Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

Another interesting pattern that is developing is, R1b shows up at the edges of the Illyrian sphere and is barely occurring at it's core. The R1b in Albania likely relates to the paleo-Balkan group like the Paeonians, Phrygians, Doric and possibly Bronze Age Dardanians.
 
One thing to note is we didn't get EIA samples from South Albania where apparently the Pannonian-Urnfield influence was somewhat stronger. Could it be we can see E-V13 there? (PaleoRevenge be soft on me on this). :LOL:
 
mount123 said:
Don't think so. Excine basically repeated the same stuff and is E1b-V13. I generally just think these whole forced baseless correlation pseudo scientific posts of Bruzmi were mirroring his mental health which was obviously not in a good state and still isn't. He is just an internet enthusiast that has attached too much emotions to scientific topics of which he is not qualified to even have an opinion on yet alone discuss about.

But as always there are scientific papers and those matter at the end of the day.
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Anyway, it doesn't matter. In the beginning i was reluctant but when you hear several people saying the same thing and the pattern keeping repeated in archaeological studies then something must be there indeed.
 
Hawk said:
One thing to note is we didn't get EIA samples from South Albania where apparently the Pannonian-Urnfield influence was somewhat stronger. Could it be we can see E-V13 there? (PaleoRevenge be soft on me on this). :LOL:
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I'm content where I am from. I could care less if my ancestors have only lived in the area for 600 years, it's a nice area, I like it and it's mine, the end. It does not matter if I personally belong to a E haplotype that's not even local in a Balkan sense, these people are insecure.
It is weird how they are not even fascinated by the results and intrigued by the how, when and why. They just want a fantasy at all costs.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Another interesting pattern that is developing is, R1b shows up at the edges of the Illyrian sphere and is barely occurring at it's core. The R1b in Albania likely relates to the paleo-Balkan group like the Paeonians, Phrygians, Doric and possibly Bronze Age Dardanians.
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Kukes was most certainly within the Illyrian core during Iron Age. Did you see the results from there?
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Another interesting pattern that is developing is, R1b shows up at the edges of the Illyrian sphere and is barely occurring at it's core. The R1b in Albania likely relates to the paleo-Balkan group like the Paeonians, Phrygians, Doric and possibly Bronze Age Dardanians.
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Good observation and that is highly likely the case considering IA North Macedonian results.
 
The Romanian results are mostly from South-East Romania, certainly that's not the area of Western Romania/Eastern Ukraine where Gava/Channeled-Ware core started. Who knows.
 
The paper is for certainly rich in samples, but i have the feeling it was too hyped. I already see criticism on it from comparative linguists.

I bet many of the conclusions in the paper regarding Bronze/Iron Age Balkans are just superficial.
 
Hawk said:
The paper is for certainly rich in samples, but i have the feeling it was too hyped. I already see criticism on it from comparative linguists.

I bet many of the conclusions in the paper regarding Bronze/Iron Age Balkans are just superficial.
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There is no conclusion for that.
The only conclusion is that Albanian comes straight from Yamnaya culture, no intermediaries.


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^There is much to be desired, they definitely could do better and sample more. But it is always that way, half-way measures, I do like to see the autosomal results, would be interesting, especially the R1b Macedonians and those from Albania and of course the Thracians. It would provide some answers.
 
Is this not wonderful, to see all of anti-Thracian V13 folk obliterated once and for all. This was no mere victory, it was a blowout. Apparently there were more Bulgarian E samples than I thought.. My condolences those of you Albanian trolls such as Excine, Bruzmi etc.


Hopefully this will teach you a lesson and you will stop flooding V13 discussion with nonsensical theories (I see Bruzmi doesn't still get it).


E-V13 = Thracian. Full stop. If not for V13 Thracians/Dacians would not have existed (they picked it up from some R at some point ofc). And Albanians do not speak a Thracian language, hence you have no particular ownage rights over the E-V13 thing.. And this is what you have done, again and again, especially non-V13 Albanians patronizing V13..


Excine said:
If Riverman's theory stands in stone then there should be E-V13 in Iron Age Albania, it just wasn't found yet.
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It likely won't be found, because Rivermans theory is wrong in this respect. V13 did not primarily expand via Belegis-Gava but primarily through Babadag-Psenichevo-Basarabi. Belegis-Gava did have an impact, but much of their expansions were actually dead-ends.
I think Riverman maybe wanted to appease some Albanians, so you do not react the way you react to my writings.


I said last time to your friend Bruzmi. You want everything (V13=Illyrian) but are going to end up with NOTHING. You ended up with nothing.

So who keeps the word Bruzmi or me? Who other than me championed V13 is Thracian so radically. Nobody.

