Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Southpaw]

P.s. Happy Independence Day, independent guy. Te ashtufte shkau listen e dasmes.

He was making lightweight jokes, this is very disgusting from your side, you are a complete retard writing this.

 

[Dushman]

He was making lightweight jokes, this is very disgusting from your side, you are a complete retard writing this.

I don’t care about your Ottoman lightweight jokes. What bothers me as an Albanian is your recent separatist feelings and behaviour.

Our blood wasn’t spilled so that Albanian-hating Ottomans benefit from it and try to create a new identity. I’m with the Albanians of Kosovo not some Turkish loving Kosovans.

 

[torzio]

I don’t care about your Ottoman lightweight jokes. What bothers me as an Albanian is your recent separatist feelings and behaviour.

Our blood wasn’t spilled so that Albanian-hating Ottomans benefit from it and try to create a new identity. I’m with the Albanians of Kosovo not some Turkish loving Kosovans.

If you are so so so , Nationalistic , then DNA is not for you to follow because the results will not be to your liking.

 

[Fustan]

1. Içik is Gheg not Tosk. Ignorance spotted.
2. It’s penxhere not pencere. We all say dritare not penxhere. Ignorance spotted.
3. What’s the “Dardanian” word for bosh?
4. The weird ‘r’ sound is again Gheg, Tosk has a “strong” ‘r’. Ignorance spotted.
5. Your accent is extremely ugly, unpleasant, and un-Albanian to all of us from Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and Greece. The only exception is the mountainous Western Kosovo which is pure Albanian.

Efforts to clean the Albanian language from Turkish loans and other linguistic borrowings have started from the Renaissance period and continue even today. Concentration of attention for cleaning Albanian language from “Turkishness” is visible especially in the Gheg dialect, which has the most of these Turkish word and not only.


References


Kostallari,Adriarik; Rreth depërtimit të turqizmave në gjuhën shqipe gjatë shekujve XVII XVIII, Studime mbileksikun dhe mbi formimin e fjalëve në gjuhën shqipe, V.III, fq.98

Latifi,Lindita;(2006), Mbi huazimet turke në gjuhën shqipe, krahasuar me gjuhët e tjera të Ballkanit, Botimet Dudaj, fq.21

Hysa,Enver (1998), Elemente turke në strukturën e fjalës në gjuhën shqipe”, Studime filologjike 34, fq.149 Demiraj, Shaban; (2004), Rreth huazimeve turke në gjuhën shqipe, Studime filologjike, fq.3-4

Samara, Mico( 01995); Zhvillime leksikosemantike të turqizmave në gjuhën shqipe,Studime filologjike,fq. 1-4 Majer, Gustav; (1891) Fjalori Etimoligjik i gjuhës shqipe.

P.s. Happy Independence Day, independent guy. Te ashtufte shkau listen e dasmes.

Great post, my swe-slough

 

[Johane Derite]

Fascinatingly, the rectangular vessels which are one of the defining features of this conservative culture, have also been found at Viminacium.

Interesting to note also that they appear mostly in mountainous regions within the border region of Moesia/Thrace/Macedonia which became the border region of Dardania/Macedonia after the reforms of the 3rd Century AD.

Viminacium was of course majority EV13 so this is interesting to speculate that this people could have also had it.

 

[Johane Derite]

Prendergast argues that Vlach languages are most likely the result of Proto-Albanian speakers shifting fully to Latin.


Kekaumenos' remark from the 11th century that Vlachs were descendants of the Bessi & Dacians would then imply that Bessi & Dacians spoke proto-Albanian.

"Balkan Romance is the outcome of a full shift of Albanian speakers into the Roman, Late Latin-speaking settlement community, resulting in a form of Balkan Latin that shared many grammatical and some lexical properties with Albanian."

Prendergast also writes:

A number of important toponyms in Macedonia, southern Serbia, and Kosovo show reflexes of Albanian phonological developments; e.g. Astibos > Albanian Shtip, Slavic Štip (in eastern Macedonia), Naissus > Albanian Nish, Slavic Niš (in southern Serbia) (Pulaha 1984:11).



