To burn or not to burn: LBA/EIA Balkan case

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Speaking of which, i have spotted it's amazing how a good number of top tech companies were founded and are run by Jews.

Google, Meta, Midjourney, OpenAI, Slack/Salesforce, Oracle (the best premium DBMS on the market) etc, etc, etc...

Looks like they might support each other with funding and investments.

I got told or read that when Jews were in Europe they were not allowed to own land so they had to live in big cities and learned and mastered the art of trade and dealing with money. Perhaps hardships make you stronger. IDK.
 
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Speaking of which, i have spotted it's amazing how a good number of top tech companies were founded and are run by Jews.

Google, Meta, Midjourney, OpenAI, Slack/Salesforece, Oracle (the best premium DBMS on the market) etc, etc, etc...

Looks like they might support each other with funding and investments.

I got told or read that when Jews were in Europe they were not allowed to own land so they had to live in big cities and learned and mastered the art of trade and dealing with money. Perhaps hardships make you stronger. IDK.
The Jewish prominence in these businesses started before the Christian period, we have Roman historical accounts in that direction. But the specialisation got stronger and more pronounced in the Medieval Christian period, that much is for sure. This included genetic and social selection, since Jewish people which were not able to support themselves under the new conditions, which required certain abilities and a minimal intelligence niveau, were less attractive marital partners for other Jewish families, had to convert or starve in some regions and time periods. Most of the converts to Christianity in the records from German lands were poor Jews, oftentimes dependent on social welfare, or after getting into trouble with their Jewish community because of nonconformistic behaviour.

Anyway, from Borat to Jews in business...please come back to the topic.

There are a couple of new E1b1b samples from Cambridgeshire:
teepeanMedieval social landscape through the genetic history of Cambridgeshire before and after the Black Death

Abstract

The extent of the devastation of the Black Death pandemic (1346-53) on European populations is known from documentary sources and its bacterial source illuminated by studies of ancient pathogen DNA. What has remained less understood is the effect of the pandemic on human mobility and genetic diversity at local scale in the context of the social stratification of medieval communities. Here we study 275 newly reported ancient genomes from later medieval and post-medieval Cambridgeshire, from individuals buried before, during, and after the Black Death. The majority of individuals examined had local genetic ancestries. Consistent with the function of the institutions, we found a lack of close relatives among the friars and the inmates of the hospital in contrast to their abundance in general urban and rural parish communities. Accounting for the genetic component for height accentuates the disparities between social groups in stature estimated from long bones, as a proxy for health and the quality of life. While we detect long-term shifts in local genetic ancestry in Cambridgeshire that either pre- or postdate the Black Death, we find no evidence of major changes in genetic ancestry nor, in contrast to recent claims, higher differentiation of immune loci between cohorts living before and after the Black Death.

This a preprint from March but the data is available at ENA.


As far as I understood those will be analysed by FTDNA as well.
 
Anyway, from Borat to Jews in business...please come back to the topic.

To finish the business with Borat, the Scythian horseman from Pazyruk Culture in Kazakhstan looks similar to Borat.

PazyrikHorseman.JPG
 
To finish the business with Borat, the Scythian horseman from Pazyruk Culture in Kazakhstan looks similar to Borat.

PazyrikHorseman.JPG

Scythians did live in that region anyway, Kazakhstan. As did some Indo Europeans prior, Yamnaya
 
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There is already a publication out which is associated with the project "The Fall", it stresses once more the important date of around 1.200 BC, the Transitional Period. Was talked about before, but its so important, since I wrote a post elsewhere, its worth to being published once more to come back to the topic:

