Celtic - Serbian parallels

[iapetoc]

Interesting Dagne, Boyar might be old celtic title/world after all.
Looks like it has IE origin, boi, boy, battle. In slavic battle - bitva, fight - buika, go to fight- do boiu. In many instances b changed to V, and we have many words like war-voina, soldier-voiak, fighting-valka. (I used english-phonetics more than correct polish spelling .

nope it is not IE Sherif and Boyar or Bollan is Turkish words,
Sherif means chiftain, and boyar means guardian,
in fact boyar means 'tough quy' i agree with dagne,
I don't know if avars or others,

 

[iapetoc]

I think you are fishing too much , All i read was that these are original slavic people
main slavs = Russia
western slavs = Poles
Southern slavs = Bulgars

Croats, serbs, slovenes, bosnians, montenegrians etc etc etc are still trying to define if they are slavs originally or not.

In regards to your veneti theory, sorry to say but the name Veneti was a Roman invented word from VENETUS which means a blue-green clour , the colour of the sea, they gave this name to many areas. latest I found was
Veniatia (Vinhais)Venetii (Sacred Salmon People)in Portugal

The adraitic veneti was a small tribe illyrian tribe surrounded by celtic people in the eastern part of veneto - the Brixii and the Euganei ( non celtic) and in the friuli area, by the carni.
I can give you all the tribes that spoke venetic but they where not veneti

In celtic tales the veneti where said to be
Veneti (Old Ones): situla at Cadore: Venetic: eik goltanos doto louderai kanei
Goltanos [The One-Eyed One] sacrificed this for the virgin Kanei [The Powerful]

Bulgars comes the balkars, Non slavic people,
(although bulgaria is 'slavic' speaking that is why many try to connect or reconstruct thracian toward Baltic

Croats and serbs is another story,

we must not forget the avars,
Croatia is inner Hrvati Hrbt is after Avars tribal name,
Balkars were not slavic (asparouch) they are connected with other non Slavic nations

on the other hand Hrbt and Srb share almost same language!!!!!!!

and serbians have more domestic DNA while Croatians bigger (double) R1a from others,

the case is complex, we miss many Avars,
example Cumans who live in south Serbia and Fyrom Kumanovo and also in Romania etc are none Slavic, but today speak Slavic or romanian and their language is lost?

 

[iapetoc]

Any info on this celtic tribe in Pannonia?
Apulli (Apple People of Apollo) [Latin: Pannonii] or
Arravisci / Eravisci (Snowdrop People) or
Cotini (Grain People)

The Cenomani (Clear Water People) was situated on the border of Lombardy and Veneto , they where around for a while.

The Boii was south of the Po river in Bologna as you say. Wiki says they where in Italy in 390BC, then went to the danube and later settled in Silesia Poland

yes apulia Romania Daci people

 

[Taranis]

Any info on this celtic tribe in Pannonia?
Apulli (Apple People of Apollo) [Latin: Pannonii] or
Arravisci / Eravisci (Snowdrop People) or
Cotini (Grain People)

The Cenomani (Clear Water People) was situated on the border of Lombardy and Veneto , they where around for a while.

"Apple people of Apollo"?!? Where are you taking these "etymologies" from?! They are complete nonsense! etrified:

The Boii was south of the Po river in Bologna as you say. Wiki says they where in Italy in 390BC,...

This is correct, but...

...then went to the danube and later settled in Silesia Poland

... this is not. Yes, a branch of them went into Italy. But the Boii on the Danube were a separate branch. Also, Wikipedia states this nowhere, even it is very clear that those were different branches.

 

[zanipolo]

"Apple people of Apollo"?!? Where are you taking these "etymologies" from?! They are complete nonsense! etrified:


.

Before I reveal the site, how accurate are these

Seni (Senj) Senones
Sava River Sequsiani
Pannonia Secunda (Coastal Dacia) Dacii/Thracii
Dubrovnik Dumonii / Domnanii
Swabia Aedui Baiocasses
Bregenz & Brenner Brigantes
Gati (Sankt Stefan im Gailtal) Cath [Latin: Quadi Suevi]

actually gati should be gatti which was a celti-illyric name for Raeti

 

[Taranis]

Before I reveal the site, how accurate are these

Seni (Senj) Senones
Sava River Sequsiani
Pannonia Secunda (Coastal Dacia) Dacii/Thracii
Dubrovnik Dumonii / Domnanii
Swabia Aedui Baiocasses
Bregenz & Brenner Brigantes
Gati (Sankt Stefan im Gailtal) Cath [Latin: Quadi Suevi]

actually gati should be gatti which was a celti-illyric name for Raeti

In a nutshell, this looks like 90% as complete nonsense. There were no Senones or Dumnoni in Croatia, for starters. Also, in a different kind of crazy is that the original name of "Dubrovnik" was actually "Ragusa".

