PDA

View Full Version : Lazaridis et al. 2017 (Dodecad K7b)



Jovialis
10-06-20, 20:52
Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans, in combined raw data format, for Dodecad K7b


I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete,0,22.65,0,0.08,51.64,25.42,0.21
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete,0,23.67,0,0.38,47.43,28.52,0
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete,0,24.27,0,0.53,49.25,25.95,0
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete,0,22.21,0,0.35,49.11,28.33,0
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province,0,31.33,0,2.71 ,40.93,24.35,0.68
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province,0,33.62,0.18,1 .4,40.53,24.28,0
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province,0,34.82,0.13,2 .92,41.95,19.74,0.43
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave,0,13. 15,0,2.15,49.96,33.94,0.8
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete,0,22.61,0,0.55,50.99,25.86,0
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis,0, 26.27,0,0.49,39.99,32.71,0.55
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese,0.36,15.84,0,0.65,46.51,36.54,0.09
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese,0.49,18.69,0.88,3.04,37.28,39.38,0.24
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese,0,21.6,0,0.73,40.65,37.02,0
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete,0,17.73,0,1.4,34.95 ,45.92,0
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete,0,19.26,0,0.86,51.08,28.8,0
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete,0,12.13,2.52,0,52.68,31.22,1.45
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete,0,12.99,0,0,51.08,35.93,0
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete,0,21.69,0,0,48.8,29.51,0
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete,0,26.94,0,0,49.97,23.1,0

Angela
10-06-20, 21:08
Too bad that Armenoi sample is so unreliable. This version does put me a little closer to the one Mycenaean sample. Makes me sad I'm so far from the Minoans; one of my favorite cultures.



Distance to:
angela


6.29387003
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


13.48408692
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


17.31640263
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


20.69998792
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


22.26658258
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


24.77961662
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


25.32232612
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


27.88914126
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


28.29610574
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


29.09217421
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


29.32003752
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


29.56796577
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


31.49904443
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


31.92240279
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


32.21982775
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


32.88659453
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


32.95443824
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


34.87317737
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


37.70120290
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province

Jovialis
10-06-20, 21:09
https://i.imgur.com/YwDfQxj.png
https://i.imgur.com/EI5t5uf.png

bigsnake49
10-06-20, 21:33
Mine:



Distance to:
Bigsnake49


12.12611232
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


16.10770002
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


19.01526229
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


21.12739217
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


25.60185735
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


29.07804326
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


29.35965599
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


29.42317624
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


29.91965575
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


30.63614205
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


30.69305785
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


30.84823172
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


32.41480834
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


32.48329725
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


33.84073729
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


34.27589678
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


34.45734174
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


34.61556297
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


34.97014298
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete

Jovialis
10-06-20, 21:34
Too bad that Armenoi sample is so unreliable. This version does put me a little closer to the one Mycenaean sample. Makes me sad I'm so far from the Minoans; one of my favorite cultures.



Distance to:
angela


6.29387003
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


13.48408692
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


17.31640263
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


20.69998792
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


22.26658258
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


24.77961662
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


25.32232612
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


27.88914126
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


28.29610574
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


29.09217421
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


29.32003752
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


29.56796577
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


31.49904443
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


31.92240279
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


32.21982775
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


32.88659453
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


32.95443824
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


34.87317737
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


37.70120290
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province




Without the Armenoi sample, my "single" result is composed of two Mycenaean samples, however at 8.5+ distance.

https://i.imgur.com/nJWTkQ9.png

Gabriele Pashaj
10-06-20, 21:41
12186


What’s this ‘Bronze age Armenoi Crete’?

Jovialis
10-06-20, 21:46
12186


What’s this ‘Bronze age Armenoi Crete’?

It is a low-quality sample, thus it is unreliable. Isolf Lazaridis publicly stated so, on twitter. Moreover, it comes from a later period from the other samples as well.

Angela
10-06-20, 23:24
Without the Armenoi sample, my "single" result is composed of two Mycenaean samples, however at 8.5+ distance.

https://i.imgur.com/nJWTkQ9.png

I think we need samples with more steppe to fit us better.

