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Maciamo
14-07-04, 01:59
Imagine you were in the jungle, say in North-East Australia, and a snake, which you recognised as one of the most poisonous in the world (eg. saipan) bit your hand. There is another person with you and he/she is certain that if you don't do something, you will die within a few minutes. There is no anti-venom where you are and the nearest inhabited area in several hours walk (you would die before, as walking stimulate blood circulation and accelerate the effects of poison on the body and brain).

Take the poll to choose what you would do.

jovial_jon
14-07-04, 02:09
I would chop off my hand, I wouldn't want the other person to have to do that - I wouldn't like to chop off someone else's hand so I would just do it myself...although, it is hard to tell when you've not had that kind of experience. Maybe in that situation I would do something different than what I thought I would.

RockLee
14-07-04, 02:38
I would probably die....but I would die trying at least!!!!



w00t post 300 !!! :D

Frank D. White
14-07-04, 02:40
we have had 2 lobstermen out on their boat alone.They got their hand and arm caught in the winch that pulls up the traps. They had to chop off a hand and one his arm, or bleed to death at sea alone. Both did it and got their boat back to shore to save thier lives. I hate to say it, but I think I would panic, go into shock, and die, before I could get up the nerve to cut?

Frank

:(

kirei_na_me
14-07-04, 02:41
I think I would ask the other person chop off my hand and hope I didn't go into shock.

RockLee
14-07-04, 02:42
You'll go in shock automaticly I think...unless you have steel nerves :relief:

Glenn
14-07-04, 02:47
I'd probably go into shock right after the bite, and not have time to consider my options! :blush: :okashii:

Elizabeth
14-07-04, 02:52
I wouldn't be in that situation to begin with....but what would you use to chop with exactly ? And where ?

kirei_na_me
14-07-04, 02:56
Good points, Elizabeth. Nor would I be in that situation.

And Glenn, I think the same might happen to me too. I think I would panic and faint when the snake bit me. Hmmmm...but then that might help the chopping off of the hand easier if I was passed out. That is, if the person I was with chose to chop it off. It would depend on who the person was.

Okay, okay...I'll stop rambling! :p

Frank D. White
14-07-04, 02:57
WOW, a woman with 3 balls!!

Frank

:D

Jean-Francois
14-07-04, 05:03
I will immediately chop my poisonous hand off with my good hand, but I won't throw it away. Just in case one day technology can help to put it back. If not, I will keep it as a ... don't-know-what.

Anyway, I won't let my friend do it if I can do it myself. What if I become poor one day and decide to sue my friend who saves my life?

Glenn
14-07-04, 05:09
Wow, that's a lot of thought that you've put into this, Jean-Francois. I guess you can afford to think about things like that if you survive the shock, unlike me. :blush:

jovial_jon
14-07-04, 05:09
Can you imagine what it'd be like to be the other person and to be asked to umm...'give them a hand' I suppose you could say. That would be pretty horrible.

One thing you could do with the hand is sew it to the top of your head so you look like one of those funky chickens with a mohican... :p

Mandylion
14-07-04, 06:08
Since it seems there is no way to save yourself - you'll bleed to death and or get gangreen assuming you can't call a helicopter and a tournaquit at the wrist is not going to solve anything - so I would probably wait to die (of course that assumes I had time to sit and think rationally like I did for this post).

This is truely one of those situations where you could run, but you would only die tired.

TimF
14-07-04, 06:45
Since it seems there is no way to save yourself - you'll bleed to death and or get gangreen assuming you can't call a helicopter and a tournaquit at the wrist is not going to solve anything - so I would probably wait to die (of course that assumes I had time to sit and think rationally like I did for this post).

This is truely one of those situations where you could run, but you would only die tired.

Well put Mandylion i was waiting for someone to say it. And besids Even if you run it only speeds up your heart rate which pumps the venom in you blood faster which in turn causes it to spread through the body.

Jean-Francois
14-07-04, 07:10
Since it seems there is no way to save yourself - you'll bleed to death and or get gangreen assuming you can't call a helicopter and a tournaquit at the wrist is not going to solve anything - so I would probably wait to die (of course that assumes I had time to sit and think rationally like I did for this post).


