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    From other site.....info for you.....i always...

    From other site.....info for you.....i always said the messapic came from east of the liburnians this states further north......it says the massapic marched down the coast,
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    https://j2-m172.info/2015/10/j2b2a1-l283-origins-b...

    https://j2-m172.info/2015/10/j2b2a1-l283-origins-by-diversity-and-subgroups-focus-jewish-lineages/

    It is a balkan marker but it is from cetina culture......via hungarian plains
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    @salento Messapic expanded with Bell Beakers...

    @salento
    Messapic expanded with Bell Beakers migrating through the Italian Peninsula, or rather southward through the eastern Adriatic coast. Based on the connections of the Cetina culture with Bell...
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    Yes but before this his line has recently been...

    Yes but before this his line has recently been stated as western black sea area, although same line as the 2 neolithic T samples, it is a earlier split from this bulgarian branch......btw, the 2 x T...
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    We all know this ...we also know that people...

    We all know this ...we also know that people moved from area to area and in all cases they left some behind to be absorbed by others who entered these lands

    Btw the venetics are not indigenous to...
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    Agree with above What i was taught at school was...

    Agree with above
    What i was taught at school was that the fertile cresent was only between the euphrates and tigres rivers set up by hammurabi and his babylonians, even after the fall of the...
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    i agree they are not italic

    i agree they are not italic
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    and so what does this mean in reference 70...

    and so what does this mean in reference

    70 plus percent of Illyrians come from two tribes Dalmatians and pannonians
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    At the start of the first Punic wars the romans...

    At the start of the first Punic wars the romans are a combination of latins, Etruscans and Umbrians ( Sabines, sabellics, Samnites etc )
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    Ardea was was ruled by the Rutuli tribe.....check...

    Ardea was was ruled by the Rutuli tribe.....check them out
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    What about the vandali confederation (vandals) of...

    What about the vandali confederation (vandals) of germanic tribes of modern north poland
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    Liburnians and histri and iapodes all sit under...

    Liburnians and histri and iapodes all sit under the term illyrian and so do other tribes in noricum, how else do you get halstatt culture in noricum, a mix of celts and illyrians
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    In roman texts there are no illyrians, it is a...

    In roman texts there are no illyrians, it is a geophical term, like british...in the roman census of 5bc , which i supplied before, they had tribes under the term illyricum of which the dalmatian...
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    That T sample came with the R1b from ancient LBK...

    That T sample came with the R1b from ancient LBK areas of central europe...i will check if it also matches the neolithic T samples from malek bulgaria
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    It means that z19945 is the father of pages00113...

    It means that z19945 is the father of pages00113 and not its equal
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    Interesting that in the ftdna T project,...

    Interesting that in the ftdna T project, ..Gamma-1.1-B pages00113 has z19945 as positive
    Most on this list seem eastern europeans


    Btw, i am negative for pages00113
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    Yes correct...but the landing of these 3 tribes ,...

    Yes correct...but the landing of these 3 tribes , led by dauni arrived south of foggia, they then started marching south kicking out the greeks in the heel of italy
    Btw, the dauni are the only ones...
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    You should contact Gareth from the T...

    You should contact Gareth from the T project.....he will help you
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    If these trojans did arrive at rome in the 1100bc...

    If these trojans did arrive at rome in the 1100bc , they would be the minority....there was people already living there....it was not like some red-indian type of moving from one camp to another camp
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    Messapics are the smallest of the tribes...

    Messapics are the smallest of the tribes
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messapians
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    L283 is known as dalmatian or cetina culture...

    L283 is known as dalmatian or cetina culture
    Besides, as per the map you supplied , from the red line northward was no sea , but land in ancient times
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    Thank you , So you are also positive for z19945...

    Thank you ,
    So you are also positive for z19945

    I am negative for cts1848.....but a person from walloon belgium, surname Bernot is the same as yourself
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    R850....T1a1-L208.........mtdna T2c1f ...

    R850....T1a1-L208.........mtdna T2c1f

    R1543...T1a1-Z709.........H1e

    R120....T1a2-L446.....I1c
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    Well said And also etruscans ruled over romans...

    Well said
    And also etruscans ruled over romans for nearly 200 years....there was a lot of mixing
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    Is that near the jura caves swabia ?....there is...

    Is that near the jura caves swabia ?....there is ols sample of T-z19945 found there.....i have posted it before
    Romans called lake constance...lacus venetus

    I cannot open your link
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