^^^
Sacha made a prophetic movie, it is scary how close real Putin or real Lukashenko are to this parody:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w_ANNLYoxw
Printable View
^^^
Sacha made a prophetic movie, it is scary how close real Putin or real Lukashenko are to this parody:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w_ANNLYoxw
Interesting, such a "classical Christian educator", Doctor Steve Turley - https://classicalu.com/steve-turley/
Seems happy about a Muslim horde's attack on a Christian country - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3zGwDalZWM
US, Canada and Europe moving to take Selected Russian Banks (I assume the ones that are directly tied to Putin and the Oligarchs that back him) out of the Swift system. Just breaking.
Just looked him up because I had never heard of him. That fat fool is a disgrace to both Education and Christianity. How the hell is a person on the extreme right a Putin apologist? He somehow thinks Russia is a friend of the average American? It still wants to bury us. So, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomenable
How are extreme leftists turning on a dime to support a people refusing to live under Russian rule?
The whole world has gone mad.
^^^
Yes these right-wing vs. left-wing divisions are getting blurred.
=====
Some good news - apparently Ukrainian spies in Russia obtaned this information:
https://twitter.com/RihoTerras/statu...37193346220038
I see a lot of partisan attacks on Biden. Save them for the appropriate thread. Keep this thread for Ukraine and their heroic defense of their country. I cheer for you, Ukrainian heroes!
Now this is from New York post so TFWIW but it shows a tank swerve to drive over a private car and then backing over it again:
https://nypost.com/2022/02/25/russia...driver-inside/
Like I said, the Russians are winning the PR war:lol2:.
Would it be okay with you if we referred to him as "The Oval Office" instead or would that hurt your feelings as well? :lol2:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsnake49
You actually can't hurt my feelings, you're just a faceless person on the internet. I just want this thread clear of politics. I don't want this thread to turn into a Trump vs Biden thread. There is already another thread where you can complain about Biden.Quote:
Originally Posted by firetown
I am actually too disgusted with Biden to discuss him and that goes far beyond his politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsnake49
But I will say this much:
This didn't happen under Trump's watch.
Isn't a big part of this discussion what next step The Oval Office can take to end this?
Nothing Americans can do except to supply Ukranians with weapons and ammunition. Like we have been doing for the past 8 years. Now there is nothing stopping you or anybody else that think Americans should go and fight in Ukraine from volunteering to fight in Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by firetown
I have quite a few Iranian friends that think that the US should invade Iran to liberate them from the Mullahs. I give them the same advise. Nothing stopping them from going over there to fight the mullahs themselves.
An interesting take on psychological portrait of Putin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJLnZ_rNLOU
There was a article that I linked in my previous post that shared opinions from Russian analysts that noticed a change in his behavior. He has isolated himself from advisors and sees himself as a messianic figure for Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomenable
This is a surprisingly even-handed account of Russian strategic motivations for invading Ukraine ==
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
Reporters close to the scene are saying the Russians bombed an oil depot. My God, the poor Ukrainians can't catch a break. They had to live through the Chernobyl disaster and now it's oil fires polluting the environment.
Maybe Putin really has gone off the deep end; absolute power does corrupt absolutely. It also can drive some men mad. Look at Ceausescu, the leaders of North Korea, Stalin in his heyday, Hitler, Mussolini at the end too.
If ever there was a time for a palace coup in Russia, now is the time.
I am really sick and tired of these crazy populations enabling dictators based on national pride and then acting like victims. Russia hopefully will now be put in its place for good after spreading nothing but misery for many decades.
The SWIFT boycott is great, because in the end, money seems to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsnake49
Is there a man among the Russian circles of power that has both the foresight and the guts? The oligarchs are losing a lot of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
They will probably do that a long time from now after the population of Russia has to suffer greatly as a result of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angela
In other words:
When it's too late, they will kill him.
The upcoming damage will have to be severe to become a lesson.
