Italian vs Emilian

Angela

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I wonder if some of our Romance language speakers understand 1) the Italian without the translation into English 2) the Emilian. As far as I'm concerned, it's a separate language.

I'm providing the English translation first. On the video you can hear the pronunciation of the Italian, which may make understanding harder, and then the Emilian.

I should add this isn't the Emilian of my grandparents; it's of the lowlands. Their speech is described as "Mountain Languages". I have to say the Emilian of the lowlands is less understandable to a Tuscan speaker.

Mi riposo I’m resting
Tieni stretto=hold tight
Faccio presto-I’ll hurry, do it fast
C’e caldo-It’s hot
Excomunitario-stranger, foreigner, not of our community
Eh? Huh? What?
Lo Conosci?-Do you know him?
Mi fai ridere-You make me laugh
Piscio-I’m urinating
Usa la corda per farci un nodo-Use the rope to make the knot
Sei fisicamente diformato-You’re physically deformed
Metteti le scarpe-Put on your shoes
Prendilo con te-Bring it with you
Gli uccellini cantano-the birds are singing
E ora di mangiare-It’s time to eat
E insipido-It’s tasteless
Andiamo nel bosco a raccogliere le more-Let’s go into the woods to gather the blackberries
Aprilo-Open it
Ti apro in due-I’ll split you open?
Passami la grattugia-Pass me the grater
Stronzo-well, literally like a piece of s***. I hate how often Italians use this
Ci credo bene-I really believe it. (I believe it well.)
E soffice-It’s soft
E pieno di topi-It’s full of mice
Mi stringono I pantaloni-My pants are too tight, but literally my pants squeeze me
Io lavoro-I work
Oggi c’e il sole-Today the sun is shining
E marcio-It’s rotten
Muffa-mold
Ho sonno-I’m sleepy
Corona-crown
Abito in un bel borgo=I live in a beautiful village
E bagnato-It’s wet
Svolto a sinistra-I turned left
Raccontami qualcosa di bello-Tell me something nice
Si sentono I tuoni-I hear thunder (One hears thunder or Thunder can be heard)
Non andarci attorno-Don’t go near them
Ci sono degli zingari-There are gypsies
In giardino ho un bel albero di melograni-In the garden I have a beautiful pomegranate tree
Sporco che non sei altro-You’re so dirty (Imagine complete disgust! :))
Vieni dentro=Come inside
Stiamo facendo la torta=We’re making pie
Ne vuoi un pezzo? Do you want a piece?


 
The ear must get used to the speed and the accent in the sentences. It gets easier every time you listen to it.
At first, I only understood a few words, ... the more I listen to it, the more I can identify the words, but not all, and I wouldn’t know the meaning of some of the words without translation :)

More than half of the sentences are too different from Italian to be understood, ... especially by Central and Southern Italians for sure.
 
As Salento implied, if you really know Italian well and you just listen to Emilian words and phrases a few times you can pick out some of it, but I think even for most Northern Italians it's less intelligible than the language of the Veneto.

The only reason I can understand a lot of it is because I sometimes heard my nonni speak in a version of it, and I visited my Emilian relatives quite often. Also, our local dialect has a lot of Emilian influence. As for speaking it? Not a chance. :)

As I said, I think Emilian is as much a separate language as Venetian or Sicilian. Indeed, it may be more unintelligible to most Italians than the latter two. Genovese or Zenese is still "King" of mutual unintelligibility perhaps.

Btw, I didn't agree with one of the Italian translations. A tal degh doesn't really mean Ci credo, or I believe it. It sort of means "I told you so", or "I'm telling you", i.e. it's the truth. From Ti dico?

I'm not sure of the etymology of "i bregh" for pants; perhaps from a similar root to "breeches"? A Prest for presto is used in our local dialect, as is "a ghe" for there is.

Zenese...I understand at the most about 40-50% of it without help.