Except this Croatian IA sample.. But this sample belongs to a culture quite distinct form the core Illyrian culture and a mixed culture.


If you think being connected to a great people is nothing, just because you must be a native in the area of Albania. I was correct, E-V13 also belongs to a block of other groups mostly owned by a single hg in initial expansion, J-L283 Illyrians, R-U152 Italics, R-Z282/M458 Balto-Slavic, R-Z93 Indo-Iranics, R-U106/I1 Germanics etc.


As for the origin of V13. The upcoming Pannonian study has apparently V13 Gava sample, and a much older BA sample.
Quite simple. There is V13 in EBA and LBA NE Hungary. There isn't V13 in BA Balkans.
People calling the origin of V13 "mysterious", how stupid you have to be if you cannot do 2+2=4. In the study they did bring up the Lengyel E-L618 find, ofc once Pannonian study is out they will too pick up the obvious..

So many anti V13 haters got blown away today.. They just cannot stomach the truth, that E-V13 was rampaging, slicing through their distant cousin hg's like through butter, just because they made up an idea on how "a good docile E" is supposed to behave..
 
Well the Romanian theory that was bouncing around is dead in the water now. In all honesty I am super surprised by V13. I used to think that we would find it in regions like North Macedonia, North Albania etc.

Gava/Channeled Ware doesn't make sense anymore. For example the Ulanci group did have Channeled Ware influence during early Iron Age but yet we still got a CTS7556 sample from there from that time period. We need a new model for V13, me thinks. Whatever it is, it's super impressive considering they came to dominate the southern Balkan region. Getting pushed west as Thracian influence does make sense, however.
 
Oroku Saki said:
Is this not wonderful, to see all of anti-Thracian V13 folk obliterated once and for all. This was no mere victory, it was a blowout. Apparently there were more Bulgarian E samples than I thought.. My condolences those of you Albanian trolls such as Excine, Bruzmi etc.


Hopefully this will teach you a lesson and you will stop flooding V13 discussion with nonsensical theories (I see Bruzmi doesn't still get it).


E-V13 = Thracian. Full stop. If not for V13 Thracians/Dacians would not have existed (they picked it up from some R at some point ofc). And Albanians do not speak a Thracian language, hence you have no particular ownage rights over the E-V13 thing.. And this is what you have done, again and again, especially non-V13 Albanians patronizing V13..





It likely won't be found, because Rivermans theory is wrong in this respect. V13 did not primarily expand via Belegis-Gava but primarily through Babadag-Psenichevo-Basarabi. Belegis-Gava did have an impact, but much of their expansions were actually dead-ends.
I think Riverman maybe wanted to appease some Albanians, so you do not react the way you react to my writings.


I said last time to your friend Bruzmi. You want everything (V13=Illyrian) but are going to end up with NOTHING. You ended up with nothing.

So who keeps the word Bruzmi or me? Who other than me championed V13 is Thracian so radically. Nobody.

Except this Croatian IA sample.. But this sample belongs to a culture quite distinct form the core Illyrian culture and a mixed culture.


If you think being connected to a great people is nothing, just because you must be a native in the area of Albania. I was correct, E-V13 also belongs to a block of other groups mostly owned by a single hg in initial expansion, J-L283 Illyrians, R-U152 Italics, R-Z282/M458 Balto-Slavic, R-Z93 Indo-Iranics, R-U106/I1 Germanics etc.


As for the origin of V13. The upcoming Pannonian study has apparently V13 Gava sample, and a much older BA sample.
Quite simple. There is V13 in EBA and LBA NE Hungary. There isn't V13 in BA Balkans.
People calling the origin of V13 "mysterious", how stupid you have to be if you cannot do 2+2=4. In the study they did bring up the Lengyel E-L618 find, ofc once Pannonian study is out they will too pick up the obvious..

So many anti V13 haters got blown away today.. They just cannot stomach the truth, that E-V13 was rampaging, slicing through their distant cousin hg's like through butter, just because they made up an idea on how "a good docile E" is supposed to behave..
Click to expand...


You are the fking troll responsible for spreading anti-Albanian comments and promoting genocide. Why aren't you IP-blocked? You should be blacklisted from all internet platforms. You are the embodiment of a horrible person.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Kukes = Dardania, frontier region, hardly core Illyrian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanian–Bastarnic_war#/media/File:DardaniaMap.png
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I share your opinion as it is obvious from the data. It is not like the aDNA picture along the East Adriatic zone from the various papers is not clear enough. But you will see many people attach their modern national emotions to Bronze and Iron Age populations to force some common origin.

