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Maciamo
27-09-21, 16:29
The study on ancient Etruscan DNA by Posth et al. 2021 (https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/41861-The-origin-and-legacy-of-the-Etruscans-through-a-2000-year-archeogenomic-time-transec) showed that three Etruscan individuals were genetically closer to modern Northwest Europeans. Intrigued I checked their percentage of similarities with modern European populations using Eurogenes K36 and the map tool (https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm) made by Jerome Hamon.

The dominant components for all three samples are Italian, Iberian, East_Central_Euro and North_Sea (except for CSN002 where North_Sea is replaced by East_Balkans and West_Med).


CAM002 (780-540 BCE, from Campiglia dei Foci, Siena, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM002-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM002-K36-map.png

This is the oldest sample and it is an excellent match to modern Savoy, but also Switzerland, France, Lombardy and the Baleares.


CSN002 (427-265 BCE, from Casenovole, Grosseto, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CSN002-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CSN002-K36-map.png

No clear modern match for this one, although it is reasonably close to most of Spain, France, North Italy, the Alps, the northern Balkans and Romania, so generally speaking the wider Italo-Celtic world.


VET005(360-200 BCE, from Vetulonia, Grosseto, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET005-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET005-K36-map.png

I am particularly interested in VET005 as it is my best match on Dodecad K12b so far of any of the thousands of ancient DNA samples available. It makes sense as it is very similar to modern Northern France and West Germany. It is one of the few ancient Etruscan samples that could date from the Roman period, as Etruria was annexed by Rome in the 3rd century BCE and the average age estimate is around 280 BCE, very close to the time of the final conquest of Etruria in 264 BCE.

Vallicanus
27-09-21, 17:26
@Maciamo

K36 maps for some of the most characteristic Etruscan individuals and the North African outliers would be most appreciated.

Maciamo
27-09-21, 17:29
Here are a few other Etruscan samples from the main Southwest European cluster.

CAM001 (780-540 BCE, from :Campiglia dei Foci, Siena, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM001-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM001-K36-map.png

This sample is representative of the Etruscan average, matching modern Northwest Italy, Switzerland, South France and Iberia (except Basques).


VET002 (790-550 BCE, from Vetulonia, Grosseto, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET002-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET002-K36-map.png

The best match are Swiss Italians, followed by North Italians, French and Iberians..

VET010 (788-545 BCE, from Vetulonia, Grosseto, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET010-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET010-K36-map.png

Again, Swiss Italians followed by North Italians, French and Iberians.

Maciamo
27-09-21, 17:35
Here are the samples that contain North African, Near Eastern, East Med, and Arabian admixtures (most probably of Phoenician/Carthaginian origin). They are all closest to modern Maltese, then South Italians.

TAQ007 (391-207 BCE, Tarquinia, Viterbo, Lazio)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/TAQ007-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/TAQ007-K36-map.png


TAQ023 (396-216 BCE, Tarquinia, Viterbo, Lazio)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/TAQ023-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/TAQ023-K36-map.png


VET008 (372-204 BCE, Vetulonia, Grosseto, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET008-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/VET008-K36-map.png

Pax Augusta
29-09-21, 15:21
Here are a few other Etruscan samples from the main Southwest European cluster.

CAM001 (780-540 BCE, from :Campiglia dei Foci, Siena, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM001-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM001-K36-map.png

This sample is representative of the Etruscan average, matching modern Northwest Italy, Switzerland, South France and Iberia (except Basques).


Interestingly enough that Tuscans still get 71, which is a value that puts them among the closest populations, although the peak with 76 is among Swiss-Italians and an Iberian sample.

Angela
29-09-21, 19:21
Interestingly enough that Tuscans still get 71, which is a value that puts them among the closest populations, although the peak with 76 is among Swiss-Italians and an Iberian sample.

The people of the Baleares, living on an island as they do, and having been repopulated from the nearby Spanish coast after having been depopulated, have probably experienced a lot of founder effect and drift. I don't know if the same could be said for the 76 of the Swiss Italians.

The 73 for Portugal is surprising (like the rest of western Spain, you would think the North African y lines would have cut into it),but if my memory serves, the
73 and 74 figures for Spain are the areas where Urnfield had a higher presence, and I think those are high areas for U-152 as far as Spain goes. The southern
French areas are also where you find a lot of U-152.

This is the U-152 map from ancestrydna

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mAZESGfNIcc/Tdzh5VvVIlI/AAAAAAAABPo/vwwM_wXVJ-I/s1600/u152_frequency_map_2010_13_small.png

Pax Augusta
30-09-21, 02:58
The people of the Baleares, living on an island as they do, and having been repopulated from the nearby Spanish coast after having been depopulated, have probably experienced a lot of founder effect and drift. I don't know if the same could be said for the 76 of the Swiss Italians.

The 73 for Portugal is surprising (like the rest of western Spain, you would think the North African y lines would have cut into it),but if my memory serves, the
73 and 74 figures for Spain are the areas where Urnfield had a higher presence, and I think those are high areas for U-152 as far as Spain goes. The southern
French areas are also where you find a lot of U-152


In my opinion this tool based on K36 created by Tolan does not show results in as much detail. The Spanish Baleares and Portuguese get these results because they are barely closer to Italy than other Iberian samples, similar results for Catalans and what appears to be Valencia. Curiously, however, the Tuscans get 71, which is a result that contradicts the idea that the Etruscans have completely disappeared.

Swiss Italians are more typical North Italians for the Alpine area than let's say Po Valley (G25 has horrible and unrepresentative Swiss Italian samples, as for other Italian samples).

Palermo Trapani
30-09-21, 07:32
Yep...this shows old Romans were different people to modern Italians!! Thank you!!

Not sure I agree with you. And these are only 3 Etruscan samples. There are 82 samples in the Posth et al 2021 paper, and I think 23 or so are identified as Etruscans. There is an entire thread and the Etruscans using all the samples are not closest to Scandinavian populations (if you hold to Nordicist theories) or even the British Isles. I suggest you look at some of the posts in The Origin and Legacy of the Estrucans thread. Pax Augusta's post 227 shows the 23 Estruscan samples plot between Central Italians and Iberian (Spanish) populations which in fact is pretty much where overall the Iron Age Republican Roman samples in Antonio et al 2019 plotted.

So they sure as hell were not Scandinavians nor Peoples from the British Isles.

Angela
30-09-21, 14:08
^^Succinct and to the point. Well said.

Sad that after all the samples we've seen it still hasn't sunk in.

Duarte
30-09-21, 18:44
CAM001 (780-540 BCE, from :Campiglia dei Foci, Siena, Tuscany)

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM001-K36.png

https://www.eupedia.com/images/CAM001-K36-map.png

This sample is representative of the Etruscan average, matching modern Northwest Italy, Switzerland, South France and Iberia (except Basques).


The month I became a member of eupedia I made this heat map based on my K36 data. I rescued this old image and I can see that it has some similarity with the K36 image of the CAM001 sample (above), although my match numbers with the same Iberian, French and Italian pops being slightly higher.

https://i.imgur.com/t4lO5Fn.jpg

Tomenable
14-10-21, 14:36
They were not so different from Iron Age Latins.