Lunigianese...well, Pontremolese from the northern part of the territory. I think it should be very intelligible to Italian speakers and a lot of it even to Romance speakers in general.

 
Educating the ears, Angela, as you and Salento stressed, is very important. That's what happens when I'm listening to Portuguese from Portugal. It is just a matter of getting your ears used to the Europeans' way of pronouncing, since the words are identical. Brazilians are more used to hearing Spanish from our Latin American neighbors and, in this sense, initially, they find European Portuguese very difficult to understand. But, effectively, the vocabulary, grammar and spelling are practically identical and it is only a matter of the Brazilian to listen more carefully and more frequently to European Portuguese. While television productions in Brazil are widely shown in Portugal, the opposite is not true. Virtually none of what is produced in terms of culture in Portugal is shown in Brazil. The Brazilian has a habit of listening and trying to communicate in Spanish, speaking what is popularly called portunhol, and no habit of listening to European Portuguese. Currently, cultural exchange between the two countries is minimal and Brazilians who like to venture into the brother country, including to attend their colleges, are not the most economically-favored. (y):)
 
Educating the ears, Angela, as you and Salento stressed, is very important. That's what happens when I'm listening to Portuguese from Portugal. It is just a matter of getting your ears used to the Europeans' way of pronouncing, since the words are identical. Brazilians are more used to hearing Spanish from our Latin American neighbors and, in this sense, initially, they find European Portuguese very difficult to understand. But, effectively, the vocabulary, grammar and spelling are practically identical and it is only a matter of the Brazilian to listen more carefully and more frequently to European Portuguese. While television productions in Brazil are widely shown in Portugal, the opposite is not true. Virtually none of what is produced in terms of culture in Portugal is shown in Brazil. The Brazilian has a habit of listening and trying to communicate in Spanish, speaking what is popularly called portunhol, and no habit of listening to European Portuguese. Currently, cultural exchange between the two countries is minimal and Brazilians who like to venture into the brother country, including to attend their colleges, are not the most economically-favored. (y):)

I'm surprised by that. Why wouldn't Portugal try to sell it's programming to Brazil? I know that some Brazilians go to settle in Brazil, because I see that some of the Portuguese immigrants to the U.S. sometimes have Brazilian ancestry. Does it go the other way? Do Portuguese people still come to settle in Brazil?

The language situation with, say, Emilian and Italian is different in some ways from what you describe. Some of the vocabulary is actually different, which makes it more difficult for mutual intelligibility, i.e. bregh for trousers or pants (pantaloni).
 
I'm surprised by that. Why wouldn't Portugal try to sell it's programming to Brazil? I know that some Brazilians go to settle in Brazil, because I see that some of the Portuguese immigrants to the U.S. sometimes have Brazilian ancestry. Does it go the other way? Do Portuguese people still come to settle in Brazil?

The language situation with, say, Emilian and Italian is different in some ways from what you describe. Some of the vocabulary is actually different, which makes it more difficult for mutual intelligibility, i.e. bregh for trousers or pants (pantaloni).

Many Portuguese accuse Brazilians of isolationism, in the sense that they like to consume only what is produced in their own country. This is particularly true in music. In the last 10 or 15 years, the migratory flow between the two countries has been reversed. More Brazilians go to Portugal than the other way around. However, if this number of Brazilians arriving in Portugal for us is absolutely insignificant, for Portugal, a country that has only about 10,000,000 inhabitants, that number is significant. In the universities of Porto, especially, Brazilians have been victims of xenophobia and racism, including refer to Brazilian women as merchandise.:unsure:
 
Emiliano is really a different language. If not for the subtitles, I would not have understood anything. Even Romanian is more understandable to me. That said, some words from Emiliano caught my attention with a certain resemblance to Spanish words.
Corda = Souga = Soga.
Chiudelo = Serrel = Cièrralo.
Pantaloni = Bregh = Bragas (panties or sometimes pants).
È bagnato = L'e moj = està mojado
 