I still want to put up a fight.


Wow, that's a lot of thought that you've put into this, Jean-Francois. I guess you can afford to think about things like that if you survive the shock, unlike me.

It only takes me one minute altogether to make this decision and type it up … For me, it isn’t such a hard decision to make. I mean, the other option is DEATH, which bears the highest opportunity cost in this case. I can always kill myself later, but if I die I cannot “UNdie” again, can I???

Well, ever since I was a kid I was told over and over again to stay clam especially in front of any crisis. And one of the most important things I have learned from living in the United States is – Only the Paranoid Survives. The loss of a close friend whose body couldn’t be found in the rubbles of the World Trade Center helps strengthening this belief too.

So, whenever I am bored, I will ask myself questions like “ What am I going to do if somebody pulls a knife to my throat?’, “Should I climb out the widow if there is a fire?”, “Is it possible to kill myself first to avoid humiliation if I am caught by the terrorists?” & etc.

Off-topic:
One time a friend of mine went for an interview for the position of a stockbroker in Hong Kong. When she got to the fifth floor of the building where the interview was conducted, the room was already full of young applicants. The interviewer walked in and pointed at the widow, “If you want this job, jump off from here!” During the whole interview he only asked one question. “Who want to jump?”

Only two or four (can't remember) persons wanted the job bad enough to jump off the building (of course, there were safety measures) and one of them was my friend. Yes, it was an American brokerage firm. And yes, my friend got the job.


One thing you could do with the hand is sew it to the top of your head so you look like one of those funky chickens with a mohican...

I think a better option is to put it on ebay – Fresh Human Hand beaten by Exotic Jungle Snake (Caution: Eat it at your own risk).
Seems like there’re many collectors willing to pay high price for weird stuffs nowadays.

chiquiliquis
14-07-04, 09:09
I like the option where I take the machete and, with what's left of my life force, I chop the snake up into 20 raw bloody pieces. Then, I get a fire going with my friend and I feast on my enemy's scorched entrails. I die with the last laugh.

mad pierrot
14-07-04, 09:25
There is another person with you and he/she is certain that if you don't do something, you will die within a few minutes.

A few minutes is good enough for me.

:p

Foxtrot Uniform
14-07-04, 09:27
When a rabbit or other animals gets its leg trapped in something, they will immediatly chew it off to save their life. Because we are humans, we have ability to chose whether we would cut off our hand and live or not cut it off and die.

Anyway, I would rather die than live without my hand (I'm rather attached to it), so I would say something deeply philosophical to my friend (who would be weeping) and slowly die as dramatic music plays in the background.

CC1
14-07-04, 09:28
I chose the tournaquit...but only because I don't believe that cutting off the hand would actually help anything. The venom would in all likelyhood already be in your bloodstream. I have learned before that even though they do it in the movies you can't actually "suck out" the venom! :? So I guess I would take my chances. Now as Frank mentioned, if I were caught in a machine, as in his story I would probably chew my arm off if need be to survive! :relief: But in the case of the snake bite, I would probably apply a tournaquit just above the elbow and take my chances that way.

Bounty Hunter
14-07-04, 11:45
I would wait and die. :okashii:

I would rather die with my whole "Being".

Am ready for death anyway thats why i have chosen my lifestyle.

Arch
14-07-04, 12:02
I'd chop it off no problem , however i'd keep it as my glourious achievement !

RockLee
14-07-04, 13:17
Hmm after a good night sleep I think I would take all kinds of ANTI-VENOM stuff with me HAHAHAHA...so if a snake bit me I would be prepared...no hand to be chopped of :lol: or die of poisoning !!!

EscaFlowne
14-07-04, 13:21
WELL, I started out with both my hands..I'm dying with both my hands....just not yet. I would use the tournaquit, and believe me, my will to survive would get me to the place i need to be to heal myself. Im not dying! I haven't met silver angel yet!?!?!? :blush: :balloon:

RockLee
14-07-04, 13:23
hehe Esca...you womanizer !! :p

EscaFlowne
14-07-04, 13:26
[Points to Rocks AvA]

Waiting for my nose to become like yours...

