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Here is in interesting link to a supplement file in a scientific study. http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2013/11/24/000802.DC3/000802-3.pdf. The two R1b-Z194 in this tree are NA20754 and NA20755, both from Toscany, Italy. Two other R1b-Z192 are NA19661 and NA19685 of a Mexican...

This clade is a major Downstream clade of R1b-U152. Where and when did it iriginate?

I`ve found out that Francalacci in his famous Sardinian study tested for Z193 and Z194, but none of his 75 R1b-Z192 are positive for this markers.

3 were found in Geno 2.0 (2x British; 1x Italian), 2 were found in 1000 genomes Project (2x Italian), 5 are in the Group B1 in the FTDNA R1b-U152 Project (4x British; 1 German). The other (1x Italian, 3x German, 1x Palestinian) were found by me, because of the characteristic DYS-values.

There are now 15 surnames in R1b-Z194. Six of them originated in the British Isles. 4 are from Germany. 4 others have their ancestors in Italy. The last is especially interesting, because he is the only R1b-U152 (L2-) in whole Arabia (Palastinian territory). I suppose the clade R1b-Z194...

Hi Brianco, I`m a member of the same clade as Crosier, because of some off-modal STR values. There is an Italian R1b-Z194 ("Placa", Palermo Sicily) in Geno 2.0. Does you or anybody else know which SNP or STR values were tested by Francalacci in his famous Sardinian study?

Does nobody in this forum know, if Francalacci, who found 75 R1b-Z192 in his study, tested any subclades of R1b-Z192, especially R1b-Z194 or his "brother" R1b-Z193?

R1b-Z194 is an interesting clade downstream of R1b-Z192 in the R1b-U152 haplogroup. So far three persons have tested positive in the Geno 2.0 project. (two from British Isles and one Italian). Moreover two persons in the 1000 Genome Project are positive for this marker (both Toscany, Italy)...

Hi Britanicus, I agree with you in your general view. But you are wrong in believing, that you and this Sardinian guy share common heritage. His haplogroup is I and yours is R, so it is a parallel mutation. Hope you will find a second member of your clade. I`m interested in testing PF4363...

I suppose you mean Z56. But this SNP is connected with DYS492=14, so we are propably Z56-. I think the origin of U152 is not clear today, we need more data.

My Italian mach is "Ponte" from Genua, Italy

I agree with you Giordano. I`m a member of U152* subclade L2-, Z36-, DYS492=12 (probably Z56-). Because of some off-modal DYS values I have found 10 families (surnames) in our group. 5 are British with origins in the Border-Reiver region near Hadrian wall, three are situated in Germany(2 in...

I`ve seen Colangelo has ordered the new Geno 2.0. Perhaps there are some new SNP`s for U152* guys like me.

Hi Brianco, I hope you will have a match and you will loose your star.

I`m very close to Crozier and not so close to Kipling, but because Crozier is L159.2-, I suppose I am probably L159.2- too.

A member of my cluster Crosier Kit 180858 is negative for SNP 159.2. Because of this, it is not useful for me to test this SNP. But for other U152* guys it might be helpful.

I`m U152* too (Z36- DYS492=12). Because I have some off-modal values in common with Colangelo, I wonder if I shall order this SNP. My home South-West Germany is the probable origin of U152 in Hallstatt period.

Thank you Moesan for your response. So the vast mayority of swabian words are really germanic. Thank you. But the celts must have left an impact here. Do you think that the names of mountains and rivers and lakes are a better chace to find our celtic heritage?

Very good explanaton Christiaan. The most Swaban words are indeed probably germanic. I give you some more examples. Perhaps you can give me an explanation. grom - gift, someone takes it home after a journey gretig - angry because of too few sleep goscha - mouth ranza - body boscha - hair guller...

I think ötzi is G2a the prominent haplogroup of Neolithic farmers. If it would be R1b, it would be very interesting because we could date the specific subclade more precisely.