Question What did Paleo Balkan people look like?

[Hioloi]

I imagined them being tall, white, dark haired and dark eyed.

Sorta like him

Am I wrong in my assessment?

 

[Who Cares?]

If I had to guess more like:

 

[norbert]

I don't think you can generalise. There was no single Paleo-Balkan phenotype. The peoples of the Western Balkans (Illyrians, Pannonians, Liburnians) didn't exactly look like those living in the southeast or Greece.

 

[Hioloi]

I don't think you can generalise. There was no single Paleo-Balkan phenotype. The peoples of the Western Balkans (Illyrians, Pannonians, Liburnians) didn't exactly look like those living in the southeast or Greece.

Just give me some examples if you can. I just want to know the general look.

 

[mount123]

@Hioloi BA-IA Paleo-Balkan people weren't one ethnicity. They all had based on their genotype different phenotypes, as simple as that. There are some descriptions of human bone samples of some of the ancient samples sampled thus far. Aswell as coloration/pigmentation likelihood analysis. The Picenes for instance, a IA West Adriatic people in Italy, according to the authors of the preprint are said to have had a higher occurrence of blue eyes and blondism compared to other IA Italian peoples (Etruscans, Latins). These folks had high amounts of Western Paleo-Balkan auDNA aswell as patrilineages such as J2b-L283.

As for that individual you posted, image search says he's Pietro Boselli, a North Italian and if I wouldn't have known I would have initially guessed Iberian and secondarily North Italian, maybe Southern French.

...some examples... I just want to know the general look.

Po ti, a nuk je Arbëror? Albanians are living samples. Thraco-Illyrian, mainly the product of most probably Albania BA-IA + Dardania-Moesia BA-IA mixture. Good variation.

 

[mount123]

Po ti, a nuk je Arbëror? Albanians are living samples. Thraco-Illyrian, mainly the product of most probably Albania BA-IA + Dardania-Moesia BA-IA mixture. Good variation.

 

[thejoker]

Pietro Boselli looks more like a Celtic and "Western" text book phenotype in my humble opinion. I can't see him that much in the Balkans, not even as "Paleo".

 

[mount123]

Random photo diashow nr. 2:

 

[Who Cares?]

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This group look like a mix of Romanians and Bulgarians. Definitively not western Balkan looking (Illyrians). Maybe Thracians or something like that.

 

[norbert]

Just give me some examples if you can. I just want to know the general look.

For the Western Balkans, I would imagine they looked approximately like Novak Djokovic or the Croatian basketballer Toni Kukoc. But that's a wild guess because the Croats are predominantly Slavic in their autosomal make-up. All in all, you can get an idea by looking at many South Slavs (save Bulgarians and Macedonians, who are more representative for the southern Balkans) except that the pre-Slavic populations of the Western Balkans had less blond hair and light eyes. The pictures above are called cherry-picking.

 

[Hioloi]

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Nice. I had in mind that Albanians resembled Paleo Balkan people, but I was thinking I might have been biased due to me being Albanian myself lol. Good to know I look like people from 3000 years ago

 

[mount123]

Nice. I had in mind that Albanians resembled Paleo Balkan people, but I was thinking I might have been biased due to me being Albanian myself lol. Good to know I look like people from 3000 years ago

Albanians have the highest percentage of Paleo-Balkan auDNA aswell as male uniparental DNA namely: E1b-V13, R1b-Z2103, J2b-L283 and R1b-PF7562>PF7563 and mtDNA.

FYI: @norbert and @Who Cares? are Serbian bots who propagate Slavic autochthonist ideas e. g. claiming Slavs resemble Western Paleo-Balkan folks like Illyrians with whom they neither share Y-DNA (J2b-L283 in Illyrians) nor mtDNA or auDNA. For the Central- and Eastern Balkans the same story applies, kind of, Slavs have absorbed some E1b-V13 for instance and some minor Z2103>Z2705 due to mixing with Albanians.

Slavs living in the Balkans carry mainly Slavic auDNA and uniparental DNA I-Y3120 and R1a-M417+.

 

[Who Cares?]

For the Western Balkans, I would imagine they looked approximately like Novak Djokovic or the Croatian basketballer Toni Kukoc. But that's a wild guess because the Croats are predominantly Slavic in their autosomal make-up. All in all, you can get an idea by looking at many South Slavs (save Bulgarians and Macedonians, who are more representative for the southern Balkans) except that the pre-Slavic populations of the Western Balkans had less blond hair and light eyes. The pictures above are called cherry-picking.

In any case I don't see them having light brown hair and light eyes. They had for sure brown eyes, dark hair, and pale skin tone. Pretty much as the guy I posted.

 

[Hioloi]

Albanians have the highest percentage of Paleo-Balkan auDNA aswell as male uniparental DNA namely: E1b-V13, R1b-Z2103, J2b-L283 and R1b-PF7562>PF7563 and mtDNA.