Emiliano is really a different language. If not for the subtitles, I would not have understood anything. Even Romanian is more understandable to me. That said, some words from Emiliano caught my attention with a certain resemblance to Spanish words.
Corda = Souga = Soga.
Chiudelo = Serrel = Cièrralo.
Pantaloni = Bregh = Bragas (panties or sometimes pants).
È bagnato = L'e moj = està mojado

That's a very astute observation and what I was hoping I would get as feedback. :)

One way of dividing the Romance languages is splitting them into "Western Romance" and "Eastern Romance". Tuscan is part of the Eastern Romance group, and therefore so is standard Italian. All the languages or dialects north of Toscana are "Western Romance" languages, and I was wondering if some of the words in Emilian or Zenese etc. are by origin from "Western Romance" sources.
main-qimg-f9da697d9b75ac74d8302226e8c3b025


If anyone sees anymore, please let me know. I'm just very curious about the origin of some of the words completely unrelated to the Tuscan or standard Italian word.

I was raised in the border area just north of the La Spezia/Rimini line so my accent I think sounds both a bit Tuscan and a bit Emilian. I certainly don't have the, to me, ugly "gorgia" where Florentines change some "C" sounds to "H" sounds.:)
 
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The lombard language in the link in post #9 is the same as Verona ............she is from Cremona which is East Lombardy , under the venetian republic for 300 years plus

same as Istriot ( Istria ) below ...........similar to coastal Venetian of Jesolo and Caorle areas

https://omniglot.com/writing/istriot.htm
 
It is interesting that in Romanian, at first sight, although I do not know the Italian language, I can partially or fully understand most of the words and sentences exemplified in both language variants.

It makes complete sense to me that you can understand Italian. I had occasion once to work with a Romanian colleague for quite a while. After listening for a few days I started to get a rough understanding of what she was saying in Romanian.

I'm a bit surprised you can understand the Emiliano, as the intrusive words in Romanian would be Slavic in origin, and our intrusive words would be Gallic in origin. You must have an astute ear. :)
 
That's a very astute observation and what I was hoping I would get as feedback. :)

One way of dividing the Romance languages is splitting them into "Western Romance" and "Eastern Romance". Tuscan is part of the Eastern Romance group, and therefore so is standard Italian. All the languages or dialects north of Toscana are "Western Romance" languages, and I was wondering if some of the words in Emilian or Zenese etc. are by origin from "Western Romance" sources.
main-qimg-f9da697d9b75ac74d8302226e8c3b025


If anyone sees anymore, please let me know. I'm just very curious about the origin of some of the words completely unrelated to the Tuscan or standard Italian word.

I was raised in the border area just north of the La Spezia/Rimini line so my accent I think sounds both a bit Tuscan and a bit Emilian. I certainly don't have the, to me, ugly "gorgia" where Florentines change some "C" sounds to "H" sounds.:)


Thanks Angela!
Other things that I have noticed, are some similarities with Veneto: the use of the particle "dre", similar to "drio" in Veneto, equivalent to the ending "ndo" (like "cantando"), the word "inco" ( as "Uncuò-Uncò = Today" in Veneto). The word "braghese" = pants is also used in Veneto. This word, which is also equivalent to the Spanish "bragas", comes from the Latin "braccae", and in turn, derives from the word that the Gauls used to denominate their pants.
 
Thanks Angela!
Other things that I have noticed, are some similarities with Veneto: the use of the particle "dre", similar to "drio" in Veneto, equivalent to the ending "ndo" (like "cantando"), the word "inco" ( as "Uncuò-Uncò = Today" in Veneto). The word "braghese" = pants is also used in Veneto. This word, which is also equivalent to the Spanish "bragas", comes from the Latin "braccae", and in turn, derives from the word that the Gauls used to denominate their pants.

