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Satori
18-03-04, 05:02
THE MADNESS OF OUR MAD COW POLICY

3/11/2004

When the first undeniable case of American Mad Cow disease broke into the news last December, a host of Bush officials trotted out to shout: "Just an isolated case"..."America's beef supply is the safest in the world"...Trust us, we're experts." Even George told the media that he'd eaten beef for Christmas dinner --so, see, no problem, all clean, don't think about it any more.

Yes, admitted the ag department's top animal scientist, the Mad Cow in question was part of a herd of 80 cattle that also could be infected, but, by gollies, our animal tracking system is excellent, so, "we feel confident that we are going to be able to determine the whereabouts of most, if not all of these animals, within the next several days." Trust us.

Seven weeks later, the ag scientist had to admit that only one-third of the suspect cattle could be found. "We never expected to be able to find all of them," he lied, apparently hoping we wouldn't recall his earlier promise. The other two-thirds couldn't be tracked and presumably had ended up in our lunches and dinners. Declaring the investigation over, he said, "It's time to move on."

Move on? To where? To a Mad Cow burger? So much for our "experts."

And when real experts do speak, the Bushites cover their ears. Ag Secretary Ann Veneman had attempted to calm public concern last December by convening a panel of international experts on Mad Cow, expecting the panel to say everything is okey-dokey. Instead, the experts concluded that the reason the USDA has found only one case of Mad Cow disease is that it has not looked very hard. Of 30 million cattle slaughtered each year, only 40,000 are tested for the deadly disease. The panel chairman said that USDA might find "a case a month" of Mad Cow if it was doing enough testing.

Rather than implementing any of the safety measures proposed by the panel, however, Veneman continues to mouth the industry line that this was just an isolated case and our beef supply is perfectly pure.


"U.S. Ends Official Mad Cow Inquiry," The Washington Post. February 10, 2004.
"Talk 'Till Cows Come Home, But beef Safety Takes Action," Austin American Statesman. February 12, 2004.
"Ban Urged on All Animal Protein for Cattle, Wall Street Journal. February 5, 2004.
"Man Who Killed the Mad Cow Has Questions of His Own," The New York Times. February 3, 2004.




http://www.jimhightower.com/air/read.asp?id=11317

Hachiko
18-03-04, 07:02
Well, I haven't heard in the news about Mad Cow disease in a while, so at least for now they must be doing something right. Shoots, unless I'm mistaken, there hasn't been a case of the bird flu virus in the USA!

m477
18-03-04, 07:10
Man, I hope they find a way to get rid of mad cow disease soon so I can have gyu-don again! :p

Satori
18-03-04, 07:11
Well, I haven't heard in the news about Mad Cow disease in a while, so at least for now they must be doing something right. Shoots, unless I'm mistaken, there hasn't been a case of the bird flu virus in the USA!

You might want to re-read the article, especially where it says:


Of 30 million cattle slaughtered each year, only 40,000 are tested for the deadly disease. The panel chairman said that USDA might find "a case a month" of Mad Cow if it was doing enough testing.

Rather than implementing any of the safety measures proposed by the panel, however, Veneman continues to mouth the industry line that this was just an isolated case and our beef supply is perfectly pure.

Hachiko
18-03-04, 09:41
I've reread the article, and they still haven't found any infected cows yet. And there hasn't been any recent cases of mad cow disease in a while. Thus, the beef supply out here is, for the most part, safe.

I'm sure the farmers and ranchers are keeping an eye out for any weird behavior to their cows, or anything suspicious. I would suspect that every farmer and rancher in the USA is now more knowledgeable, or has taken steps to, and has taken every precautionary measure given to them by the Department of Agriculture, the USDA, etc, to make sure their cattle is safe for slaughter and consumption. There may be a few who don't do this, but they are very few among many, and I would think even they are beginning to understand this disease, or already have.

JMHO. :bluush: :-)

Satori
18-03-04, 19:19
Originally posted by Hachiko:
I've reread the article, and they still haven't found any infected cows yet.

If you will read the article again, you will see where it explains WHY they haven't found any infected cows--not enough testing going on.