Salento
11-06-20, 02:39
...with dod 7 (by Jovialis), ... getting closer:

https://i.imgur.com/jf7G1od.gif
https://i.imgur.com/3SYGErF.gif

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 03:09
My Dodecad 7 using Lazaridis et al 2017 Ancient Greek samples. Closer to the Mycenaean Greeks vs. Minoans.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


4.93154134
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


5.89158722
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


6.74245504
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


11.16441221
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


13.13417679
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


13.87903815
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


14.67297857
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


15.33178072
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


15.47671477
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


16.32847819
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


16.90629173
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


17.50386529
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


17.84991597
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


18.38965470
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


18.50282951
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


19.17182047
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


19.57782419
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


21.10822115
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


21.31373970
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete





Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 1.9575% / 1.95748127 | ADC: 0.25x




67.4
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis





32.6
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 2.1446% / 2.14456946 | ADC: 0.5x




67.8
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis





26.6
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete





5.6
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 4.2005% / 4.20045505 | ADC: 1x




65.8
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese





28.2
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis





6.0
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 4.9315% / 4.93154134 | ADC: 2x




100.0
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 03:42
Palermo, that's pretty close, much closer than me for sure. It would help if we had some modern Cretan DNA to compare it to.

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 03:52
Palermo, that's pretty close, much closer than me for sure. It would help if we had some modern Cretan DNA to compare it to.

The Cretans would be the modern Minoans correct, not the Mycenaean's which are more mainland. While I am closer Distance wise to the Mycenaean's using Dodecad 7, I get DNA matches on both Minoans and Mycenaean's at MTA. 4 matches with Minoans, 2 with Mycenaean's but I get a larger segment with the Thracian than any of the Minoans or Mycenaean's which is maybe why I plot closer to Mycenaean's. That is just conjecture on my part. Or maybe it is just autosomal wise, I am closer to the Mycenaean's regardless of the matches. Some common source ancestries shared by Ancient Greeks and Sicily/Southern Italy and even other part of Italy.

12189

Salento
11-06-20, 04:37
The Cretans would be the modern Minoans correct, not the Mycenaean's which are more mainland. While I am closer Distance wise to the Mycenaean's using Dodecad 7, I get DNA matches on both Minoans and Mycenaean's at MTA. 4 matches with Minoans, 2 with Mycenaean's but I get a larger segment with the Thracian than any of the Minoans or Mycenaean's which is maybe why I plot closer to Mycenaean's. That is just conjecture on my part. Or maybe it is just autosomal wise, I am closer to the Mycenaean's regardless of the matches. Some common source ancestries shared by Ancient Greeks and Sicily/Southern Italy and even other part of Italy.

12189


Common source / shared Ancestry:

https://i.imgur.com/W8ZTKDD.jpg

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 04:44
Salento: I would think your updated ancient map of matches would look similar to mine. Am I correct?

Salento
11-06-20, 05:19
Salento: I would think your updated ancient map of matches would look similar to mine. Am I correct?

Yes, more or less,

but the Chroma-Analysis samples I posted are connected to me and to each other at the chromosomal level:

” Multiple samples can share the same segments, this can denote greater common ancestry”

... You should have them too.

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 07:01
Yes, more or less,

but the Chroma-Analysis samples I posted are connected to me and to each other at the chromosomal level:

” Multiple samples can share the same segments, this can denote greater common ancestry”

... You should have them too.

Ok, yes, I need to go back and check the Chroma-Analysis.

lacreme
11-06-20, 10:32
My Greek friend gets the following



Distance to:
Chris


10.07360909
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


11.90707773
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


12.59780536
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


14.83348577
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


16.39738089
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


16.51671880
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


18.99042654
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


20.08867343
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


20.37512945
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


20.93893264
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


21.40357447
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


21.62056660
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


23.38093240
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


23.52176864
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


23.53762732
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


24.25064329
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


24.76740398
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


25.42504081
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


27.97856501
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete



Target: Chris
Distance: 758.3162% / 7.58316185

53.6I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete46.4I2499_Bronze _Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province

( Why does it look like the distance % is glitched ? It happens only with Dodecad )

