Hmm interesting and yes there was all different kind of hair and eye colour around that time and it has not changed much to the present day.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexfritz
Printable View
Hmm interesting and yes there was all different kind of hair and eye colour around that time and it has not changed much to the present day.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexfritz
That was the first reaction then that reaction now my reactionQuote:
Originally Posted by davef
The user named srdceleva a Slovenian says that Neolithic farmers are like Ashkenazi Jews and Middle Easterners along with Greeks and Sicilians. Greeks Macedonians and Montenegrin is apart of the Balkans last time I checkedQuote:
Originally Posted by alexfritz
He also said that a half Serbian half English would plot in Austria he is delusional maybe you could message him for me as my private messaging service doesn't work
Slovakian whatever
I swear to every god, goddess and all the other dudes with super magical powers, this has got to be one of the most comical threads I have ever, ever seen
The only thing that's comical is that my private messages have now been blocked. alexfritzQuote:
Originally Posted by davef
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/images...ser-online.png Do you think Italians even Southern should deal with that crap?
to be honest, the way i understand it is that there truly is a strong continuity between neolithic farmers (anatolia_n) and modern people of the mediterranean region incl greeks, jews, italians etc.; yet more so retained in modern south europeans (specially sards) than in modern anatolians/levantines as omrak et al explained there were more/further population movements/changes within that region thus altering the genome as can be seen in lazaridis et al already in bronze age 2800-1800bc anatolia_ba; cassidy et al affinity(allele sharing) heat-map of neolithic-farmers and modern day popsQuote:
Originally Posted by Lenab
https://i.imgur.com/1DkA0dl.png
Anything to do with the Balkans is comical because on how everyone reacts to it!!Quote:
Originally Posted by davef
It's the same as people calling Spanish ''Moors'' that type of language isn't usually tolerated with Spanish, especially the more Far Right type if you catch my driftQuote:
Originally Posted by AdeoF
Yeah I know but hey every/most ethnics don't like to be called something that doesn't mean anything to them like the moors you said. Meh just ignore it and move on. A lot of people need to do that sometimes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenab
Lenab, consider yourself warned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litovoi
Prove your claim with genetic data about migration of I2a1CTS10228 from Romania to Bosnia.
For now, from his haplotype it is evident that he has an male ancestor(I2a1CTS10228) in White Croatia, that's the only thing we know for now, if you have other information show me.
As far as autosomal data is concerned apparently his distant ancestor in the male line after arrival to the Balkans (probably south eastern part) was mixed with Vlachs, Albanian, Romanians, Bulgarians, Greeks..? and this is now evident, very likely with Vlachs groups coming to Bosnia.
However, there is still mutation or ancestor with a source in White Croatia.
From where it comes to Bosnia, when and with whom his male ancestor mixed we will see in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziratul
For now that migration or connection genetics (Y haplotype) does not prove. If you have genetic evidence that proves migration of I2a peoples from Balkans to White Croatia prove it, until then it is not true.
You have Y haplotype and history records and prove this, until then it's a fairy tale.Quote:
Albanian claim on Illyrian heritage is ... laughable at least.. they are Greeks from Sicily who are rejected by their own people.
CTS10228 is at least 2000 years old, so it is very possible that existed in Romanian territory (Dacian back then), and Bosnian territory (Dalmatian back then) in the same time because of the inter mixing between Dacians, Illyrians and Thracians. The same could be the interaction between Dacians and White Croatians (they weren’t called like that back then) that made possible for another mutation: I-Y3548 (age: 1458 ybp) that could be connected with White Croatia.Quote:
Originally Posted by hrvat22
Sent from my iPad using Eupedia Forum
CTS10228 is at least 2000 years old, and probably existed throughout a vast area because of Dacians/ Thracians. Dacian tribes were pushed probably even more to the Nord because of the expansion of the Roman Empire (after the fall of Decebalus, the Dacian King). I-Y3548 (age: 1458ybp) could be attributed to the White Croatians. Was the I-Y3548 mutation later on possible, because of the earlier movement of the Dacian Tribes to the North? Maybe... unfortunately we can only assume or presume... no scientific evidence yet...
