PDA

View Full Version : Pre-roman mtdna umbria



kingjohn
02-07-20, 08:58
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67445-0


Abstract
Umbria is located in Central Italy and took the name from its ancient inhabitants, the Umbri, whose origins are still debated. Here, we investigated the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation of 545 present-day Umbrians (with 198 entire mitogenomes) and 28 pre-Roman individuals (obtaining 19 ancient mtDNAs) excavated from the necropolis of Plestia. We found a rather homogeneous distribution of western Eurasian lineages across the region, with few notable exceptions. Contemporary inhabitants of the eastern part, delimited by the Tiber River and the Apennine Mountains, manifest a peculiar mitochondrial proximity to central-eastern Europeans, mainly due to haplogroups U4 and U5a, and an overrepresentation of J (30%) similar to the pre-Roman remains, also excavated in East Umbria. Local genetic continuities are further attested to by six terminal branches (H1e1, J1c3, J2b1, U2e2a, U8b1b1 and K1a4a) shared between ancient and modern mitogenomes. Eventually, we identified multiple inputs from various population sources that likely shaped the mitochondrial gene pool of ancient Umbri over time, since early Neolithic, including gene flows with central-eastern Europe. This diachronic mtDNA portrait of Umbria fits well with the genome-wide population structure identified on the entire peninsula and with historical sources that list the Umbri among the most ancient Italic populations.

Angela
02-07-20, 14:56
I think this is the guts of it, yes?

"A wide range of haplotypes, mostly belonging to western Eurasian haplogroups (97%), testify for the high mtDNA diversity in Umbria. The incidence of these lineages across the region is quite homogeneous with the notable exception of haplogroup K, reaching the highest frequency (17%) in South Umbria, and haplogroup J, which encompasses 30% of current inhabitants of the eastern area. In the western Eurasian PCA plot, the latter sub-region is pushed close to populations from central-eastern Europe by haplogroups U4 and U5a that show high frequencies in those areas.Then, we extended our analyses to complete mitogenomes (191 sequenced for the first time), randomly selecting the targeted samples to avoid phylogenetic biases and to maintain the population-wide characteristics of our dataset. This higher level of resolution allowed us to refine the haplogroup affiliation in more than 70% of the samples and to make a diachronic comparison with 19 ancient mitogenomes from Umbri Plestini. These pre-Roman samples were classified into the same haplogroups identified in contemporary inhabitants. Moreover, the six terminal branches (H1e1, J1c3, J2b1, U2e2a, U8b1b1 and K1a4a) shared between ancient and modern mitogenomes suggest a genetic continuity in the region during the Holocene. These specific lineages were also identified in a wide range of available ancient samples outside the region, including Neolithic Mediterranean remains as well as Yamnaya, Bell Beaker and more recent samples from central-eastern Europe. These variegated connections are summarized by the lineage geographic/temporal patterns and are specifically shown by the J1c3g ancient mtDNA tree dated between the Late Neolithic and the Early Bronze Age."

Don't see all those exotic mtDna lineages from all those impregnated slave girls from non-European areas. If they were impregnated and their children weren't killed, they had mtDna signatures remarkably similar to those of the locals.

All in all, it seems like continuity to me. Nice to see my mtDna show up. There's a chart which shows where they've found ancient samples. I wonder if it's Urnfield in origin?

The other interesting thing to me is how attached Italians have been until recent times to their own spot of land, partly accounting for the variation. The Tiber dividing western from eastern Umbria has created enough of a barrier that the eastern Umbrians have a somewhat different mtDna pattern, retaining more of the "U" lineages, and also having a slightly different "language". I think that may also be partly explained by Umbria's location. It is landlocked, with the southern region bordering Lazio and the east bordering southern Toscana, leading to some admixture of lineages I'm sure. The east is somewhat isolated, being bordered by the Marche and getting no admixture from the sea, and separated even from the Marche by the Central Apennines.



There's some correlation with the situation with the Etruscans. The ancient Etruscans also had a lot of mtDna U, placing their mtDna signature closest to that of current southern Germans. That wasn't enough for the ideologues. Despite all the archaeological evidence, they still insisted that they came from Anatolia in the first millennium B.C.