The toponym Dobreta, because of its greater distance as mentioned above places, the potential range of the predecessor to Albanian up to the banks of the Danube.

This was also the range of significant Latin influence (north of the Jireček Line, which is recognized as the customary division of a northern zone of Latin language influence and from a southern zone of Greek language influence, [Jireček 1911, Friedman 2001b:29]) and corresponded to the area inhabited by pastoral speakers of Balkan Romance well into the Middle Ages.

This fits well with a theory forwarded in particular by Hamp (1994) that Albanian is the result of an autochthonous Balkan language that has undergone partial Romanization, while Balkan Romance represents a full language shift, whereby the early form of this Balkan language (its “proto-Albanian” linguistic predecessor) was fully absorbed into Late Latin."

So, fascinatingly, a proto-Albanian language seems to have been spoken exactly within this region where this conservative mountain people seems to have been living in the pre-slavic period, thracians supposedly that began moving west in the 100s AD.

 

[Dushman]

Great post, my swe-slough

Ave swe-slough!

As a Malsor, did you grandma also wear light-jacket (xhubleta, xhup lehta) upside as a dress? Interesting and mysterious Albanian traditions those of putting legs at the sleeves of a jacket, specifically a light one. Heavy jackets were discriminated because they impaired walking.

Matzinger: Albanian is not Daco-Thracian

Johane The Right: So, fascinatingly, a proto-Albanian language seems to have been spoken exactly within this region where this conservative mountain people seems to have been living in the pre-slavic period, thracians supposedly that began moving west in the 100s AD.

If you are so so so , Nationalistic , then DNA is not for you to follow because the results will not be to your liking.

Did you read my post upside down due to being in Australia?

We’re talking linguistics and national consciousness here, not genetics. Plus, why would an E-V13 result not be to my liking? I’m loving it so far, thinking to order another one to boost my confidence again. It’s not like I’m R1a and autosomally 10-20% Middle Easterner like some Albanian speaking Kosovans.

 

[Fustan]

Matzinger: Albanian is not Daco-Thracian

Johane The Right: So, fascinatingly, a proto-Albanian language seems to have been spoken exactly within this region where this conservative mountain people seems to have been living in the pre-slavic period, thracians supposedly that began moving west in the 100s AD.

Yeah I just noticed this too, what a retard, seriously. Shame he has polluted this entire thread, I consider it all off topic, dude is just parroting a linguist who has been crucially wrong before. Swe-slough was the last drop for me tbh, if you're an Albanian speaker, and think that "Vlla" is related to "Swe-Slough" you're just straight up retarded, I don't know what else to say. There's an excuse for foreigners like Matzinger because they don't know Albanian the way us native speakers do.

It’s not like I’m R1a and autosomally 10-20% Middle Easterner like some Albanian speaking Kosovans.

Hey man, I'm not seeing that many bad posts from R1a Albanians at all, it's actually unfortunately your E-V13 compatriots who seem to have lost their mind, and some fellow J2-L283 people (mount, entertain) who from the coastal Dalmatian Illyrian results (despite their clades having nothing to do with Albanians, except for the single southernmost sample) have gotten their heads up their ass. I miss the days where all the three main haplogroups were defended as being Illyrian but people have just entered mental breakdowns in massive proportions.

 

[Dushman]

@Fustan
Well, the R1a lads ought to be diplomatic and play it cool XD

I know 2 R1a fellas that ran their mouth way too much until they got their results and got all peace loving all of a sudden.

Jokes aside, my issue is mainly with suspicious Kosovars who love the Middle East and Turkey way too much and then I started noticing such admixtures in their autosomal results. I’m sure most of them hide it but few were ignorant enough to post them online (especially girls) and you could clearly see they were indeed mixed. That’s where the love for Turkey and Islam comes from, partial Ottoman heritage.

By the way, must be the E-V13 Z5018s the problematic ones. I’m Z5017 lol

 

[Fustan]

Tbh I haven't seen much of those kind of people, and I don't think any Kosovo Albanian on this forum is like that. Albanians can be totally stupid without being Turcophiles, just look at Hawk and Derite.