Document:Nyet means Nyet
diplomatic communication by William J Burns dated 2008/02/01
February 2008 classified diplomatic cable from US ambassador to Russia William J Burns to the State Department about how Russia views NATO involvement in Ukraine
Subjects: Ukraine, NATO, Russia, The Great Game, Ukraine coup 2014
Example of: Diplomatic communication
Source: Wikileaks (Link)
Text highlighting by Wikispooks
Wikispooks Comment
This cable is solid evidence that the US was well aware of the potential consequences of western interference in Ukraine. The likelihood of civil war is clearly spelled out and gives the lie to any and all expressions of surprise and fauz-outrage by western leaders at the course of events since November 2013
Nyet means Nyet: Russia's NATO enlargement red lines
Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a
E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/30/2018
TAGS: PREL, NATO, UP, RS
SUBJECT: NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA'S NATO ENLARGEMENT
REDLINES
Classified By: Ambassador William J. Burns. Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).
1. (C) Summary. Following a muted first reaction to
Ukraine's intent to seek a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP)
at the Bucharest summit (ref A), Foreign Minister Lavrov and
other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition,
stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion
as a potential military threat. NATO enlargement,
particularly to Ukraine, remains "an emotional and neuralgic"
issue for Russia, but strategic policy considerations also
underlie strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and
Georgia. In Ukraine, these include fears that the issue
could potentially split the country in two, leading to
violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force
Russia to decide whether to intervene. Additionally, the GOR
and experts continue to claim that Ukrainian NATO membership
would have a major impact on Russia's defense industry,
Russian-Ukrainian family connections, and bilateral relations
generally. In Georgia, the GOR fears continued instability
and "provocative acts" in the separatist regions. End
summary.
MFA: NATO Enlargement "Potential Military Threat to Russia"
--------------------------------------------- --------------
2. (U) During his annual review of Russia's foreign policy
January 22-23 (ref B), Foreign Minister Lavrov stressed that
Russia had to view continued eastward expansion of NATO,
particularly to Ukraine and Georgia, as a potential military
threat. While Russia might believe statements from the West
that NATO was not directed against Russia, when one looked at
recent military activities in NATO countries (establishment
of U.S. forward operating locations, etc. they had to be
evaluated not by stated intentions but by potential. Lavrov
stressed that maintaining Russia's "sphere of influence" in
the neighborhood was anachronistic, and acknowledged that the
U.S. and Europe had "legitimate interests" in the region.
But, he argued, while countries were free to make their own
decisions about their security and which political-military
structures to join, they needed to keep in mind the impact on
their neighbors.
3. (U) Lavrov emphasized that Russia was convinced that
enlargement was not based on security reasons, but was a
legacy of the Cold War. He disputed arguments that NATO was
an appropriate mechanism for helping to strengthen democratic
governments. He said that Russia understood that NATO was in
search of a new mission, but there was a growing tendency for
new members to do and say whatever they wanted simply because
they were under the NATO umbrella (e.g. attempts of some new
member countries to "rewrite history and glorify fascists").
4. (U) During a press briefing January 22 in response to a
question about Ukraine's request for a MAP, the MFA said "a
radical new expansion of NATO may bring about a serious
political-military shift that will inevitably affect the
security interests of Russia." The spokesman went on to
stress that Russia was bound with Ukraine by bilateral
obligations set forth in the 1997 Treaty on Friendship,
Cooperation and Partnership in which both parties undertook
to "refrain from participation in or support of any actions
capable of prejudicing the security of the other Side." The
spokesman noted that Ukraine's "likely integration into NATO
would seriously complicate the many-sided Russian-Ukrainian
relations," and that Russia would "have to take appropriate
measures." The spokesman added that "one has the impression
that the present Ukrainian leadership regards rapprochement
with NATO largely as an alternative to good-neighborly ties
with the Russian Federation."
Russian Opposition Neuralgic and Concrete
-----------------------------------------
5. (C) Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch
a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about
the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does
Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine
Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears
unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would
seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us
that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions
in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the
ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a
major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In
that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to
intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
6. (C) Dmitriy Trenin, Deputy Director of the Carnegie
Moscow Center, expressed concern that Ukraine was, in the
long-term, the most potentially destabilizing factor in
U.S.-Russian relations, given the level of emotion and
neuralgia triggered by its quest for NATO membership. The
letter requesting MAP consideration had come as a "bad
surprise" to Russian officials, who calculated that Ukraine's
NATO aspirations were safely on the backburner. With its
public letter, the issue had been "sharpened." Because
membership remained divisive in Ukrainian domestic politics,
it created an opening for Russian intervention. Trenin
expressed concern that elements within the Russian
establishment would be encouraged to meddle, stimulating U.S.
overt encouragement of opposing political forces, and leaving
the U.S. and Russia in a classic confrontational posture.