I also don't see how anybody would make the connection between Swabia, the Baiocasses and the Aedui. You can't just randomly mention tribes and regions out of context and claim they are related, can you?!

The only thing that I sparked there that is actually accurate: Bregenz (Brigantion) was actually the main town of the Vindelician Briganti.

Besides, I'm totally clueless what you're arguing here, anyways.

 

[zanipolo]

In a nutshell, this looks like 90% as complete nonsense. There were no Senones or Dumnoni in Croatia, for starters. Also, in a different kind of crazy is that the original name of "Dubrovnik" was actually "Ragusa".

I also don't see how anybody would make the connection between Swabia, the Baiocasses and the Aedui. You can't just randomly mention tribes and regions out of context and claim they are related, can you?!

The only thing that I sparked there that is actually accurate: Bregenz (Brigantion) was actually the main town of the Vindelician Briganti.

Besides, I'm totally clueless what you're arguing here, anyways.

i was wanting to know the accuracy of this link
http://celticowboy.com/appv.htm

because the map of the cisapine gauls in italy incorporated the Boii of Bologna.

There are other maps of england, france, ireland, Spain etc etc showing celtic tribes , but I was interested as per the recent Boii discussion on the quadi tribe that destroyed the boii in bohemia.

note: I do know about the republic of ragusa and thats why i used it.

 

[Taranis]

i was wanting to know the accuracy of this link
http://celticowboy.com/appv.htm

because the map of the cisapine gauls in italy incorporated the Boii of Bologna.

There are other maps of england, france, ireland, Spain etc etc showing celtic tribes , but I was interested as per the recent Boii discussion on the quadi tribe that destroyed the boii in bohemia.

note: I do know about the republic of ragusa and thats why i used it.

Oh my god... there is so much nonsense in there I don't know where to start. Whoever this is, he has zero understanding of linguistics. etrified:

Let me take a few examples though which in particular caught my eyes:

"Atrebates" he gives as "bear people", while in fact the name means "inhabitants".

"Arverni" - he gives as "seed people", while in fact it means "upon-alders".

"Biturges" (sic - actually "Bituriges") he gives as "sacred tree people", while in fact the name means "world kings".

"Tectosages" - he gives as "flowing water people", while in fact it means "property-claimers"

So, as you can see, it's complete nonsense. There is also an awful number of overtly non-Celtic tribes (I've noticed Iberian, Germanic, Dacian, Illyrian and Italic tribes in there... etrified: )

 

[iapetoc]

Well, this is certainly a possibility. The reason I remain sceptical of that is the time frame. When could they have arrived/left? And, I wouldn't necessarily think Bavaria (there is, of course, also the question about the origin of the Bavarians themselves at that) but more probably Bohemia. Specifically because the Bavarians ("Baiovarii") themselves claimed to be from Bohemia originally.



What I wonder on is what the Slavic usage of "white" there meant. But yes, it would seem very likely that the Serbs and the Croats travelled in unison.



The Celtic tribal name is generally understood as derived from the Celtic word for "cattle" (thereby, possibly in the sense of "cattle owner"). Cognates even exist in modern Celtic languages (Irish "Bó" - "cow", Welsh "Buwch" - "cow", Breton "Buoc'h" - "cow").

white is west
in order some to understand the horizon gave colours, so white is west, you find the simmilarity in a non slavic language
in fact that is why I believe that Getae or thracians were not Slavic but towards germanic or Celtic,

for example I give name west A a country that according the other take it as ves or wet so gives hes word wet bella A or Bes A (vesarabia, Bellarusia)

That is explain with german language , cpmpare water and wasser the s-t

so west or ves or wes with weiss becomes in slavic incomers Bella
weiss serbia = Bella serbia


(Now do understand that Daci was Getae and not Baltic or thracians were celto-germani
while thracians were skudet ->skudra
that romanian -au is after a germanic -au after an older dacothracian -au
and not after the Balto-slavonization -ava)