Your comments about the farmers are naive, but like I said in another thread, you are very young, so maybe that explains it.

Hachiko
19-03-04, 02:44
If you will read the article again, you will see where it explains WHY they haven't found any infected cows--not enough testing going on.

Your comments about the farmers are naive, but like I said in another thread, you are very young, so maybe that explains it.

And your assumption about my age is rendered laughable...Miss Satori (if I may call you that). I'm 19, not 9.

And I've already told you, I've already read the article, and I know they would take the necessary action...if they didn't, I wouldn't be able to be posting here right now, since I would be suffering from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in the hospital.

bossel
19-04-04, 03:00
No tests, no results!

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/opinion/18SUN2.html

Since this will disappear into NYTs archives very soon & then you'd have to pay for viewing it, I post an excerpt:

"[...]The request to conduct tests was submitted by Creekstone Farms Premium Beef, a small producer in Kansas, which wanted to resume selling its high-priced Black Angus beef in Japan, a major market. The Japanese have detected some 10 or so cases of mad cow disease in their own country, so they now test every animal slaughtered for food purposes there. They want American exporters to do the same.

Creekstone was willing to oblige even though it believes the American beef supply is already safe. (One cow in the state of Washington tested positive for the disease last December, but it was found to have originated in Canada.) The Japanese ban is costing the company some $200,000 a day and has forced it to lay off 45 workers. Creekstone planned to test all 300,000 animals slaughtered at its Kansas plant each year, using the same rapid diagnostic tests used in Japan.
[...]
The stated reason for the rejection was that the rapid tests are licensed only for surveillance, not to guarantee consumer safety. But critics contend the department is primarily trying to protect the beef industry from pressure to test all 35 million or so cattle slaughtered in this country annually. Such blanket testing would raise production costs, and discovery of a single case of mad cow disease, or even a false positive, might cause American beef sales to plummet.

What is most worrying about this entire incident is not that Creekstone will not be able to do the tests, or even that the federal government appears to be discouraging a minor concession that would lead to both exports and jobs. If the cattle industry has the clout to sway a government department on this kind of issue, it probably has the clout to influence federal officials when it comes to questions much closer to the interests of American consumers.[...]"

playaa
19-04-04, 06:46
I think I will have to back up Hachiko on this one.

Satori, by the way why would age matter? I know of some 13 year olds, who could run any of us by in knowledge... So age is not the matter at hand here and should be kept in the "obsolete" side of your head and not the "he just posted a good reply, lets give him the low blow" side.

Anyways, how many times a year, do you hear of an american coming down sick because o fmad cow? I mean if I hear about the taco bell being shut down in Florida for finding human feces in the meat, I am sure you would hear of people dying or being sick from madcow... So OBVIOUSLY they are doing something right, and being I have eaten beef for 20 years, my mom for 50 years, and my grandparents for 80 years.. and none of us have ever had any problems, I do think the meat is safe.

Though I do agree they could do MORE and actually provide results, I do not boycott the meat industry.

Satori
19-04-04, 06:53
I think I will have to back up Hachiko on this one.

Satori, by the way why would age matter? I know of some 13 year olds, who could run any of us by in knowledge... So age is not the matter at hand here and should be kept in the "obsolete" side of your head and not the "he just posted a good reply, lets give him the low blow" side.

Anyways, how many times a year, do you hear of an american coming down sick because o fmad cow? I mean if I hear about the taco bell being shut down in Florida for finding human feces in the meat, I am sure you would hear of people dying or being sick from madcow... So OBVIOUSLY they are doing something right, and being I have eaten beef for 20 years, my mom for 50 years, and my grandparents for 80 years.. and none of us have ever had any problems, I do think the meat is safe.

Though I do agree they could do MORE and actually provide results, I do not boycott the meat industry.