Stuvanè
11-06-20, 11:48
Mine



Distance to:
Stuvanè_Dodecadk7b


6.55855929
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


13.26871885
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


17.03275374
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


21.40057009
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


21.42168994
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


25.86476948
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


26.22964163
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


27.92743991
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


28.08697741
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


29.07277593
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


29.86000502
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


30.21347547
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


30.80269956
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


31.29061041
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


31.63997155
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


32.19990683
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


32.95317435
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


34.49393860
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


36.49975068
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province





Target: Stuvanè_Dodecadk7b
Distance: 6.5586% / 6.55855929

100.0I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 15:47
The Cretans would be the modern Minoans correct, not the Mycenaean's which are more mainland. While I am closer Distance wise to the Mycenaean's using Dodecad 7, I get DNA matches on both Minoans and Mycenaean's at MTA. 4 matches with Minoans, 2 with Mycenaean's but I get a larger segment with the Thracian than any of the Minoans or Mycenaean's which is maybe why I plot closer to Mycenaean's. That is just conjecture on my part. Or maybe it is just autosomal wise, I am closer to the Mycenaean's regardless of the matches. Some common source ancestries shared by Ancient Greeks and Sicily/Southern Italy and even other part of Italy.

12189

Yeah, both modern day descendants of the Minoans and the Myceneans. I would also like some Classical Antiquity Greeks to test.

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 15:51
Completely unscientific and based on a few data points but it seems that our Italian friends are closer to the Minoans and Myceneans than some of the modern Greeks. I would like some of the other Greeks that hang around here to take the test. Maybe they will make a liar out of me but I think the modern Italians had less admixture events than the Greeks.

Jovialis
11-06-20, 16:04
Completely unscientific and based on a few data points but it seems that our Italian friends are closer to the Minoans and Myceneans than some of the modern Greeks. I would like some of the other Greeks that hang around here to take the test. Maybe they will make a liar out of me but I think the modern Italians had less admixture events than the Greeks.

I think modern Pelopennesians would come out similar to Myceaneans. However, I haven't seen anyone on this board from there.

Below is a PCA I made for K7b with samples from Haak et al. 2015, Lazaridis et al 2017, and select eras from Antonio M. et al. 2019. It is mostly accurate, compared to the academic PCAs. However, R15 is wrong, since it is clustering with modern Northern Europeans. Also, the Greek sample from K7b seems to be perhaps from a more northern part of Greece. It is tough to see, though, it is between me, and C_Italy. Perhaps it is just due to how this calculator works, but I am usually, "West" of Greek samples; I am for K12b.

https://i.imgur.com/k3faB5M.png


I think we need samples with more steppe to fit us better.

Indeed, above, I am bracketed between the Mycenaean, and Yamnaya clusters.

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 16:33
Distance to:
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


1.88018616
Ashkenazy_Jews


2.02316584
Ashkenazi


2.98481155
Sicilian


3.95773925
S_Italian_Sicilian


7.58703499
Sephardic_Jews


8.80895567
Morocco_Jews


10.57741462
Greek


11.96443480
C_Italian


17.20127030
Cypriots


18.73890872
Tuscan


19.18717540
TSI30


20.83918664
O_Italian


23.56318527
Turkish


24.49232533
Lebanese


24.66211062
Turks


26.79884326
Syrians


27.18660884
Bulgarian


27.49257536
Druze


27.75671811
Jordanians


27.80351956
North_Italian


27.97716390
Palestinian


28.09444251
Bulgarians


28.13523947
N_Italian


29.20492595
Romanians


30.95241025
Algerian




Wow is that close to Ashkenazy Jews or what? Then Sicilians then Sephardic Jews then Greeks.

kingjohn
11-06-20, 16:40
Distance to:
adam


5.56978456
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


9.86920463
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


11.15019282
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


11.50790598
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


12.35573551
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


14.15913133
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


15.88881997
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


16.24245055
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


16.43875604
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


16.54025393
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


16.89301039
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


17.61596151
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


18.08058351
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


18.57751060
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


19.14544855
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


19.30560022
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


21.71154992
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


22.67110496
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


24.48510976
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 16:45
Distance to:
adam


5.56978456
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


9.86920463
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


11.15019282
I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


11.50790598
I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


12.35573551
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


14.15913133
I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


15.88881997
I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


16.24245055
I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


16.43875604
I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province


16.54025393
I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


16.89301039
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


17.61596151
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


18.08058351
I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


18.57751060
I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


19.14544855
I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


19.30560022
I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_La sithi_Crete


21.71154992
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


22.67110496
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


24.48510976
I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete




Great matches, @kingjohn. I do have a question though, not necessarily to you but to all. There is a large differences between the Myceneans themselves right? How can that be explained? Pelasgians and early Greeks?