The irony, Trenin professed, was that Ukraine's membership
would defang NATO, but neither the Russian public nor elite
opinion was ready for that argument. Ukraine's gradual shift
towards the West was one thing, its preemptive status as a de
jure U.S. military ally another. Trenin cautioned strongly
against letting an internal Ukrainian fight for power, where
MAP was merely a lever in domestic politics, further
complicate U.S.-Russian relations now.
7. (C) Another issue driving Russian opposition to Ukrainian
membership is the significant defense industry cooperation
the two countries share, including a number of plants where
Russian weapons are made. While efforts are underway to shut
down or move most of these plants to Russia, and to move the
Black Sea fleet from Sevastopol to Novorossiysk earlier than
the 2017 deadline, the GOR has made clear that Ukraine's
joining NATO would require Russia to make major (costly)
changes to its defense industrial cooperation.
8. (C) Similarly, the GOR and experts note that there would
also be a significant impact on Russian-Ukrainian economic
and labor relations, including the effect on thousands of
Ukrainians living and working in Russia and vice versa, due
to the necessity of imposing a new visa regime. This,
Aleksandr Konovalov, Director of the Institute for Strategic
Assessment, argued, would become a boiling cauldron of anger
and resentment among the local population.
9. (C) With respect to Georgia, most experts said that while
not as neuralgic to Russia as Ukraine, the GOR viewed the
situation there as too unstable to withstand the divisiveness
NATO membership could cause. Aleksey Arbatov, Deputy
Director of the Carnegie Moscow Center, argued that Georgia's
NATO aspirations were simply a way to solve its problems in
Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and warned that Russia would be
put in a difficult situation were that to ensue.
Russia's Response
-----------------
10. (C) The GOR has made it clear that it would have to
"seriously review" its entire relationship with Ukraine and
Georgia in the event of NATO inviting them to join. This
could include major impacts on energy, economic, and
political-military engagement, with possible repercussions
throughout the region and into Central and Western Europe.
Russia would also likely revisit its own relationship with
the Alliance and activities in the NATO-Russia Council, and
consider further actions in the arms control arena, including
the possibility of complete withdrawal from the CFE and INF
Treaties, and more direct threats against U.S. missile
defense plans.
11. (C) Isabelle Francois, Director of the NATO Information
Office in Moscow (protect), said she believed that Russia had
accepted that Ukraine and Georgia would eventually join NATO
and was engaged in long-term planning to reconfigure its
relations with both countries, and with the Alliance.
However, Russia was not yet ready to deal with the
consequences of further NATO enlargement to its south. She
added that while Russia liked the cooperation with NATO in
the NATO-Russia Council, Russia would feel it necessary to
insist on recasting the NATO-Russia relationship, if not
withdraw completely from the NRC, in the event of Ukraine and
Georgia joining NATO.
Comment
-------
12. (C) Russia's opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine
and Georgia is both emotional and based on perceived
strategic concerns about the impact on Russia's interests in
the region. It is also politically popular to paint the U.S.
and NATO as Russia's adversaries and to use NATO's outreach
to Ukraine and Georgia as a means of generating support from
Russian nationalists. While Russian opposition to the first
round of NATO enlargement in the mid-1990's was strong,
Russia now feels itself able to respond more forcefully to
what it perceives as actions contrary to its national
interests.
BURNS
For those of you who may be interested in breaking free of CIA-fed media hysterics, I suggest Consortium News, in particular the video series on the Ukraine crisis hosted by Joe Lauria. Mr Lauria is a longtime UN correspondent, writing for numerous papers over the years, and I daresay a credit to Italian-Americans everywhere.
https://consortiumnews.com/tag/joe-lauria/
https://youtu.be/YhdRZ3T3UaY
WTF does "and I daresay a credit to Italian-Americans everywhere even mean"? This is 2021, do we have to use this person is a credit to this group or that group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malaparte
Trump described the Russian invaders as liberators of the Ukrainian people in his first reaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by firetown
For whatever reason he said this, it's disgusting.