[THERE WE GO......ahhhhhhhhh :balloon: ]

nekosasori
14-07-04, 13:49
I would be sucking out the venom after filling my mouth with saliva (to minimize absorption) and THEN putting on a tourniquet. I'd have asked my friend to call for/go for help and I'd only chop off my hand as a last resort (e.g. if I know how long the helicopter/ambulance with antivenom would take, based on monitoring my own symptoms for as long as I'm lucid).

Elizabeth
14-07-04, 16:30
Well put Mandylion i was waiting for someone to say it. And besids Even if you run it only speeds up your heart rate which pumps the venom in you blood faster which in turn causes it to spread through the body.
Although isn't amputation used to prevent gangrene ? Gangrene would actually be a reason I wouldn't use a tournaquit. So I can't say for sure what I'd do without knowing how long severed limbs can survive without bleeding to death and whether snakebite kits could be effective or not..... :p

TimF
14-07-04, 17:47
Although isn't amputation used to prevent gangrene ? Gangrene would actually be a reason I wouldn't use a tournaquit. So I can't say for sure what I'd do without knowing how long severed limbs can survive without bleeding to death and whether snakebite kits could be effective or not..... :p

I would agree about the gangrene thing if you already had it and you were being amputated at a hospital but choping off your hand in the boonies is only going to lead to you getting it. You will not be able to fight the infection especially with the long walk, It will set in quick. I took a wilderness survival class the sametime I took my hunters saftey course, they taught me how to deal with snake bites broken limbs lassarations etc. so i think i might know what to do in this situation. I mean i dont know alot about the flora and fawna of that reigon but the language of survival is universal so i think i could make it.

Elizabeth
14-07-04, 18:22
But from what I understand cutting off a limb is a viable first aid survival strategy, such as the sailors Frank mentioned or mountain climbers etc with frostbite. Plus when it is used for punishment or as an initiation rite -- do those people also have to get medical care immediately afterwards or is it just a matter of it spreading with movement ?

Anyway, I'm far from a wilderness guru I just remembered reading somewhere that snake bites can also lead to gangrene. In this case, you're pretty much doomed whichever way you decide to go. :(

Gaki
14-07-04, 23:00
I'd rather die, i need both my hands.

Frank D. White
15-07-04, 01:10
years ago there was a joke about two guys out in the desert(lifelong close friends). One gets bit on the buttocks low in the groin area. He says to his buddy , will you cut the X and suck the venom out? No, but I promise to be a good pallbearer for ya. Something like that? I heard later, you can't suck the venom out, and I felt better about letting my buddy die.

Frank

:D

Lina Inverse
15-07-04, 05:01
I'd bite the snake first! :D
Failing that, I would do the tourniquette - no chance I'm sacrificing my hand!

Ewok85
15-07-04, 11:09
Whoa, some people are going to die if it ever happens.

First rule of hiking/camping. PREPARE! The 6 P's; Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. If you're going out into an area like that you get malaria shots, take the common anti-venom, adequate First Aid kit, make sure you have some kind of decent comm's equipment and suitable clothing.

The cutting the hand off option in the case of a snake bite/spider bite would have to be quick. ACK! CHOP. Or aim for the elbow. A better option is to get a pressure bandage on the limb, splint it, apply an antivenom and call for help. Sucking it out will only kill you more surely.

Cutting your hand/arm/whatever off if stuck or trapped is another thing again.

Buddha Smoker
15-07-04, 13:57
I say...where's the beef...I mean knife? :D

RockLee
15-07-04, 14:26
beef......*drools*...yeah I looked for all kinds of information b4 I went actually...to prevent nasty situations! :-)

sky888
15-07-04, 16:50
I would probably die....but I would die trying at least!!!!


exact thoughts here! I will never be able to do it on my hands.. NEVER

King of Tokyo
16-07-04, 00:47
I would try my best to get to somewhere with anti-venom.. I just wouldn't wanna live one-handed.. it would suck so much.. lol.. so I'd either get lucky and live or die with pride and crawling my way to a hospital lol..