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 17:01
Distance to:
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


12.34200956
Ashkenazi


12.68610657
Sicilian


12.94122483
Ashkenazy_Jews


12.96400787
S_Italian_Sicilian


13.55992257
Morocco_Jews


14.85918908
C_Italian


15.72454451
Sephardic_Jews


16.17341955
Greek


18.89130752
TSI30


19.46426212
Tuscan


21.75305726
O_Italian


22.65470150
Sardinian


25.11627958
Algerian


25.23310326
North_Italian


25.33349364
Canarias


25.48131668
Moroccan


26.73031051
N_Italian


26.99465688
Cypriots


28.72409964
Murcia


29.87740785
Bulgarian


29.90239957
Andalucia


30.10030399
Baleares


30.22263887
Portuguese


30.26925007
Bulgarians


30.68868684
Galicia



Approximately the same suspects but at greater distances.

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 17:06
Distance to:
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


6.37029042
C_Italian


7.88775000
Greek


7.95893209
S_Italian_Sicilian


8.38101426
Sicilian


9.16374923
Ashkenazi


9.51448370
Ashkenazy_Jews


11.00157261
TSI30


11.11255146
Tuscan


13.05934914
O_Italian


16.28627029
Morocco_Jews


17.08722915
Sephardic_Jews


18.65075334
North_Italian


19.42515380
N_Italian


20.72999276
Bulgarian


21.00997382
Canarias


21.27521093
Bulgarians


22.25436137
Romanians


23.81640191
Murcia


24.66084751
Baleares


24.87300947
Andalucia


25.00129997
Portuguese


25.24782367
Sardinian


25.47632234
Extremadura


25.50542295
Galicia


26.99235077
Castilla_Y_Leon



Hmmmm...this time Central Italians and then Greeks

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 17:08
Distance to:
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


4.91159852
S_Italian_Sicilian


5.00959080
Sicilian


5.41903128
Ashkenazi


5.86770824
Ashkenazy_Jews


8.28165442
C_Italian


8.59172858
Greek


12.11419828
Morocco_Jews


12.58491160
Sephardic_Jews


14.54003439
Tuscan


14.57078584
TSI30


16.83085856
O_Italian


22.69202062
North_Italian


23.27844067
Cypriots


23.43962030
N_Italian


24.28525890
Bulgarian


24.95423411
Bulgarians


25.55431470
Canarias


26.03458853
Romanians


27.51686392
Sardinian


28.12577110
Murcia


28.90805770
Baleares


29.14528778
Andalucia


29.51726613
Portuguese


29.54254221
Algerian


29.72345538
Turkish



Again Sicilians and central Italians before Greeks

Jovialis
11-06-20, 17:09
It is worth mentioning, that the Philistine, ASH068, is similar to the other Myceanean samples. The others, are BA_Levantines, and ASH067 is a mixed individual between them.

There is a lot of Greek admixture in Ashkenazi Jews, among other European groups. Moreover, there has been admixture from south eastern Europe, into the Levant, throughout the ages.



Distance to:
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


5.55584377
ASH068


20.30147285
ASH067


26.73322839
ASH029


27.57081609
ASH135


30.74381564
ASH066


33.78499371
ASH033


34.22080508
ASH2-3


36.88504304
ASH034


40.68090707
ASH008


42.13864497
ASH087





Distance to:
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


5.29715018
ASH068


24.75179993
ASH067


31.31179490
ASH029


31.59808064
ASH135


34.71323091
ASH066


38.00821359
ASH2-3


38.24450287
ASH033


41.30553958
ASH034


45.08003327
ASH008


46.51836842
ASH087





Distance to:
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


5.80381771
ASH068


23.81889796
ASH067


27.96274665
ASH029


28.26997347
ASH135


32.23177780
ASH066


36.33625049
ASH033


38.91225899
ASH034


39.12660476
ASH2-3


42.22497247
ASH087


42.51937323
ASH008

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 17:14
Distance to:
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


