Is she putting forth the statement that Southern Europeans "Greeks and Romans" aren't white , thats a ridiculous statement..shes just feeding into the modern stereotype of a scale of whiteness..with Northern Europeans types at the top and Southern at the Bottom, im not looking forward to any of her work anymore lol
This obfuscation is detrimental to our discourse in the thread. She's obviously not saying that. You have received an infraction for disruptive/provocative behavior; stop t-rolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by xskramx2
I have long known that the ancient sculptures were painted. Now I will have to look at this exhibit and make a value judgement on whether the painting of the statues was artistically pleasing or not.
That's literally an article who promotes forced mixing in Europe ( by an American btw ) because some analogy between painted marble and weird white supremacist assumptions on marble ( It also continues to buttress the false construction of Western civilization. ) I guess she considers mediterraneans as Colored People. ( The Romans, in fact, did not define people as “white”; where, then, did this notion of race come from? ) How do they know what ancient Romans thought about themselves? Following the logic of the article, white supremacists only wear white clothes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
The conclusion is even more Revisionnistic, it claims because " some colored people maybe wants to learn ancient history, we need to rewrite it to fit them ".
As a passive reader of this thread, I hope it doesn't get derailed by that Moots quotation ----> maybe it should be made the basis for another thread, with attendant political controversy
Why exactly are you juging him after yourself created this environnement putting political affairs on things that could hurt other people? You surely now that this community is not only made of the same kind of peoples right? You literrally created this then it's like you didn't measure what the consequences will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
Wow, it is almost amusing how hysterical you are right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfalp
What did I create? I posted that she retweeted that article on April 4th.
If you can't handle the truth, perhaps you should stick your head in the sand.
What the hell are you rambling about? Are you really this upset that she retweeted that article?Quote:
Originally Posted by halfalp
It was racist morons like Tenny Frank that argued that the Roman empire declined due to race-mixing, which the article said was untrue; which she retweeted. It was the Nazis that exaggerated the validity of Tacitus, to meet their own political agenda.
What, because it is not what you want to hear, you feel indignant? Give me a break.
What truth mate? It's basically used datas for " progressive " politics, while the datas of ancient history dont equals modern immigration or cosmopolitan problems. And yes use the only power you have in life to dictate that you are right and Progressive while i'm wrong and Regressive, its probably the only power you have in life. Probably you should be more professional as a Moderator and not let your political views come into topic. You can go discuss this with your friends in a starbuck coffee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
It is not news that the Greeks and Roman statues were painted in these colors. So I don't know why you are so outraged.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfalp
That article has been posted on our Board before, in the context that neither the buildings nor the statues were of unadorned white marble.
I frankly don't think it has anything to do with art historians having been racist. The only reason we now know they were once painted is because we've got the technology to pick it up.
If she thinks it did then I'm disappointed because then I would think she's drunk the kool-aid they're selling on university campuses nowadays.
The same thing happened when the Sistine Chapel was restored. Art historians had written for hundreds of years about how appropriately gloomy the colors were for "The Last Judgment". Surprise, surprise, the colors were vibrant. :)
Augustus
http://i0.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-co...ima-porta.jpeg
Caligula:
https://cantorscience.files.wordpres...iccaligula.jpg
Time enough to judge her population genetics research as somehow biased, if it indeed is, when it comes out.
Which reminds me that maybe we should get back to talking about genetics.
Derailed in what sense? The author of the paper on Ancient Italian DNA retweeted a post, which is quite illuminating in regards to what we can expect from her findings on the Ancient Romans.Quote:
Originally Posted by dominique_nuit
It is safe to say they weren't Nordics, that's all. They looked like Southern Europeans.
My impression from this thread is that the Romans looked like Northern Italians genetically (or is it a 60/40 split?). As a Calabrese, my bias is of course for the Southern Italians :) -- I am merely joking of course -- let the science yield what it shall yieldQuote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
The article clearly has nothing to do with Notherners or Southerners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
" First, we must consider why we are such a homogenous field. According to the Society for Classical Studies, the leading association for Classics in the United States, in 2014, just 9% of all undergraduate Classics majors were minorities. This number decreases the higher into academia you go. Just 2% of tenured full-time Classics faculty were minorities, according to the study.