 

[torzio]

[/FONT][/COLOR]
Did you read my post upside down due to being in Australia?

We’re talking linguistics and national consciousness here, not genetics. Plus, why would an E-V13 result not be to my liking? I’m loving it so far, thinking to order another one to boost my confidence again. It’s not like I’m R1a and autosomally 10-20% Middle Easterner like some Albanian speaking Kosovans.

ROFL......and so with your comment , we see you think R1a is only slav ............old nationalistic theories dictate your thinking

If you want to talk languages , then do not associate certain DNA to ANY languages .....as it is 100% wrong

 

[Dibran]

I don’t care about your Ottoman lightweight jokes. What bothers me as an Albanian is your recent separatist feelings and behaviour.
Our blood wasn’t spilled so that Albanian-hating Ottomans benefit from it and try to create a new identity. I’m with the Albanians of Kosovo not some Turkish loving Kosovans.

Ugh I have actually some of these new agey types tell me "I'm not Albanian, I'm Kosovan". So I'll curse them in Albanian and they'll be like "excuse me what did you just say?!?"

To which I reply, I thought you aren't Albanian?
Sadly this separatist bs helps our enemies big time.

But from my experience it's not many Albanians. All my Kosovar friends say they're Albanian and alot of them still carry the Albanian flag in their homes.

 

[Dibran]

If you are so so so , Nationalistic , then DNA is not for you to follow because the results will not be to your liking.

There's nothing nationalistic about pointing out Kosova are Albanians. Their tribal identity is Kosovar. But this new separatist ideology of some new identity as Kosovan is nothing but manufactured falsehoods from our enemies to keep us divided.

Adem Jashari is an Albanian and called himself as such. And him with many unsung heros died for their rights and identity.

 

[Dibran]

@Fustan
Well, the R1a lads ought to be diplomatic and play it cool XD

I know 2 R1a fellas that ran their mouth way too much until they got their results and got all peace loving all of a sudden.

Jokes aside, my issue is mainly with suspicious Kosovars who love the Middle East and Turkey way too much and then I started noticing such admixtures in their autosomal results. I’m sure most of them hide it but few were ignorant enough to post them online (especially girls) and you could clearly see they were indeed mixed. That’s where the love for Turkey and Islam comes from, partial Ottoman heritage.

By the way, must be the E-V13 Z5018s the problematic ones. I’m Z5017 lol

Hey I'm R1a. And regardless of my ancestor being some naked blonde savage in the early medieval, my family has always bled for the Albanian cause.

Also, I think the pro-Turk Albanians from my experience were mostly Albanians from Macedonia due to some of the religious radicalization. But everyone's experiences are different of course.

 

[Johane Derite]

Bulatovic argues that there are suggestions in material culture of Bessi moving west in the 100s AD.


Interestingly, this culture overlaps with the toponyms Nish & Shtip, an area where a proto-Albanian speaking people is argued to have been living for a while prior to the Slavs.

So we know that proto-Albanian was spoken precisely in this region where this mysterious conservative mountain people was living. Since there seems to have been a westward migration beginning in the 100s AD, this might explain why Shkupi is a post-roman accent in Albanian (Latin. scuola -> shkollë).

These "Bessi" appear in Shkup in inscriptions beginning around this time. Some could have continued further west (nomadic shepherds), at which time they would then learn the toponyms Scodra -> Shkodra, etc. Those that would have stayed behind in Naissus and Shtip probably would have gotten fully latinised, hellenised, or slavicised if they didn't die out altogether.

:heart: ​

Besa Besë

:heart:​

 

[Dushman]

Tbh I haven't seen much of those kind of people, and I don't think any Kosovo Albanian on this forum is like that. Albanians can be totally stupid without being Turcophiles, just look at Hawk and Derite.