14.41333410
Morocco_Jews


16.21746898
Ashkenazi


16.84759330
Ashkenazy_Jews


16.87937795
Sicilian


17.36177986
Sephardic_Jews


17.41695151
S_Italian_Sicilian


19.99025262
C_Italian


21.14857442
Moroccan


21.25149877
Greek


21.28967355
Algerian


23.17753654
Sardinian


23.75997054
TSI30


24.41527391
Tuscan


26.59943984
O_Italian


28.17888216
Canarias


28.27585896
Cypriots


29.04586373
Moroccans


29.07965268
Mozabite


29.49779992
North_Italian


31.18374897
N_Italian


32.05965377
Murcia


33.31165262
Andalucia


33.52022375
Portuguese


33.57559233
Egyptans


33.71465853
Baleares



This one is a neolithic sample and is away from everyone but still both Ashkenazy Jews and Sephardic and Moroccan Jews and Italians before Greeks.

kingjohn
11-06-20, 17:32
Great matches, @kingjohn. I do have a question though, not necessarily to you but to all. There is a large differences between the Myceneans themselves right? How can that be explained? Pelasgians and early Greeks?


i think this one ( I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
was not in the best coverage :thinking:
and he showed some levantine admixture
in eurogenes k13
in 4 populations he was modeled
50% Lebanese+ ( rest european)

the other one (I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelop o nnese)
was in better coverage so this my real distance from Mycenaean 9.8

p.s
to answere your question i am not expert but there could have been some substructure in the Mycenaean

Jovialis
11-06-20, 17:39
i think this one ( I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis
was not in the best coverage :thinking:
and he showed some levantine admixture
in eurogenes k13
in 4 populations he was modeled
50% Lebanese+ ( rest european)

the other one (I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelop o nnese)
was in better coverage so this my real distance from Mycenaean 9.8

p.s
to answere your question i am not expert but there could have been some substructure in the Mycenaean

That's not what the study said, there is no Levantine in the Myceaneans. I'd suggest not trusting eurogenes, but the official paper. There is already an extensive thread on this matter.

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 17:39
I sort took Jovialis post #21 and decided to combine the Roman K7 coordinates (Antonio et al 2019) and Ancient Greek K7 (Lazaridis et al 2017) and run distances (cut off <=10). 3 Mycenaean's are still in that list. At 0.25X I get it pretty close, well really close.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


0.83982141
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata


1.42656931
R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


1.68508160
R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


1.75396693
R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto


1.84111379
R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


1.88055843
R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


1.88801483
R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


1.94787063
R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


2.14513403
R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio


2.61122577
R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


3.23077390
R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


3.28645706
R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis


3.90117931
R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


4.03136453
R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi


4.08694262
R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche


4.10084138
R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis


4.16408453
R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


4.20110700
R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


4.29206244
R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


4.57546719
R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti


4.61968614
R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


4.85639784
R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


4.93154134
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


4.97722814
R969_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti


4.99195353
R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


5.22896739
R836_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche


5.79497196
R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


5.89158722
I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis


6.08517050
R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


6.09579363
R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro


6.37355474
R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese


6.56041157
R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina


6.74245504
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


6.84029239
R1549_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo


7.38439571
R970_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti


8.06102351
R69_Imperial_Era_ANAS


8.23583633
R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


8.31398821
R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


8.36538104
R50_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis


8.39415868
R30_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto


8.53855960
R137_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro


8.60519610
R125_Imperial_Era_Casale_del_Dolce


8.66573136
R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria


9.45386693
R51_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis


9.63031152
R111_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


10.38092000
R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria


10.39096242
R36_Late_Antiquity_Celio





Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.1416% / 0.14155023 | ADC: 0.25x




42.8
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata





25.6
R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis





15.2
R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna





11.8
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese





2.6
R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna





1.8
R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio





0.2
R80_Imperial_Era_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.4262% / 0.42621808 | ADC: 0.5x




73.8
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata





10.0
R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna





7.4
R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna





6.8
R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio





1.2
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese





0.8
R132_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.8081% / 0.80806989 | ADC: 1x




97.2
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata





1.2
R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna





1.0
R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna





0.6
R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio








Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.8398% / 0.83982141 | ADC: 2x




100.0
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata

Jovialis
11-06-20, 17:45
That's not what the study said, there is no Levantine in the Myceaneans. I'd suggest not trusting eurogenes, but the official paper. There is already an extensive thread on this matter.

