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View Full Version : Feldman et al. 2019 - Philistines (Dodecad K7b)



Jovialis
11-06-20, 17:14
Ancient DNA sheds light on the genetic origins of early Iron Age Philistines, in combined raw data format, for Dodecad K7b


ASH2-3,1.21,46.62,0,0,38.35,13.83,0
ASH008,0.18,42.51,0,1.54,51.21,3.78,0.78
ASH029,0.15,33.22,0,1.32,50.32,14.98,0
ASH033,0.16,40.98,0,0.48,48.03,10.35,0
ASH034,0.44,40.99,0,1.22,49.91,7.05,0.39
ASH066,5.15,33.5,0.99,2.59,47.65,10.12,0
ASH067,0,33.93,0,0.79,44.03,21.25,0
ASH068_Philistine,0,16.83,0,1.14,41.71,39.5,0.82
ASH087,1.41,36.28,2.08,1.7,57.25,1.28,0
ASH135,0,30.62,0,5.42,50.08,13.2,0.69

https://i.imgur.com/E0jDMPq.png

kingjohn
11-06-20, 17:40
Distance to:
adam


15.12701557
ASH068_Philistine


15.76275357
ASH067


24.16135551
ASH029


25.56163336
ASH135


26.52904258
ASH2-3


27.28814395
ASH066


28.93002592
ASH033


32.44074598
ASH034


36.25941809
ASH008


39.64634662
ASH087

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 17:51
Jovialis: Great work. Do Feldman et al 2019 provide any discussion as to why ASH068 being closer distance wise to you and a little more so to me then big break till ASH067, 19.97 for me and 23.33 for you. Seems like the 10 samples follow a similar distribution pattern for you and me. Pattern looks similar for KingJohn as well.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


9.47272400
ASH068_Philistine


19.97005508
ASH067


27.53786847
ASH029


28.59305160
ASH135


31.13877807
ASH066


32.28633457
ASH2-3


33.52379603
ASH033


36.86681299
ASH034


40.69748518
ASH008


43.16942089
ASH087

Jovialis
11-06-20, 18:36
Jovialis: Great work. Do Feldman et al 2019 provide any discussion as to why ASH068 being closer distance wise to you and a little more so to me then big break till ASH067, 19.97 for me and 23.33 for you. Seems like the 10 samples follow a similar distribution pattern for you and me. Pattern looks similar for KingJohn as well.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


9.47272400
ASH068_Philistine


19.97005508
ASH067


27.53786847
ASH029


28.59305160
ASH135


31.13877807
ASH066


32.28633457
ASH2-3


33.52379603
ASH033


36.86681299
ASH034


40.69748518
ASH008


43.16942089
ASH087




The Philistines were part of the Sea Peoples migration, who in part facilitated the Bronze Age Collapse, and brought upon what was known as the Greek Dark Ages. They were most likely from Crete, as indicated by the Bible (referred to as Caphtor), and verified by ancient DNA, from the Ashkelon cemetery. Which is why ASH068 is similar to the Myceaneans, he was Greek-like. The Philistines invaded the Levant, and mixed with the local population. ASH067 is a mixed individual, between the original Philistines, and the local Levantines. While the others, are similar to the local Levantine population.

Jovialis
11-06-20, 18:51
The Philistines were part of the Sea Peoples migration, who in part facilitated the Bronze Age Collapse, and brought upon what was known as the Greek Dark Ages. They were most likely from Crete, as indicated by the Bible (referred to as Caphtor), and verified by ancient DNA, from the Ashkelon cemetery. Which is why ASH068 is similar to the Myceaneans, he was Greek-like. The Philistines invaded the Levant, and mixed with the local population. ASH067 is a mixed individual, between the original Philistines, and the local Levantines. While the others, are similar to the local Levantine population.

Here the PCA illustrates this:

https://i.imgur.com/vM0gMsB.png

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 19:03
The Philistines were part of the Sea Peoples migration, who in part facilitated the Bronze Age Collapse, and brought upon what was known as the Greek Dark Ages. They were most likely from Crete, as indicated by the Bible (referred to as Caphtor), and verified by ancient DNA, from the Ashkelon cemetery. Which is why ASH068 is similar to the Myceaneans, he was Greek-like. The Philistines invaded the Levant, and mixed with the local population. ASH067 is a mixed individual, between the original Philistines, and the local Levantines. While the others, are similar to the local Levantine population.

Ok, well done. So ASH068 is more Mycenaean like which explains the closer distance to both of us. Makes sense given the results from the Lazaridis et al 2017 samples and K7 distances.

Thanks again with the explanation.

Palermo Trapani
11-06-20, 20:26
Jovialis: Your explanation in post #5 was spot on. I just took the Dodecad 7B coordinates for the Antonio et al 2019 Roman samples, the Lazararidis et al 2017 Ancient Greek samples and the Feldman et al 2019 ancient Philistine samples. I pust ASH068 as the target and BINGO, very close to the Mycenaeans and even closer to ancient Romans. ASH067 distance doesn't show up till 25.13



Distance to:
ASH068_Philistine


5.29715018
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese


5.55584377
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


5.80381771
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese


7.58544659
R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi


8.82954132
R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


8.90178072
R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


9.40553029
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete


9.54626105
R120_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


9.59756740
R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio


9.73458782
R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria


9.87794513
R1283_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria


10.00432906
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata


10.07782715
R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


10.10197505
R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia


10.19823514
R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


10.39451779
R1285_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria


10.60361731
R18_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado


10.65546808
I2937_Greece_Neolithic_Diros_Alepotrypa_Cave


10.68852188
R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto


10.80169431
R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


10.80923679
R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche


10.82677237
R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


10.82863796
I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_C rete


11.00978656
R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


11.03971920
R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia





Target: ASH068_Philistine
Distance: 0.7413% / 0.74126690 | ADC: 0.25x




53.6
I9010_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese





23.6
I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Pel oponnese





15.0
I9123_Bronze_Age_Armenoi_Crete





4.0
R1287_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria





2.6
I9041_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Galatas_Apatheia_Pelopo nnese





1.2
TIT015

Salento
11-06-20, 21:36
There ought to be more Sea People than just the Cretans.

if the Sea People were Cretans,
ASH068 is closer to the Mycenaeans,
but the Ancient Cretans were genetically Minoans, I think ...

... unless the Mycenaeans were already in Crete by that time, ...

https://i.imgur.com/fY9d8Hj.jpg

bigsnake49
11-06-20, 22:04
The Minoan civilization was over by the the time of the Sea People, so was the Mycenean civilization. The sea people are blamed for the downfall of that civilization. Could the Greek tribes coming down from somewhere in the Balkans be the Sea Peoples? Not a disproven theory yet.