FYI: @norbert and @Who Cares? are Serbian bots who propagate Slavic autochthonist ideas e. g. claiming Slavs resemble Western Paleo-Balkan folks like Illyrians with whom they neither share Y-DNA (J2b-L283 in Illyrians) nor mtDNA or auDNA. For the Central- and Eastern Balkans the same story applies, kind of, Slavs have absorbed some E1b-V13 for instance and some minor Z2103>Z2705 due to mixing with Albanians.

Slavs living in the Balkans carry mainly Slavic auDNA and uniparental DNA I-Y3120 and R1a-M417+.

Fml I'm I-Z17855

But yeah majority of Albanians have Paleo Balkan haplos. As far as I know average Albanian is 75-80% Paleo Balkan and 20% Slavic. It gets lesser when you only take the Ghegs in consideration. I've seen some Ghegs who had 5-10% Slavic. Basically nothing.

 

[mount123]

In any case I don't see them having light brown hair and light eyes. They had for sure brown eyes, dark hair, and pale skin tone. Pretty much as the guy I posted.

The guy you posted is a Slav, Bosnian Serb to be more exact. Why are you so obsessed with appropriating Paleo-Balkan ancestry or in this case Illyrians when you're clearly Slavic? He has zero in common with the Illyrian population that lived there during BA-IA-early CE. Give it a rest.

So no those J2b-L283 BA-IA gents didn't look like frickin Djokovic, Ratko Mladic, Milosevic or Vucic.

 

[Hawk]

This group look like a mix of Romanians and Bulgarians. Definitively not western Balkan looking (Illyrians). Maybe Thracians or something like that.

Romanians and Bulgarians are primarily Slavic in autosomal, but they do have Thracian, and i do believe Bulgarians have slightly more, even on uniparental where E-V13 is more prominent in Bulgaria.

You have tomb paintings of Thracians in Alexandrovo mound.

This one looks exotic i would say, probably quite a lot of Aegean-Anatolian autosomal.

These ones were most likely more common

Also, looking at King Seuthes III sculpture, he had quite a Dinaric look.

 

[mount123]

Fml I'm I-Z17855

But yeah majority of Albanians have Paleo Balkan haplos. As far as I know average Albanian is 75-80% Paleo Balkan and 20% Slavic. It gets lesser when you only take the Ghegs in consideration. I've seen some Ghegs who had 5-10% Slavic. Basically nothing.

You're not just your father's line obviously your family tree is filled with Paleo-Balkan Y-DNAs and mtDNAs since you're Albanian. Some Slavic lines have been absorbed and expanded with Albanians since the medieval era. Nothing tragic about that.

Yes, correct, Albanians carry minimum 75%-90% Paleo-Balkan Y-DNA depending on the region.

 

[Who Cares?]

They guy you posted is a Slav, Bosnian Serb to be more exact. Why are you so obsessed with appropriating Paleo-Balkan ancestry or in this case Illyrians when you're clearly Slavic? He has zero in common with the Illyrian population that lived there during BA-IA-early CE. Give it a rest.

So no those J2b-L283 BA-IA gents didn't look like frickin Djokovic, Ratko Mladic, Milosevic or Vucic.

Because Illyrian core was in south Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro. Albania was borderland region. Also the guy I posted does not look like Slav, and only other people that were present in southern parts of Bosnia, where he is from, were Illyrians.

 

[mount123]

Because Illyrian core was in south Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro. Albania was borderland region. Also the guy I posted does not look like Slav, and only other people that were present in southern parts of Bosnia, where he is from, were Illyrians.

Mate you're embarrassing yourself with this pseudoscientific BS. Albanians have the highest (especially Malësia e Madhe), amount of Illyrian haplogroup J2b-L283. Whatever was left of the Illyrians in the Western Balkans northwest of Albania and Malësia was totally wiped out by the Slavic migrants and reduced to a minimum.

The most common Paleo-Balkan Y-DNA in Herzegovinian Serbs is E1b-V13. The fat bald headed Serb you posted looks like a swarthy Slav, nothing else.

 

[Who Cares?]

Mate you're embarrassing yourself with this pseudoscientific BS. Albanians have the highest (especially Malësia e Madhe), amount of Illyrian haplogroup J2b-L283. Whatever was left of the Illyrians in the Western Balkans northwest of Albania and Malësia was totally wiped out by the Slavic migrants and reduced to a minimum.

The most common Paleo-Balkan Y-DNA in Herzegovinian Serbs is E1b-V13. The fat bald headed Serb you posted looks like a swarthy Slav, nothing else.

Does Illyrian Y DNA haplogroup make you Illyrian?
I have supposedly Slavic haplogroup and my genetic distance is not even close to average Bulgarian, let alone Serb or Bosnian