The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data from 19 ancient individuals, including Minoans from Crete, Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and their eastern neighbours from southwestern Anatolia. Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1,2, and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3 and Iran4,5. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia6–8, introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe1,6,9 or Armenia4,9. Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the Early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/nature23310_0.pdf

kingjohn
11-06-20, 17:54
The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data from 19 ancient individuals, including Minoans from Crete, Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and their eastern neighbours from southwestern Anatolia. Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1,2, and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3 and Iran4,5. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia6–8, introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe1,6,9 or Armenia4,9. Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the Early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/nature23310_0.pdf


ok
thanks jovialis :good_job:
so that show that eurogenes k13 is not the best ....:thinking:
in mdlp k11 he also score basal ...
i guess those calculators can't handle ancient remains ....:thinking:

Angela
11-06-20, 19:30
Distance to:
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


6.37029042
C_Italian


7.88775000
Greek


7.95893209
S_Italian_Sicilian


8.38101426
Sicilian


9.16374923
Ashkenazi


9.51448370
Ashkenazy_Jews


11.00157261
TSI30


11.11255146
Tuscan


13.05934914
O_Italian


16.28627029
Morocco_Jews


17.08722915
Sephardic_Jews


18.65075334
North_Italian


19.42515380
N_Italian


20.72999276
Bulgarian


21.00997382
Canarias


21.27521093
Bulgarians


22.25436137
Romanians


23.81640191
Murcia


24.66084751
Baleares


24.87300947
Andalucia


25.00129997
Portuguese


25.24782367
Sardinian


25.47632234
Extremadura


25.50542295
Galicia


26.99235077
Castilla_Y_Leon



Hmmmm...this time Central Italians and then Greeks

This is my closest match among the Mycenaeans and Minoans.



13.48408692
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


17.31640263
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese



I think it's my part Tuscan heritage which is pulling me closer, but I'm still too northern as a whole so I'm at a 13. After 19041 it gets into the 22s. Interestingly, I'm closer to the Greek Neolithic than to the Minoans.

As you said in one of your posts, the Mycenaeans vary a bit depending on the area. It looks to me like early, spotty admixture, which hadn't had time to homogenize. Some had more steppe, pulling them north, some less.

For what it's worth, in the very early days when Otzi's genome was released, the paper showed that after Sardinians, he was pretty close to certain Sicilians, which I interpreted to mean a lot of EEF with some Caucasus like dna, the latter of which Otzi also had.

Also, in very early days when they were trying to figure out who had a lot of EEF, Ashkenazi Jews turned out to have a lot of it, plus a good amount of Caucasus like dna.

What I'm getting at is that the Ashkenazim, because of their unique mixture of ancestry (EEF, Iran Neo/CHG, plus some steppe) turn out to be very similar to island Greeks, Southern Italian/Sicilians, and even "some", and I emphasize "some" Mycenaeans. I said until I was blue in the face that it didn't "necessarily" mean that all this "Jewish" dna went into the Southern Italian/Sicilian genome, no matter what some Calabrian rabbi convert, or old documents about Jews who converted might say, but in this "hobby", for various reasons, people believe what they want regardless...

kingjohn
11-06-20, 19:39
it is probably a southern european gene flow
to the jews ( during 2000 years that we were in someone else backyard)
not the other way around
kind regards
adam

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 20:18
it is probably a southern european gene flow
to the jews ( during 2000 years that we were in someone else backyard)
not the other way around
kind regards
adam

kingjohn: I think your post, Angela's as well, are on target. What is the direction of causality? to think of it in Statistical/Regression language. What is the Y (Dependent variable) vs X (explanatory/independent variable) in explaining the admixture into Southern Italian/Sicilian, Greeks, Ashkenazi Jews. I agree it is Southern European Gene flow into certain Jewish populations, not the other way around. I know when I run distances on modern populations, Ashkenazi Jewish distances are much closer than other Diaspora Jewish populations (Sephardic for example) and other Levantine populations (Syrian, Lebanon, Jordanian, etc).

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 20:42
I do believe that the direction of flow is mainly Jewish men taking goyim wives. That can be verified by looking at mt and Y-DNA haplos.

matadworf
12-06-20, 01:12
7.36650528I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
10.26614826I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_T ryfilia_Peloponnese
12.85325640I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apat heia_Peloponnese
15.57055233I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki _Salamis
19.50467380I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apat heia_Peloponnese
23.41702372I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
23.84516303I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
24.32356882I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
24.56317976I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa _Cave
24.67506839I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
24.81119102I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
24.96022636I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
26.33523875I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
26.52846019I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
27.84392752I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
28.48974201I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
28.62323182I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
29.29516172I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
29.85156445I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province

Angela
12-06-20, 03:44
The issue is that no IBD segments of any consequence have been found between Ashkenazi Jews and Italians. Also, the mtDna, once you get down to a more granular level, doesn't really match.

