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Y-R1b came from steppes in a broad sense, in ancient times, but it's true it's old story. But don't took as granted that the cradle of later downstreams are from western Europe. Some of them reach...

It seems every mt haplo is Middle eastern!!! a well known path for migrations from South into Europe (not by force the only one). But it is no more a typical Middle East haplo, if it has ever been,...

@Angela
Sometimes I find Gaska a bit obstinate (a quality, too) and sometimes taking lacks of traces as proofs of non-existance (we know it isn't not more a proof of existance!) excluding the...

@Gaska
you wrote: first DF27
*EHU002 El Hundido (2.434 BC)-- HapY-R1b-P312-Mit-K1a4/a1-BB burial-Oval pit in the corridor of a dolmen-Male+45 years, 1,85 m, fetal position in right lateral...

I add it seems the Bronze in Iberia weakened after the collapse in Eastern Mediterranea; surely it marks the break down of dense enough commrcial an human relations beween both regions at those...

I don't remember where I read this. It's maybe a too much extrapolation by someone. But it seems that Eastern Mediterranean influences have been at play in Southern Iberia, (not in Basque country),...

Gracias.
Later I 'll come back about the Basque question and the concept of homogeneity in Iberian Chalco.

You don't read acutely my posts, sometimes.
concerning Olalde and R1b in Iberia
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/iberia-admixture-y-dna.jpg?x37279

I can read spanish, if I hardly speak it. OK for the link you propose, over all if they speak too of anDNA and not only of archeology.
THanks beforehand

I have no time just now, I take some rest.
But I agree with some of your statements, not all of them. So, read you and me again.

@Gaska
- Nobody will never believe that some obscure chalcolithic minorities of the 3000’s BC, based in spots between Portugal and S-W Spain colonised genetically the whole western Europe....

OK Gaska. Have you the auDNA making of these two men? (apparently BB's). And do you find 2 examples are a demonstration?
That said Ciempozuelos vessel as it seems were not older than 1900 BC. Are...

I answer to some arguments by Gaska. If I write "Moesan says", it is not because I want to take God's place, but for practical purposes.

Gaska said :
post #7
NO, NO , NO, the rest of...

Agree, I forget always to mention this fact. But in what proportions? My experience tells me that the most of foreign people come along power when economy is at its high point, go away when power...

"... containing some WHG element...." > being one of the WHG contribution.

I agree at least for that: some 'anatolian N' in the 'caucasus' and less ANE in it as a whole. The 'gedrosia' part contains more of this ANE, and is closer to the kind of CHG which was on the...

I have no proof just now, but I even think the EEF elements in both are not exactly the same.

Firstable, I don't think Toscana was genetically a compltely homogenous region; but taken at a global level, I doubt Sardinians and Toscans could form an almost single population.

we could risk that L269 and L23 were around Poland/Balt countries/Eastern Balkans/Western Russia & Ukraina about the 4000's BC, maybe a bit sooner for L269 and a bit later for L23? The L51 seem the...

Gaska, I don' think your Kourganists forged some fairy tales about Britan BB and The Netherlands BB, if they did it for other stories, but it seems to me that the most of them were very close, what...

You speak of heterogeneity among Gauls, but the period of the highest heterogeneity is the BB's one, not surprising; after, it tends to homogenise progressively; all the way I wonder if the elite's...

Interesting, Maciamo.
I notice in LN Switzerland, the Aesch25 (the only Y-R1b there and the late of the site) with 54,8% of 'north-euro', 19,8% 'gedrosia', a very reduced % of 'atlant-med', and 0%...

1- I never take their conclusions as face value, agree with you that sometimes, even in scientific papers, the conclusions are a bit simplistic. You see in my answers that I dont't search too much...

@italouruguayan
It evolved with time, evidently, but yes, we could say that, I think. No tight beam of isoglosses between them, spite some peculiarities as always. Mediterranea.

1- ?
2- not sure (even it doen't appear in the paper)
3- agree with you it not sufficient in itself
4- at some level of history they are right
5- no record of this (I d'ont find it in the paper...