The Roman Balkans was not a very urbanized region,according to Tibor Zivkovic about 10% of Moesia Prima's population lived in the cities,but it had certain important centers clustered on the Danube,such as Sirmium,Singidunum and Viminacium,plus Naissus,which was the node that connected Rome(through Adriatic) and Constantinople with this area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonomyro
OBVIOUSLY,some of those 90% have started very soon to let their marks,not only in these cities,but in the entire Roman world,we are talking of things like the Mala Kopasnica-Sase graves or the Danubian rider cult.
https://books.google.ro/books?id=pLJ...1%3A10&f=false
http://web.b.ebscohost.com/abstract?...AN%3d119163735
EDIT
Not only that the dispersion of the Roman towns in the Balkans is uneven,but the Vlachs are later recorded EXACTLY near them ,see the Crusaders Chronicle from 1189, where we have vicus Ravana,today's Cuprija on Morava,Medieval Ravno,Roman Horreum Margi,and vicus Nifa,Nis,not to mention Kekaumenos,"Vlachs...who once lived along the Danube and Sava".
https://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&sourc..._8ZAlAfURfLSQ6
Another connection that can be made,the proximity between Justiniana Prima-Lebane and the Vlach bishopric from 1020,Vreanoti,today's Vranje.
http://docplayer.net/54282834-Aleksa...d-desiska.html
These articles prove the very strong relations between Moesia and Dacia Traiana.
It is not that surprising,since you could have passed into Trajan's Dacia only from Moesia Superior.
http://historymaps.ro/wp-content/upl...ia_Romanab.png
L621 under I2-Din to which the majority of Balkan I2 is derived, is a VERY YOUNG branch, that is descended from a Medieval Pole.Quote:
Originally Posted by ziratul
Albanians on the other hand have a preponderance of native Neolithic Lineages(regardless of what classical peoples it belonged to.
A lot of people want that I-CTS10228 carriers are Thracian origin, but in reality this assumption cannot be supported.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumidre
About 1000 BC and earlier I-CTS10228 carriers were in the north of Europe, most probably in the Baltic region of today's Germany, it is time before than they arrived in upper Vistula region and surrounding.
They were Mesolithic survivors, whose ancestors long time ago were much more widespread in Europe, but unfortunately they had bottleneck.
Irony of destiny, it is possible R1a tribes pushed them to the south, it means in that time they were antagonists.
Gubin culture of Jastorf group probably were culture of these people, I1 carriers had influx and probably Germanic language is result of these impact.
And Croats are far from these areas, Croatian scientists highlight that Croat is Iranian name and original Croats were Iranian, some other scientists claim some other origin (Turkish, Bulgarian etc.) but it doesn't matter areas of original Croats are very very far from areas where I-CTS10228 lived and moved.
So, I-CTS10228 carriers were not Thracian, Illyiran, Slavic, Iranian Croat etc.
I-CTS10228 carriers were European Mesolithic survivors and they became Germanized due to impact of I1 carriers.
Bastarnae were the most likely bearers these genetics (and maybe to a lesser extent Scirii), only later when they moved from the Vistula river to the east they came in contact and mixed with Dacians/Thracins (they first entered in Balkans 179 BC) and Sarmatians, and centuries after that, after Zarubintsy culture, their descendants participated in Kiev culture and ethnogenesis of Slavs.
"Original" Croats were Slavs. Their personal names, language and religion was Slavic since they were first time mentioned in the sources. The places called after Croatian etnhnonym were found in the areas where the historical sources mention Slavs or where the first slavic states emerged, Serbia included.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrick
Croatian ethnonym itself is, however, most probably of Iranian origin, but the slavic word for "god" is as well. All that strongly support the Slavic origin of Croats (or vice versa, who knows). The proposed area of the Croatian origin fits pretty well with the area of highest diversity of the I-CTS10228 subclade, as well as with the area of the earliest Slavic toponymy. Present day Croats are descendants of these Croats and autochtonous population of Panonia and Dalmatia who were a minority at the time of Croatian arrival.
Names of Croatian leaders from VII century were Kluk, Muhol, Kosen, Lovel, Tuga and Vuga and that names are not Slavic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonomyro
These were the names of legendary characters, not of the real leaders. The names of the leaders (historicly proven) were Slavic, with some germanic influence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
Don't misinterpret the sources. That will bring you nowhere.
Why Croatian legendary characters have weird non-slavic names?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonomyro
Maby names such as Kluk, Muhol, Lovel and Kosen exist in Iran. :laughing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...Iranian_theory
https://youtu.be/d36HxKDJ1i8
Maybe yes, maybe not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
If you don't understand how Slavs could have legends with "foreign names" in them, try to explain yourself why Christian Serbs today have names of Jewish origin.
All Christians have "Jewish" or biblical names, that is normal because of religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonomyro
But why Croats from VII century have non-slavic names?
Kluk, Muhol, Kosen and Lovel are maybe Iranic and maybe Turkic, these names are not Slavic without any doubt.
Proto-Croatians were not Slavs, they were of Iranic or Turkic origin, word Croat is not of Slavic origin and many Croatian historians say that.
Use the same logic here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
The names are of unknown origin. That could be place names as well. Many peoples had similar legends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
These are the speculations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
Nobody knows what "Proto-Croatians" were or were not. We know that the first Croats confirmed in history in 9th century and had Slavic names, spoke Slavic language, called "Slavs" by others, and had the Slavic Perun cult.