@Palermo -- that was my reply to this comment ==
a delayed response, but it's a dish best served coldQuote:
Originally Posted by Angela
I guess some oligarchs want Putin removed, but only to replace him by another dictator who can guarantee the status-quo in Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigsnake49
I think this is the most likely outcome if Ukrainiens resist Russia long enough to get Putin discredited in his own entourage.
the idea that Putin is a dictator supported by a small entourage is laughable. First, he is not a dictator. He was lasted elected by a 56% vote. Dictators are not so elected. He has great powers, but is in fact constrained by the massive bureaucracy that operates beneath him. Second, the decision to invade Ukraine is the result of some 20 years of close, deliberate planning throughout the Russian state. They have all their ducks in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by bicicleur 2
Are you sure that Trump said that?Quote:
Originally Posted by bicicleur 2
I doubt Trump said this. And let me clarify, I am not a Trump fanboy. My expectation is he would toe the conventional Republican line on Ukraine in any comments he might make. He has long since ceased to be the outsider candidate of 2016. But if I'm wrong, show me the quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by bicicleur 2
When I say the conventional Republican line, I mean that almost all Republican criticism of Biden's policy has been that it has *not* been tough enough on Russia. In other words, it's pseudo criticism, so-called "criticism" that is completely bought and paid for by military-industrial complex
Well I still disagree with the comment. Bad Taste in my opinion to go with the you are a credit to your "Religion", "Ethnicity", "Race", etc, etc. type talk. But to be fair, I too question whether you have any Italian ancestry. On the political front, I am still trying to figure out your political leanings. I gleam some right of center yes, but almost Rand Paul foreign policy regarding Russia who was with Bernie Sanders the only Senator to not support sanctions on Russia and Iran in 2017 (Strange alliance there), and he was 1 of only 2 Senators to not give a vote in support of NATO in 2018 and he went to Russia that same year to meet with Russian politicians to try and engage Russia. I know he was a staunch opponent of any move to give Ukraine NATO status.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malaparte
@Palermo -- Although I have not made anywhere near the number or quality of contributions that you make to this forum (in fact when you first appeared here, I complimented you on the high quality of your contributions), I've frequented this site for about 4, maybe 5 years now. That's quite a bit of time to invest pretending to be half Calabrian, albeit most of my "time" has been silent reading of threads.
I consider myself a patriot & a nationalist, which also means anti-globalist & anti-imperialist. My practical politics lean toward populism, but as a theoretical matter I recognize the importance of a benevolent & far-sighted elite. I voted for Obama in 2008, Trump in 2016, and abstained from voting in all other presidential elections. In terms of international politics, I am a great believer in balance-of-power realism. This is why I despair of our policy with regard to Russia, even if the nationalist in me is sympathetic to Ukrainian aspirations for self-determination and sovereignty.
@Palermo -- and I also believe in honor -- which is why I utterly horrified by how dishonorable our country has become -- the sheer cynicism of policy in Urkraine, serving the people of the Ukraine up for slaughter to achieve the objectives of our idiotic anti-Russia policy
It was meant as a joke, I guess you couldn't tell from my initial reply to your criticism. (That is, I'm a "disgrace" to Italians & Americans, so I said that Joe Laurie, a man who shares my views, is a "credit" -- but whatever)Quote:
Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani
Unlike Zelenskyy, I'm not much of a comedian.
Last post, as I don't want to actually take over the thread, merely trying to hold the line. But I just came across this excellent article from Ron Paul Institute (and no, Palermo, I ain't no libertarian, it's just that sometimes they get it right) --->
Washington's Crocodile Tears Over Ukraine's Destruction
written by daniel mcadams
friday february 25, 2022
As of this writing, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky is hunkered down in his bunker somewhere in Kiev, as the sound of the encroaching war gets closer and closer. A grim scene, to be sure.
All the US and EU kisses and roses leading up to this end have turned to dust and barbed wire, as a no-doubt deeply bitter Zelensky has nothing left but to cry out in anger.
The chips are down, as much of the US-equipped and backed Ukrainian military appears to have turned and ran as Russian forces approached. That is not to say that there has not been death and destruction on both sides. The battle for Kherson was brutal, with plenty of Russian losses. But nevertheless, as of this writing, it has fallen to Russian control.