My hunch is that a lot of the mixture actually took place in the Levant itself and in what used to be called Asia Minor, and so may be more ancient Greek like in origin.

That's just a hunch though. We need, as always, more ancient dna, not only from Israel at the appropriate time periods, but from Asia Minor, i.e. places like Antioch, Tarsus, Ephesus etc.

kingjohn
12-06-20, 06:28
Because the southern european gene
Flow was pre-bottleneck we experienced in medival time
I don't expect to see we share ibd with
Italians....
But there is overlap in genetic markers
But i do agree that we can aquired it in asia minor could be greek geneflow....

P.s
About aschenazi mtdna yes...
J1c7a, v7a, look european aquired to me
But most ashkenazim belong to woman mtdna founders (k1a1b1a, k1a9, n1b2, k2a9)

Salento
12-06-20, 06:30
Salento: I would think your updated ancient map of matches would look similar to mine. Am I correct?

... I checked, ... I think my 23andme and AncestryDNA Deep Dive maps are somewhat similar to yours,

the Combined (bigger file) has more matches, though Ötzi is closer to me in the smaller 23andme, lol

I often gain or lose matches when I re-upload the files, sometimes I get more Spanish, Seleucids, Hittites and others, ...

:thinking: Majority of our matches are not far from the coastline, ... we’re some other Sea People :grin:

23andme:
https://i.imgur.com/JhZH3Uv.jpg
Combined:
https://i.imgur.com/kHOgTAM.jpg

Salento
12-06-20, 07:39
I’m looking at the maps above, ... more or less, all roads lead to Rome :)

Palermo Trapani
12-06-20, 07:56
I’m looking at the maps above, ... more or less, all roads lead to Rome :)

Thanks, yes I agree, all Roads lead to the Eternal City. That 900 BC from the Black Sea area. First time I have seen that one show up, is that one of these new samples? How do you get your MTA Map too that size. I use SNIP and save it as a Jpeg but I can't format it larger, or least, haven't figured that out yet, or maybe my snipper doesn't have that capability:thinking:

Salento
12-06-20, 08:22
Thanks, yes I agree, all Roads lead to the Eternal City. That 900 BC from the Black Sea area. First time I have seen that one show up, is that one of these new samples? How do you get your MTA Map too that size. I use SNIP and save it as a Jpeg but I can't format it larger, or least, haven't figured that out yet, or maybe my snipper doesn't have that capability:thinking:

... with the iPhone, I just press on it, I save the images and upload them to imgur, ... that’s it, no editing required :)

... you probably saw that Thracian a few months ago :)

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39706-Ancient-Rome-Test-(Various-Calculators)?p=599848&viewfull=1#post599848

https://i.imgur.com/M7exLGv.jpg

Salento
12-06-20, 16:09
..............
That 900 BC from the Black Sea area. First time I have seen that one show up, is that one of these new samples?
..............
about MJ12 - 900 BC Thraco-Cimmerian Black Sea:

https://i.imgur.com/cf1Yihg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qVUXv5X.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7EyruIC.jpg



https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)30712-2 (https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)30712-2)

Palermo Trapani
12-06-20, 16:35
Salento: Ok, thanks, never thought of using iphone from screen. As for the 900 Black See Sample, for some reason just I just seemed to notice it this time. Looks like the sample is plotting in Genoa, Liguria area on your PCA Plot.

bigsnake49
13-06-20, 15:30
7.36650528I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete
10.26614826I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_T ryfilia_Peloponnese
12.85325640I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apat heia_Peloponnese
15.57055233I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki _Salamis
19.50467380I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apat heia_Peloponnese
23.41702372I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
23.84516303I9130_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
24.32356882I2495_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
24.56317976I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa _Cave
24.67506839I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
24.81119102I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
24.96022636I2499_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province
26.33523875I9127_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
26.52846019I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
27.84392752I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
28.48974201I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
28.62323182I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalam bos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete
29.29516172I9131_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_ Heraklion_Crete
29.85156445I2683_Bronze_Age_Harmanören-Göndürle_Höyük_Isparta_Province

That's pretty close to the Myceneans @metaworf.

goblinjames
13-06-20, 20:22
Dodecad is unmaintained since 2012