Remember all of the fake news and misinformation campaigns they have made? They are not laughing anymore aren't they :LOL:
 
Hawk said:
The Romanian results are mostly from South-East Romania, certainly that's not the area of Western Romania/Eastern Ukraine where Gava/Channeled-Ware core started. Who knows.
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Its not just the wrong place, but also the wrong time and cultures. Monteoru was a fringe candidate for me, like I though some E-V13 could have made it there, and it probably even did, but the sample is large enough to say they being largely out as well. For the earlier phase, the same can be said about Bodrogkeresztur (Copper Age), its out, though if present E-V13 would have been a small minority anyway, because it predates all founder events of importance, which happened after the steppe expansion.

So we have much too early, culturally and geographically "wrong" samples from Romania and Serbia. Just like we had the same from Hungary. The core regions for the debate being not even touched. And they are problematic, because of the cremation gap.

As for Psenichevo-Basarabi being the main secondary spreading event: Most likely yes, but the data from the moderns suggest and earlier massive expansion, so it was definitely G?va/Channelled Ware. That Monteoru has no E-V13 makes this scenario even more likely, because if E-V13 was more to the South, we have now both Mokrin and Monteoru which tell us it was not there in significant numbers, yet E-V13 had reached significant numbers by that time.
So they must have been, without a doubt, in the cremating groups East of the Tisza river, in the Eastern basin.

Its just a missed opportunity that they didn't sample Basarabi and Babadag remains form inhumatoin burials, which exist.

The samples from Romania taken are all irrelevant to the debate and only prove that the I2+G2 dominance was huge from Pannonia (Encrusted Pottery) to the Lower-Danube Aegean. E-V13 clearly expanded on top of these layers, and fusing with the local populations. Thracians were polygynous, and the Channelled Ware people quickly mixed with the locals, we see that in the record - this is the main reason for the difference provinces, like Belegis II-G?va or Psenichevo are both basically G?va which took local women and assimilated some locals. The tribes which came up in the process differentiated from each other, that's all to explain the different cultural groups and provinces with the Channelled/Fluted Ware horizon.
 
mount123 said:
I share your opinion as it is obvious from the data. It is not like the aDNA picture along the East Adriatic zone from the various papers is not clear enough. But you will see many people attach their modern national emotions to Bronze and Iron Age populations to force some common origin.

Remember all of the fake news and misinformation campaigns they have made? They are not laughing anymore aren't they :LOL:
Click to expand...

Clutching at straws, the ship is sinking and they are holding on to it, to the bitter end.
 
broder said:
Well the Romanian theory that was bouncing around is dead in the water now. In all honesty I am super surprised by V13. I used to think that we would find it in regions like North Macedonia, North Albania etc.

Gava/Channeled Ware doesn't make sense anymore. For example the Ulanci group did have Channeled Ware influence during early Iron Age but yet we still got a CTS7556 sample from there from that time period. We need a new model for V13, me thinks. Whatever it is, it's super impressive considering they came to dominate the southern Balkan region. Getting pushed west as Thracian influence does make sense, however.
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Romania is a big country. Modern day Wallachia and Moldavia as origin points are very unlikely. But Transylvania is something else.

These Pannonian E samples are from areas near the Romanian border. This used to be Hungary 100-1000 years ago, so one might say "Eastern Hungarian" areas as well for that region..

Psenicevo which is full of V13 together with Babadag cousin culture both descend of Insula Banului (this is probably the most important thing for Balkan V13) group near the Iron Gates, this is where Gava people merged with some Incrusted Pottery locals.

NE Hungary has LBA E-L539 level sample with lots of Steppe, according to diagram 47 % Yamnaya, even EBA E-L539 sample had 39 %, so it seems in Southern expansion V13 mixed with some very Southern group with as this study suggests with some extra CHG ancestry (which is what that old EIA Bulgaria sample shows) giving them a profile that is more Aegean like. I think the explanation for this are some extremely Southern LBA and EBA samples, both J2a also from NE Hungary. Apparently one of dominant Transylvanian cultures Schneckenberg (which I used to connect to V13 long ago) was of Anatolian origin, and its cousin culture from Bulgaria in this study also has J2a.

And also after the spread of Psenicevo and Babadag, another younger IA culture appeared Basarabi, which spread also Westwards, this Croatian sample is most likely result of those Thraco-Cimmerian movements as we saw already V13 in Vekerzug context.

I was surprised too with E-BY14160 in LIA Bulgaria. Parent clade Y37092 is mostly Western Balkans today. There is only one Macedonian E-BY14150 sample.

Scythian LIA sample and that group whole from Moldavia also is from an area and with some material of an IA group clearly descended from the South, and prior to that from the Insula Banului areas.

We do have one female Babadag culture find MJ12 (and that's because I bothered to look at that site, most call it just Thraco-Cimmerian), it also shows plenty of autosomal affinity with what looks to be the dominant IA V13 autosomal profile.
 
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