Hypertokyo5
16-07-04, 03:34
i would tie a tournequet around mym wrist(hand)actually mid arm below elbow, that why i wouldn't die off blood loss or shock, and have my friend lay some branches or something under me and drag me to the nearest place(even if we had to turn back). if there was a cliff to jump or a tree to climb, i would take the risk of my blood rushing. if when i got to the other side and i felt weaker due to the venom, then i would have the person cut my arm off...wow. i would do alot of stuff.

Mayura
16-07-04, 17:24
I would just sit there and wait till I die, maybe sing a song as I go along -.-... and if my friend pursuades me, I'll maybe do a tourniquet..

Say... you might also die by chopping of a hand, wouldn't you? Considering the amount of blood you'd loose... o.<

Hypertokyo5
17-07-04, 03:54
like i said......

Mayura
17-07-04, 03:58
But ne, wouldn't your blood still kind of flow... :que:

Hypertokyo5
17-07-04, 08:05
that's what the tournequet is for...you tie it so tight you pretty much cut the circulation off of your arm...(no blood flow) of course you will still bleed, but just not so much as gushing...(ew, that's a little graphic)

Kintaro
17-07-04, 13:42
This will sound totally perverted, but...

this is the pervert's way out. Ritual suicide preceded by oine final fap. Mutilating myself is something I wouldn't be able to tolerate as a half-assed job. Either enough to die, or not at all, so a hand chop is not an option.


Then again, elizabeth said it best. Don't go to areas with poison snakes.

Sinspawne
22-07-04, 11:42
What i would do is to apply a tourniquet some distance from the bite
(as close to the body as possible).
Then cut a long gash to bleed out some of the poison.
patch up and go wave my bleeding limb in the face of the nearest doctor/nurse/vet

PS. in the voting it says "tourniquet around my wrist"
should never use a tourniquet on a joint

Hamada
22-07-04, 19:38
I would wait and die ... to leave this "cruel sick" world -_-

Foxtrot Uniform
23-07-04, 19:49
According to my US armed forces survival book, when bitten by a snake, there is a 20% chance that the bite did not inject any poison (presuming that the snake was poisonous). But just in case, you should apply a tourniqet closer to your heart than where the bite is, but make sure the tourniqet is not too tight to prevet the arterial flow from being cut off. Two cut should be made (though this is advised against because you may be panicking and actually cause more harm) on the bite marks paralel to each other. The cuts should be about two inches wide and four inches deep. If a snake bite kit is available, then it should be used (sucks poison and blood out for you), but if it is not available suck it out yourself. Continue to suck for 15 minutes, and if you are okay then you'll live. Seek medical attention. (there was some more but I forgot the rest)

Personally, if there was someone else with you, I would think applying a tourniqet and having them carry you to the nearest medical facilty to keep your heart from beating too much and get some anti-venom. Don't forget to identify the snake and know which allergies you have to help the doctors.

Glenn
23-07-04, 19:57
The cuts should be about two inches wide and four inches deep.

Four inches deep?! That's really deep! I took off a bit of the tip of my left index finger on Saturday, but the cut wasn't any more than a couple of millimeters deep. Even so, that seemed to be enough to expose nerve endings, because it stung like hell everytime it touched something. Even today the replacement skin is still about a millimeter below the old skin. I couldn't imagine a four-inch-deep cut. That would inevitably require stitches, and almost it seems as though the cure is worse than the disease.

Foxtrot Uniform
23-07-04, 20:02
Four inches deep?!

D'oh!! Sorry, its acutally 1/2 inch wide and 1/4 inch deep! :p

Glenn
23-07-04, 21:20
Lol, yeah, that makes a big difference, eh? :D :D

dadako
28-07-04, 01:45
(men don't know inches.)

I would use the power of human spirit to clense my blood, firstly by meditating for a few miliseconds then pouncing on my weaker friend, ripping out thier heart and eating it in front of them, for extra blood to help me. Once the friend has collapsed in a lifeless heap of flesh and bone, I would seek the snake; upon finding I would eat him whole.