Drio in veneto has the following meanings, depends on what you use it for

-behind, after, rear

-along

-doing


Brage or Pantalon ............say thing



https://www.amazon.com/Venetian-English-English-Venetian-When-Venice-Venetians/dp/1425987907
 
I made a list of words and sentences that I think have a certain degree of similarity with those in Romanian, which have the same meaning as those in Italian and Emilian. Here are 39 of the 43 in the movie:

- Mi riposo - Am arpouns - Am repaos. or Mă repauzez.
- Tieni stretto - tin strech - Ține strâns.
- Faccio presto - A fagh prest - O fac presat de timp.
- C’e caldo - A ghe cheld - Ce cald e.
- Excomunitario - Extracomuniter - Extracomunitar
- Eh? - Ah? - Ha?
- Lo Conosci? - Tal cgnosset? - Îl cunoști?
- Mi fai ridere - At'm fe reder - Mă faci a râde.
- Piscio - A pess - piș
- Usa la corda per farci un nodo - Drova la souga per feregh al groapp - Folosește coarda (or șnurul) pentru a face un nod.
- Emiliano - Emiliân - Emilian
- Sei fisicamente diformato - T'ė taie col rouns - Esti deformat fizic.
- Prendilo con te - Tol tegh - Prinde-l cu tine.
- E ora di mangiare - L'e oura ed magner - E ora de mâncat.
- E insipido - L'e tseved - E insipid. E sarbed. /searbăd/sărbăt
- Andiamo nel bosco a raccogliere le more - Andomm in tal bosch a tor so al mour - Aidem in boscheți să culegem mure.
- Chiudilo - Strecchel - Închide-l - The word Streche exists in Romanian but refers to a state of extreme agitation of some animals that appears after the bite of some insects.
- Ti apro in due - A te sbregh - Te crăp in doua. Te sparg. (?)
- Passami la grattugia - Pasem la razoura - Pasează-mi Răzătoarea.
- Stronzo - Strouns - , stranță, ștroamfă, zdroanță, zdreanță.
- Ci credo bene - A tal degh - Cred bine.
- Mi stringono I pantaloni - I me bregh i strechen - Mă strâng pantalonii. (again "streche" :))
- Io lavoro - Me a lavour - In Romanian there are the nouns labor and laboare which means hard, exhausting work.
- Oggi c’e il sole - Inco a ghe al soul - Azi e soare
- Muffa - Moafa - mușiță, mucoare, mucegai
- Ho sonno - A gho soann - Mi-e somn/soamne.
- Roma - Roama. A vagh a Roama (vado a Roama) - Am vad spre Roma.
- Corona - Curouna - coroană, coronă, corună
- E bagnato - L'e moj - "L'e moj" is similar to "Le moi" which means in Romanian, wet, soaked, moisten them or put something in the water.
- Svolto a sinistra - A voult a sinestra - Voltă la stânga
- Raccontami qualcosa di bello - Countem quell ed boun - Contăm pe ceva bun.
- Si sentono I tuoni - Is senten i troun - Se simte tunit/tunet
- Non andarci attorno - Anderegh mia atouren ân - Îndărăt, întoarnă -te. (both romanian words are a call for someone to not continue his path and returns back to the place he had left)
- Ci sono degli zingari - A ghe i sengher - Sunt țigani.
- In giardino ho un bel albero di melograni - In giardein a gho un bel elber ed pommegraner - În grădină am un frumos arbore de rodiu.
- Sporco che non sei altro - Sacloun ca't ne eter - Spurcat ca nimeni alt. or Spurcat cum nu e altul.
- Vieni dentro - Vin deinter - Vin de intră.
- Stiamo facendo la torta - A somme dre a fer la tourta - Stăm și facem turta. or Știm să facem turta/tort.
- Ne vuoi un pezzo? - A n'in vot un pcoun? Nu vrei un pic? or Nu ai vrut un picuț?

Very interesting! In a good number of cases Romanian seems to be closer to Italian (Tuscan), and in other cases it's closer to Emilian!