Now about tolisto you connected with milk,
there is a word wηich might give another meaning
Greek ειδυλιχιος Dolico Doliche
italian Dolce
English Doll

or a toponymic like thule?

compare the extract with Grekk ευβοια

 

[how yes no 2]

ancient authors suggest that word German meant "seed" and was used to denote original Celts.... Josephus is sure that original Celts are Cimmerians/Cappadocians....Strabo records Cappadocians as whiteSyrians...additional reason to argue original Celts were I2 people is for instance lack of R1b in north Africa while I2a1 is widely present, while Celts are recorded to live in Africa, Asia and Europe...who are they in north Africa if not Garamantes, advanced civilization that with irrigation systems turned Sahara into agricultural area, whose capital Germa is near town Seba?

You can't be seriously claiming this nonsense, can you?!? etrified:

As far as the Celtic-speaking people got (from the Algarve to Anatolia), there were no Celts in Africa. Also, I2a1 certainly isn't "widely resent", neither is R1b completely lacking. Stop making up such stuff.

you keep bragging with your ignorance mr. teacher wanna be...

138 Few nations have wandered so far and wide as the Galatæ. We meet with them in Europe, Asia, and Africa, under the various names of Galatæ Galatians, Gauls, and Kelts. Galatia, in Asia Minor, was settled by one of these hordes.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...99.01.0239:book=1:chapter=3&highlight=galatia

now tell me where is native Celtic R1b in Africa? zero...
but there is plenty of native I2a1 all around north Africa....
I am convinced these I2a1 people were Garamantes and as other Gomer ( Cimmerian ) derived people were original Celts...

so, there is your answer to who were original Celts...

they were I2 people - Cimmerians/Gomer as indicated by Josephus, and as also guessed by several roman historians who were convinced that German (word derived from Gomer) is a name of original Celts....

point is there were several branches of I2...
only one of them I2b is related to people we now call Germanic...
but all I2 are Cimmerians or Gomer in origin...

I2a2 are east branch and they later became known as Serians/Zeruiani...and today their tribal names and genetic origin is partly preserved in Serbs, Kurds,Sarbans...
I2a1 is south branch and gave tribal name such as Sardinians...

I think Sherdana and Scordisci as east branch were I2a2
but they could have also have been I2a1...

 

[zanipolo]

as per text and map , below
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...resnum=10&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

it would seem there where more than just boii tribe in italy, there where others further south on the adriatic sea which where celtic.

In regards to the Taurisci, they seem to be the main tribe of the minor celtic tribe in pannonia. This map must be from around 300BC

 

[how yes no 2]

white is west

correct

in order some to understand the horizon gave colours, so white is west, you find the simmilarity in a non slavic language
in fact that is why I believe that Getae or thracians were not Slavic but towards germanic or Celtic,

for example I give name west A a country that according the other take it as ves or wet so gives hes word wet bella A or Bes A (vesarabia, Bellarusia)

That is explain with german language , cpmpare water and wasser the s-t

so west or ves or wes with weiss becomes in slavic incomers Bella
weiss serbia = Bella serbia

you have no clue of origin though...
it has nothing to do with linguistics...

all steppe people use colors to designate sides of the world
white- west, black -north, red- south, yellow -east...
hence names such as Black sea, red sea....

it is an ancient system...
really ancient... and widespread...

I think this was originally related to colors of races....but it is a bit mixed up... black (north) and red (south) are flipped....perhaps due to e.g. pole shift or climate changes?

(Now do understand that Daci was Getae and not Baltic or thracians were celto-germani
while thracians were skudet ->skudra
that romanian -au is after a germanic -au after an older dacothracian -au
and not after the Balto-slavonization -ava)

-au and -ava are essentially same suffix...
in Slavic Danube= Dunav, but other rivers Morava, Sava,...
-ava is ending for feminine noun, -av for male noun...

Dunav is male river as it is much larger than female rivers...

 

[zanipolo]

you keep bragging with your ignorance mr. teacher wanna be...


http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...99.01.0239:book=1:chapter=3&highlight=galatia

now tell me where is native Celtic R1b in Africa? zero...
but there is plenty of native I2a1 all around north Africa....
I am convinced these I2a1 people were Garamantes and as other Gomer ( Cimmerian ) derived people were original Celts...

so, there is your answer to who were original Celts...

they were I2 people - Cimmerians/Gomer as indicated by Josephus, and as also guessed by several roman historians who were convinced that German (word derived from Gomer) is a name of original Celts....

point is there were several branches of I2...
only one of them I2b is related to people we now call Germanic...
but all I2 are Cimmerians or Gomer in origin...