Do we make it easy for people of color who want to study the ancient world? Do they see themselves in the ancient landscape that we present to them? The dearth of people of color in modern media depicting the ancient world is a pivotal issue here. Movies and video games, in particular, perpetuate the notion that the classical world was white. This is an issue when 70% of my students tell me that games such as Ryse: Son of Rome (which uses white statues to decorate the city of Rome and white Roman soldiers as lead characters), as well as films like Gladiator (which has a man from New Zealand playing the Spaniard Maximus) and the 300 (which has xenophobic depictions of Persians) led them to take my courses.
If we want to see more diversity in Classics, we have to work harder as public historians to change the narrative — by talking to filmmakers, writing mainstream articles, annotating our academic writing and making it open access, and doing more outreach that emphasizes the vast palette of skin tones in the ancient Mediterranean. I’m not suggesting that we go, with a bucket in hand, and attempt to repaint every white marble statue across the country. However, I believe that tactics such as better museum signage, the presentation of 3D reconstructions alongside originals, and the use of computerized light projections can help produce a contextual framework for understanding classical sculpture as it truly was. It may have taken just one classical statue to influence the false construction of race, but it will take many of us to tear it down. We have the power to return color to the ancient world, but it has to start with us. "
I think what she tries to say is that there is not enough Black people in ancient europe mainstream depictions. Mediterranean, North African, Middle-Easterners are all " White Peoples ".
She mingle skin tone, origin, race as a whole. White and Black aren't even colors, this is all social science and affirmative action bias. We all know that ancient greeko-roman statues and temples were painted, who are seeing the world in black or white shades? We only see colors.
Well, I think it does have a lot to do with the repudiation of the Nordicist concept of Romans. Many looked like Mediterranean Southern Europeans, at least by the time of Julius Caesar. As in not pale, anglo-saxon/germans. Sorry you had a conniption fit over the last part. Granted, that is PC-nonsense. But It was not the part I'd thought people would zero-in on. Jeez, you shouldn't get so worked up, it is bad for your health.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfalp
We all have bias, and beliefs etc. But i trust science, method and rigor. But i feel Millenials ( wich i am ) are too rebellious and biased toward something. Contestataires as we say in French. And Political Correctness is something i'm strongly opposed, so when i see it come in into subjects with political or social repercussions such as Genomic. I become rebellious myself. Some people are not ready to understand the ultra infinite details of ancient dna and how the world was and will be bittersweet for ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
I mean this White Supremacist discussion is non-sense as well, not every ethno-nationalist is a Julius Savola. Some peoples are just conservative to the extremes without believing that ancient mediterranean civilizations were Pleiadians. But America is a place where Donald Trump is considered White Supremacist, indeed there is extreme extremes.
Well, what ever anyone believes, the point is to be civil. People can believe in what ever they want. What they can't do is act stridently, aggressive, and accusatory when they see something they do not agree with. Had you articulated your point in a non-hostile manner, it would have been perfectly fine. Incivility/rebelliousness, and ad hominems are completely inappropriate, and will be stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfalp
Yes i'm sorry, i first thought you put this article in provocative way, like " heil political correctness and affirmative action ". I dont really take the nordic mediterraneans white marble hypothesis seriously, so i thought the main point was the PC one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
No worries, and btw, I'm also opposed to political correctness.
The far-left and the far-right, are two sides of the same coin. Individuals not governed by fact, but by their own biases, and prejudices.
@halfalp imo You have exceeded the Anti-American Bias threshold long ago.
Speak for yourself about: “We all have bias, and beliefs etc”.
Yes. In fact he considers that we all have a bias. Once he said that I have a black bias. That I exalt blackness. I think he should reflect a little on his own biases, maybe together with his own students. He should do a catharsis and review your own concepts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salento
then, some Greeks were indeed dumb, they used different kinds of marble if it was to sculpt white tunics or tanned skin like with Aesculapius of Emporion, just to paint over the marble. But, yes, I must be a white supremacist by writting down this kind of info. Please by political correctness paint all Greek statues, provide a leaf to those naked.
Are you not talking only about SSA ancestry?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duarte
he also said this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Duarte
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post568835Quote:
and American idea that their world comprise the entire humanity
back to topic
You mean Europeans cannot juge America, but Americans can juge Europe because they originally came from there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Salento