Palermo Trapani
02-07-20, 14:58
KingJohn: Thanks for linking this paper. In 2 related threads, Sicilians Pre Greek and Italian Population Structure Ancient and Modern, I have suggested that as we get more Data from 1)Mesolithic, 2) Neolithic to 3) Bronze/Iron Age, a similar Admixture Graph to what Antonio et al 2019 Figure 2(B) documented and plot similar to Figure 2-A would emerge. This paper fills in the period coinciding with the Iron Age Republican Rome period in Antonio et al 2019 with Ancient Umbrian Samples. The only thing I wish the paper had was more ancient samples from the other sub regions within Umbria that they defined. Nevertheless, the ancient Umbrians in terms of mtdna distributions don't differ from the modern ones in terms of which haplogroups and the distributions seem very similar.

Very interesting and timely paper following some of the other studies that have recently come out related to ancient Rome (Antonio et al 2019) and ancient Sicily and Sardinia (Fernandes et al 2020).

Thanks again, PT.

Palermo Trapani
02-07-20, 15:05
Angela: First off, I agree with your post 2. I got the same impression and suggested as much in my post that data from ancient to modern Umbria indicates genetic continuity. Second, I have a question that maybe you or Jovialis can answer. I went through the supplements and looked at the Haplogroups in the excel file to see if my mtdna showed up. Per NAT GENO, I am H2a, beyond that I know nothing else. I think if I counted correctly (I did not do a pivot table) but 80 of the 545 mtdna's (191 selected from the 545 were used in the analysis) were H2a. Is H2a common throughout Italy or does it show up in different regions more than others etc? At some point I am going to have to bite the bullit and do deep Y and Mtdna analysis, something like Ftdna Big Y that Duarte suggested to me to do. I did check Maciamo's article from December 2017 and it indicates H is the most common in Italy, as most of Europe, but no break down into H1, H2, H3, etc, and the June 2020 article indicates H2a in Neolithic Italy, which is quite interesting, so likely Neolithic Sicily as well would be my guess.

Thanks in advance for any you or Jovialis might have.

Maciamo
02-07-20, 15:22
The ancient Umbrian samples stand out by their low percentage of haplogroup H (27%). The average in Italy today is 40% (39% in Umbria according to the paper). No modern population anywhere has 30% of haplogroup J. The highest is Saudi Arabia with 19% (but mostly clades not found in Europe like J1b, J1d and J2a2). In Europe the highest is 15% in Wales. Italy is at 8%.

Also surprising is the complete absence of hg T (which stands at 11.5% in modern Italy) and U5. That might be due to the small sample size.

https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41598-020-67445-0/MediaObjects/41598_2020_67445_Fig1_HTML.png

The supplementary file 2 has a list of all the mtDNA clades for modern and ancient Umbrians. Here are the ancient ones:

N1a1a1b
R
HV
H (x3)
H1e1a
H5'36
J (x2)
J1c3e
J1c3e2
J1c3g
J2b1
U2e2a
U4
U8b1b1
K1a4a1
X2+225

Haplogroups like H1e, J1c3, J2b1, K1a4a1, U4 and X2 were all found in Neolithic and Bronze Age Europe, so they do not inform us much about their origin.

More interesting is U2e2, which was found in the Corded Ware, Unetice and Andronovo cultures, EBA Alsace, and among the Sakas (Iron Age Central Asia) and Sarmatians (Iron Age Russia/Ukraine). That lineage is more specifically Indo-European.

Palermo Trapani
02-07-20, 15:37
Maciamo: One thought, the modern Umbrians are from the entire Region, whereas the Ancients are only from the East Umbria sub-region. So if there were more ancient Umbrian samples from those other 5 regions, could those other haplogroups be present in the other areas and over time what we see in Modern Umbria is the sort of blending of all the 6 sub-regions which results in the statistical distribution we see today in Umbria.

