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By North Iraqis I meant Assyrians, Iraqi Jews... Kurds are more Iranic-Caucasian with all that Gedrosia and also some North Euro linked to ANE.
Another teasar from authors with 34 (6300 BC)Neolithic Western Anatolian genomes: Close genetic relationship of Neolithic Anatolians to early European farmers:
Capra,
As I've said before, Central Anatolian Neolithic farmers have been tested and they're no different from Western Anatolian Neolithic farmers.
I don't think Fire-Haired has any agenda. People may just be writing that because of the wording of the abstract.
I didn't meant to accuse him of an agenda in this case. I simply wanted to clarify a few things, since I still often see some people talking about "West Anatolian farmers" in this sence as if they got their WHG from Balkans/Greece.
As to the following, we agree:
As to the other part of your comment, I'm totally open to whatever the ancient dna will show. I would add, however, what I said to someone else just recently. It doesn't matter when certain genetic material entered your family or "ethnic" line, or with what particular culture. It's the same genes. So, I disagree that the EEF, for example, or more precisely the early Near Eastern farmer ancestry somehow became "different" because it was packaged with different genes at different times. As Lazaridis pointed out, all the many migrations into Europe and within Europe were just different combinations, in different proportions, of the same basic ancient populations. Many of the distinctions that get made just smack to me of unattractive "isms" of one sort or another. I'll leave it at that.
I didn't meant to accuse him of an agenda in this case. I simply wanted to clarify a few things, since I still often see some people talking about "West Anatolian farmers" in this sence as if they got their WHG from Balkans/Greece.
That's the question we asked too, and now wait for more results. I'm betting for mostly I2a, the dominant WHG's Y. Though we should see other Mesolithic hgs already found through Europe.We study 1.2 million genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphisms on a sample of
26 Neolithic individuals (~6,300 years BCE) from northwestern Anatolia . Our analysis
reveals a homogeneous population that was genetically similar to early farmers
from Europe (FST=0.004±0.0003 and frequency of 60% of Y-chromosome haplogroup
G2a). We model Early Neolithic farmers from central Europe and Iberia as a
genetic mixture of ~90% Anatolians and ~10% European hunter-gatherers, suggesting
little influence by Mesolithic Europeans prior to the dispersal of European farmers
into the interior of the continent. Neolithic Anatolians differ from all present-day
populations of western Asia, suggesting genetic changes have occurred in parts of
this region since the Neolithic period. We suggest that the language spoken by the
homogeneous Anatolian-European Neolithic farmers is unlikely to have been the
same as that spoken by the Yamnaya steppe pastoralists whose ancestry was derived
from eastern Europe and a different population from the Caucasus/Near East
[Haak et al. 2015], and discuss implications for alternative models of Indo-European
dispersals.this abstract passed by Anthrogenica speaks of 60% Y-G2a in West Anatolia: who knows which others Y haplos were there, it would be interetsing I suppose!
From the Lazaridis presentation thanks to Razib Khan's tweets:
EEF were homogeneous
Common source of EEF was Anatolia based on archaeology.
mtDNA similar to EEF. Y mostly G2a2. They also had J2 H and I at low frequency, and some C1 too
Anatolian neolithic is close to EEF on pca, but EEF shifted toward WHG
Anatolian neolithic is different from modern Anatolian and SE europe populations.
Indo-european steppe = EHG + near eastern. New data shows Eneolithic samara was 75% EHG ancestry plus 25% "armenian" 5,200 to 4,000 BCE
Poltavka people 3000 to 2200 BC basically like Yamnaya, 50% EHG and 50% armenian-like.
Srubnaya was different... 2/3 yamnaya 1/3 middle neolithic European
Yamnaya/poltavka went from R1b to R1a in the Srubnaya period. z93 group found on bronze age steppe samara
There was back migration of EEF to the steppe after the initial yamnaya migration. (This one I don't get.)
mtDNA similar to EEF. Y mostly G2a2. They also had J2 H and I at low frequency, and some C1 too
Anatolian neolithic is different from modern Anatolian and SE europe populations.
From the Lazaridis presentation thanks to Razib Khan's tweets:
EEF were homogeneous
Common source of EEF was Anatolia based on archaeology.
mtDNA similar to EEF. Y mostly G2a2. They also had J2 H and I at low frequency, and some C1 too
Anatolian neolithic is close to EEF on pca, but EEF shifted toward WHG
Anatolian neolithic is different from modern Anatolian and SE europe populations.
Indo-european steppe = EHG + near eastern. New data shows Eneolithic samara was 75% EHG ancestry plus 25% "armenian" 5,200 to 4,000 BCE
Poltavka people 3000 to 2200 BC basically like Yamnaya, 50% EHG and 50% armenian-like.
Srubnaya was different... 2/3 yamnaya 1/3 middle neolithic European
Yamnaya/poltavka went from R1b to R1a in the Srubnaya period. z93 group found on bronze age steppe samara
There was back migration of EEF to the steppe after the initial yamnaya migration. (This one I don't get.)
Another thing, R1a z93 found in Yamna, and going by the tweets it seems like from an EEF(Neolithic) culture (Most likely Cucuteni-tripolye). Those guys seem to be the ancestors of both Sintashta and Corded Ware. As some people have speculated Corded Ware isn't the ancestor of Sintashta but both derive from the same source.
Fire Haired14;468231]Same as Early Neolithic Y DNA. Not suprised by I/C1, because WHGs just like Loschbour lived in Anatolia. BTW, G2a2 is the same type of G2a found in EEF. And, I'm interested in what type of J2 it was. "Balkan" J2b2?
And yesterday we were told an EEF-type people moved into Africa from SW Asia less than 4500 yo. Simplistic thinking would say Steppe people and a mystery West Asian pop moved into Near East and SE Europe. It might be that simple. In this abstract they say a new more Near Eastern or Caucasus people migrated to Anatolia in the Late Neolithic.
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