Kiev in the main may well fall within the next 12-24 hours. Russian troops are already in the city. And Zelensky is in his bunker with fewer and fewer to take his calls. The cavalry he believed was promised him will not be coming to rescue him. Ukraine will be de-militarized and Ukraine will be neutral. Once held up as a great ally of Washington and Brussels, Zelensky is alone.
It brings to mind that great quote I often recycle from RPI academic advisor John Laughland, written as the early US-backed color revolutions rampaged through the former Soviet world in the early 2000s:It is better to be an enemy of the Americans than their friend. If you are their enemy, they might try to buy you; but if you are their friend they will definitely sell you.Zelensky has now learned the bitter truth, which previously favored foreign leaders also learned. Most of their lessons have been even harder than Zelensky's (at least to this point).
The bitter truth is that Washington's foreign policy establishment never actually considered Zelensky - or his predecessor Poroshenko - to be allies or partners of the United States. Overflowing with a toxic mix of ignorance, arrogance, and extreme cynicism, Washington's elites have always viewed Ukraine as a tool to "regime-change" a Russia that, after its post-Yeltsin recovery, would no longer take its direction from them.
The false gods of American exceptionalism are jealous ones indeed.
The American foreign policy establishment wanted a perpetual "Yanks to the Rescue" Russia, whereby US "consultants" and spooks would ensure that the most obsequious candidate would continue to win and rule. A string of Russian presidents who would, à la Shevardnadze and a whole string of other post-Soviet leaders, run the country like a family business: lots of biznis deals for family members...and maybe 10 percent for the "big guy."
Americans are victims (willing or not) of a mass media system as propagandistic as any that existed during Soviet Communism. The "party line" is established and it is unwaveringly followed whether the favored flavor is Fox or MSNBC. When it became obvious that Yeltsin's one-time understudy, Vladimir Putin, wasn't going to play that way, the party line came down that he must be demonized.
Not carefully studied and where appropriate opposed (on the basis of actual US interests), but rather Putin had to be demonized and, ultimately, "regime-changed."
Discourse in the US is so infantile that just writing this objective truth will no doubt land this author in the "Putin's puppet" purgatory. Not for the first time.
Most Americans will not have heard - and those who have likely do not care - that twice when the Ukrainian people elected a president who was in favor of maintaining good relations with its Russian neighbor the US intervened and overthrew the government. First time in the 2004-5 "Orange Revolution" and then the fateful 2014 "Maidan" revolt, which was explicitly and overtly supported by senior US government officials on the ground in Kiev including Victoria Nuland and the late neocon warmonger Sen. John McCain.
In the meantime tens of millions of dollars flow from the US taxpayer to favored think tanks, civic organizations, and media outlets via the National Endowment for Democracy (sic) and numerous US-funded related organizations. The goal is the same: manipulate Ukraine so that it remains on Washington's preferred path (toward conflict with Russia).
It is fashionable - particularly over the past two days - for even antiwar and "restraint"-promoting scribblers and jaw-boners to fall into tune with the warmongers' songbook of "Russian aggression" as the sole cause of recent bloodshed and destruction.
While anyone with an ounce of decency deeply regrets and opposes the use of such massive military force as we have seen recently in Ukraine, if there is one lesson to be learned from this entire miserable chapter (and by "chapter" I mean the entirety of post-Cold War US foreign policy) it is this: There are consequences that come with the belief that the key to peace and prosperity is to remake the world in your own image through the use of overt and covert, violent and non-violent means. That lesson should have been learned with the fall of Soviet communism itself, but the "victors" were too full of hubris to pause for a moment of humility.
Wishing reality was one thing and accepting that it is another are two very different things. The distinction must be made or the mass mental illness of "American exceptionalism" can never be cured. Otherwise the consequences next time the tectonic plates shift may be far closer to home.
Whether America and the EU like it or not, the era of ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality" is well and truly over. Its end is not to be mourned but to be celebrated. The only pro-America foreign policy is non-intervention in the affairs of others.
