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Maciamo
27-01-21, 20:55
Thanks to Regio X for the following.

Richard Stockton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stockton_(Continental_Congressman)) (1730-1781),was an American lawyer, jurist, legislator, and a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.qZdU08dPiEVBMp4x0Gl9ygAAAA&pid=Api

His son, Robert F. Stockton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Stockton) (1795-1866) was a United States Navy commodore, notable in the capture of California during the Mexican–American War. He was a naval innovator and an early advocate for a propeller-driven, steam-powered navy.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/RFStockton.jpg

They descend from Richard Stockton (1665-1709) from Princeton, NJ, whose lineage was determined to be G2a-L497 > Z1816 > FGC809 > Z39863 by the Stockton Surname DNA Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/stockton/default.aspx?section=yresults).

Regio X
31-01-21, 02:28
The Bure from medieval northern Sweden would have belonged to haplogroup G-Z30729, under G-CTS4803 (a branch of G-L497): https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bure%C3%A4tten#Gentester

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bure%C3%A4tten#Sl%C3%A4kttavla_i_urval
(https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bure%C3%A4tten#Sl%C3%A4kttavla_i_urval)http://buredna.sjolunds.se/
(http://buredna.sjolunds.se/)https://www.facebook.com/groups/bure.forskning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bure_kinship
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bure-dna/
http://buredna.sjolunds.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Burelinjer-161221.png
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z30729

Maciamo
03-02-21, 17:15
Between Richard Stockton (October 1, 1730 - February 28, 1781) and Robert F. Stockton (August 20, 1795 - October 7, 1866) there seem to be two generations. The relationship cannot be father-son but probably grandfather-grandson?

Sorry about that. You are right. Robert's father was also named Richard Stockton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stockton_(U.S._senator)) (1764-1828), hence the confusion.

Regio X
03-02-21, 19:23
Between Richard Stockton (October 1, 1730 - February 28, 1781) and Robert F. Stockton (August 20, 1795 - October 7, 1866) there seem to be two generations. The relationship cannot be father-son but probably grandfather-grandson?Indeed. The mistake seems to be in the Wikipedia article regarding Richard Stockton (b. 1730), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stockton_(Continental_Congressman)#Family , which mentions Robert Field Stockton as a son, while he was actually a grandson.

Robert Field Stockton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Stockton
The father: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stockton_(U.S._senator)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stockton_(Continental_Congressman)#Family) The grandfather (signer of the Declaration of Independence): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stockton_(Continental_Congressman)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stockton_(Continental_Congressman)#Family)

Regio X
03-02-21, 19:38
It appears that Alphonse Gabriel Capone was also from the G2a haplogroup. https://www.geni.com/projects/G-P303-Y-DNA/9839The only "source" I know for this is a supposed Capone under G-L13 in the G-U1 Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/G-U1?iframe=yresults). He informs the following in the MDKA field: "Capone? Castellamare di Stabia, Naples, Italy". I don't know if Al Capone was G-L13, but this info doesn't seem enough for evidencing it. Do you know about another source by any chance?

One that would supposedly belong to G-Z6552 is Lionel Messi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi), and someone mentioned Wilfried Dietrich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfried_Dietrich)*, but I'm afraid there is not enough evidence either.
*Shane Hamman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Hamman), American Olympic weightlifting and powerlifter, does belong to G-M201 (more specifically, to G-Z31842 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z31842/), under G-Z16775 and G-L497). Gold in the Pan American Games of 1999 and 1st in USPF National Powerlifting Championships of 1993, 1995 and 1996.

Regio X
04-02-21, 14:19
I read that Knight and Capone practically have their origins in the same area south of Naples. If Knight is on Capone's paternal line, then he could be a grandson probably born in America who changed his last name (maybe... not to have problems because of the name of one of the greatest gangsters of all time :) ? I don't see the group discussions. But those enrolled in the group can ask and find information. It would be interesting.He puts a question mark after "Capone", as if he wasn't sure.
Possibly the info at Geni is based on G-U1 Project's. Who knows! That member is currently labeled by FTDNA as G-P303, which perhaps explains why Geni categorized Al Capone this way too (?).

Rusty
15-02-21, 21:14
The Byrd family of Virginia in the USA belonged to haplogroup G2a. The Byrd DNA Project at FTDNA shows the family in Haplogroup G - Lineage 1 along with pedigrees of the 2 relatives tested. William Byrd II is famous among students of colonial America for his 'History if the Dividing Line' describing his role in surveying the boundary between North Carolina and Virginia and for his secret personal diary. Prominent 20th century descendants of the family include explorer Richard Evelyn Byrd and his brother, U.S. Senator Harry Byrd.

