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Satori
17-03-04, 13:40
STALKING "THE THING"

3/12/2004

It's back. "The Thing That Just Won't Die" has returned in mutated form to terrorize the good people of our country, gorging itself on gargantuan fistfuls of our First and Fourth Amendment rights.

"The Thing" was once known as TIA--Total Information Awareness--the Orwellian/Frankensteinian creation of John Poindexter, the disgraced, convicted, and totally loopy former operative from the Reagan White House. Brought in from the cold by George W, Poindexter set up shop in a wing of the Pentagon called DARPA--Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.

At DARPA, the maniacal Poindexter put together his TIA, a supercomputerized program to gather every scrap of data there is on everybody--from our bank accounts to video rentals, our medical histories to photos of protests we've attended. All of this was to be sifted and sorted, ostensibly to detect suspicious behavior that would tag someone as a possible terrorist.

Noting that this would make millions of Americans suspected terrorists and amount to a wholesale invasion of our people's privacy, the public screamed, congress cut-off TIA's funding, and Poindexter ultimately was forced back to Disgraceland.

But, wait...TIA didn't die. It metamorphosed from DARPA to ARDA--Advanced Research and Development Activity. While publicly pretending to kill TIA, congressional leaders had quietly funneled money to ARDA to resurrect TIA as The Thing, which is now pursuing the exact same assault on our privacy as TIA was, even using some of Poindexter's old crew.

ARDA says that its Thing can wolf down a "petabyte or more" of data. How much is that? A petabyte will hold 40 pages of text on every man, woman, and child in the world, with room left to get information on your dog and parakeet.

To help us finally drive a stake through the heart of this Thing, call the Center for Democracy and Technology: 202-637-9800.

"Office was cut, but data-mining work continues." Austin American-Statesman. February 23, 2004.



Jim Hightower
Hightower & Associates
1802 W. 6th Street
Austin, TX 78703
512-477-5588
[email protected]



http://www.jimhightower.com/air/read.asp?id=11318

Winter
17-03-04, 17:43
This is bad. How many of us have voted to allow our privacy to be taken away just to improve our sense of security, especially since its false?

F*ck the system.

Hachiko
18-03-04, 02:17
I think that report is pretty exaggerrated, even propaganda-like. You have to find a balance between security and privacy, and the Thing provides it. Personally, I don't like George W. Bush, but then again, this, like many things, has to be a necessary evil in the land that is America.

Satori
18-03-04, 02:26
this, like many things, has to be a necessary evil in the land that is America.


There is no "America" when things like this become "necessary" ...

Hachiko
18-03-04, 02:41
There is no "America" when things like this become "necessary" ...

Well, to hardball it back, every nation and entity has necessary evils...all nations have what we call "elections," the Olympics have "doping rules," sports have "losers/losing teams," school and education can be viewed as a necessary evil...and when you take these necessary evils away, you have no countries, you have no Olympics, you have no sports, you don't have smart, educated human beings, etc. So there has to be a balance here, to make the world the way it is.

Satori
18-03-04, 02:47
The thing is, Hachiko, there wasn't an "election" that placed Bush in office, so let's not forget that. America is built on freedoms--the right to privacy being just one of them--and once our freedoms go, so does America.

Hachiko
18-03-04, 02:49
The thing is, Hachiko, there wasn't an "election" that placed Bush in office, so let's not forget that. America is built on freedoms--the right to privacy being just one of them--and once our freedoms go, so does America.

You're entitled to your own opinion, Satori. However, we're having new elections this year, and West Palm Beach has a new voting system. And that's why a lot of people are pulling for Kerry to defeat Bush, cause a majority are fed up with Bush's unnecessary antics (save those in the South and Bible Belt).

kirei_na_me
18-03-04, 02:57
This is one southern girl who wants Dubya out! Of course, I'm hardly the 'typical' southerner.

And speaking of the FL vote(sent to me by Frank):

Satori
18-03-04, 02:58
I can't believe you would advocate the loss of our right to privacy as "necessary," Hachiko. It's obvious that you and I don't agree, so let's just leave it at that. Maybe once you are my age, you will see things a little differently.