Angela
02-07-20, 15:45
https://i.imgur.com/jWUUyvh.png

https://i.imgur.com/sHy7QND.png

Pax Augusta
02-07-20, 17:33
In the conclusions of this study I find all the typical flaws of a specific Italian school that works on pre-established theses. It is excellent that they have analyzed the mtDNA of the ancient Umbrians but mtDNa alone is too little to draw conclusions. We also need to see the Y-DNA and autosomal DNA of these ancient Umbrians.





There's some correlation with the situation with the Etruscans. The ancient Etruscans also had a lot of mtDna U, placing their mtDna signature closest to that of current southern Germans. That wasn't enough for the ideologues. Despite all the archaeological evidence, they still insisted that they came from Anatolia in the first millennium B.C.


Because Italian genetics is based on a baronial system, and new geneticists cannot question the conclusions of their masters (even if they are wrong). In fact, many Italian archaeologists, even if they do not make public statements, have decided to ignore these Italian studies, precisely because some geneticists insist on supporting discredited hypotheses on the Etruscans.

Pax Augusta
02-07-20, 17:59
Haplogroups like H1e, J1c3, J2b1, K1a4a1, U4 and X2 were all found in Neolithic and Bronze Age Europe, so they do not inform us much about their origin..


Indeed, Maciamo.





Maciamo: One thought, the modern Umbrians are from the entire Region, whereas the Ancients are only from the East Umbria sub-region. So if there were more ancient Umbrian samples from those other 5 regions, could those other haplogroups be present in the other areas and over time what we see in Modern Umbria is the sort of blending of all the 6 sub-regions which results in the statistical distribution we see today in Umbria.


Exactly. Not all of modern Umbria was the territory of the ancient Umbrians. This is why these papers by Italian geneticists are even more disappointing, because they do not even know the basics of the ancient history of their own country.


Following the traditional borders, Umbria would have been so divided. But it is really impossible that there was no internal gene flow in Umbria, we are talking about a very small region made up of two provinces, just as it is quite impossible that there was no gene flow in the last centuries in Umbria from Lazio and Marche, since at a certain point all three were part of the Papal State and there were no borders between them. So to make a comparison between the ancient Umbrians, when you still have only a few mtDNA and not even autosomal DNA and Y-DNA of the Ancient Umbrians, is really useless, even if it is very common comparison in a specific Italian school of geneticists. It is the basic idea to make a comparison between pre-Roman populations and modern population that is silly, since intense migratory movements started immediately from Roman times.

https://i.imgur.com/kEKx8Mt.jpg

Salento
02-07-20, 19:04
Ancient and Modern mtDNA
... those in black/gray are Ancient:


https://i.imgur.com/95PsEbw.png


my mtDNA is among Modern Umbria:


https://i.imgur.com/AwNc7hw.jpg

kingjohn
02-07-20, 19:15
Ancient and Modern mtDNA
... those in black/grey are Ancient:


https://i.imgur.com/95PsEbw.png


my mtDNA is among the Modern Umbria:


https://i.imgur.com/AwNc7hw.jpg



cool for you :cool-v:
mine to was also found in the modern samples
( intrestingly in the center area of modern umbria )
the etruscan area in ancient time ..... :thinking:
but could have arrived to umbria in recent time from lazio or marche who knows :thinking:

Pax Augusta
02-07-20, 19:42
This is the only part of the paper that I think is really valuable. The mtDNA haplogroups of 19 ancient Umbrians. The rest is just typical useless speculation on modern samples of this group of geneticists.



H
N1a1a1
H1and1a
X2+225
J2b1
K1a4a1
J1c3and2
J1c3g
J1c3e
H5'36
J
JT
HV
R
H
H
U2e2a
U4
U8b1b1

kingjohn
02-07-20, 19:49
This is the only part of the paper that I think is really valuable. The mtDNA haplogroups of 19 ancient Umbrians. The rest is just speculation that this group of geneticists has been used to for years.