Depends where you live. You won’t encounter them much in Western Europe or NA.

https://www.osfa.al/sites/default/files/raporti_plote_kosove_-_shqiperi_-_eng.pdf

Regarding the desire to achieve national unifica- tion, 63% of respondents in Albania and 54% of respondents in Kosovo state that they want to achieve it. If given a chance to vote in a referendum, 75% of Albanians in Albania and 64% of Kosovo Albanians would vote in favor of national unification.

However, the positive attitudes start to decline in both Albania and Kosovo when surveyees are asked whether they would marry Albanians from the other country - Albania/Kosovo; 75% of respondents in Albania saying they do not have a problem and only 56% of respondents in Kosovo give a positive answer.

The greatest social distance with Albanians in Albania was found in Albanians of the Prishtina and Ferizaj region, whereas the greatest closeness was expressed by the Albanians of Gjakova and Peja.

Significant differences between Albanians in Kosovo and Albania appear when they are asked about their willingness to marry someone of another religion – for 79% of respondents in Albania this is not a problem, while only 13.5% of respondents in Kosovo share this attitude.

What wrong have we done to these Ottomans? They didn’t like our poor life conditions when we hosted 800,000 of them in our homes during the war?

Now they want to take away our language too and claim an exclusivity on the so-called Dardano-Thracian language.

 

[Dushman]

Hey I'm R1a. And regardless of my ancestor being some naked blonde savage in the early medieval, my family has always bled for the Albanian cause.
Also, I think the pro-Turk Albanians from my experience were mostly Albanians from Macedonia due to some of the religious radicalization. But everyone's experiences are different of course.

I know, I was clearly speaking about national consciousness and I even mentioned the autosomal part. You’re not Slavic if you’re autosomally 10-20% North Eastern European.

It’s just torzio/Sile that is lonely and wants to be involved since everyone in Eupedia ignores and belittles him. Poor torzio/Sile, he’s our little Illyrian/Venetic/Dalmatian/not-fake-South Illyrian brother.

As for the Albanians of Macedonia, I’m aware of their religiousness but despite that as well as the fact that I despise religion, I really like Albanians from Macedonia. I think they’re really pleasant human beings if you remove the radical/backward views.

 

[Dibran]

I know, I was clearly speaking about national consciousness and I even mentioned the autosomal part. You’re not Slavic if you’re autosomally 10-20% North Eastern European.

It’s just torzio/Sile that is lonely and wants to be involved since everyone in Eupedia ignores and belittles him. Poor torzio/Sile, he’s our little Illyrian/Venetic/Dalmatian/not-fake-South Illyrian brother.

As for the Albanians of Macedonia, I’m aware of their religiousness but despite that as well as the fact that I despise religion, I really like Albanians from Macedonia. I think they’re really pleasant human beings if you remove the radical/backward views.

Yea I figured. I'm just being silly lol. I honestly don't know with all these different calculators. I get as little as 5% and as much as 25% sometimes. I feel like the 3rd party tools we have while great, can be sketchy sometimes. If IBD sharing became commercially available that would sat alot. Think my heritage tried that with their clusters tool but it wasn't the greatest.

Yea, he's been riding Albanians since I joined these forums. Still a broken record lol.

Yea. I mean my family is Muslim but my grandfather would always tell my father and his brothers that inside you leave your religion and when you walk out the door you're Albanian.

For me faith is a personal thing. I don't believe in organized religion. That's why South Slavs are like all different flavors of Hagen Daaz lol

My experience with Albanians of Macedonia has either been super atheist or super extreme. Overall nice people but I can't tolerate the Turks are our brothers nonsense. They held Albanians back big time.

 

[Johane Derite]

Bulatovic argues that there are suggestions in material culture of Bessi moving west in the 100s AD.


Interestingly, this culture overlaps with the toponyms Nish & Shtip, an area where a proto-Albanian speaking people is argued to have been living for a while prior to the Slavs.

"The word besë, one of the most important words in Albanian culture, and the cornerstone of personal and social conduct"

Leonard Fox

 

[Archetype0ne]

Viminacium was of course majority EV13 so this is interesting to speculate that this people could have also had it.

Was it? IIRC there were 3 L283 and 3 V13, I recall having to correct Riverman on this as well, over on Anthro.