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View Full Version : How did E-V13 get into Italy? (speculations please)



Faunus
29-12-19, 18:57
How did E-V13 get into Italy?

My paternal hg is from a small mountain town in Italy, Trevi nel Lazio. The town is in the ancient Aequi territory. I found records of my (rare) surname from around 1500. I don't think people from such mountain communities moved a lot.

I want to speculate with you about how this hg got there. From what I've seen in the Moots paper, E-V13 got into Rome only in the imperial age. So I think it's the same for the small villages around Rome.

Maybe some people from Magna Graecia who moved to Rome and settled there, and after the barbarian invasions fleed to random small villages? Or Illyrians? Or maybe even people of thracian origin (former slaves). Or maybe the ostrogoths! According to the Moots paper, E-V13 increased in numbers during the middle ages. It was quite a big jump. And this is weird. The main movements to Italy during the middle ages were barbarian. And the barbarians often spent time in the balkans before entering Italy.

P.S. Sorry for the fanboyish question, and I know speculations have no real use in such a case. I just would like to read some reasoning of people more expert than me.

mihaitzateo
29-12-19, 19:45
Greeks, mainly.
Since the Roman Empire contained Greece, also.
After, South Italy was part of Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire.

Since I see E-V13 at Romanian also, I suppose some Thracians/Dacians also settled in Italy, when Thracia was part of Roman empire.
However, I think is E-V13 even more ancient in Italy.

Albanians migrations - think those Albanians migrations were around 11th - 14th centuries, first of those.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB_people

Progon
29-12-19, 20:23
Maybe it's a good idea to do a deep clade testing to see your subclade?

You have better chances of deducing the right answer.

Shetop
30-12-19, 20:59
In my opinion E-V13 entered Italy from the East.
I also believe there were two main routes which E-V13 people followed on their way to Italy. Those are:

1. Greek and Illyrian migration.
You already assumed this one so I won't elaborate, I will just mention the obvious - this route went over the sea.

2. Northern land route.
This route went through the Venetian plain. It is hard to estimate which route was more significant for the migration of E-V13 to Italy, but maybe we can put it this way. For the South Italy the "sea route" of course contributed more, and for the North Italy I believe that the "Venetian plain route" was the main way how E-V13 entered what is today's Italy.
It is quite harder to estimate the timeframe in which this second route was used for migration of E-V13. Personally I believe that certain share of E-V13 entered North Italy even before Roman empire was established there. But I also think that significant part of E-V13 used this route during the "Migration Period".

Riverman
02-04-20, 20:37
The most likely scenario seems to be that different clades of E-V13 entered Italy at different times. With the first coming with European Neolithics, followed by Bell Beakers, Venetians, Illyrians and exchange within the Roman Empire (Greeks and Thracians) and at the end even Germanic and Slavic companions. For the South it seems to be most likely that the vast majority came from Greeks and Illyrians.