In the Carpathian Basin, in the 13th to 12th centuries BC, the deposition of metal in hoards increased exponentially. New data confirm that Alpine sources became dominant, though there is also evidence for the increased presence of Cypriot copper at this time (Gavranović et al. 2022; Molloy 2019, pp. 148–149). Metal supplied to sites north of the Po Valley continued to come from the nearby Alpine sources, though there are no published analyses of objects from the few surviving sites south of the river. Metalwork styles were increasingly shared between the Po Valley and Carpathian Basin in the 13th and 12th centuries BC (Molloy et al. in press). A subset of these styles, dominated by weaponry, appeared occasionally in the Aegean in the 13th century and then much more frequently in the 12th century. While local metal supplies remained consistent, this transculturation of weapon forms represents a clear change in consumption patterns and social networks as society was reconfigured after the palatial collapse (Iacono 2019; Jung and Mehofer 2013; Molloy 2016).
The consistent pattern seen in metalwork reveals a sharp change in supply, style, and management from the decades around 1200 BC. On the one hand, this shows continuity of long-distance networks; on the other hand, it shows a narrowing or refocusing of those networks and the political relationships they embodied. It is clear that shifts in the macroscale metal networks of Europe arose from changes to the societies that had formed the powerful nodes that drove long-distance networks.

First primarily a few mercenaries and specialists came from both Italy and the Carpatho-Balkan region to Greece, but later it was a full scale migration. That's the cause of the final collapse and the big shift taking place. With this expansion explaining perfectly why E-V13 has such a major growth peak in that period.

The chronology is pretty straightforward, because we see the wave of the Upper Tisza warriors coming down, moving closer to the Aegean with every generation. The first major impact was.


Although we know that the earliest sites were built ca. 1600 BC, there was a major investment in construction between 1500 and 1400 BC, a destruction horizon ca. 1300 BC, and limited evidence for occupation after 1200 BC at excavated sites.

When the Channelled Ware groups expanded into the Balkans, and e.g. Bulgaria was completely covered, further North the settlements being abandonend:

Other sites appear to have been abandoned slightly later, between 1250 and 1150 BC at Gradište Iđoš and Csanádpalota–Földvár, for example. In the southeastern plain, almost all cemeteries were abandoned after 1200, with a lower visibility of burials dated to the 12th to 11th centuries

To assess the magnitude of the shift and movement:


Settlement evidence is much reduced in general between 1200 and 1050 BC in the southern Pannonian Plain, and monumental central sites of any kind are unknown. While systematic survey is rare, Bóka (2012, fig. 5) and Száraz (2017) show “Gava period” sites were well distributed in the Körös area and Zala County in Hungary, respectively. For the Körös microregion, just north of the above fortified sites, this Gava typo-chronological period is framed as 1200–900 BC, and so shifts within this bracket are insufficiently clear. In Zala County, the number of sites fell from 122 sites dated broadly to 1300–1100 BC to 22 sites in 1100–900 BC.

Down to 22 from 122! That's truly massive.

Talking about the centre of Gáva:


In the Transylvanian Plateau, the Noua and Wittenburg cultural traditions came to an end in the 14th to 13th century BC (Quinn et al. 2020, pp. 51–53). A new wave of settlement building there was contemporary to increased use of Gava-type pottery, closely related to the Belegiš forms used in the Pannonian Plain. Over 30 “Gava settlements” are known in Transylvania alone, dated broadly to 1200 to 900 BC; the majority are east of the Apuseni Mountains, away from the Pannonian Plain (Bălen 2013, pl. 1).

Here they make absolutely clear, even if saying it cautious ("no doubt gradual" - why exactly gradual?! The evidence points to rather abrupt and massive tribal migrations on some routs, and continued mass migration, even if more gradual, elsewhere), that Gáva people migrated into the Balkans and in the direction of the Aegean:


To the south, new defensible and open settlements emerged in the 12th century BC in the Morava and Vardar-Axios Valleys leading to Greece; they were characterized by the adoption of Carpathian-style channel-decorated pottery (Bulatović et al. 2021). As the Pannonian Plain became depopulated, its material culture traditions were increasingly influential elsewhere, suggesting an element of outward, no doubt gradual, migration.

That event is absolutely crucial for the spread of E-V13 in the Balkans. Whereas in the North we see emptied regions and depopulated centres, Gáva-related Channelled Ware covered nearly all of the Balkans West of the Illyrians.