Ukrainian President Zelensky is unlikely to survive his turn being America's cat's paw to wrong-foot Russia. While he sits in his bunker contemplating his fate, he may well be visited by the ghosts of Saddam and Gaddafi and all those who preceded him in this position. God help him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malaparte
One quibble -- I think evidence will show that Russians have acted with considerable restraint, at least so far. Compare America in Iraq.
Ok. I've said my piece. Now to sleep.
I think the crux is in the first comment. You only miss it when it's gone. Just like we take tap water for granted.....until.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovialis
The US has never experienced occupation by any other power. In Europe this was by the NAZIs (Germany) and/or the Commies. In Western Europe, the generation up to about 1975, still shared the experiences of their parents about the NAZI occupation. In Central Eastern Europe, the history of the communist era is much longer. The generation born around 1990 is the first to no longer have active memories, and they are now having children.
And personally I find a comparison between the 'woke aggression of our government' and the aggression of Putin from of an entirely different order. Apples and oranges. And in my view is also a total disregard for what is at stake in the Ukraine. Not to offend you, not at all, but I don't agree with your view c.q. supposed of much US citizens...
In the West we have to realize what it is like to live under repression without self-determination, free press, free speech, etc. I have the idea that that message has at least got through in Europe.
By the way, for a good understanding of Putin's agenda, I can recommend everyone to read Aleksandr Dugin's works (just read his fourth political theory, but it seems that Last War of the World-Island: The Geopolitics of Contemporary Russia is even more spot on for what we are seeing. His works really laid on Putin's bedside table. Rhetoric, intentions and the political (ideological) agenda are crystal clear. be awake ;)
Are you a Russian bot?Quote:
Originally Posted by Malaparte
What a load of Putinist propaganda.:laughing::lol2:
Clear story and stance Malaparte. The more different (qualified) voices on this forum the better. I disagree with you about the 'ability' of the US to stay an outsider in this conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malaparte
First of all the entanglement is big: what happens in the Ukraine also effect domestic USA and vice versa. To give an example. The former president of the US has most probably put pressure on Zelenski to deliver some dirty story's about Biden jr who seems to be active in the Ukraine. This even has lead to a set up of impeachment. SO how interacted can it be. It's not like living on mars or venus.
Secondly since WW2 the West of Europe lives under a Pax Americana. That was liberal in politics and economics. It brought us peace, prosperity and a prolongation (and sometimes introduce like in Spain) of democracy. The NATO was the defender of this all. After the fall of the wall this all loosened up. Some former communist countries became part of it. And (now naive of course) it was thought that through trade etc even Russia would be part of the liberal world. The Ukrainians have self chosen to be a part of Europe, the West and are even longing for NATO.
I know the dilemma no one is waiting for ww3 a direct confrontation NATO and Russia.
Nevertheless the last thing we in Europe and especially in this crisis imo need is an USA who isolates itself from Europe or even more thinks Ukraine not of our interest or 'give it to' Putin....thanks for choosing for the West and goodbye.
What a strange world. For more than 2 years we had a pandemic that claimed between 5 and 6 million lives on the entire planet of 7 billion+/-. The in some areas name calling people mRNA anti- vaxxer and had protests to mandated lockdowns, mandated facemasks, mandated mRNA vaccines passports(not all countries or states like Sweden Texas Florida)Now we have so many people crossing U S southern border refugees and so many crossing Ukraine border refugees, but no word on vaccine status, QR passport, face mask, social distancing and or mutated covid PCR testing.
Supposedly 5000 Russian soldiers in the town of Belgorod (near the border of Ukraine) disobey orders and refuse to invade Ukraine:
https://www-onet-pl.translate.goog/i...en&_x_tr_hl=pl
The soldiers explain - "there is no such a clause [about invading Ukraine] in our contracts" / remember, they also get paid in rubble
^^^
Where are NKVD barrier troops when Putin needs them?!
Yes for the contractors especially this is not 'their' war. Most of Russians are very poor, so a contract in the army is what it is to get some money. This is the war of the 'upper oligarch' not from the commoner....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomenable
^^^
But also it can be mentioned, that this Belgorod area has a large ethnically Ukrainian population.
If you go on GEDmatch, the Ukrainian_Belgorod reference in Eurogenes calculators is from there.
People listen to Putin's propaganda about Russian minority in Ukraine and forget that large areas of Russia also have ethnic Ukrainians.