Between the two, no wonder after a few days my "ear" adjusted and I was able to understand quite a bit. :)
 
Is Genovese maybe more intelligible to Italian and Romance speakers than Emilian?


The English translation:
Umbre de muri muri de mainé
dunde ne vegnì duve l'è ch'ané
da 'n scitu duve a l'ûn-a a se mustra nûa
e a neutte a n'à puntou u cutellu ä gua
e a muntä l'àse gh'é restou Diu
u Diàu l'é in çë e u s'è gh'è faetu u nìu
ne sciurtìmmu da u mä pe sciugà e osse da u Dria
e a funtan-a di cumbi 'nta cä de pria
E 'nt'a cä de pria chi ghe saià
int'à cä du Dria che u nu l'è mainà
gente de Lûgan facce da mandillä
qui che du luassu preferiscian l'ä
figge de famiggia udù de bun
che ti peu ammiàle senza u gundun
E a 'ste panse veue cose ghe daià
cose da beive, cose da mangiä
frittûa de pigneu giancu de Purtufin
çervelle de bae 'nt'u meximu vin
lasagne da fiddià ai quattru tucchi
paciûgu in aegruduse de lévre de cuppi
E 'nt'a barca du vin ghe naveghiemu 'nsc'i scheuggi
emigranti du rìe cu'i cioi 'nt'i euggi
finché u matin crescià da puéilu rechéugge
frè di ganeuffeni e dè figge
bacan d'a corda marsa d'aegua e de sä
che a ne liga e a ne porta 'nte 'na creuza de mä.

Shadows of faces faces of sailors
where you come from where are you going
from a place where the moon is shown naked
and the night pointed the knife at our throat
and to mount the donkey is still God
The Devil is in heaven and there he built the nest
we leave the sea to dry Andrea's bones
the fountain of the doves in the stone house.
And in the stone house guests will be
in Andrea's house that is not Sailor
people of Lugano faces pickpocket
those who prefer the wing of the bass
girls of the family, the smell of good
you can watch them without a condom.
And what will give to these empty bellies
what to drink, what to eat
fried fish, white Portofino
lamb brains in the same wine
lasagne to be cut to four sauces
pasticcio of sweet and sour rabbit with tiles.
And we will sail in the boat of wine on the rocks
emigrants of laughter with nails in our eyes
until the morning will grow that you can collect
brother of carnations and of girls
Lord of the rope running water and salt
that binds us and brings us into a creuza de mä *.
* The "Creuza de mä" is in Genoese dialect a suburban street that runs between two walls that usually determine the property boundaries





 
Is Genovese maybe more intelligible to Italian and Romance speakers than Emilian?


The English translation:
Umbre de muri muri de mainé
dunde ne vegnì duve l'è ch'ané
da 'n scitu duve a l'ûn-a a se mustra nûa
e a neutte a n'à puntou u cutellu ä gua
e a muntä l'àse gh'é restou Diu
u Diàu l'é in çë e u s'è gh'è faetu u nìu
ne sciurtìmmu da u mä pe sciugà e osse da u Dria
e a funtan-a di cumbi 'nta cä de pria
E 'nt'a cä de pria chi ghe saià
int'à cä du Dria che u nu l'è mainà
gente de Lûgan facce da mandillä
qui che du luassu preferiscian l'ä
figge de famiggia udù de bun
che ti peu ammiàle senza u gundun
E a 'ste panse veue cose ghe daià
cose da beive, cose da mangiä
frittûa de pigneu giancu de Purtufin
çervelle de bae 'nt'u meximu vin
lasagne da fiddià ai quattru tucchi
paciûgu in aegruduse de lévre de cuppi
E 'nt'a barca du vin ghe naveghiemu 'nsc'i scheuggi
emigranti du rìe cu'i cioi 'nt'i euggi
finché u matin crescià da puéilu rechéugge
frè di ganeuffeni e dè figge
bacan d'a corda marsa d'aegua e de sä
che a ne liga e a ne porta 'nte 'na creuza de mä.