The combination of climate change, attraction to the riches of the South and increased pressure from the steppe (Cimmerians!) led to their mass migration Southward:

Overall, the system in place between 1400 and 1200 BC supported the presence of densely spaced, large, and enclosed sites in the southern Pannonian Plain indicative of a substantial population. Whatever changed, it was sufficient to render that system unsustainable, and areas of the landscape that had supported large populations ceased to do so.

 
Regions in the north were emptied by Urnfielders as we have already seen with Tollense battle. Maybe V13 fled south east during the Urnfield expansion?

So far we have yet to find any direct links of V13 for Urnfield, only i2 (even r1a moreso). Could be that V13 didn't expand during the late bronze age but later in the iron age through founder effects as we have yet to find any evidence for V13 being a major line in bronze age Europe
 
Regions in the north were emptied by Urnfielders as we have already seen with Tollense battle. Maybe V13 fled south east during the Urnfield expansion?

So far we have yet to find any direct links of V13 for Urnfield, only i2 (even r1a moreso). Could be that V13 didn't expand during the late bronze age but later in the iron age through founder effects as we have yet to find any evidence for V13 being a major line in bronze age Europe

First off, Urnfield was no block, but seperate groups and people united in a larger cultural framework. Here I was quoting on Gáva-related Channelled Ware groups, which are not the same as Lusatian-related people we see in Tollense. Probably distantly related, but different clans, and therefore very likely different haplogroups. We see no expansion of I2 in that period in the Balkans, but a replacement.

E-V13 on the other hand can be safely dated in that period to have been a major haplogroup of Europe already, and having a peak growth in the Transitional period, just around 1.200 BC, when Channelled Ware expanded into the Balkans.

There can be no debate about this, because the massive growth started earlier, was big already in the MBA, and gained unprecedented momentum in the LBA-EIA transition (1.300-1.000 BC).

Any later groupings, like say even Stamped Pottery, are too late. They rather continue the growth, but the first big expansion started in the MBA and the peak was in the LBA-EIA. Too early for later groups. Channelled Ware is the only sizeable candidate in question and what's even more: We have no E-V13 earlier in the Balkans, but plenty of later. Channelled Ware expanded that much into the Balkans, that it must have left a signal - E-V13 is the logical cancidate that way around as well.
 
First off, Urnfield was no block, but seperate groups and people united in a larger cultural framework. Here I was quoting on Gáva-related Channelled Ware groups, which are not the same as Lusatian-related people we see in Tollense. Probably distantly related, but different clans, and therefore very likely different haplogroups. We see no expansion of I2 in that period in the Balkans, but a replacement.

E-V13 on the other hand can be safely dated in that period to have been a major haplogroup of Europe already, and having a peak growth in the Transitional period, just around 1.200 BC, when Channelled Ware expanded into the Balkans.

There can be no debate about this, because the massive growth started earlier, was big already in the MBA, and gained unprecedented momentum in the LBA-EIA transition (1.300-1.000 BC).

Any later groupings, like say even Stamped Pottery, are too late. They rather continue the growth, but the first big expansion started in the MBA and the peak was in the LBA-EIA. Too early for later groups. Channelled Ware is the only sizeable candidate in question and what's even more: We have no E-V13 earlier in the Balkans, but plenty of later. Channelled Ware expanded that much into the Balkans, that it must have left a signal - E-V13 is the logical cancidate that way around as well.

Ok so Lusatians are directly related to Vatya? Vatya was in Carpathian region/Hungary and this is where the proto Urnfield core was

What replacement of i2 in the Balkans, there wasn't much i2 left in the Balkans prior to 1200BC. I2 survived in central Europe near Carpathian mountains and then expanded around 1200BC as we saw in Tollense. Look at these samples, where do you see i2 in late bronze age Balkans? -

We still have zero evidence of V13 expanding with Urnfield, it likely was in south east Europe and expanded 900BC+ through founder effects
 

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I2 was spread and common in Encrusted Pottery groups, which moved into the Balkans (Girla Mare), in Monteoru, presumably Tei also, and in EBA-MBA locals in Bulgaria. In all these groups, I2 appeared together with G2 primarily. And all those groups largely disappeared subsequently and were replaced by Illyrians and Daco-Thracians.
 
