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That makes a good deal of sense to me, overall. I'm just not sold on the idea of Western European R1b's origins being "purely" IE. There is definitely an indigenous link to it, which can't be figured out yet (and maybe never will).

You sure like your gifs. So how about your ideas on what took place? Assuming it's no mystery to you :good_job:

I agree that R-P312 is intimately associated with Celtic languages, and that it's plausible that the Basques' ancestors originally spoke an Italo-Celtic language before arriving in the Pyrenees, where they mysteriously dropped their language, in spite of their conquerors' status. On the other...

I am also amazed by the amount of U106 in Portugal. Looks like "Portugal" had much denser Late-antiquity Germanic settlement than "Spain". And then there was also the 1147 Siege of Lisbon, after which several thousands of English, Flemish and German crusaders established themselves in the city.

Wouldn't Castile, Valencia and especially Cantabria have at least 5% Germanic Y-DNA? Based on the data found here on Eupedia, Cantabria has 8.5% R1a, 2% I2a2, 1% I1 and surely some of its 55% R1b is U106; Castile has 3% R1a, 0.5% I1, 0.5% I2a2, plus the odd R-U106, and the Valencia region has 3%...

Fire Haired's impressive knowledge (especially considering he's in his first year of high school, as he mentioned in another thread) can make his text formating excusable. :good_job:

3 - normal, average It's easily noticeable that populations high in R1b and/or R1a tend to be aggressive, expansionist, always thirsty for new conquests abroad etc. Examples: Rome in Antiquity, France/England/Germany crusaders in the Middle Ages, basically all Western European nations in...

Well this little irony should make things awkward for racist/xenophobic British people... ethnic people in the UK will forever be able to retort "your future king is part paki! [sic]"

Aha, I see. Kind of like what (probably) happened with R-DF27 then, except for starting and arriving in opposite ends.

I am U5b1 as well, presumably originating in Portugal. How would the typically Scandinavian U5b1 have ended up in Iberia? Visigothic women? Or would it be the result of a much older, pre-historical presence?

Here are some linguistic maps of Pre-Roman Iberia:

I agree with you. I think it's highly probable that R1b appeared somewhere just South or East of the Black Sea. And yes, frequencies change with time. What I find strange, however, is the occurrence of a founder effect with peaks of 90% R1b (Ireland, Wales, Basque Country) in Western Europe. Why...

Hasn't this hypothesis been largely abandoned by now? Considering the oldest R1b clades are found almost exclusively in West Asia, and the youngest, in Western Europe.

Fair enough. But then again, aren't "Basque" R1b and "Celtic" R1b too similar in terms of SNP's (they're all P312, with about 20% of Basque R1b being L21) and too close chronologically, for these groups to develop two language families that are as related as Arabic and Cherokee? I do think the...

Yep... each of the main theories regarding the origins of R1b in Europe has a nearly insurmountable flaw to it. Paleolithic continuity - The further west you go in Eurasia, the younger the R1b subclades, and vice-versa. Bronze Age IE invasion - Why would so many P312 men, from Southern France...

Interesting. I must say though that I think the theory of the Neolithic near-eastern expansion of R1b into Europe also seems a bit unconvincing, given that R1b just doesn't have that strong of a presence in most of the near east (a giant J2 founder effect from the near east, for instance, would...

Everyone knows there is a fairly logical correlation between R1b-M269 and Indo-European languages in Western Europe. However, looking at linguistic maps of pre-Roman Iberia, and comparing them to current haplogroup distribution maps, one can't help noticing that the entire eastern Iberia and the...

Pretty much, yes.

Maybe a part of that U152 can be attributed to pieds-noirs as well?

Maciamo, what are your thoughts on R1b possibly having entered Europe in the Neolithic with these other farmers, and only becoming indo-europeanized after contact with Corded Ware R1a people? Some people in other forums seem pretty convinced about that idea.