Shadows of faces faces of sailors
where you come from where are you going
from a place where the moon is shown naked
and the night pointed the knife at our throat
and to mount the donkey is still God
The Devil is in heaven and there he built the nest
we leave the sea to dry Andrea's bones
the fountain of the doves in the stone house.
And in the stone house guests will be
in Andrea's house that is not Sailor
people of Lugano faces pickpocket
those who prefer the wing of the bass
girls of the family, the smell of good
you can watch them without a condom.
And what will give to these empty bellies
what to drink, what to eat
fried fish, white Portofino
lamb brains in the same wine
lasagne to be cut to four sauces
pasticcio of sweet and sour rabbit with tiles.
And we will sail in the boat of wine on the rocks
emigrants of laughter with nails in our eyes
until the morning will grow that you can collect
brother of carnations and of girls
Lord of the rope running water and salt
that binds us and brings us into a creuza de mä *.
* The "Creuza de mä" is in Genoese dialect a suburban street that runs between two walls that usually determine the property boundaries

... to me they’re both difficult to grasp,
... and though I’m familiar with the song, if i close my eyes, besides a few sentences, I still can’t understand most of it :)
 
Is Genovese maybe more intelligible to Italian and Romance speakers than Emilian?


The English translation:
Umbre de muri muri de mainé
dunde ne vegnì duve l'è ch'ané
da 'n scitu duve a l'ûn-a a se mustra nûa
e a neutte a n'à puntou u cutellu ä gua
e a muntä l'àse gh'é restou Diu
u Diàu l'é in çë e u s'è gh'è faetu u nìu
ne sciurtìmmu da u mä pe sciugà e osse da u Dria
e a funtan-a di cumbi 'nta cä de pria
E 'nt'a cä de pria chi ghe saià
int'à cä du Dria che u nu l'è mainà
gente de Lûgan facce da mandillä
qui che du luassu preferiscian l'ä
figge de famiggia udù de bun
che ti peu ammiàle senza u gundun
E a 'ste panse veue cose ghe daià
cose da beive, cose da mangiä
frittûa de pigneu giancu de Purtufin
çervelle de bae 'nt'u meximu vin
lasagne da fiddià ai quattru tucchi
paciûgu in aegruduse de lévre de cuppi
E 'nt'a barca du vin ghe naveghiemu 'nsc'i scheuggi
emigranti du rìe cu'i cioi 'nt'i euggi
finché u matin crescià da puéilu rechéugge
frè di ganeuffeni e dè figge
bacan d'a corda marsa d'aegua e de sä
che a ne liga e a ne porta 'nte 'na creuza de mä.

Shadows of faces faces of sailors
where you come from where are you going
from a place where the moon is shown naked
and the night pointed the knife at our throat
and to mount the donkey is still God
The Devil is in heaven and there he built the nest
we leave the sea to dry Andrea's bones
the fountain of the doves in the stone house.
And in the stone house guests will be
in Andrea's house that is not Sailor
people of Lugano faces pickpocket
those who prefer the wing of the bass
girls of the family, the smell of good
you can watch them without a condom.
And what will give to these empty bellies
what to drink, what to eat
fried fish, white Portofino
lamb brains in the same wine
lasagne to be cut to four sauces
pasticcio of sweet and sour rabbit with tiles.
And we will sail in the boat of wine on the rocks
emigrants of laughter with nails in our eyes
until the morning will grow that you can collect
brother of carnations and of girls
Lord of the rope running water and salt
that binds us and brings us into a creuza de mä *.
* The "Creuza de mä" is in Genoese dialect a suburban street that runs between two walls that usually determine the property boundaries






Unfortunately, in my country the visualization of this video is not authorized due to copyright.
From what I can read, I understand single words and parts of sentences. I can understand more than in Emiliano ... but I also find it difficult ...
 

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