H
N1a1a1
H1and1a
X2+225
J2b1
K1a4a1
J1c3and2
J1c3g
J1c3e
H5'36
J
JT
HV
R
H
H
U2e2a
U4
U8b1b1

you are correct :good_job:

from the pdf :

Archaeological and historical data suggest that during the Early Iron Age (ninth/eighth centuries BCE, BeforeCommon Era), Umbrians were among the frst communities with strong and well-defned cultural identities in Central Italy, together with Etruscans (to the west), Picentes (to the east) and Samnites (to the south). They originally occupied the eastern part of the today’s Umbria region, placed on the left bank of the Tiber River,soon extending their territories in western Umbria and Tuscany. Around the sixth century BCE, the Etruscans,who had already begun to infuence the Umbrian culture, took control over the western territories and the Tiber became the natural border between Umbrians and Etruscans 39. The degree of interaction between these ancient populations is still unclear.

what is important are the mtdna from ancient
from the 19 Iron Age Umbri Plestini, who were buried in Plestinam Paludem
angela mtdna u2 :good_job:you are descendents from italic tribes :smile:

Duarte
02-07-20, 19:56
Ancient and Modern mtDNA
... those in black/gray are Ancient:


https://i.imgur.com/95PsEbw.png


my mtDNA is among Modern Umbria:


https://i.imgur.com/AwNc7hw.jpg

Hi dear friend @Salento. Somehow the archaic form of my mtDNA is there also...It's a losted outlier , lol. Cheers.:laughing:

https://i.imgur.com/iQYKWm4.jpg

Pax Augusta
02-07-20, 19:58
you are correct
The degree of interaction between these ancient populations is still unclear.




I would say it is still unclear to these geneticists, who have no real knowledge of ancient history. More important is the objective scientific data that these studies provide, in particular ancient DNA, than the conclusions.

Salento
02-07-20, 20:59
@Duarte ... that’s mtDNA, ... I thought you are B2h.... :)

NatGeo say:

Branch: R

Age: About 55,000 Years Ago
Location of Origin: West Asia

After several thousand years in the Near East, individuals belonging to a new group called haplogroup R began to move out and explore the surrounding areas. Some moved south, migrating back into northern Africa. Others went west across Anatolia (present-day Turkey) and north across the Caucasus Mountains of Georgia and southern Russia. Still others headed east into the Middle East, and on to Central Asia. All of these individuals had one thing in common: they shared a female ancestor from the N clan, a recent descendant of the migration out of Africa.

The story of haplogroup R is complicated, however, because these individuals can be found almost everywhere, and because their origin is quite ancient. In fact, the ancestor of haplogroup R lived relatively soon after humans moved out of Africa during the second wave, and her descendants undertook many of the same migrations as her own group, N.

Because the two groups lived side by side for thousands of years, it is likely that the migrations radiating out from the Near East comprised individuals from both of these groups. They simply moved together, bringing their N and R lineages to the same places around the same times. The tapestry of genetic lines became quickly entangled, and geneticists are currently working to unravel the different stories of haplogroups N and R, since they are found in many of the same far-reaching places.

Point of Interest
Descendants of this line dominate the European maternal landscape, making up 75 to 95 percent of the lineages there.

Duarte
02-07-20, 21:09
@Duarte ... that’s mtDNA, ... I thought you are B2h.... :)

No dear friend. Without the “h”. My deepest MtDNA according FTDNA Full Senquence is only B2 and according James Lick, uploaded the FASTA of FTDNA, is “R”. Both TMRCA > 20,000. Next the phylotree:

https://i.imgur.com/lx2E1op.png

James Lick:


Good morning dear friends @Salento and @Carlos

Thank you for referring to me and to my dear native cousins.

In fact, my deep downstream mtDNA is very old and dates back to the paleolithic in Siberia, Beringia or the first Americans who arrived in North America. According to Yfull my mtDNA was formed> 20000 ybp, TMRCA> 20000 ybp. This means that I have a very old ancestral grandma who seems someone like Clovis, Kennwick, or, who knows, Malta or Ust-Ishim. Uploading the raw data from the FTDNA's .FASTA file to James Lick mtHaplogroup analysis points to a good match with mtHaplogroup R and an imperfect match with other Haplogroups. Haplogroup R was also formed> 20000 ybp, TMRCA> 20000 ybp. I think this is very cool.

I have an ancient grandma among the Native Americans or, at worst, among the same ancestral peoples that originated Native Americans. This is very cool.