My digestion fluids would sample the snake's own anti venom and create a vaccine using pre installed biomatic hardware, which would then be re-routed to my heart and beat around my body at a steady 356 bpm. I would save this data for a syntetic anti venom that could be stored with my other chemical breakdown fliuds that I use for alcohol and ingested poisons.

After destroying my friends corpse by vomiting a highly effecient form of acid onto thier massed flesh, I would return to my base camp, swiftly, silently, leaping from tree to tree.

Foxtrot Uniform
28-07-04, 19:37
Very interesting Dadako. :D Seems a heck of a lot more efficient than using a tourniqet.

sbv0001
31-07-04, 06:35
No Joke: But I don´t know, what I would do in that situation. Why?
Assuming that I would be the same as I am now:
How should I know wether the snake was poisonous or not? Therefore, I would not be able to make a proper decision what to do......

But there are some other things to point at:
If the snake was one of the most poisonous - as maciamo wrote in his post - than there are two possibilities: the kind of the effect of the venom is neurotixic or haemotoxic.

In the first case the venom goes straight to the brain - therefore causing malfunctions of the brain, after that the lungs won´t work anymore.
No chance to make some well thought decisions.......

In the second case the snakebite and the injection of the venom would result in pain bigger than getting burned third degree!!! This in most cases would immediatly lead to a shock......
Again: No chance to make some well thought decisions.......

Howto? Practical thoughts:
How to cut of the limb?
AFAIK you would not have the chance to use a knife - even it is a big one......
Some heavier equipment must be used for this task - machete, sword or some kind of an axe......
I don´t want go further in this - but IMHO the pain you will bear in that moment will be bigger than any pain you had expierienced before......

Summary:
I´m sure that not more than 10% of all (in snakebits unexperienced) posters here would survive this......
10 to 60 seconds to make a proper decision isn´t pretty much time, isn´t it????

Beware the taipan!
Michael ;-)

Legato
13-08-04, 08:52
First I hope the bite was on my left hand because I don't think I would be able to make a clear cut in my arm with my clumsy left hand of mine. So assuming the bite is on the left hand and that I have something appropriate to cut a hand, I would cut my arm a few inches above the bite then cut my friend's head and then his hand using my arm as a reference for the lenght. That being done I would do what I can not to die and preserve my replacement hand and go to somewhere where they can fix me.
But since it's very unlikely that I would do such a thing I would probably lay down, if not in too much pain with demonic seizure, and wait; who knows maybe my friend would try something stupid to save me and succeed in that case and if I loose my hand I would just blame him for not letting me die and finally commit suicide.
Of course of all the above has a probability of happening just next to zero and since the starting situation of being in the jungle (especially me, I hate hot, humid climate) and bitten by a snake is even less probable I would estimate the final probability at about 0.0000000000001
So my choice: wait and die

Miss_apollo7
21-09-04, 15:20
First quickly suck most of poison out, and then chop off my hand if I was sure I was going to survive...(and hope it is my left hand), and stop the bleeding and have myself tonz of alcohol to stop the pain. :D
Whiskey would be preferred and vodka with orange juice in the jungle if possible!

This reminds me of a guy who chopped off his own arm with a pocket knife in order to survive, as he got stuck between two cliffs.



Aron Ralston, after being trapped with his arm under a rock for five days, decided that if he did not get free he would die.

Using his pocketknife, he amputated his arm below the elbow, put on a tourniquet and administered first- aid. He then rigged anchors and fixed a rope to rappel to the floor of Blue John Canyon.

The whole story of Aron Ralston:
http://hike.mountainzone.com/2003/news/html/030502_amputate-arm.html

Frank D. White
09-10-04, 03:16
once or twice a year a fisherman hacks off his hand or arm while alone at sea. They use winchs to haul nets and traps and get caught in them. I guess if you don't want to bleed to death slowly you have to do it; but I'm not sure I could do it?