I2 was spread and common in Encrusted Pottery groups, which moved into the Balkans (Girla Mare), in Monteoru, presumably Tei also, and in EBA-MBA locals in Bulgaria. In all these groups, I2 appeared together with G2 primarily. And all those groups largely disappeared subsequently and were replaced by Illyrians and Daco-Thracians.

Encrusted Pottery/Hungary is not Balkans, it is central Europe. Like you said whatever i2 was left was replaced in the middle bronze age, prior to the formation of Urnfield where it re-emerged. The i2 group in Tollense battle still had high amounts of WHG autosomal (35%), no people from the Balkans were even close to this by the late bronze age

My point is you will find more i2 post 1200BC in Balkans than say 2000BC-1200BC
 
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Encrusted Pottery/Hungary is not Balkans, it is central Europe. Like you said whatever i2 was left was replaced in the middle bronze age, prior to the formation of Urnfield where it re-emerged. The i2 group in Tollense battle still had high amounts of WHG autosomal (35%), no people from the Balkans were even close to this by the late bronze age

My point is you will find more i2 post 1200BC in Balkans than say 2000BC-1200BC
Encrusted Pottery moved along the Danube into the Balkans, though. They survived in Bulgaria up to the expansion of Channelled Ware, which replaced it. The transition happend from Girla Mare to Vartop and subsequent formations.
Girla Mare was a major player and was a direct descendant of Encrusted Pottery Pannonian people. We found I2 in a sample from it.
 
Besides that, I2 or I2a are macrohaplogroup designations. The hgs. sampled in said context are not closely related at all to the ancestors of Slavic I-CTS10228.

I genuinely thought there was a new paper or something published with all the new posts.

Tiktok, this was discussed earlier. I2 is a macrohaplogroup. Tumulus-Urnfield is the chronology and these founding fathers in Central Europe are by a large margin R1b-U152-L2+.

Besides, since you post this pseudoscientific nonsense non stop, some clarifcation for you:

C-Y11591+ is the oldest attested human male patrilineage in Europe and the uniparental backbone of WHG ancestry. I-M170 is an addition from the East when it split off its paternal ancestor IJ-M429 and moved for Europe.
 
Tiktok, this was discussed earlier. I2 is a macrohaplogroup. Tumulus-Urnfield is the chronology and these founding fathers in Central Europe are by a large margin R1b-U152-L2+.

Besides, since you post this pseudoscientific nonsense non stop, some clarifcation for you:

C-Y11591+ is the oldest attested human male patrilineage in Europe and the uniparental backbone of WHG ancestry. I-M170 is an addition from the East when it split of its paternal ancestor IJ-M429 and moved for Europe.

You're that guy who hated northern European migration but wants light coloured eyes haha. Do you understand now that Yamnaya didn't have any?

Proto Tumulus = R-L2
Proto Urnfield = Vatya > Tollense battle, mostly i2, heavy WHG autosomal (30%+)

Not sure what C has to do with this discussion, it wasn't born in Europe and didn't have a lasting effect. Only I2 was, C formed in South Asia
 
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Encrusted Pottery moved along the Danube into the Balkans, though. They survived in Bulgaria up to the expansion of Channelled Ware, which replaced it. The transition happend from Girla Mare to Vartop and subsequent formations.
Girla Mare was a major player and was a direct descendant of Encrusted Pottery Pannonian people. We found I2 in a sample from it.

Yes replaced in Bulgaria but perhaps not in central Europe/Hungary. Encrusted Pottery samples had 30% WHG, we see similar people re-emerge during Urnfield period at Tollense battle - except not sure if they are related as had zero G2a, is the G2a found in MBA Croatia related to Encrusted Pottery or foreigners? - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94932-9#Sec31

According to this other study proto Encrusted Pottery was all i2 so we have to say G2a in Croatia wasn't Encrusted Pottery people -
 
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What a whole bunch of nonsense and straight up lies. C-Y11591+ did not form in Asia it is, I repeat again, the oldest attested human male patrilineage in Europe and the uniparental backbone of WHG ancestry.