You'll find more on the Hachiko story here: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7822

playaa
19-04-04, 06:57
Ah, well Satori.. I was never attacking you. Just so you know, and that explains a good bit.. If I had known.. Apologies. :)

Solution to your problem.. Get Thomas or Maciamo to match the IP Addresses of the nick's you claim he uses... Easy way to tell, if he masks his IP I am sure he has slipped up once or twice on a post :)

Satori
19-04-04, 06:57
Ah, well Satori.. I was never attacking you. Just so you know, and that explains a good bit.. If I had known.. Apologies. :)

Thanks, Playaa. No problem. :-)

playaa
19-04-04, 06:58
Check the Edit Satori :)

Solution to your problem.. Get Thomas or Maciamo to match the IP Addresses of the nick's you claim he uses... Easy way to tell, if he masks his IP I am sure he has slipped up once or twice on a post
__________________

Satori
19-04-04, 11:32
Check the Edit Satori :)

Solution to your problem.. Get Thomas or Maciamo to match the IP Addresses of the nick's you claim he uses... Easy way to tell, if he masks his IP I am sure he has slipped up once or twice on a post
__________________

Thanks, Playaa. He's been banned at another forum several times on that basis, and that's how he was caught--and it's also how he'll go down again. He uses several computers at a time.

den4
19-04-04, 23:02
speaking of mad cow, isn't there a farmer in the US that is trying to sell beef with a complete inspection of all his beef, but the US government is balking because it would be too costly? It would seem that if they aren't selling good grade quality beef to their number one importer overseas, that the farmers are losing money anyway....maybe I missed something in the translation from the Japanese news.... :o

bossel
20-04-04, 11:56
speaking of mad cow, isn't there a farmer in the US that is trying to sell beef with a complete inspection of all his beef, but the US government is balking because it would be too costly? It would seem that if they aren't selling good grade quality beef to their number one importer overseas, that the farmers are losing money anyway....maybe I missed something in the translation from the Japanese news.... :o

Look at post #8, I think, what I posted is what you are referring to.

den4
20-04-04, 16:36
apparently I wasn't only Lost in the Translation, but lost in this thread as well :D
Great to know when your own government is trying to screw you to make some special interests happy....but, I guess that's the function of government these days.... :D

Rachel
20-04-04, 20:21
I think your govement is being VERY foolish, this isn't something you can just sweep under the carpet and ignore.
During the outbreak over here a couple of years ago I was working for the State Vetinary Service as a data inputter in the de-briefing section.
I KNOW just how contagious this virus is. It spreads like wild-fire; the symptoms only show after infection, for a short period; it can infect sheep just as easily and it can't be vaccinated against. There is a vaccine but all it does is slow the spread of the disease, so we use it only on live-stock that are due for slaughter within the week to prevent it from adapting.
It can be passed by contact, so farmers were put under quarantine conditions. If they wanted to leave the farm they had to notify the police and get a permit. Their farms had to under go a disinfection procedure which lasted 5 months.

It devastated my county, we lost 3 quarters of are stock. One farmer alone lost 35,000 prime grade sheep which were put down by the army in two days of shooting. For about a month worcester stunk of burning cattle and sheep.

So I say again, your govement is being VERY foolish !

playaa
20-04-04, 20:54
Dang, Rachel sorry to hear about that.. Let's hope it does not get that bad here in the U.S., What a waste of life.

den4
20-04-04, 23:48
I thought the mad cow had to do with prions and cattle being fed with infected cows...didn't know it was an actual virus.... :o

bossel
21-04-04, 01:08
I thought the mad cow had to do with prions and cattle being fed with infected cows...didn't know it was an actual virus.... :o
You are right, it's not a virus but mutated prions that cause the disease: "through physical contact, the mutated prion protein (called PrPSC) is able to switch the normal version into the mutated form."
from the New Scientist BSE FAQ:
http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/bse/bsefaq.jsp;jsessionid=AFBIGNDOKOIF

AFAIK, it's also not really as contagious as Rachel wrote, you have to eat contaminated beef to become infected. I think, all humans with vCJD have eaten beef from infected cattle (well, OK, it's not absolutely sure, but most probable). There were theories of other infection ways but none have been proved.

Satori
21-04-04, 18:01
THE B.S. OF BUSH'S MAD COW POLICIES

The only thing madder than Mad Cow disease is our government's Mad Cow policies.

