[QUOTE=Eldritch;405734]OK.And?Exactly wich part of the link support your assumption?Quote:
Originally Posted by gyms
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[QUOTE=Eldritch;405734]OK.And?Exactly wich part of the link support your assumption?Quote:
Originally Posted by gyms
[QUOTE=gyms;405736]Here it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldritch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Cullen
I2 came to Balkans with Ostrogoths.
Probably you mean I-M223 not I2a1b.Quote:
Originally Posted by al-kochol
I mean I2. Ostrogoths were one of many tribes that emerged out of Scythia. Do not be mislead by their name, given to them by Romans. Ostrogoths were not a Germanic tribe and had zero connection to "Swedish" Goths, i.e. Adolf Hitler's Nordics. Ostrogoths did not speak a Germanic language, which is the truth that Germans do not like to hear as it undermines their Drang Nach Osten policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldritch
And what language did they speak?Quote:
Originally Posted by al-kochol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_language
No.....Quote:
Originally Posted by al-kochol
Ostrogoths lived for some period of time in the region of today's Dalmatia but they continued their movement to the west. More precisely, they left Dalmatia and settled Italy.
Do we have I2a Dinaric in Italy? As far as I know, it is not true.
Ostrogoths spoke the language similar to their neighbours'. Germans were not there.
We have plenty of I2 in Sardinia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gosh
Completely different clade.Quote:
Originally Posted by al-kochol
I2a1 could come with Vandals (Sardinia) while I2a2 with Ostrogoths (Bosnia, Hercegovina, Croatia). Both were non-Germanic tribes, contrary to claims of German propaganda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by al-kochol
I2a M26 is not called "Dinaric" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldritch
So, it is then "Vandalic" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gosh
M26 lived there many thousands of years before any Vandals. The highest level of variance is in the southern France.Quote:
Originally Posted by al-kochol
Dinaric I2a got to its current position either directly from Anatolia through Greece to their highest concentration location of Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia, Croatia area. Or through the Caucasus and extreme southern Russia hugging the coast of the black sea until penetrating Ukraine until reaching Moldova from where they subsequently spread to their current highest % locations in the Balkans, in my opinion.
Here is my answer to the thread's original question - Slavic migrations represented on a map of Ukrainian origin. The tribes were initially somewhere in western Ukraine, moved south to western Moldavia (or Romanian Moldavia), then to Wallachia and from there to different parts of the Balkans. My opinion is that this scenario was the same for all Balkan I2a-Din. The time frame for Bulgarian and Macedonian Slavs is well described in historical sources, and for Slavs that are now are west from them I give interpretation that is not mine originally but it is also not broadly accepted. So, I think that the crucial event was when Avars destroyed Gepid kingdom in 568, when large number of Slavs moved west and southwest from Wallachia. For initial reading see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni .
Attachment 5859
I've had this opinion for some time but two recent researches additionally convinced me. First one from Romania which showed only 12% for I2a in Cluj, and second one more recent, from Bulgaria which gave approximate ratio between Din-N and Din-S in Bulgaria. It seems to be around 55% Din-N : 45% Din-S.
If this is not the proof that I2a-Din is recent in Southeast Europe, then I don't know what is: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0065441
That study is another proof of the statement you made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shetop
This proofs only one thing:I2a-Din was not in the Balkan during Roman times.
resurrecting an old renaissance theory with current modern new ideas.
I2a as reported by KenN is ukraine and moldovian which in the late bronze-age and early iron-age was the land of the Cimmeranians. The cimmeranians where pushed out of the pontic steppe by the scythians.
Recored history tells us that one branch of the cimmeranians went to Anatolia ( cappodocia)and the other branch settled initially in the Hungarian plains ( pannonia ).
A further split occurred as one branch went from pannonia to dalmatia and the other along the danube and sava rivers.
By 500BC they had been absorbed by eastward moving celts and disappeared from history in the balkans.
My take, I am unsure, I still ask if the I2a went into the balkans, then what marker was in northern Illyria since there is very very little of the E marker there
Many Roman emperors were born in areas that are high with I2a nowdays.
Any research on their haplotyope?
My thoughts on how I2a1 got to the balkans
It arrived by 700BC with the cimmeranians, they then merged with "illyrians" who where R1b and G2a in majority and swept south over time punching into E1B thracian lands. eventually to be stopped by the macedonians
Note: there where other haplotypes but I focused on the main
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1293/ew1t.png
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u gues are making i2a1b much more recent than it actullely is G2a came in Neloithic R1a and R1b came in brnze age hg I has been in europe for over 30,000 years. I2a1b has probably been in eastern europe for over 15,000 years it is re everything exceot paloithic it is from cavman times u cant find a Neolithic ion age culture that will match where i2a1b came from. trying to say iit is the cimmermans honestly makes n sense at all.
It's possible to claim both that the ancestors of I2a-Din were Paleolithic Europeans, and that its modern spread is primarily the result of much later migrations. Hence why I argue that I2a-Din descends from residents of Paleolithic Europe (I've argued for the Franco-Iberian Ice Age refuge, although most other authors argue for the Balkans); but at the same time I believe it spread later with the Slavs. I think that's the best guess you get when you traverse the I2 tree. I2a P37.2+ as a whole is very western in its diversity and seems to have an affinity for the Atlantic Fringe and the Rhine. I2a-Din itself is in fact a geographic outlier in the I2a family, and STR dating, along with a lack of ancient samples compared to I2a1a M26+, indicates that it only became the most common I2a subclade recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Haired