I2a2 are east branch and they later became known as Serians/Zeruiani...and today their tribal names and genetic origin is partly preserved in Serbs, Kurds,Sarbans...
I2a1 is south branch and gave tribal name such as Sardinians...

I think Sherdana and Scordisci as east branch were I2a2
but they could have also have been I2a1...

I2a1 in africa was from the vandals/visigoths

There is also some I2a1 in sicily and puglia due to the normans , who where originally norse men from norway who settled and conquered Normandy france,
After the french conquest , they went to sicily, after this they went to England , hasting 1066

 

[iapetoc]

correct


you have no clue of origin though...
it has nothing to do with linguistics...

all steppe people use colors to designate sides of the world
white- west, black -north, red- south, yellow -east...
hence names such as Black sea, red sea....

it is an ancient system...
really ancient... and widespread...

I think this was originally related to colors of races....but it is a bit mixed up... black (north) and red (south) are flipped....perhaps due to e.g. pole shift or climate changes?



-au and -ava are essentially same suffix...
in Slavic Danube= Dunav, but other rivers Morava, Sava,...
-ava is ending for feminine noun, -av for male noun...

Dunav is male river as it is much larger than female rivers...

try to compare it with German austrian Donau -au
also with Savus

All rivers were male deities and had a female protector.

now about North try to compare it with Noir noire and Nord
the yellow and the red????
red sea is after an red algae that is growing
yellow? ?
besides if slavic system was North = black then Black sea sould not be black but red os yellow according place of slavic people, cause they could name black a sea that was south or west or east of them.

Black sea comes the persian axain (dark) greek axein or oxyn means rust (dark colour) and thracian-Vrygian axan or ascan, the euxinus from axeinus became after Sinope colony.
not north sea

as you see you are wrong about the system
it is a wrong hear from Slavic people, not a ancient system

 

[Taranis]

you keep bragging with your ignorance mr. teacher wanna be...

I'm not ignorant. I'm sticking to facts, not fantasy.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...99.01.0239:book=1:chapter=3&highlight=galatia

You're interpreting too much in this. When Strabo says that the Greeks encountered Celts on every continent doesn't mean that Celtic tribes settled on every continent. In fact, there's a far more plausible explanation for this: Galatian mercenaries operated in the entire eastern Mediterranean and provided service to the basically all of the Hellenistic sucessor kingdoms in the region, including at the court of the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt. There's no need for a mythic Celtic kingdom in North Africa for which there is zero evidence.

now tell me where is native Celtic R1b in Africa? zero...
but there is plenty of native I2a1 all around north Africa....
I am convinced these I2a1 people were Garamantes and as other Gomer ( Cimmerian ) derived people were original Celts...

The Garamantes were Berbers. Period. End of story. :useless:

 

[how yes no 2]

try to compare it with German austrian Donau -au
also with Savus

All rivers were male deities and had a female protector.

Danube is special....it played a role of natural frontier....
I can imagine that Dun in Dun-av probably has same origin as -dun in Celtic towns...
kind of fortress thing...
river Don might be the same...

but rivers like Morava, Sava are brought in relation with certain mythological beings...

Sava is by some related to Sabazios \
actually, I read that Sava = Sabazios is big tributary of Danube(Zeus)

Morava is name of key river and some small rivers in both Czech republic and Serbia...origin of name is not clear...
more = sea
sanskrit mora = death
Slavic mora = nightmare, deamon,
mora = witch (serbian church slavic), delusion (proto-Slavic)
Morana = godess of winter and death

however, Morana was, from obvious reasons, one of the least popular among gods of Slavic mythology...

so, river Morava may be not after her....

red sea is after an red algae that is growing

no, its not...
that is later interpretation because original meaning was lost...
but most color place names were about sides of the worlds...

Belarus = white Russians = west Russians

besides if slavic system was North = black then Black sea sould not be black but red os yellow according place of slavic people, cause they could name black a sea that was south or west or east of them.

unless Slavs originally lived more south than you think...
e.g. in Thrace

as explained in Russian primary chronicle...

as you see you are wrong about the system
it is a wrong hear from Slavic people, not a ancient system

keep dreaming...
this is well known system...
iranian peoples have it as well
think even Chinese...