Take the case of Creekstone Farms Premium Beef, a small, enterprising company in Kansas that produces top quality beef. To assure both U.S. and foreign buyers that its product is free of Mad Cow disease, Creekstone said that it would exceed USDAs minimal testing standards and pay to have every single one of its cows privately tested.

Great! Who could be against more testing and such innovative entrepreneurship?

The U.S. Department of Agriculture, for one. The big beef lobby for two.

In another case of Bushite bushwa, USDA notified Creekstone that it does not allow private testing, even by certified labs (this from an administration that's privatizing everything from its wars to your water supply). Why? The official rationale is that only the government can assure food safety. But how can testing 100 percent of cows be less safe than USDA's program that inspects less than 1 percent?

The real reason for USDA's intransigence is that the Big Boys of the beef slaughtering world ? Tyson, the National Cattleman's Beef Association, etc.?? don't want to do 100-percent testing themselves, and they want no competition from anyone who does. Their claim is that Creekstone's testing would "mislead" us consumers, for we might think that 100-percent testing produces a safer product.

Aside from the fact that more testing does assure more safety, Creekstone is not even making such a claim. It's only claiming that, indeed, it tests 100 percent of its cows. Then its up to us consumers to decide in the marketplace which beef we prefer. But the Bushites and the big beef lobbyists refuse to allow such consumer choice, declaring that Creekstone cannot advertise that every ounce of it's beef is fully tested.


http://www.jimhightower.com/air/read.asp?id=11340

Hachiko
21-04-04, 18:18
Thanks, Playaa. He's been banned at another forum several times on that basis, and that's how he was caught--and it's also how he'll go down again. He uses several computers at a time.

Off-topic from this thread, but I'm glad that's taken care of, whew! :relief:

Satori
21-04-04, 18:25
Off-topic from this thread, but I'm glad that's taken care of, whew! :relief:


As you know, Nick aka Hachiko, nothing has been taken care of. In fact, I would appreciate it if you would please stop harassing me by continually trying to discuss this matter and also by trying to send PMs to me when I have made it clear I want nothing to do with you. You need to stop this abuse of me right now.

Hachiko
21-04-04, 19:18
As you know, Nick aka Hachiko, nothing has been taken care of. In fact, I would appreciate it if you would please stop harassing me by continually trying to discuss this matter and also by trying to send PMs to me when I have made it clear I want nothing to do with you. You need to stop this abuse of me right now.

LOL...you're really funny, Satori, I'll give you that.

Seriously, I already stopped discussing this matter; my last post was a matter of having closure to this. If you think I'm abusing you in any way, you're off in your own world. And you still do not realize that I am not Nick (i'm really being honest here), so I am convinced that you are stranded in your own world.

If so, I shall stand back then, and leave you in your self-imposed paranoia.

Satori
21-04-04, 19:37
LOL...you're really funny, Satori, I'll give you that.

Seriously, I already stopped discussing this matter; my last post was a matter of having closure to this. If you think I'm abusing you in any way, you're off in your own world. And you still do not realize that I am not Nick (i'm really being honest here), so I am convinced that you are stranded in your own world.

If so, I shall stand back then, and leave you in your self-imposed paranoia.

I asked you kindly to stop harassing me and abusing me, and what do you do? You abuse me some more. You need to stop this harassment at once, Nick!! I have told you I will NOT tolerate abuse from you anymore. As I have previously posted, the fact that you are Nick Mojzesz is not something I believe but something I know for a fact, so please stop these stupid games of yours in trying to dupe everyone that you're not Nick. You're not fooling anyone, certainly not me. And I'm sorry if the fact that you've been exposed upsets you, but you have no one to blame but yourself for your current predicament. You should have never followed me around, posting contrary responses to every single post I made. Now you're upset that you've been exposed and want to blame me for that. Well, I'm sorry, but you did that to yourself, Nick.

Rachel
21-04-04, 20:00
AFAIK, it's also not really as contagious as Rachel wrote, you have to eat contaminated beef to become infected. I think, all humans with vCJD have eaten beef from infected cattle (well, OK, it's not absolutely sure, but most probable). There were theories of other infection ways but none have been proved.