Cheers ;)

https://i.imgur.com/lx2E1op.png

https://i.imgur.com/EtXTRjo.png

Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:
R(T16189C)
Defining Markers for haplogroup R(T16189C):
HVR2: 73G 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 4769G 7028T 8860G 11719A 14766T 15326G
HVR1: 16189C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup R(T16189C) (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 499A 827G 3547G 3866C 4820A 4977C 6473T 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 9950C 11177T 13590A 14470C 15535T (16182C) (16183C) 16217C 16241G (16519C)
Good Match! Your results also had extra markers for this haplogroup:
Matches(12): 73G 263G 750G 1438G 2706G 4769G 7028T 8860G 11719A 14766T 15326G 16189C
Extras(26): 103A 152C (315.1C) 499A 827G 3547G 3866C 4820A 4977C 6473T 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 9950C 11177T 13590A 14470C 15535T (16182C) (16183C) 16217C 16241G (16519C)

B2
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(9): 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2b(T152C)
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2b(T152C):
HVR2: 73G 152C 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 6755A 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2b(T152C) (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 6755A ⇨ B2b ⇨ 152C ⇨ B2b(T152C) ⇨ 103A (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(24): 73G 152C 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 6755G 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A
Extras(14): 103A (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2(C16278T)
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2(C16278T):
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C 16278T
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2(C16278T) (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 16278T ⇨ B2(C16278T) ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A 16278C
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2r
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2r:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 5899- 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2r (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 5899- ⇨ B2r ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 5899C 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2y
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2y:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C 16261T
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2y (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 16261T ⇨ B2y ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A 16261C
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2i
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2i:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6272G 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2i (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 6272G ⇨ B2i ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 6272A 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2q
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2q:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4047C 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2q (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 4047C ⇨ B2q ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 4047T 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2l
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2l:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C 16422C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2l (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 16422C ⇨ B2l ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A 16422T
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2b
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2b:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 6755A 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2b (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 6755A ⇨ B2b ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 6755G 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2c
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2c:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 7241G 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2c (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 7241G ⇨ B2c ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 7241A 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

B2o
Defining Markers for haplogroup B2o:
HVR2: 73G 263G 499A
CR: 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T
HVR1: 16092C 16189C 16217C
Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup B2o (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 16189C ⇨ R(T16189C) ⇨ 8281- 8282- 8283- 8284- 8285- 8286- 8287- 8288- 8289- ⇨ B4'5 ⇨ 16217C ⇨ B4 ⇨ 827G 15535T ⇨ B4b'd'e'j ⇨ 499A 4820A 13590A ⇨ B4b ⇨ 3547G 4977C 6473T 9950C 11177T ⇨ B2 ⇨ 16092C ⇨ B2o ⇨ 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)
Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(23): 73G 263G 499A 750G 827G 1438G 2706G 3547G 4769G 4820A 4977C 6473T 7028T 8860G 9950C 11177T 11719A 13590A 14766T 15326G 15535T 16189C 16217C
Mismatches(10): 8281C 8282C 8283C 8284C 8285C 8286T 8287C 8288T 8289A 16092T
Extras(15): 103A 152C (315.1C) 3866C 8269- 8270- 8273- 8274- 8275- 8276- 8277- 8278- 8279- 8638G 14470C (16182C) (16183C) 16241G (16519C)

Salento
02-07-20, 21:21
@Duarte ... I put the h because you said so: “B2h1b2a”
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39279-German-surprised-by-her-Native-American-ancestry?p=586459&viewfull=1#post586459

Duarte
02-07-20, 21:28
@Duarte ... I put the h because you said so: “B2h1b2a”
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39279-German-surprised-by-her-Native-American-ancestry?p=586459&viewfull=1#post586459

This is an old post. Since then YFull's mtDNA phylotree has changed a lot.:good_job:

Angela
02-07-20, 21:46
The ancient Umbrian samples stand out by their low percentage of haplogroup H (27%). The average in Italy today is 40% (39% in Umbria according to the paper). No modern population anywhere has 30% of haplogroup J. The highest is Saudi Arabia with 19% (but mostly clades not found in Europe like J1b, J1d and J2a2). In Europe the highest is 15% in Wales. Italy is at 8%.