FYI: I am not obsessed with "light" pigmentation. That was me reacting to this Albanian obsessed crackpot Boris aka Bushtër saying "Proto-Albanians assimilated the ugly, short, dark "latinophone" Illyrians".

And I have green eyes and dark blond hair, so what? Could have also inherited brown hair and brown eyes, doesn't change the fact that Paleo-Balkan people are European and therefore "white", and not what that Bulgarian/Turkish/Ashkali blabbers.
 
Yes replaced in Bulgaria but perhaps not in central Europe/Hungary. Encrusted Pottery samples had 30% WHG, we see similar people re-emerge during Urnfield period at Tollense battle - except not sure if they are related as had zero G2a, is the G2a found in MBA Croatia related to Encrusted Pottery?
Encrusted Pottery has samples from Hungary, Croatia and Bulgaria, dominated by I2 and G2. These were two clans apparently, within EP, the North Croatian were G2.
The same applies to Monteoru: I2 + G2 mix.

Therefore this is a constant in these groups in the Carpatho-Balkan sphere, that they were G2+I2. Just like earlier Bulgarian samples from the EBA-MBA too.
 
Encrusted Pottery has samples from Hungary, Croatia and Bulgaria, dominated by I2 and G2. These were two clans apparently, within EP, the North Croatian were G2.
The same applies to Monteoru: I2 + G2 mix.

Therefore this is a constant in these groups in the Carpatho-Balkan sphere, that they were G2+I2. Just like earlier Bulgarian samples from the EBA-MBA too.

I am thinking the Croatian G2 were not Encrusted Pottery but locals. The proto Encrusted Pottery people in the core/Hungary were all i2 - https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/40/9/msad182/7240678?login=false#415746574
 
What a whole bunch of nonsense and straight up lies. C-Y11591+ did not form in Asia it is, I repeat again, the oldest attested human male patrilineage in Europe and the uniparental backbone of WHG ancestry.

FYI: I am not obsessed with "light" pigmentation. That was me reacting to this Albanian obsessed crackpot Boris aka Bushtër saying "Proto-Albanians assimilated the ugly, short, dark "latinophone" Illyrians".

And I have green eyes and dark blond hair, so what? Could have also inherited brown hair and brown eyes, doesn't change the fact that Paleo-Balkan people are European and therefore "white", and not what that Bulgarian/Turkish/Ashkali blabbers.

In the borders of Europe maybe for this very minor lineage - https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-Y11591/

Either way, C is like a global DNA line that has very little to do with Europeans, meanwhile I has been almost exclusively European for 30,000 years
 

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I made an analysis of the most relevant E-V13 and related (Mezocsat-Late Gáva) samples, including the new ones:

E-V13-New-Commented.jpg



As can be seen in the graph, most of the new samples look like recently mixed individuals of North and South Thracian descent, which mixed primarily with "Imperial Roman" or generally East Mediterranean people, but also Illyrians and to a lesser degree with other people.

Therefore I think these are people from a mixed genetic-cultural Roman context, with the more local population being largely hidden from us behind the cremation wall, so to say. But these people come, on average about 1/2, one parent, from these locals of various Daco-Thracian origin. It looks like local elite males had married "Roman" (in the widest sense) wives. That's most evident in the Grobalja group, which represents 50 : 50 mixtures of Daco-Thracian : Imperial Roman/East Mediterranean.

The most South Thracian origin is clearly I15504, he looks like coming straight from the EIA.

We can also see that there is an older more Central-North Balkan cluster formed by the two Himerans and Vekerzug individual from Chotin, Slovakia.

My guess is that the local population of Viminacium before the Celts and Romans will have this exact profile. To me its just logical that the people which assimilated to Roman customs and married Roman partners were more likely to be buried in inhumation graves than locals which abstained from both - cultural adaptation and mixture with the newcomers.
 
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