View Full Version : Balto-Slavic Z284 & L664

19-11-19, 09:05
Is it possible that Z284 is a Balt-Scandinavian hybrid and that L664 is a Slav-German hybrid? In my theory, Kurlanders were Z284 and Wends were L664, that they represented points of contact for literal "dissemination" among North and West Germanic folks, although I accept the possibility of convergence. While it makes sense that East Germany is R1a, especially given Prussia, the fact that Norway on the other side of the mountains would be R1a makes very little sense, seeing as how Sweden is the land with the highest profile on YFull and most intensive record of Balto-Slavic relations, even ruling Poland-Lithuania, but it went back at least to Kurland in AD 650, if not earlier in the 5th century. My theory as to why R1a doesn't predominate in Sweden, is due to that being the naturally well-disposed I1 native region, so R1a would have had to eke out a living by crossing the mountains on unclaimed (poorer) virgin soil in the margins of the I1 population.

That may be a bit like the more recent example of colonial American Scotch-Irish and Germans moving into Appalachia, while the English and Africans remained on the Atlantic seaboard, but a similar observation was made of Vikings in Northumbria, whereby Norsemen took to the fells above and the Danes took to the dales below. There is also the case of Finnic N pushing into the Baltic and displacing native R1a toward Scandinavia in a domino effect that led to Viking expansions, a bit like earlier times in which the Huns triggered the Völkerwanderung, that not only moved the Goths and Vandals out of their homelands, but the Slavs(, i.e. Wends) took their places. A big reason why N is so pervasive in the Baltic, which, despite Lettlanders being obviously innate R1a carriers, has to do with the Livlanders' Finnic roots alongside Estland, as not even the Balts are entirely Baltic, never mind some Scandinavians actually being Baltic rather than Germanic, or some Germans really Slavs.

One thing I've noticed, is that R1b is in all of what was the Western Roman Empire and associated lands of Germany and Ireland, so it's not clear that R1b are any more than a West Germanic of nurture--same as R1a North Germanic, because only I1 seems to be from the earliest East Germanics of nature. Most of the East Germanic tribes were from Sweden (Gothi-Scandza: Götaland/Gotland-Skåne) and the chiefly attested tongue, Gothic, is the most conservative. I have noticed that North Germanic simplified the Elder Futhark to a pretty bastardised Younger Futhark, not much different irreverence than the freewheeling approach to pronunciation of Danish, or that English is accused of with respect for traditional rules, so Icelandic is not exactly old-fashioned after all.

https://a (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4785-Earliest-R-Z284-offshoot-is-Polish)nthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4785-Earliest-R-Z284-offshoot-is-Polish (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4785-Earliest-R-Z284-offshoot-is-Polish)

This one disagrees, but I'm not sure how Scandinavians would cluster closer to Slavs than to Balts, especially given the intensive relationship that Germans already have with Slavs and not so much with Balts. There are proportional differences in relationships and geography is everything where that's concerned.


It's hard to grasp that I am not a legit Goth/Teuton, but an heir of assimilated forefathers, since I had thought nothing of this until my DNA test. One may wonder what the point is in carrying on in the unnatural basis to this identity, when we might fit in better as Balts and Slavs. The change in perspective is bewildering for one to whom the Cold War pitted the East and West against each other on absolutely existential terms.