 

[how yes no 2]

You're interpreting too much in this. When Strabo says that the Greeks encountered Celts on every continent doesn't mean that Celtic tribes settled on every continent. In fact, there's a far more plausible explanation for this: Galatian mercenaries operated in the entire eastern Mediterranean and provided service to the basically all of the Hellenistic sucessor kingdoms in the region, including at the court of the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt. There's no need for a mythic Celtic kingdom in North Africa for which there is zero evidence.

when he speaks of meeting with them in europe, Africa and Asia
he clearly speaks of nations wandering not about individuals wandering....
nations wandering implies settlement...

The Garamantes were Berbers. Period. End of story. :useless:

your timeline is inversed....
Berbers partly origin from Garamantes...

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

@ how yes no
You can't be serious. There is no evidence of Celticity in Serbia. The highest confirmed levels of Celtic settlement are in Western Europe - France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and parts of England, followed by the Alpine region.

 

[zanipolo]

white is west
in order some to understand the horizon gave colours, so white is west, you find the simmilarity in a non slavic language
in fact that is why I believe that Getae or thracians were not Slavic but towards germanic or Celtic,

for example I give name west A a country that according the other take it as ves or wet so gives hes word wet bella A or Bes A (vesarabia, Bellarusia)

That is explain with german language , cpmpare water and wasser the s-t

so west or ves or wes with weiss becomes in slavic incomers Bella
weiss serbia = Bella serbia


(Now do understand that Daci was Getae and not Baltic or thracians were celto-germani
while thracians were skudet ->skudra
that romanian -au is after a germanic -au after an older dacothracian -au
and not after the Balto-slavonization -ava)



Now about tolisto you connected with milk,
there is a word wηich might give another meaning
Greek ειδυλιχιος Dolico Doliche
italian Dolce
English Doll

compare the extract with Grekk ευβοια

bella? what does this mean.

In latin the word bellum is war , so Bellum Pannonicum is war in pannonia against the illyrians 15BC,
ante = before .
The US congress befroe the american civil war still used the phase Antebellum = before the war ( us civil war)

Si vis pacem, para bellum is a Latin adage translated as, "If you wish for peace, prepare for war"

 

[how yes no 2]

@ how yes no
You can't be serious. There is no evidence of Celticity in Serbia. The highest confirmed levels of Celtic settlement are in Western Europe - France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and parts of England, followed by the Alpine region.

before falling under Roman empire Serbia was settled by Celtic Scordisci
I argue that part of those people moved up the Danube to Bohemia, from where in 6th century they came back Slavicized (unless they were Slavic(ized) even before)...

only historic source speaking of arrival of modern Serbs to Balkan says they came from land they call in own language Boika where they were called "white". Description of Boika being beyond Turkia (= Hungary of today) and neighbouring Frankia and white Croatia only maps land of Boii (hence Boika) that is Bohemia/Bavaria)..the historic source also clearly says that it is the location where they have also originally dwellt...

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3al...istrando imperio&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q&f=false

that is also clear from genetics...
I2a2 has local island of elevated frequences in Bohemia (2-3 times larger than in the rest of Czech republic) and it has higher molecular diversity in Bohemia and Serb populated lands

Bohemia is also perfect place to be source of all I2, as I2a1 is found south of it, I2b north of it, and I2a2 east of it...

btw. Scordisci spread to Serbia roughly from Bohemia area....
their zone of influence was along Danube from Bohemia to Greece...

from area of Scordisci came into Thrace and Asia minor Celtic Serdi who later became Thracian...
Serdi is in my opinion just Thracian version of tribal name Scordisci...

Rusi, Srbi, Česi are Slavic tribal names (Russians, Serbs, Czechs)
thus, suffix -i as in Serdi, while Serdi+ celtic ending -isci = Serdisci

now note that Scordisci has "Sc" in the same as Sclaveni was a way to write Slavs (Sloveni in slavic languages)
thus, already obvious logic gives Scordisci->Sordisci->Sordi.... taken into account that they are Celtic and enter Thrace from area of Celtic Scordisci it is clear that Serdi are thracianized version of tribal name Scordisci

Thracians = russians same as Thyrsenians is used for Rasena (Etruscans)