Is anthrogenica.com gone?

[Angela]

Realize those Helladic samples had higher Steppe particularly the ones from Northeast Greece where there was close proximity to Balkan Bronze age populations. I actually plot really close to one of the Logkas samples (55-33 EEF/IE minor CHG) as would most modern mainlanders (for different reasons) so possibly the Steppe element may not have made it that far South during the Bronze Age. It would make more sense to me (novice op) that the proto Greeks (Pelasgians or whatever) who were most likely centered in the more remote areas of the Peloponnese were harboring high EEF (leftover from the Neolithic).

Log 4 and Log 2 are quite different from the Mycenaeans, and even from modern Greeks. Log 4 is not that far from me, in fact.

Fwiw, I don't see the big difference between Crete and the mainlanders.

 

[matadworf]

Log 4 and Log 2 are quite different from the Mycenaeans, and even from modern Greeks. Log 4 is not that far from me, in fact.

Fwiw, I don't see the big difference between Crete and the mainlanders.

Actually I'm actually pretty close to Log 4 as well. But here's a comparison:

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 3, align: left"]Target: Anthony_C_scaled
Distance: 2.2236% / 0.02223648 | R4P | ADC: 0.25x
[/TH]

[TD="class: barchartmode2 nonselectable"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]82.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Logkas_MBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode2 nonselectable"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]11.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Koufonisi_Cycladic_EBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode2 nonselectable"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]5.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Mycenaean[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode2 nonselectable"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Minoan_Kephala_Petras
[/TD]

Cretans get higher Mycenean and/or Cycladic due to less IE.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 3, align: left"]Target: Greek_Crete:Crete8
Distance: 3.4528% / 0.03452811 | ADC: 0.25x
[/TH]

[TD="class: barchartmode2 nonselectable"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]45.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Logkas_MBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode2 nonselectable"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]27.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Mycenaean[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode2 nonselectable"][/TD]
[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]26.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Koufonisi_Cycladic_EBA
[/TD]

Anyway probably wrong thread for this

 

[Jovialis]

Mycenaeans are actually closer to the Early Bronze Age Helladic, rather than the Middle Bronze Age Helladic:

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9041:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9500, align: right"]10.62773259[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5E00, align: right"]12.24090274[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5A00, align: right"]12.36176767[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5A00, align: right"]12.36372112[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF004D, align: right"]17.27894962[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9900FF, align: right"]25.50182739[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

---

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9033:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8B00, align: right"]10.90805666[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0007, align: right"]15.20189133[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0009, align: right"]15.27317583[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF001A, align: right"]15.77477100[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF004B, align: right"]17.19503707[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B700FF, align: right"]24.60472719[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

---

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9010:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FAFF00, align: right"]7.34801334[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7E00, align: right"]11.29679158[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6500, align: right"]12.03915695[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1D00, align: right"]14.13949787[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00A4, align: right"]19.82541046[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3600FF, align: right"]28.40893169[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

---

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9006:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FAFF00, align: right"]7.36557533[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDC00, align: right"]8.51929575[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAF00, align: right"]9.86095330[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3500, align: right"]13.43415051[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E100FF, align: right"]23.39465324[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]31.37220585[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[mwauthy]

It’s a shame that there is so much bickering on archaeogenetic forums and not more collaborative discourse.

“The more I know, the more I realize I know nothing.”

 

[matadworf]

Mycenaeans are actually closer to the Early Bronze Age Helladic, rather than the Middle Bronze Age Helladic:

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9041:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9500, align: right"]10.62773259[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5E00, align: right"]12.24090274[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5A00, align: right"]12.36176767[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5A00, align: right"]12.36372112[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF004D, align: right"]17.27894962[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9900FF, align: right"]25.50182739[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

---

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9033:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8B00, align: right"]10.90805666[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0007, align: right"]15.20189133[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0009, align: right"]15.27317583[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF001A, align: right"]15.77477100[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF004B, align: right"]17.19503707[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B700FF, align: right"]24.60472719[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

---

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9010:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FAFF00, align: right"]7.34801334[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7E00, align: right"]11.29679158[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6500, align: right"]12.03915695[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1D00, align: right"]14.13949787[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00A4, align: right"]19.82541046[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3600FF, align: right"]28.40893169[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

---

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Mycenaean:I9006:Lazaridis_2017[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FAFF00, align: right"]7.36557533[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDC00, align: right"]8.51929575[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAF00, align: right"]9.86095330[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3500, align: right"]13.43415051[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E100FF, align: right"]23.39465324[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]31.37220585[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Interesting because you would think by the middle Bronze age the IE admixture would have moved South into the Peloponnese.

 

[Jovialis]

I'm not particularly close to any of the Ancient Greeks we have on record for the public. But I seem to fit the pattern:

