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I too have noticed this perennial crusade of the Spaniards and Portuguese on forums to prove that they are every bit as Celtic and Germanic as other Europeans. They always seem to take things very personally and get easily riled up with any remark that so much as hints at their supposed Moorish...

The Spanish Armada thing just sounds like an urban legend. The darker phenotype is relatively common in the British Isles as a whole, not only Ireland (i.e. Orlando Bloom, Posh Spice, Sean Connery etc)

Well maybe you're right... keeping in mind that we are all just speculating here. R1b is thought to have arisen east of the Caspian, so it's definitely possible that the original R1b carriers were at least partly Mongoloid (although fully Mongoloid would be unlikely, I'll agree on that). My wild...

The physical appearance of R1b bearers has no doubt changed pretty drastically over the millenia, from Mongoloid to Mongoloid-Caucasoid hybrid types to a Caucasoid/Middle Eastern type and finally to a Middle Eastern/Indigenous "Northern" European type.... a process that happened to a greater or...

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-DF27/default.aspx?section=yresults SRY2627 isn't all that big, within DF27. From a quick visual estimate, I would say that maybe 1/5 of DF27+ people are SRY2627+. So, conversely, a reasonable estimate of DF27's incidence (including outside of Iberia and...

http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?p=10269 According to the numbers posted by the user "Jackson" on that page, P312* (xL21 xU152) in England ranges from 6.3% (Southwest) to 21.2% (Southeast). If we assume that a good deal of that P312* is actually DF27 (50-70% of it?), then DF27 in ENgland...

So the Celts nearly wipe out the natives, and then the Anglo-Saxons kill off half the Celts, then the Vikings make both of them pay for all their genocidal sins... and in a final twist the Normans (who were probably mostly of Celto-Gallic stock by 1066) finally recapture Britain, never to give...

Maciamo's explanation on Basques and R1b, while it doesn't strike me as the most convincing idea I've ever heard, is probably as good as any, as others have pointed out. And that because no matter what, some sort of fluke chain of events must have necessarily happened in the Basque land, so any...

Two alternative scenarios which seem plausible to me, concerning the linguistic aspects of R1b/IE: A - An R1b population, speaking a non-IE language somewhere far East during the Late Neolithic, arrives in Western Europe through Iberia, after travelling along Northern Africa and finally...

Jesus, that's a lot of SNP levels. At what point does R1b1b2b1b1b1b2b1b3b1b2b1b3b1b3b1b become, say, haplogroup "U"? ISOGG might start considering giving some use to the letters U-Z (in Y-DNA).

LOL this thread has gotten funny. Hey, maybe all of the cyclic historical outbursts of violence and plundering by Northern Europeans against Western Europe have been triggered by a subconscious ancestral desire for revenge, from the I1 people? :laughing:

That's an interesting point, Mikewww. Maybe the R1b's brought some illness(es) with them, which they were already immune to, but to which the natives (mainly hg I folks) weren't? Historically, most plagues/flus/epidemic diseases in general seem to appear in Asia first, and then spread from...

Mikewww, what you're saying makes sense. I just have a few reservations: 1) Archaeology and genetics point towards DF27 being most closely associated with the Bell Beakers, at least more so than the other P312 subclades; 2) While I agree that it might be somewhat unlikely for men holding...

Based on Maciamo's recent map of R1b migrations, P312 is likely to have appeared somewhere north of the Alps. The bulk of its descendants then moved South (U152), West/Southwest (DF27) and West/Northwest (L21), but it's not so hard to conceive that a few (including P312*) went North instead...

Fire Haired, I've taken the Geno 2.0 test as well and my result was also R-P310. From what I've gathered, Geno 2.0 doesn't test for P312, but it tests for L21, U152, U106 and various SNP's under these. They also don't test for DF27 (although they also test for a few SNP's under DF27). Nobody...

Yeah, I agree with you, there is just too much P312. I do think, however, that the vast majority of the L21 can probably be traced to British Isles slaves (unlike the other subclades of P312, which seem more "naturally" widespread").

That's surprising, Scandinavian R1b being 55% P312 and less than 40% U106. I imagine those numbers were probably inverse until the viking age. With all that L21 in Scandinavia, can it be parallelly assumed that a good chunk of the R1a and N1c (particularly in Sweden) might have come from...

I don't know if I would go as far as saying Iberian and English R1b are "totally different", considering the commonness of the Atlantic Modal Haplotype and the fact that most subclades in Iberia and England are P312 and below. While there is a prevalence of DF27 in SW Europe and L21 in the NW...

Just looking at Central/Western Europe, we have/had: - Basque/Aquitanian (in ancient times, it was spoken in a much larger area than today, from the Central Pyrenees to all around the Bay of Biscay); - Iberian language(s), from the Eastern Pyrenees to the Southern Coast of Spain; - Etruscan...

Sure, most evidence shows that R1b-M269/P297 was co-responsible for the spread of IE languages. But when it comes to R1a-M417, you just don't have any room for doubt. In any country/region that has as much as 35-40% R1a, you can make a very safe bet that an IE language is spoken (except for...