Also surprising is the complete absence of hg T (which stands at 11.5% in modern Italy) and U5. That might be due to the small sample size.

https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41598-020-67445-0/MediaObjects/41598_2020_67445_Fig1_HTML.png

The supplementary file 2 has a list of all the mtDNA clades for modern and ancient Umbrians. Here are the ancient ones:

N1a1a1b
R
HV
H (x3)
H1e1a
H5'36
J (x2)
J1c3e
J1c3e2
J1c3g
J2b1
U2e2a
U4
U8b1b1
K1a4a1
X2+225

Haplogroups like H1e, J1c3, J2b1, K1a4a1, U4 and X2 were all found in Neolithic and Bronze Age Europe, so they do not inform us much about their origin.

More interesting is U2e2, which was found in the Corded Ware, Unetice and Andronovo cultures, EBA Alsace, and among the Sakas (Iron Age Central Asia) and Sarmatians (Iron Age Russia/Ukraine). That lineage is more specifically Indo-European.

I carry the mtDna U2e2a which they found in the ancient sample, with one additional mutation. My closet match is in Switzerland. Looking at the graphic where they show the ancient and modern samples, I wonder if it could be Urnfield? I'm thinking of those samples down along the eastern Spanish coast and southern France too.

Angela
02-07-20, 21:55
you are correct :good_job:

from the pdf :

Archaeological and historical data suggest that during the Early Iron Age (ninth/eighth centuries BCE, BeforeCommon Era), Umbrians were among the frst communities with strong and well-defned cultural identities in Central Italy, together with Etruscans (to the west), Picentes (to the east) and Samnites (to the south). They originally occupied the eastern part of the today’s Umbria region, placed on the left bank of the Tiber River,soon extending their territories in western Umbria and Tuscany. Around the sixth century BCE, the Etruscans,who had already begun to infuence the Umbrian culture, took control over the western territories and the Tiber became the natural border between Umbrians and Etruscans 39. The degree of interaction between these ancient populations is still unclear.

what is important are the mtdna from ancient
from the 19 Iron Age Umbri Plestini, who were buried in Plestinam Paludem
angela mtdna u2 :good_job:you are descendents from italic tribes :smile:

Well, in terms of uniparentals it would indeed seem so. Maternally, my mtDna is U2e2a, and my father carried R1b U-152, so it's a double hit. :)

Pax Augusta
02-07-20, 22:01
I carry the mtDna U2e2a which they found in the ancient sample, with one additional mutation. My closet match is in Switzerland. Looking at the graphic where they show the ancient and modern samples, I wonder if it could be Urnfield? I'm thinking of those samples down along the eastern Spanish coast and southern France too.


Yes, most likely Urnfield.

Gabriele Pashaj
02-07-20, 23:00
Ancient and Modern mtDNA
... those in black/gray are Ancient:


https://i.imgur.com/95PsEbw.png


my mtDNA is among Modern Umbria:


https://i.imgur.com/AwNc7hw.jpg



I noticed that are also present my mtdna (H15) and my father’s one (U4c1)

kingjohn
02-07-20, 23:11
I noticed that are also present my mtdna (H15) and my father’s one (U4c1)
Your mtdna h15 was found in ancient apulian remains
I will try to look for this paper tomarow (hope to find it
) :thinking:


P.s
Ok found it:smile:
This link:

https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/22810/2/PhD_Dissertation_Emery_Final.pdf

Go to page 114 or page 132
These are roman age vagnari remains dated to 100-400 Ad
Individual LRV156 belong to mtdna H15a

Winston
07-09-20, 14:59
Hi all. Italian here, new to the forum. One of my paternal great-grandparents was from Umbria, actually my Y-DNA comes from there, so as much as I appreciate this article I'm a bit disappointed it didn't delve deeper into autosomal DNA.

Do you know if there are any new papers coming out in the next months concerning Italian ancient DNA samples?

kingjohn
09-09-20, 13:27
Not that i know of 🤔
But i do promise to post them
If there would be anything 😉