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luispaulo53
09-09-19, 18:33
According to FTDNA my haplogroup is J1-YSC235 (negative for everything else after it)!
First I thought that my ancestor was arab because they were here for almost 800 years (Portugal) but Maciamo says that only FGC12 subclade is linked to the propagation of islam and the arabic language from Saudi Arabia from the 7th century (CE).
Can you guys help me? How did my ancestor ended up here? Was he a farmer from the late neolithic? A jew maybe? Or maybe a soldier from the roman empire?
My admixture:
Iberian 46%
British Isles 29%
Southeast Europe 17%
North Africa 6%
East Central Africa <2%
East Europe <1%
My DYS388 as a value of 15 and YCAII 22-22

Btw, the admin of FTDNA J1 project has placed me under the Z27682 clade.

luispaulo53
03-11-19, 19:32
I just updated from Y67 to Y700! $259 was no brainer!

Pax Augusta
03-11-19, 20:09
Hi Luis, I suppose you've already seen this

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2317/

Duarte
03-11-19, 21:15
Your ancient male paternal ancestor must be an Alan.

The Alans were a people of Iranian origin in northeastern Caucasus, between the Don River and the Caspian Sea. They punctuated among the peoples who penetrated the late Roman Empire during the period of migrations of the barbarian peoples, migrating westward in the IV-V centuries.


In 460, the Huns destroyed their empire, forcing many to cross Europe to the Iberian Peninsula (in 609). In this migration, they eventually joined the suevi and the vandals that simultaneously occupied with them the Hispania.


The Alans settled in the Iberian Peninsula and, led by Atax, founded a kingdom in Lusitania, based in Pax Julia, the present-day city of Beja, Portugal. The city was destroyed in 418, forcing the Alans to move to North Africa where under Kings Gunderico and Genserico, founded the Kingdom of Vandals and Alans, that would be extinguished in century VI, with the Byzantine domination.


The Alans were an Iranian nomadic group among the Sarmatian peoples, war-ready nomadic shepherds of diverse backgrounds, who spoke an Iranian language and shared in a broad sense a common culture.

See:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans

And

https://pt.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alanos

Regards.

ShpataEMadhe
07-11-19, 00:28
Most J1 is arab in origin, some moved out to find new life, some moved out as conquerers and some stayed

That 6% north African and 2% East African points to an ancestor from that region but some of it could also be from the mothers side because 6-8% seems high, what is the average amount in Portugal?

It could also be a more recent migration instead of directly from early Arab conquests since there is also J1 in Morocco, Tunisia, Spain and other countries below Portugal due to that previous period

Duarte
07-11-19, 01:58
Btw, the admin of FTDNA J1 project has placed me under the Z27682 clade.

https://i.imgur.com/ChJzE1J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PIxB1OW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Qy1ROBL.png


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

luispaulo53
03-12-19, 18:39
My big Y results are here!! My haplogroup is indeed J-Z27682!
I still have no clue how the hell my ancestor got here. The only thing I know for sure (right?) is that he was not arab or jew. Can you guys help me?

ShpataEMadhe
22-12-19, 03:31
Congratulations!
If your J1 ancestor came 1000 or much more years ago from outside Europe, you have no way of knowing. We don't know either.

Jews in Portugal

"Jewish populations have existed in the area even before the country was established, back to the Roman era (province of Lusitania), even though an attested Jewish presence in Portuguese territory, can only be documented since 482 CE.[1] With the fall of the Roman Empire, Jews were persecuted by the Visigoths and other European Christian kingdoms which controlled the area after that period.

In 711, the Moorish invasion of the Iberian Peninsula was seen by many in the Jewish population as a liberation, and marked as the beginning of what many have seen as the Golden age of Jewish culture in the Iberian Peninsula (the Islamic Al-Andalus), even if the Jews, as well as the Christians (the Mozarabs of the Visigothic rite), under Muslim rule were considered Dhimmi, and had to pay a special tax.

Rapidly in the 8th century, the Christian kingdoms of the north mountainous areas of the Iberian Peninsula (Kingdom of Asturias) started a long military campaign against the Muslim invaders, the Reconquista. The Jews, since many knew the Arabic language, were used by the Christians as both spies and diplomats on this campaign that took centuries. This granted them some respect, although there was always prejudice."

I have no idea if jews were J1 before islam but if they were then they could explain this. Phoenicians may have also had some J1 but not sure what impact they had in Portugal

luispaulo53
24-12-19, 00:49
I only doubt that because my clade is way older than muslims or jews.

ZTD
31-12-19, 14:40
who said Arabs are only under FGC12 ?? have they forgot the Mehri , Say'ar tribes under L93 ? have they forgot about Kholan tribes under S4925 which both are older than YSC235 , Arabs in Socotra belong to the J Haplogroup (not J1 or J2 , but theJ-M304) i wouldn't be surprised that your ancestor came with the Islamic conquest or maybe with the Phoenicians .. but it has to do with "Semitic" people NOT Iranian at all

luispaulo53
01-02-20, 12:38
ZTD my clade is older than that.

"only FGC12 seems to be genuinely linked to the medieval Arabic expansion from Saudi Arabia."

I just visited FTDNA and my clade is no longer Z27682 but Z27670. Yfull says that its Z27681.

My ancestor probably came here a long time ago from somewhere near the caucasus.

luispaulo53
16-03-20, 05:20
So, got an update from Yfull. Im now J1 Z27670. My line is 1694 years old. I, a guy from Colombia and another from Peru shared a TMRCA 1700 years ago. Any ideas? This gives me 326 AD. Barbarian invasions?