Satori
18-03-04, 03:01
This is one southern girl who wants Dubya out!


Me too!! He was never voted into office in the first place!

kirei_na_me
18-03-04, 03:02
I only wish Ralph Nader could be voted in, but that will never happen.

Got to be a Skull & Bones guy, it seems.

Hachiko
18-03-04, 03:02
I can't believe you would advocate the loss of our right to privacy as "necessary," Hachiko. It's obvious that you and I don't agree, so let's just leave it at that. Maybe once you are my age, you will see things a little differently.

So be it. :o
Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, and I personally feel it should be okay and fair for people to have different viewpoints on various issues such as this. :-)

And as for me seeing things a little differently...I'm already there. But, you see, Satori, I look at these issues from both sides of the spectrum. Just because you think I see it as "necessary" doesn't mean I wholly support the consequence of the loss of privacy. I don't like this either, but unfortunately, this is going to happen, because of what our governemnt does.

Satori
18-03-04, 18:46
So be it. :o
Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, and I personally feel it should be okay and fair for people to have different viewpoints on various issues such as this. :-)

And as for me seeing things a little differently...I'm already there. But, you see, Satori, I look at these issues from both sides of the spectrum. Just because you think I see it as "necessary" doesn't mean I wholly support the consequence of the loss of privacy. I don't like this either, but unfortunately, this is going to happen, because of what our governemnt does.


You contradict yourself throughout your post, so let's just leave it at that.

Satori
18-03-04, 18:47
Date: March 18, 2004

Not satisfied with the new snooping powers granted by the PATRIOT Act, the Department of Justice is now asking the Federal Communications Commission to allow law enforcement the power to regulate the design of Internet communications services to make them easy to wiretap.

If implemented, the new request by Attorney General John Ashcroft would dramatically increase the government's surveillance powers and set a precedent for opening the entire Internet to law enforcement. By forcing technology companies to build "backdoors" in their systems for wiretapping, the Ashcroft plan would also create weaknesses that hackers and thieves could use to invade your privacy and steal personal information like credit card numbers.

The government already has more than enough power to spy on individuals suspected of wrongdoing. This measure is the equivalent of requiring all new homes be built with a peephole for law enforcement agents to look through.

Frank D. White
18-03-04, 21:40
Let me tell you, we spy on everyone & everything. We even have a branch to spy on our own military people. and a branch of spys who spy on the other spys! We listen in on the British, Canadians, Mexicans. you name em we evesdrop & record em! But there is a big plus to
all this!! We gather so much intel & info that it sits and rots before any of it gets used. Probably half the earths polution comes from burning old intel that is outdated and never was looked at.It's kinda like you have 500 channels on satalite TV and 500 VCRS running non-stop to record each chan. so you don't miss anything! Trouble is, you are so busy swapping tapes in & out and putting labels on them, you NEVER have time to watch any of them! And our field agents make Maxwell Smart look good!! My neighbor was EX-CIA(30 year man) & the dumbest cluck I ever met. He was over to my house every other day for me to help him out of some jam. If
it wasn't for pure luck & falling into good info our inteligence community would have been out of business long ago. The only agency watching me I fear is the Infernal Revinue Service!! If you make an error on a tax return, it takes them 3 years or more to find it , thats if they do!

Frank

Satori
18-03-04, 21:46
Let me tell you, we spy on everyone & everything. We even have a branch to spy on our own military people. and a branch of spys who spy on the other spys! We listen in on the British, Canadians, Mexicans. you name em we evesdrop & record em! But there is a big plus to
all this!! We gather so much intel & info that it sits and rots before any of it gets used. Probably half the earths polution comes from burning old intel that is outdated and never was looked at.It's kinda like you have 500 channels on satalite TV and 500 VCRS running non-stop to record each chan. so you don't miss anything! Trouble is, you are so busy swapping tapes in & out and putting labels on them, you NEVER have time to watch any of them! And our field agents make Maxwell Smart look good!! My neighbor was EX-CIA(30 year man) & the dumbest cluck I ever met. He was over to my house every other day for me to help him out of some jam. If
it wasn't for pure luck & falling into good info our inteligence community would have been out of business long ago. The only agency watching me I fear is the Infernal Revinue Service!! If you make an error on a tax return, it takes them 3 years or more to find it , thats if they do!