Regio X
20-02-21, 15:58
The only "source" I know for this is a supposed Capone under G-L13 in the G-U1 Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/G-U1?iframe=yresults). He informs the following in the MDKA field: "Capone? Castellamare di Stabia, Naples, Italy". I don't know if Al Capone was G-L13, but this info doesn't seem enough for evidencing it. Do you know about another source by any chance?

One that would supposedly belong to G-Z6552 is Lionel Messi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi), and someone mentioned Wilfried Dietrich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfried_Dietrich)*, but I'm afraid there is not enough evidence either.
*Shane Hamman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Hamman), American Olympic weightlifting and powerlifter, does belong to G-M201 (more specifically, to G-Z31842 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z31842/), under G-Z16775 and G-L497). Gold in the Pan American Games of 1999 and 1st in USPF National Powerlifting Championships of 1993, 1995 and 1996.Apparently the source for Dietrich was ysearch, again. He and some others are mentioned in the following thread:
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,1693.0.html

kingjohn
20-02-21, 18:39
king richard iii :cool-v:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England#Ancestry

belong to y haplogroup G-P287


source:https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631

Angela
20-02-21, 20:02
Meanwhile, two of the Beauforts, descended from John of Gaunt of a prior generation,have turned out to have two versions of R1b.

Anyone who has read about Richard's mother Cecily would not have a difficult time believing her capable of almost anything, but the two modern Beauforts carry 2 yDNAs, so the NPE (NPEs) could have happened anywhere along the line.

kingjohn
20-02-21, 20:19
Meanwhile, two of the Beauforts, descended from John of Gaunt of a prior generation,have turned out to have two versions of R1b.

Anyone who has read about Richard's mother Cecily would not have a difficult time believing her capable of almost anything, but the two modern Beauforts carry 2 yDNAs, so the NPE (NPEs) could have happened anywhere along the line.


yes
she wasn't a shy woman for sure :rolleyes2:

Regio X
20-02-21, 22:05
Indeed. Perhaps it could be clarified by testing descendants in male line of Henry IV of England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_IV_of_England#Marriages_and_issue)? As possibly some French Langlée (https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-John-Clarence/6000000002106027906), who would have claimed descent* from John of Clarence - Bastard of Clarence -, son (natural, but illegitimate) of Thomas of Lancaster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_of_Lancaster,_1st_Duke_of_Clarence#Marriage ). Or if some other son of Edward III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_III_of_England#Sons) of England has some known living descendant in male line...

ED.:
*If true and if patrilineal...

Angela
20-02-21, 22:37
Indeed. Perhaps it could be clarified by testing descendants in male line of Henry IV of England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_IV_of_England#Marriages_and_issue)? As possibly some French Langlée (https://www.geni.com/people/Sir-John-Clarence/6000000002106027906), who would have claimed descent from John of Clarence - Bastard of Clarence -, son (natural, but illegitimate) of Thomas of Lancaster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_of_Lancaster,_1st_Duke_of_Clarence#Marriage ). Or if some other son of Edward III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_III_of_England#Sons) of England has some known living descendant in male line...

O.T. Amazing how unstereotypically "English" these Plantagnets look: Edward III, John of Gaunt, Henry IV. They all look like cousins of Francois I of France, which I'm sure they were, to some degree. :)

Regio X
20-02-21, 23:26
O.T. Amazing how unstereotypically "English" these Plantagnets look: Edward III, John of Gaunt, Henry IV. They all look like cousins of Francois I of France, which I'm sure they were, to some degree. :)And especially John of Gaunt, I'd say. It did call my attention when I laid my eyes on his portrait. :)

Duarte
21-02-21, 00:21
yes
she wasn't a shy woman for sure :rolleyes2:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631 :thinking::grin:

Angela
21-02-21, 03:06
My apologies: I thought all of the "Beauforts" were R1b of one sort or another.

"Four of the modern relatives were found to belong to Y-haplogroup R1b-U152 (x L2, Z36, Z56, M160, M126 and Z192)13 (https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631#ref-CR13),14 (https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631#ref-CR14) with STR haplotypes being consistent with them comprising a single patrilinear group. One individual (Somerset 3) was found to belong to haplogroup I-M170 (x M253, M223) and therefore could not be a patrilinear relative of the other four within the time span considered, indicating that a false-paternity event had occurred within the last four generations.


There's U-152 popping up again, like with the Hapsburgs, and of course there's that blood stained handkerchief supposedly of Louis XVI? which was G2a of some sort.

If the Royal Family of England really wanted to find out, they could exhume Edward III's remains, I suppose, as he is buried at Westminster Abbey.

Some pictures show him as a blonde, but others don't. His features are certainly not Anglo-Saxon, of that we can be sure.

There is no contemporary painting, but this is the funeral effigy of Edward III:
https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1444500803i/16509667.jpg

His third son was John of Gaunt. The portrait Wiki uses was commissioned after his death, but it says it was modeled on his funeral effigy. Some older portraits show him as brown haired, but there must have been a tradition that he was dark. The nose is definitely his father's.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Johnofgaunt.jpg

His son, King Henry IV
https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/c0217112/800wm/C0217112-Henry_IV,_King_of_England.jpg

There are more contemporaneous illustrations of Henry V, the Warrior King of Shakespeare...the nose is
a bit different, but not a lot. That Plantagenet nose is like the Hapsburg chin; clearly a dominant trait.

http://safransapeh.weebly.com/uploads/8/1/8/1/8181749/7175925_orig.jpg

Even Henry Tudor, Henry VII of England after Richard IIIs death at Bosworth Field still had a version of it, courtesy of his mother Margaret Beaufort, who was his only claim to the crown.

https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/henry-vii-of-england-2.jpg

His death mask makes him look like an ancient Etruscan or Roman.
https://cdn.britannica.com/73/79373-050-7B64BBD3/Death-mask-Henry-VII-of-England-Westminster.jpg

Angela
21-02-21, 18:03
My apologies: I thought all of the "Beauforts" were R1b of one sort or another.

"Four of the modern relatives were found to belong to Y-haplogroup R1b-U152 (x L2, Z36, Z56, M160, M126 and Z192)13 (https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631#ref-CR13),14 (https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631#ref-CR14) with STR haplotypes being consistent with them comprising a single patrilinear group. One individual (Somerset 3) was found to belong to haplogroup I-M170 (x M253, M223) and therefore could not be a patrilinear relative of the other four within the time span considered, indicating that a false-paternity event had occurred within the last four generations.


There's U-152 popping up again, like with the Hapsburgs, and of course there's that blood stained handkerchief supposedly of Louis XVI? which was G2a of some sort.

If the Royal Family of England really wanted to find out, they could exhume Edward III's remains, I suppose, as he is buried at Westminster Abbey.

Some pictures show him as a blonde, but others don't. His features are certainly not Anglo-Saxon, of that we can be sure.

There is no contemporary painting, but this is the funeral effigy of Edward III:
https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1444500803i/16509667.jpg

His third son was John of Gaunt. The portrait Wiki uses was commissioned after his death, but it says it was modeled on his funeral effigy. Some older portraits show him as brown haired, but there must have been a tradition that he was dark. The nose is definitely his father's.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Johnofgaunt.jpg

His son, King Henry IV
https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/c0217112/800wm/C0217112-Henry_IV,_King_of_England.jpg

There are more contemporaneous illustrations of Henry V, the Warrior King of Shakespeare...the nose is
a bit different, but not a lot. That Plantagenet nose is like the Hapsburg chin; clearly a dominant trait.

http://safransapeh.weebly.com/uploads/8/1/8/1/8181749/7175925_orig.jpg

Even Henry Tudor, Henry VII of England after Richard IIIs death at Bosworth Field still had a version of it, courtesy of his mother Margaret Beaufort, who was his only claim to the crown.

https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/henry-vii-of-england-2.jpg

His death mask makes him look like an ancient Etruscan or Roman.
https://cdn.britannica.com/73/79373-050-7B64BBD3/Death-mask-Henry-VII-of-England-Westminster.jpg

Here is the proof: Lady Margaret Beaufort, his mother. Even women weren't spared it.

Poor Margaret; she was treated as a pawn, being married and unmarried by various kings, being sent to her marriage bed at 12 and giving birth to Henry at 13, a birth so difficult, given her age and size according to contemporary accounts that she never gave birth to another child, but she went on to become a king maker. (One is reminded of Cecily Neville Plantagenet.) Poor Margaret, she became almost obsessively religious and lived a virtual nun's existence. Her experiences probably put her off sex for life.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Lady_Margaret_Beaufort_from_NPG.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Margaret_Beaufort