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In the "live" version (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/J-Z600/) it can be seen they both share many SNPs with the existing J-Z600* sample defined by J-Y260401 plus 50 others, which means they are...

Wrong thread. Delete.

As stated here, R3918, 993.5-1149 calCE, Sirmium Serbia, is under R1b-L51>L52>L151. He is not J2b-L283>>CTS6190.

I'm not sure why Yleaf assigned him to J-CTS6190, but in this case the assignment...

Yes, I confirm.

I think earlier J-L283 clades were probably somewhere in between of East Alps - North Balkans (take for example J-YP91). We also have that J-Z615* in EBA Maros Culture (Mokrin).

For the downstream...

By "jumping into conclusions" I meant when he claimed Z638 lineages couldn't have been in Albania before 1200 BCE. He also suggested Z638 had its starting point in Slovenia/North Italy which there is...

Yeah, Riverman is definitely not bad and is someone who I feel I can have an honest debate. He contributes a lot in these topics, especially for "Balkan" haplogroups like V13.

My main criticism...

Yes, of course, just as people like you claimed in the past J-Z631>Z1043 was clearly spread by the Celts by looking at the YFull tree. Wonder how that's looking after the latest aDNA result from...

It's the usual bizarre claims by user Wanderer. At the time when we had I4331 from MBA Dalmatia as the only J2b-L283 aDNA sample, he even suggested he was a kidnapped kid from Georgia/Kura-Araxes...

There is only one late antiquity sample from Montenegro: R3481, (~260 CE) Doclea, Montenegro which belongs to J2b-L283>>Z638>>Z631>Z1043.

In the Balkans, this subclade is mostly found among...

In the post you quoted, I simply refered to him as an early Messapian, as in early Iapygian, without specifying a tribal region. See:

"Some ancient sources treat Iapygians and Messapians as...

The paper states this is a new sample from Kotias Klde that's J2b. At this point, it's only a suspicion that he may be J2a, as the dating, site, mtDNA, is exactly the same as previously published KK1...

It was already explained to you here in two different posts. Simply, their Y phylogeny (as well as autosomal clustering) strongly suggests they are not native to the Tunisian coast, and their more...

Yeah, it's pretty much shaping like J2b-L283 subclades played an important role in the ethnogenesis of the Illyrians, just like some of us predicted some time ago and before we had all these aDNA...

Yes, you know very well. This:

For now all we have about the sample is: NEO281, Kotias Klde, Georgia, 7773 BC: J2b

As we know, there is already a Mesolithic sample from this exact cave that was J2a-Y12379 and apparently carried...

An important aDNA sample with regards to the thread.

From the new paper (in preprint) Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia we have:

NEO806, Grotta Delle Mura, Monopoli, Italy_BronzeAge:...

:lol2: :lol2:

Sorry, but you're showing us nothing to support your "genetic evidences". All you're doing is recycling your unsubstantiated personal beliefs. I don't have any more time to waste today :)

Care to show us the evidence of a "late" entry then?

What the evidence we have shows is that Albanian J2b-L283 subclades, such as J-Y20899 and J-Y82533, have TMRCAs among Albanian samples dating...

I thought we were discussing classical Illyrians of the Balkans, as in mid to late Iron Age. Bronze Age samples you bring up obviously don't fit that category. And I did not claim Illyrians being...

It hasn't shown up yet. But keep in mind that currently all we have is a few IA samples from one region of Northern Croatia which corresponds to Iapydes areas.

While E-V13 may not turn out to be...

By "kids" I meant random forum users who don't necessarily have the experience or the qualifications with regards to Albanian Y-DNA research and are jumping to premature conclusions. So I do...

No, there is no such genetic evidence to date. Care to elaborate your "genetic evidence"? Shouldn't expect much since you can't even properly spell E-V13. You obviously are rooting for your own haplo...

Yeah, and that's why I think people should stop using these nomenclatures ("J2b, J2b2, J2b2a", etc) as I can see it causing confusion, but rather specify the branch defining SNP (i.e. J2b-L283,...