Frank

:(

Melkor
09-10-04, 23:46
Questions like these are really hard to answer. I said that I'd cut my hand off, but in reality, I have no idea what I'd do.

lexico
07-03-05, 03:22
Weighing my chances of death and survival, I would logically assume that death is more likely.
I would dread the thought of losing my best friend who's served me well for all those years; I would not be me without it.
Seeing that I have maybe 10 minutes more to live, I'd ask for a laptop and get on-line.
I'd log on to the forum, and write my epithet~obituary in the introductions forum so you guys can respond to the thread.
Better be good posts or I'll come back to haunt you with ghostly ghastly snappy scary counterposts!! :evil:

Index
07-03-05, 08:11
I was listening to an interview recently with a guy who got his hand stuck behind a boulder after it fell on him. He tried to chip the rock away first with his pocketknife but it was futile, so after three days of standing there and panicking he decided to cut his hand off. The problem was that he'd made the knife blunt on the boulder, so even though he'd cut through the muscle, sinew and other soft tissue, he couldn't get through the bone. This resulted in another day of panic, as one would imagine, until he realized that he could simply break the bone at this point, which he promptly did. He then picked up the arm and went home, though unfortunately they couldn't sew it back on, so he has a prosthesis.

lexico
07-03-05, 10:28
Mel Gibson in Mad Max handcuffs a villain, one of the murderers of his wife and child, to an overturned car about to explode. A hacksaw is given, the blade just strong enough to cut thru the wrist but not the handcuff. Mad Max walks away and soon enough an explosion is heard. :20:

Moral: If you love your wrist, don't go around killing people.

Mycernius
07-03-05, 12:14
Tourniquet sounds like the best answer. If it a very poisonous snake. by the time you get around to cutting your hand off the vemon is already above the wrist. You would be in a panic so the faster heartbeat would make sure the the vemon spreads quickly. There was a report a bout a year back of some australian who got several bites of a sea snake. He survived, but he was several hours away from help. I think the best one I've heard was of some prat in the US. He was drunk and had a bag full of rattlesnake. To prove how hard (See stupid) he was he put his hand in the bag several times and got bitten everytime. He did survive, but the doctor had to amputate the arm.

Jungle Boy
07-03-05, 12:56
If you got bit by a taipan chopping your hand off would do absolutely no good because within few seconds of the snake biting you the venom would have worked its way into your system and within 2 mins you would be dead regardless if you cut your hand off or not.

So I guess I would just die if there was no help around because the inland taipan is the most dangerous snake in the world due to the large amount of venom in injects and the damage the venom does to it's victem.

enix_fan
07-03-05, 23:42
well it depends no which hand...if it was my left hand I'd chop it off...if it was my right hand I'll do the tournaquit!

St Delcambre
16-12-10, 10:55
If I knew having my hand chopped off was the ONLY way for survival and the outcome guaranteed I would continue to live on (and not die of infection) then the decision would be pretty easy: I would surely elect to have my hand chopped off. It sure beats the alternative in my opinion (which would be death.) However, the reality of extreme pain in such a situation would be something to consider, so I'd prefer for the other person to do it for me. Chopping one's own hand off would be slow, clumsy, and excruciating. I would sympathize with having to ask the other person to do it for me because I'm sure it would be psychologically traumatic for him/her but I would explain that his/her being able to perform the task with two able hands could at least speed up the process and shorten my suffering. I apologize if this explanation is a bit graphic but I find it's very logical.

himagain
31-10-11, 03:22
I would lie down and meditate. If of course, the venom did not kill instantly. I would still all my bodily functions
to as low a rate by meditating as I could. I am sure that I would become very ill but I would try to keep breathing.
If I drifted into death I would at least have a whole body to bury.

LeBrok
31-10-11, 07:29
If I drifted into death I would at least have a whole body to bury.

Ah, you are the one who wants to look handsome even in a coffin. :)
I would rather have people admire my beautiful urn, than to look at my dead body, with or without my hand regardless.

himagain
29-01-12, 03:16
Actually, I too prefer cremation. Still, with a whole body to incinerate.

Power
11-02-14, 19:15
yes i think so