ARPrAMqXwpV rVV6LSUMDsxoib_KLtm8J7K9ADeJprpjGZRBIhttps://m.phys.org/news/2019-08-clues-early-social-ancient-extraordinary.html?fbclid=IwAR34Yk22CV2ARPrAMqXwpV rVV6LSUMDsxoib_KLtm8J7K9ADeJprpjGZRBIhttps://m.phys.org/news/2019-08-clues-early-social-ancient-extraordinary.html?fbclid=IwAR34Yk22CV2ARPrAMqXwpV rVV6LSUMDsxoib_KLtm8J7K9ADeJprpjGZRBI

Angela
05-09-19, 20:19
https://m.phys.org/news/2019-08-clues-early-social-ancient-extraordinary.html?fbclid=IwAR34Yk22CV2ARPrAMqXwpV rVV6LSUMDsxoib_KLtm8J7K9ADeJprpjGZRBIhttps://m.phys.org/news/2019-08-clues-early-social-ancient-extraordinary.html?fbclid=IwAR34Yk22CV2ARPrAMqXwpV rVV6LSUMDsxoib_KLtm8J7K9ADeJprpjGZRBIhttps://m.phys.org/news/2019-08-clues-early-social-ancient-extraordinary.html?fbclid=IwAR34Yk22CV2ARPrAMqXwpV rVV6LSUMDsxoib_KLtm8J7K9ADeJprpjGZRBI

Very interesting, not least because as we've maintained here, elites arose long before Yamnaya was formed and then arrived in Europe.

CrazyDonkey
10-09-19, 03:10
Note the mace head and dagger. Leadership, even at this early stage, had a military function, to organize and lead the defense and expansion of land, crops, herds, and resources. To support an elite not directly involved in production (officials, warriors, and priests) requires a surplus well beyond subsistence. Elites stimulate the growth of artisan classes, trade in luxuries, growth in wealth.

kingjohn
15-09-19, 19:48
Very interesting, not least because as we've maintained here, elites arose long before Yamnaya was formed and then arrived in Europe.

that is correct hope davidski read what you
say before r1a propaganda :laughing:

Angela
15-09-19, 20:30
that is correct hope davidski read what you
say before r1a propaganda :laughing:

Some people of European descent have a massive inferiority complex, partly because of the particular history of their area, and partly because the late arrival of "civilization" to European shores "offends" them.

I really do think even some academics subconsciously were influenced by these feelings. (Some, imo, had to be aware of the subtext. The history of the Journal of Indo-European Affairs makes for interesting reading.)

That's why, imo, the whole "Yamnaya Indo-European" saga was so wildly "off", with cultural practices of steppe nomads of the Iron Age attributed to people who lived two thousand years before and had much different practices. It's also why there was a conflict with the archaeology.

Of all the cultural "innovations" once attributed to the steppe groups, the only one left is the domestication of the horse. Everything else was borrowed either from "Old Europe" to their west or Maykop: the herding of domestic animals, the wheeled cart, metallurgy, even the kurgans. It took forever for the evidence to come out and be accepted, although if you ever read someone, anyone, besides David Anthony, particularly the Russians, the evidence was there already, although not as much of it as was later discovered.

It's the same with the growth of elites and elite burials. It happened elsewhere first.

You have no idea how long I was saying all of this before it became accepted even on pop gen boards. As I said, it was hard for certain Europeans to accept, indoctrinated as they were into the concept of the steppe ubermenschen. The Yamnaya people were in the right place at the right time to borrow technology from others, marry it to the domestication of the horse and a warlike mentality, and spread out to take over "greener pastures" when the steppe dried out. The Huns and Mongols did much the same thing thousands of years later. The civilized core falters, and the peripheral more mobile groups invade. It's happened over and over and may happen yet again.

bicicleur
15-09-19, 20:44
Very interesting, not least because as we've maintained here, elites arose long before Yamnaya was formed and then arrived in Europe.

this is nothing new, even in the 34 ka Sungir burial it was suggested those burried with these thousands of mamouth ivory beads must have belonged to an elite

I've never learned Yamna were the first
of course, I don't check all these sites

bicicleur
15-09-19, 20:47
and another thing

Maykop and Varna cemeteries clearly had elite burrials too
and what to say about Mesopotamia and Egypt?

does Davidsky ignore that as well?

Angela
15-09-19, 21:32
Most human beings see only what they wish to see. That's leaving aside actual charlatans who know they're distorting reality.

It's extremely difficult to train yourself to follow only the evidence. Usually, imo, it's only possible in non-personal situations and with the exercise of great mental discipline.