The hill called Perun is still there, above the former seat of the Croatian kings. In the past there were more of such names: https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perun_(brdo)
The I2a that Croats have is not originaly Indo-European origin and that may be just a proof for that. For Kluk, Muhol, Kosen and Lovel we do not know the origin of that names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hervar..._Hei%C3%B0reksQuote:
However, this verse is similar to the one in Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks (13th century), where prior the battle between Goths and Huns,
http://www.germanicmythology.com/FOR...ARKERSHAW.htmlQuote:
King had twelve sons. The eldest was Angantyr, then Hervarth, then Hjörvarth,
Then maybe and the Goths are Iranians, therefore genetics is clearly said that Croats have nothing to do with Iranians, for ethnonym Croat we will see in the future from where, with whom and when it comes to Azov and then we will bring some conclusion.
Yes, we don't know origin of that names, but they are not Slavic neither Germanic for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by hrvat22
Who were Croats which are mentioned near Azov it's not clear, but one thing is slear, that Coats from Azov were not same people as Croats from early middle age.Quote:
Originally Posted by hrvat22
Croats from early middle age were Slavs which adopted Croatian name from non-Slavic Croars.
Non-Slavic proto-Croats probably were small military elite which were conquest some Slavic tribes and that Slavic tribes adopted Croatian name.
Real non-Slavic Croats (proto-Croats) were not I2a-Din and R1a-M458/Z280 without any doubt, they probably have some non-European haplogroups.
It is possible that Croats in the seventh century came from Africa to Croatia, therefore you have no historical and genetic data to confirm your claims or to translate you talk fairytales without proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
@Bachus,
Here is the text from DAI:
You dropped the most important name: Chrobatos.Quote:
Kloukas and Lobelos and Kosentzis and Mouchlo and Chrobatos, and two sisters, Touga and Bouga
The Lusatian Sorbs have a legend about a wizzard called Krabat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krabat
Maybe Lusatian Sorbs have the "Iranian or Turkic" origin too? What do you think?
Traces of non-Slavic proto-Croatians are probably high percentage of mongoloid haplogroup Q in the islands Korčula and Hvar.Quote:
Originally Posted by hrvat22
In Korčula and Hvar exist also Asiatic mt DNA.
hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Genomi_neslavenskih_Hrvata
http://hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Mitohon...plogrupe_J_i_T
@ Wonomyro
Krabat is not related with Croatians, of course that Lusatian Serbs don't have Turkic or Iranic origin.
Please, @Bachus, stop behave like an evil little gnome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
There are no "mongoloid" haplogroups. Do you think that you are going to "discredit" Croats with your racist prejudices?
The reputation of your "source" is trash. Don't provoke me to call moderator.
Anyway, how could one of many populated Croatian islands explain origin of Croats as a whole?
Krabat is typical germanized archaic form of Croatian ethnonym.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
No, Croats come from White Croatia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
Until today it is not denied with historical record and genetics and this is the only truth for the time being. Sorry.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia
Quote:
De administrando imperio..From the Croats who came to Dalmatia, one part separated, and occupied Illyricum (Illurikon) and Panonian (Pannonian),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatia_(Roman_province)Quote:
It encompassed the northern part of present-day Albania, much of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Kosovo and Serbia, thus covering an area significantly larger than the current Croatian region of Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyri...oman_province)Quote:
The province comprised Illyria/Dalmatia and Pannonia. Illyria included the area along the east coast of the Adriatic Sea and its inland mountains. With the creation of this province it came to be called Dalmatia. It was in the south, while Pannonia was in the north. Illyria/Dalmatia stretched from the River Drin (in modern northern Albania) to Istria (Croatia) and the River Sava in the north. The area roughly corresponded to modern northern Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina and coastal Croatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PannoniaQuote:
Pannonia was an ancient province of the Roman Empire bounded north and east by the Danube, coterminous westward with Noricum and upper Italy, and southward with Dalmatia and upper Moesia. Pannonia was located over the territory of the present-day western Hungary, eastern Austria, northern Croatia, north-western Serbia, northern Slovenia, western Slovakia and northern Bosnia and Herzegovina.
What the island of Hvar and Korcula have with Illyricum, Roman Dalmatia and Panonia.?
Mongoloid haplogroup Q in the Hvar and Korčula came from White Croatia, is not it? :thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by hrvat22
Croatian E1b types comes from Albania, but Croats did not come from Albania they came from White Croatia. Do you understand now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
In every forum I've stumbled upon, there is always a group of Serbs who never miss to mention haplogroup Q on Hvar island suggesting that Croats are of Avaric, Turkic, Mongol of whatever exotic origin, but not Slavic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachus
Even a person with a lower then average IQ can realize how rediculous that claims are, but they just don't give up...
Is that something in the water or...?
In the twilight zone, everything is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonomyro