Earliest paleolithic homo sapiens remains from bacho kiro cave bulgaria

kingjohn

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Y-DNA haplogroup
e-fgc7391 500CE
mtDNA haplogroup
h3ap
Pribislav from anthrogenica :
Anlayse the calls
So
y haplogroup : C, F,P :unsure::cool-v:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-Cave-Bulgaria&p=746078&viewfull=1#post746078

CC7-335 (A11201); 44840-42880 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-C-M130 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C/
C level: 27 derived SNPs, 4 ancestral SNPs Negative for all downstream subclades.
BB7-240 (A11199); 44180-42450 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-C-M130 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C/
C level: 20 derived SNPs, 6 ancestral SNPs and 2 mixed calls SNPs Negative for all downstream subclades.
F6-620; 42260-40860 BC*; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-F-Y27277 https://yfull.com/tree/F-Y27277/
AA7-738; 42260-40860 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; F-M89 https://www.yfull.com/tree/F/
CT+, C-, F+ (M3679/PF2656/CTS2220+ G>A (1A)), G-, I-, J-, L-, T-, NO-, K-Y28299-, M-, R1+ (FGC465+ G>A (1A))
BK-1653; 32870-32260 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-P-P226 or pre-R https://www.yfull.com/tree/P-P226/
 
Oh, this paper they're not going to attempt to bury. :)

I think we suspected there would be C and F, yes? Good to have it confirmed though. The P showing up is interesting, if this is correctly done. It's anthrogenica, after all; they want at least P to show up. :)
 
Oh, this paper they're not going to attempt to bury. :)
I think we suspected there would be C and F, yes? Good to have it confirmed though. The P showing up is interesting, if this is correctly done. It's anthrogenica, after all; they want at least P to show up. :)
Yes
The C and F not unexpected
The p is interesting :)
Pribislav up untill now showed
That we can trust his calls anlaysis
I think he knows what he is doing
I don't think he has an agenda... :unsure:
Here is the cool cave
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacho_Kiro_cave


From: Initial Upper Palaeolithic Homo sapiens from Bacho Kiro Cave, Bulgaria
41586_2020_2259_Fig5_ESM.jpg
 
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Pribislav from anthrogenica :
Anlayse the calls
So
y haplogroup : C, F,P :unsure::cool-v:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread...-Cave-Bulgaria&p=746078&viewfull=1#post746078
CC7-335 (A11201); 44840-42880 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-C-M130 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C/
C level: 27 derived SNPs, 4 ancestral SNPs Negative for all downstream subclades.
BB7-240 (A11199); 44180-42450 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-C-M130 https://www.yfull.com/tree/C/
C level: 20 derived SNPs, 6 ancestral SNPs and 2 mixed calls SNPs Negative for all downstream subclades.
F6-620; 42260-40860 BC*; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-F-Y27277 https://yfull.com/tree/F-Y27277/
AA7-738; 42260-40860 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; F-M89 https://www.yfull.com/tree/F/
CT+, C-, F+ (M3679/PF2656/CTS2220+ G>A (1A)), G-, I-, J-, L-, T-, NO-, K-Y28299-, M-, R1+ (FGC465+ G>A (1A))
BK-1653; 32870-32260 BC; Bacho Kiro Cave, Dryanovo; Bulgaria; EUP; pre-P-P226 or pre-R https://www.yfull.com/tree/P-P226/


what are all the orange block ancient samples from in YFull ? ..................all different papers or only what you have commented on ?
 
what are all the orange block ancient samples from in YFull ? ..................all different papers or only what you have commented on ?
Yes
The orange blocks= are ancient samples(y)
I think they are from other dna papers
All this post is from forum molgen
P.s
I guess the yfull links are for branches in yfull
Who are close to the branches of y haplogroup found in the bacho kiro cave:unsure:
The y calls of those ancient done by pribislav
You can use the anthrogenica link ( i personaly don't have acces to anthrogenica but in my work computer i have access)

To be more presice the haplogroups are:
Pre-C-m130
Pre-C-m130
Pre-F-y27277
F-M89
Pre-P-226
 
Also, the pre-P-P226 (or pre-R) sample is about 10,000 years younger than the rest.

true. But I think that if it came from Siberia this sample would be overpacked with Tiunyan ancestry ( Yana without west eurasian). On the contrary this sample shows no more level of east asian than other gravettians samples ( neglegible to nihil ) What conclusion can we draw from that?
 
true. But I think that if it came from Siberia this sample would be overpacked with Tiunyan ancestry ( Yana without west eurasian). On the contrary this sample shows no more level of east asian than other gravettians samples ( neglegible to nihil ) What conclusion can we draw from that?


So basically in the 35-40k ybp time frame there's branches of P in far east of Siberia [EDIT: correction, Yana samples are 31k years old] and a branch of P (closer to ancestor of R) in the Balkans. I don't know what conclusion we can draw from that. Did the most ancestral P originate in the West and very early splits moved to the East? Someone in another forum mentioned BK-1653 lived 2500-3000 years after Yana [EDIT: correction, Yana samples are younger than BK-1653], so did one branch of P move all the way from Siberia to Balkans within a 2500-3000 period?

For now, maybe we can discredit the theory that P-P226, the ancestor of Q and R, came from South East Asia? However still all the most basal branches of P are found among SE Asians (Andamanese, Philippines, Malaysia).
 
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So basically in the 35-40k ybp time frame there's branches of P in far east of Siberia and a branch of P (closer to ancestor of R) in the Balkans. I don't know what conclusion we can draw from that. Did the most ancestral P originate in the West and very early splits moved to the East? Someone in another forum mentioned BK-1653 lived 2500-3000 years after Yana, so did one branch of P move all the way from Siberia to Balkans within a 2500-3000 period?

For now, maybe we can discredit the theory that P-P226, the ancestor of Q and R, came from South East Asia? However still all the most basal branches of P are found among SE Asians (Andamanese, Philippines, Malaysia).

On anthrogenica they mentioned that BK-1653 lived 2500/3000 years before Yana. And Yana has 75% WE
 
On anthrogenica they mentioned that BK-1653 lived 2500/3000 years before Yana. And Yana has 75% WE

Since i understand you have access to anthrogenica:)
Can you share what mtdna types were found in the caves ? ( the usuall mtdna U)

P.s
Thanks the jkhan(y)
it is significant that the pre-p individual
Is 10,000 years younger from the others:unsure:
 
Since i understand you have access to anthrogenica:)
Can you share what mtdna types were found in the caves ? ( the usuall mtdna U)
P.s
Thanks the jkhan(y)
it is significant that the pre-p individual
Is 10,000 years younger from the others:unsure:

mtdna
2 x M
2 x N
1 x R
1 X U8
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Tianyuan has no Denisovan ancestry, and neither does Yana or Mal’ta making the origins of their paternal lineage in SEA quite unlikely.
 
Sorry had a accidental double post
 
just before the Aurignacian, there were many regional cultures in Europe
the first ones popped up around 48 ka
they lasted only a few thousand years
first Aurignacians arrived 43,5 ka
they spread all over Europe 39 ka
they were C1a2 and they whiped out all other modern humans and the Neadnerthals in Europe

so, I'm not surprised there were so many different clades between 48 ka and 39 ka
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Tianyuan has no Denisovan ancestry, and neither does Yana or Mal’ta making the origins of their paternal lineage in SEA quite unlikely.
You are wrong, a study found both Tianyuan and Salkhit have Denisovan ancestry, but they got this from a (northern) Denisovan population that's very different from the (southern) Denisovans who contributed archaic ancestry to SE Asians.Most modern SE Asians, South Asians, East Asians and Oceanians have trace ancestry from the southern Denisovans, which is elevated among Oceanians due to further admixture events. On the other hand modern East Asians have trace ancestry from the northern Denisovans which is absent in other Eastern Non-Africans.
 
just before the Aurignacian, there were many regional cultures in Europe
the first ones popped up around 48 ka
they lasted only a few thousand years
first Aurignacians arrived 43,5 ka
they spread all over Europe 39 ka
they were C1a2 and they whiped out all other modern humans and the Neadnerthals in Europe

so, I'm not surprised there were so many different clades between 48 ka and 39 ka

Why do you assume the C1a2 folks killed all other modern Humans and Neanderthals in Europe. The evidence suggest that the Neanderthals admixed with early Europeans and were more likely absorbed.
 
There is not remotely enough admixture to suggest neanderthals weren't outcompeted until extinction.
 
I was under the impression that the admixture with Neanderthal took place mostly in the Middle East.

Ed. No, wait, there was a mixed Neanderthal child somewhere in the Balkans, yes? Mixed with AMH?

Still, some admixture doesn't mean the men weren't killed or "eliminated" from the breeding pool in other ways, as seems to be the pattern in a lot of history. There isn't much, if any, C1a2 in Europe left. Of course, there weren't many of them to start off.
 
I wonder where was D
E was still in africa till late mesolithic
But some branches of D are old
https://www.yfull.com/tree/D/
Maybe D was later southern costal route that skipped west asia :unsure:
 

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