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    Poll: I believe that more human lives can be improved...

    I believe that more human lives can be improved and saved by spending money on drugs that already exist for curable diseases in third world countries (or disaster relief etc.) than by spending it on...
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    I have a feeling that SVF and Tokis actually...

    I have a feeling that SVF and Tokis actually agree with each other, but for good reasons are unable to accept the way the other wishes to present the conclusion.

    (I may be way off here but this is...
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    Well that isn't quite the point I was trying to...

    Well that isn't quite the point I was trying to make. In the first place I would rather use the words better and worse than good or bad in this situation.

    Additionally when I was saying an...
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    For what its worth, I thought that your point was...

    For what its worth, I thought that your point was perfectly clear.

    I always found it interesting that the British 'converted' Ghandi from a mroe 'religious vegeratianism' to moral vegetarianism...
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    To say that vegetarianism isn't good for the...

    To say that vegetarianism isn't good for the environment because fossil fuels and pollution still occurs doesn't hold up. You might as well say that recycling is bad for the environment because...
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    Poll: Your diet's impact on the environment

    I've never created a poll before, this is exciting. :blush:

    Anyway, from the 'vegetarianism and the environment' thread I was wondering how much people here consider the environmental aspects of...
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    I agree with the sentiments expressed by many...

    I agree with the sentiments expressed by many people above that factory farming has a negative affect on the environment. I don't think anyone has tried to challenge this.

    I also agree with tokis...
  8. Poll: Actually, vegetarians don't have a problem with...

    Actually, vegetarians don't have a problem with B12 because its found in dairy products (milk yogurt etc), its vegans who have to watch out for it.
    B12 is found in other non-animal products apart...
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    I very much support you here. The gap between...

    I very much support you here. The gap between 'good and 'bad' here is most definately between free range meat and factory farmed meat not vegetarian and meat eater. I feel that AR and AW...
  10. Poll: I would say that I'm vegan, but thats not...

    I would say that I'm vegan, but thats not completely true becuase I'm not so fussy, I make exceptions especially when going on holiday or eating at certain restaurants. Of course, I would still stay...
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    Poll: OK, sorry. I thought you would going for more of...

    OK, sorry. I thought you would going for more of an end justifies the means thing than a morality is subjective thing. I haven't got time to read all of everyone's replies there just now, I should be...
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    Poll: I'm going to have to disagree with you here...

    I'm going to have to disagree with you here Reiku. I'm not going to argue here against animal testing, but against your idea of, how I see it as, the 'intent' justifiying the means.

    This is...
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    I don't think that PETA does any work in Africa,...

    I don't think that PETA does any work in Africa, but they are in developing nations, especially India. http://www.petaindia.com/

    Well, PETA's objective isn't to save animals from extinction, there...
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    Poll: I agree. I quit. Any reply I make now to the...

    I agree. I quit. Any reply I make now to the parts of Haciro's posts would just be repeating things that I have already said. Briefly though, fantasies are not a crime, rape is. People are only...
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    Poll: First of all I refer you to Tsuoiko's post. ...

    First of all I refer you to Tsuoiko's post.



    Note that I said paedohiple, not paedohile rapist or anything to imply that they may have comitted a crime. I even said 'so that they don't act on...
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    Poll: I agree. Thats why I feel that paedophiles should...

    I agree. Thats why I feel that paedophiles should be able to recieve support, so that they don't act on thier attraction to children, knowing that they wouldn't be hated or seen as sick for it....
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    Poll: Yay, this is actually what I wanted to discuss....

    Yay, this is actually what I wanted to discuss. And it seems someone can do it in a civilised manner too.

    I was including all sexual acts when I said rape. I belive this is the definition of rape....
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    Poll: I insist again that any ambiguity from post 50...

    I insist again that any ambiguity from post 50 was cleared up by post 53 when I said that children can't constent until 15-17 and so sex with children younger than that is rape. Reiku also made it...
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    Poll: However, at the very beginning I said that any...

    However, at the very beginning I said that any sex with children under 15-17 was rape. How did you manage to continue to misunderstand after that? I don't believe after clarifying myself with that...
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    Poll: Look, to be honest its not such a contraversial...

    Look, to be honest its not such a contraversial statement.
    Lets look at the first part.

    "A paedophile who does not rape children"
    A paedophile is someone who is attracted to children before...
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    Poll: I was fairly sure that you thought sex and rape...

    I was fairly sure that you thought sex and rape with a child was the same thing. However in your last post you claimed that they were different, and if you did consider them the same there would be...
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    Poll: How about: 'people that don't steal things, I...

    How about:
    'people that don't steal things, I have no problem with'
    Can you never agree with this?

    You also contradict the point you are making here by saying:



    How can you both take no...
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    Poll: You contradict yourself here with almost every...

    You contradict yourself here with almost every post.


    If having sex is raping someone, how can there be a huge difference? Do you agree that having sex with children is rape or not?!
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    Poll: and then reading things in it that aren't there....

    and then reading things in it that aren't there.

    For example you say this:

    I had clearly just said that children under 15-17 cannot consent to having sex. No matter which way you look at it....
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    Poll: Have we not established that having sex with a...

    Have we not established that having sex with a child and raping them is the same thing? just look at point number 5! I am not contradicting anything!
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