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Jovialis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAA00, align: right"]9.98820805[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log02:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2800, align: right"]13.83752868[/TD]
[TD]Mycenaean:I9041:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1000, align: right"]14.54282297[/TD]
[TD]Armenoi_Crete:I9123:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF000C, align: right"]15.36065103[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Logkas_MBA:Log04:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0017, align: right"]15.66363304[/TD]
[TD]Mycenaean:I9033:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0049, align: right"]17.13985998[/TD]
[TD]Mycenaean:I9010:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0099, align: right"]19.50713459[/TD]
[TD]Mycenaean:I9006:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E6, align: right"]21.77539896[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou03:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FE00FF, align: right"]22.53049711[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FC00FF, align: right"]22.58741685[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F100FF, align: right"]22.90438604[/TD]
[TD]Helladic_Manika_EBA:Mik15:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DE00FF, align: right"]23.48364324[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Petras_EBAta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C200FF, align: right"]24.30187647[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BC00FF, align: right"]24.47227206[/TD]
[TD]Cycladic_Koufonisi_EBA:Kou01:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BB00FF, align: right"]24.49969183[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AD00FF, align: right"]24.92609476[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9700FF, align: right"]25.57013883[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9600FF, align: right"]25.60072851[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Odigitria:I9129:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8D00FF, align: right"]25.85438648[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3D00FF, align: right"]28.19863649[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Odigitria:I9128:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2200FF, align: right"]28.99869997[/TD]
[TD]Minoan_Odigitria:I9127:Lazaridis_2017

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Jovialis]

Interesting because you would think by the middle Bronze age the IE admixture would have moved South into the Peloponnese.

Perhaps it didn't make too much of an impact, because the south was already relatively speaking densely populated with Neolithic Greeks, who are pretty much the same as Minoans in terms of genetics.

 

[rafc]

I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.

 

[Frenchguy]

I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.

Speak about population replacement in ancient time, everything is fine ! Speak about population replacement happening now in France, everybody loses their mind !

 

[kingdavid]

I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.

Rafc please stay around
You are one of the guys in anthrogenica
Who know how to read bam files y calls
In some of the threads here i posted your y calls
Of specific individuals
Regards
Adam

 

[Palermo Trapani]

My internet at the house is down and has been since Saturday so since I am in my work office, I thought would check in. I was going to respond to a post directed at me but it seems that is no longer necessary.

 

[Jovialis]

I always liked the Anthrogenica forum. I have never been very interested in the debates on IE-origins, so if there was bias there I might have missed it. But my impression was that anyone could offer their theory or opinion without getting banned, as long as you argues based on data. They were strict on some rules, and there were some valuable posters that were banned permanently (no clue why). I actually did not mind that strictness, since it focused discussion on genetics. I also hope the forum stays accessible through snapshots, much info I posted there on Y-haplogroup calls of adna samples, I don't have anywhere else.

That was not my experience, I cited papers, and my detractors cited crappy G25 models, and was shouted down by imbeciles throwing ad hominens at me. Subsequently I was banned. I'm so happy that this pathetic website is gone. You don't see me abusing power, even though it is very ironic that the refugees are here, and I'm in the position of authority.

 

[Er Monnezza]

That was not my experience, I cited papers, and my detractors cited crappy G25 models, and was shouted down by imbeciles throwing ad hominens at me. Subsequently I was banned. I'm so happy that this pathetic website is gone. You don't see me abusing power, even though it is very ironic that the refugees are here, and I'm in the position of authority.

Just once? I was banned 2 times there

RIP Anthrogenica, no other forum will ever measure up to you.

 

[Angela]

Interesting because you would think by the middle Bronze age the IE admixture would have moved South into the Peloponnese.

The Mycenaeans spread north, not the other way around. They were intimately tied to the Aegean, not the northern regions.

 

[Frenchguy]

Just once? I was banned 2 times there
RIP Anthrogenica, no other forum will ever measure up to you.

Funny thing I remember is that they said, they were many forums admins so that way, what happened to Dnaforum will not happen again (like the admin getting bored of the forum or not willing to pay for it anymore or even dying). Well they lied. It seems that admins numbers shrinked as the years go by if i'm not mistaken like that guy mike who went from admin to regular member and many others who I forgot. I wonder why ?

Even if I didn't like anthrogenica moderation, it's a big loss for the world of ancient dna enthusiast. It would be a good ridance only if the community build up upon a new forum with less schizofrenic and illogical moderation.

 

[D.L.M]

The forum could easily survive through members donations for sure. Yep it is probably gone. Very bad.
I think if Eupedia got shot down too we would lose a lot as well especially the Y DNA work of Maciamo.
Anthrogenica being gone is a big loss. It is what it is.

 

[Jovialis]

"Eupedia.com was founded in December 2004 by Maciamo Hay.

Our aim is to create a detailed and informative guide to countries of the European Union, with an emphasis on travel, history, cultural differences, maps, and interesting facts about Europe.

Since 2009, Eupedia also has a dedicated section for genetics focusing chiefly on European population genetics, historical genetics and genetic genealogy, as well as related fields such as prehistory, archaeology and anthropology."

18 years, thus far. May the site live on 100 more.

 

[LeoJ]

Especially in the field of ancient DNA and archaeology, as in history, opinions and interpretations matter a lot, because the facts can be ambiguous or distorted easily. Archaeogenetics primarily sets some limits, as to what's possible and what's not, but inside of the range provided, a lot of different interpretations are possible and these are, regardless if coming from a professional (paid) scientist or layman, primarily opinions.

Exactly and correct. Peoples put out out of mouth imbecilities faster they think about that.

 

[LeoJ]

Isn't discord just a chat room, or something similar?

Yea, this is not what I wanted, or WE wanted; I mean AG backup forum with all the threads to read them when you have time for that. Discord is an 'on-line NOW' tool, with little help.

 

[LeoJ]

I think some of you should join anti-vaxxer/flat-earther forums, you might feel right at home with the anti-intellectualism. Then you can find like minded people who believe all of academia is bias. What joke, it is academic-style decorum to believe hobbyists know better than actual academics. Please, give me a break.

It is not for the first time in history when peoples/hobbyists launch ideas which were embraced by the academics.