Frank

I love that response, Frank!! It's given me a good chuckle and a little bit of comfort, I must say.
:happy:

EscaFlowne
18-03-04, 22:21
Frank, thats the best thing i have heard lately. :D Now the footstepping on american privacy was inevitable. Of course its not right. It seems like they are going.....wait i will finish this tomorrow. I gotta go. sorry guys. :relief:

Satori
18-03-04, 22:25
Frank, thats the best thing i have heard lately. :D Now the footstepping on american privacy was inevitable. Of course its not right. It seems like they are going.....wait i will finish this tomorrow. I gotta go. sorry guys. :relief:

Talk about leaving me hanging, EscaFlowne!! I'll be waiting for the rest of your reply with baited breath!
:-)

Frank D. White
18-03-04, 22:28
In "Spy School" they told the story of how we had the intel about Pearl Harbor's approaching attack sitting on some desk; didn't come across it till about 3 weeks after.
When I think of what could be done with the billions spent on the UN-inteligence community, Oh such a waste!

Frank
:mad:

Hachiko
19-03-04, 01:34
You contradict yourself throughout your post, so let's just leave it at that.

Everyone, and anyone, will contradict their opinions one way or another, sooner or later. You should know that already. And THAT, my friend, is the bottom line. Done.


Let me tell you, we spy on everyone & everything. We even have a branch to spy on our own military people. and a branch of spys who spy on the other spys! We listen in on the British, Canadians, Mexicans. you name em we evesdrop & record em! But there is a big plus to
all this!! We gather so much intel & info that it sits and rots before any of it gets used. Probably half the earths polution comes from burning old intel that is outdated and never was looked at.It's kinda like you have 500 channels on satalite TV and 500 VCRS running non-stop to record each chan. so you don't miss anything! Trouble is, you are so busy swapping tapes in & out and putting labels on them, you NEVER have time to watch any of them! And our field agents make Maxwell Smart look good!! My neighbor was EX-CIA(30 year man) & the dumbest cluck I ever met. He was over to my house every other day for me to help him out of some jam. If
it wasn't for pure luck & falling into good info our inteligence community would have been out of business long ago. The only agency watching me I fear is the Infernal Revinue Service!! If you make an error on a tax return, it takes them 3 years or more to find it , thats if they do!

Exactly. My point well taken, Frank.

Satori
19-03-04, 01:40
Hachiko,

You should know I am fully aware of your real identity and that I am now placing you on my ignore list.


Satori

Hachiko
19-03-04, 01:49
If you decide to ignore me, Satori, that's your choice. But it's your loss and your ignorance of opinion as well.

jeisan
19-03-04, 02:55
re: the FCC/FBI tapping internet ish
yeah there was something about that on techtv today, basicly it comes down to the same thing as tapping phones, need warrants and court orders etc. but since they cant really force all software makers, especially non-US, to build in the hooks, they want ISPs to do it.
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3633130,00.html
theres 6 links to info about halfway down the page.

im still with ben franklin on this issue, at least i think it was he who said "any fool willing to give up a little liberty for a little security will get neither."

Satori
19-03-04, 03:07
im still with ben franklin on this issue, at least i think it was he who said "any fool willing to give up a little liberty for a little security will get neither."


Well said, Jeisan!!

Hachiko
19-03-04, 03:27
Just to nip Satori's misunderstanding of my first post here in the bud, everyone, I also found some articles on this as well:


Mar. 18 - Unbelievable mortgage rates, inexpensive prescriptions drugs and quick fixes for losing inches are just some of the unwanted offers that end up in e-mail boxes daily.

At home, people's Internet service providers such as AOL block spam, said Jeff Rodemyer, owner of J. R. Computer Technologies in Springettsbury Township.

In business, he said, a company typically implements programs to block spam.

The first anti-spam legislation went into effect Jan. 1, but the Pew Internet and American Life Project released study findings today that show Internet users remain frustrated.



Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/national/8219976.htm)


Who should run the Internet?

