PDA

View Full Version : H40 and subclades found in aDNA



StevenRosenberg
27-06-20, 17:35
Hi,

I have a question. According to this site there are samples found with mtDNA Haplogroup H40 within the Bell Beaker population:

H40;found in Portugal, Germany and Poland / found in Bell Beaker Poland and in BA Israel

I found the paper on the BA Israel sample, which is H40a in the paper's supplement Table spread sheet, but I cannot seem to find the Bell Beaker Poland reference.

I did find this in a comment:

Results from Unambiguous Bell Beaker:

BellBeaker from Kromsdorf 4550 ybp = 0% H + 100% ( T1a, K1, I1a1, W5a,U2e, U5a1 )
BellBeaker from Benzingerode-Heimburg 4300/4200 ybp = 0% H + 100% ( T2a,W1, U5a )
BellBeaker from Quedlinburg 4300/4200 ybp = 50% H5/H1 + 50% ( T2e, J1c,U5a, U5b )
BellBeaker from Rothenschirmbach 4300/4200 ybp = 60% H5/H3 + 40% ( K1a2 )
BellBeaker from Alberstedt 4300/4200 ybp = 100% H5/H3 + 0% ( - )


1. The oldest tested Bell Beaker population is Kromsdorf and there is not found any H carrier.
2- H5 is the only H haplogroup shared among all of these Bell Beaker populations where H is found.
3- H5 is found in a 8350 ybp individual from Anatolia.
4- K1a2 is found in a 8350 ybp individual from Anatolia.
5- W1 is found in a 8350 ybp individual from Anatolia.
6- T1a is found in a 9500 ybp individual from Jordan.
7- T2e is found in a 7500 ybp individual from Neolithic Hungary.
8- J1c is found in a 9900 ybp individual from Neolithic Iran.
9- H3 is found in a 7300 ybp individual from Neolithic Portugal.


But there is no references to H40.

There is a mention for H40 with respect to Iron Gates Mesolithic culture:

A few R1b individuals from the Iron gates Mesolithic culture also possessed less typical mtDNA like K1, K1a, H13 and H40.

But not for Bell Beaker. Maybe someone has a pointer for where this is referenced or maybe the reference is mistaken?

While I am at it, maybe I can ask my second question which is that I am trying to understand the distance between the H40b mtDNA Haplogroup and the H40a mtDNA Haplogroup from the 4,000 year old individual Bronze Age Israel sample.

I see that the mt dna tree giving Haplogroup H subclades shows the mutations for H40a as 5752.1A, H40b as G7444A and T7678C, while H40 has T7621C.


The example accessions are:


H40a - FJ985851 - FJ788098
H40b - JQ702933 - JQ702924
H40 - JQ704876


As I understand the molecular clock is almost 8,000 years, but is highly inaccurate for dating the differences between say the two sibling Haplogroups.

I assume one could say the distance between H40a and H40b then is 3 mutations.


Could someone clarify what the best way would be to quantify the distance between these two Haplogroups H40a and H40b via time or otherwise?


Thank you for your help.


With Best Regards.

Steven Rosenberg.

Maciamo
28-06-20, 15:57
The H40 sample from Bell Beaker Poland is from Juras et al 2020 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ajpa.24057).

There is no reliable way to measure the number of generations separating two individuals using mtDNA. Some mtDNA clades have remained unchanged for thousands of years.