It IS as contagious as I wrote, but only among cattle and sheep. And the VERY rare cases of human infection from BSE have come from direct contact through a open wound.
There's still alot of debate in the medical community about the human version CJD and how it spreads.

bossel
21-04-04, 20:31
It IS as contagious as I wrote, but only among cattle and sheep. And the VERY rare cases of human infection from BSE have come from direct contact through a open wound.
There's still alot of debate in the medical community about the human version CJD and how it spreads.
Sorry, I have to disagree. For what I know, it is not considered to be really contagious. The only known way of infection is through eating contaminated meat/tissue or bone meal. There are other theories but I haven't heard of any acknowledged case.

Maybe there is the possibility of infection through direct blood contact, but apart from the fact that this should really be a rather rare occasion, I haven't heard of any confirmed case either.

CJD is an illness not necessarily directly connected to BSE. Nobody knows where it derives from, maybe from Scrapie-infected sheep. vCJD is the variant that is very probably related to BSE.

BTW, look at Britain: probably a lot of people (maybe millions) have eaten contaminated meat before it was known to be dangerous. Yet you don't find all too many cases of vCJD. Even taken into account the fact that the incubation period is rather long, there should be more cases by now, if it really would be so dangerous.

Rachel
21-04-04, 20:44
Sorry, I have to disagree. For what I know, it is not considered to be really contagious. The only known way of infection is through eating contaminated meat or bone meal. There are other theories but I haven't heard of any acknowledged case.

Maybe there is the possibility of infection through direct blood contact, but apart from the fact that this should really be a rather rare occasion, I haven't heard of any confirmed case either.

CJD is an illness not necessarily directly connected to BSE. Nobody knows where it derives from, maybe from Scrapie-infected sheep. vCJD is the variant that is very probably related to BSE.

BTW, look at Britain: probably a lot of people (maybe millions) have eaten contaminated meat before it was known to be dangerous. Yet you don't find all too many cases of vCJD. Even taken into account the fact that the incubation period is rather long, there should be more cases by now, if it really would be so dangerous.

Err... Bossel. If think you might be getting your wires crossed a little honey.
Could you re-read what I said please.
BSE is VERY contagious, but ONLY AMONG SHEEP AND CATTLE !!!

And I don't really know much about CJD, why did you bring CJD up anyway ?

Hachiko
21-04-04, 22:26
Satori, I have dismissed your ongoing paranoia and placed you on my ignore list.

bossel
22-04-04, 02:41
Err... Bossel. If think you might be getting your wires crossed a little honey.
Could you re-read what I said please.
BSE is VERY contagious, but ONLY AMONG SHEEP AND CATTLE !!!

And I don't really know much about CJD, why did you bring CJD up anyway ?
I got my wires crossed rather often, I think. Not this time though: BSE in cattle is just the same as in humans, for what I know. They need to be fed on contaminated stuff to become infected. If I remember correctly, there is a possibility of spontaneous mutation of prions, but this again should be a rather rare occurrence.

I've seen some websites where BSE is said to be "highly contagious", but usually these sites seem to have exactly the same text, copied from one source. Since BSE is called a viral disease there, this source should be disqualified, anyway.

For what I remember, I didn't bring up CJD, that was you. I think, I was only talking of vCJD, which is (very probably) the human form of BSE, usually (again, very probably) contracted through eating contaminated food.
Yep, in your original post you referred only to cattle & sheep, but that's not where I see the real danger. If it were just like Food-&-Mouth disease, the danger would be only to the animals (well, only? poor creatures!), not to humans.

Hmm, speaking of F&M disease: now that I mentioned it, your post (#18) actually sounds as if you have been talking of F&M, not BSE.

Last post for today. Have to go to bed now. Good night! :sleep:

Rachel
01-05-04, 14:02
:D :D :D :D :lol: :lol:
I'm so sorry bosssel and every one else. YOUR COMPLETELY RIGHT !
I'm being a blond again ! :lol: I am talking about foot and mouth, which is completely the wrong subject.
:dunce: :homer:
My deepest apologies every one :sorry:

bossel
02-05-04, 00:48
Well, no apologies needed, I think. Could happen to anyone.
I should have noticed it earlier, but was too focused on BSE.