It's no longer merely an academic question. Since 1998, responsibility for overseeing domain names and addresses has rested with the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), a nonprofit group based in Marina Del Ray, Calif.

ICANN has enjoyed notable successes in the last six years. It has created a way to resolve domain name disputes, formalized some ad hoc arrangements the U.S. government created and approved a handful of top-level domains like .aero and .museum. In between, ICANN has weathered outbreaks of congressional enmity and, occasionally, outright hostility from foreign governments.

But now, the governance structure of the Internet may have reached an inflection point. ICANN is being assailed domestically by VeriSign, which filed a federal lawsuit last month, complaining that it has been repeatedly thwarted in trying to make money off its government-granted right to run the master .com and .net database. Internationally, ICANN is fending off a power grab from the United Nations, which has wanted more involvement with the Internet, ever since one of its agencies in 1999 proposed a tax of 1 cent per every 100 e-mail messages.



CNet.com (http://news.com.com/2008-1082_3-5174043.html)

And for the record everyone, just because I said in my first the report was exaggerated didn't mean that it wasn't valid at all. It was true, but I feel that how it was written made it look like it was a life-or-death situation, almost Matrix-like.

Frank D. White
19-03-04, 03:37
let the thead scab over instead of peeling it off & making it bleed. Everyone can have a differnt opinion. If we took a vote on every thread they would all probably come out 49% for, 49% against. 1% don't know, 1% don't care.
Let's move on to the next argument. The ol guy gets un-nerved by up-set feelings and has to take a nitro tab!

Frank

:shock:

Hachiko
19-03-04, 03:41
Geezz Hach, You're Not On Trial.... let the thead scab over instead of peeling it off & making it bleed. Everyone can have a differnt opinion. If we took a vote on every thread they would all probably come out 49% for, 49% against. 1% don't know, 1% don't care.
Let's move on to the next argument. The ol guy gets un-nerved by up-set feelings and has to take a nitro tab!

Frank

:shock:

Well said. That's why I said previously...


Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, and I personally feel it should be okay and fair for people to have different viewpoints on various issues such as this.

jeisan
19-03-04, 04:06
...And for the record everyone, just because I said in my first the report was exaggerated didn't mean that it wasn't valid at all. It was true, but I feel that how it was written made it look like it was a life-or-death situation, almost Matrix-like.

ill agree it does sound propaganda-ish, but i hardly believe "the thing" is a "balance between privacy and security."

EscaFlowne
19-03-04, 15:22
Frank, thats the best thing i have heard lately. :D Now the footstepping on american privacy was inevitable. Of course its not right. It seems like they are going.....wait i will finish this tomorrow. I gotta go. sorry guys. :relief:

Like i was saying earlier, it was just a matter of time that something like this would happen. Especially with the increase of checking out everyone that would leave the country to entering th country-don't you think that they would also be tyring to investigate ways of catching a criminal before he makes the wrong decision. Its just like "Minority Report". But the privacy issues come up, Really a person has no privacy because if America thinks it can save the people as a whole nothing is private.
Is it wrong to stockhouse loads of information about a person againts there will...YES. Could the information be used in a way that would damage a person life...YEs! Can we trust the people taking the information...No..I mean look they had to change the name of it to something else just so as not to take heat in the public eye! Its like they believe Americans are just going to be quite lil auomatons that will let there lives be recorded...and looking for American terrorist??? Why would Americans try to destroy there own country :mad: The gov. is in a completely wrong area for starters-though some americans of course have a different nationality of course, it just seems like they have thier efforts pointint the wrong direction.. IT amazes me, that the people America puts its privacy...its safety in can't even tell the truth.... and that only if they've got nothing to hide. :note:


im still with ben franklin on this issue, at least i think it was he who said "any fool willing to give up a little liberty for a little security will get neither." WEll said!!!!


Just some rambling by me...it probally would have been put together better if i would have finished yesterday. :note: :relief:

Hachiko
19-03-04, 16:58
Okay everyone, here's a quick question from me,

Is the U.S. the only country that would go this far to ruin the privacy of others for the sake of liberty, or have other nations today done something similar to this?