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  1. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Indeed, the Sarno (2017) paper identifies traces of Post-Neolithic Caucasus and Near-Eastern related ancestries. We already know of the Caucasus-related ancestry among the Minoans and Mycenaeans and the absence of Near-Eastern ancestry among them, but a Near-Eastern trace among the modern...
  2. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Here is Mathieson et al.'s (2018) context for that statement, "In two directly dated individuals from southeastern Europe, one (ANI163) from the Varna I cemetery dated to 4711-4550 BCE and one (I2181) from nearby Smyadovo dated to 4550-4450 BCE, we find far earlier evidence of steppe-related...
  3. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    The "casts doubt on this genetic–linguistic association" pertains more to the broader IE linguistic family and whether we should be associating "steppe" ancestry with IE linguistic expansion in general, than to the Greek branch itself. It refers to the Anatolian IE branch (different from Greek)...
  4. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Blevins, if you paid some closer attention to what i am writing you wouldn't have to wait for additional research and evidence. You cited Lazaridis et al.'s (2017) quote that called for additional sampling of ancient Anatolian individuals needed. Yet, in the post at the top of this page i shared...
  5. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    The thing is that i am also using evidence, and it's what i have been citing all along. Furthermore, no, i am not certain of the northern route, but it is a matter of weighing information. The reason i am confident in it isn't only due to genetics that seem to favor it, but linguistics and...
  6. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    First of all, my opinion is meant to be read not heard. Second, the prior comment you wrote didn't even make sense for the most part and i explained to you why. The irony is that you prompted for the use of reason. If you can't find reason in what i wrote then this was a waste of my time.
  7. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Sorry, but this is just ignorant and has been answered multiple times already. Mycenaean Greek is just a branch of Greek, not proto-Greek nor pre-proto-Greek (which pertains to the hypothetical north/south IE migrational route). Also, when you say that Mycenaeans came from Anatolia it's like...
  8. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    You remember correct Angela. It's in the abstract of all places, "However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter-gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia, introduced via a proximal source related to either the...
  9. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Jovialis, Reich's mention assumes a PIE homeland in Transcaucasia. Doesn't really have to do with later stages of IE, which even in that Transcaucasian PIE model, you would need a migration north in the Pontic-Caspian steppe, where branches other than the Anatolian (which seems to be the first...
  10. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    No it's not ridiculous, quite the opposite. Because 15th century censuses don't take into account the subsequent migrations into places such as southern Italy and a number of Greek islands, some decades later. But i am not negating the medieval Albanian contribution to continental Greeks, i am...
  11. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    I agree with Jovialis. The medieval Albanian settlement of Greece is quite overestimated by some, especially when certain information is taken out of context. Censuses from the 1800s which focused on southern Greece (that had by far the largest concentration of Arvanites) narrows it down to some...
  12. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Linguistics are just as important in forming conclusions, as genetics and archaeology are, and in fact they all compliment each other. That's why interdisciplinary analysis is crucial in these kind of questions. As for the rest, thanks for quoting the paper Blevins, i am aware of all that as...
  13. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    Don't forget the quote that relates, "Other proposed migrations, such as settlement by Egyptian or Phoenician colonists are not discernible in our data, as there is no measurable Levantine or African influence in the Minoans and Myceneans, thus rejecting the hypothesis that the cultures of the...
  14. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    You are the one who brought up your hypothesis of the Anatolian route for Greek, which in this context pertains to pre-proto-Greek (IE component of Greek), not even proto-Greek. I am only repeating myself because you keep repeating yourself against the genetic evidence, and besides that you...
  15. Demetrios

    Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

    There is nothing to suggest that pre-proto-Greek (the IE component of the Greek language) came via Anatolia, as has been extensively discussed in this very same thread months ago. Then again Blevins continues to support this dogmatically thinking that if pre-proto-Greeks came via Anatolia, then...
  16. Demetrios

    How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

    Oh ok, i now see how you meant it. By the way, now that i looked at it quickly i found 22 G2a samples from the Vinča, Starčevo, and Cucuteni-Trypillian cultures between 8000-4800 ybp, not 16 as you have listed, which will surely affect the aforementioned statistics. As for VINJ4, you can see...
  17. Demetrios

    How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

    That's not totally accurate either. Regarding the Balkans during ~8000-3000 BCE, i am aware of the following I2a: I2529 - Bulgaria - 5726-5575 BCE - I2a1b (I-M436) I2165 - Bulgaria - 3020-2895 BCE - I2a1b1a2a2 (I-Y5606) Bul4 - Bulgaria - 3012-2900 BCE - I2a1b1a2a2 (I-Y5606) Bul6 - Bulgaria -...
  18. Demetrios

    How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

    Let me also remind you of two rumored Mycenaean samples supposedly belonging to R1b. They were first mentioned in Anthrogenica by Ryukendo and Eurogenes (Generalissimo). But again, these are just rumors for the time being, not facts. Yeah, it would be nice to have a more elaborate study on the...
  19. Demetrios

    How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

    No, we don't have samples from Archaic/Classical/Hellenistic Athens, Sparta, or Macedon yet. We do have samples though from the Phocaean Greek colony of Empúries (Spain), published in "The genomic history of the Iberian Peninsula over the past 8000 years (2019)", which included an Aegean cluster...
  20. Demetrios

    How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?

    They certainly carried G2a, being the predominant haplogroup of the Neolithic farmers who are also responsible for much of their autosomal profile. In terms of samples, we have the Neolithic sample from Kleitos in Kozani being G2a and dated to 4230-3995 BCE. Also, the Minoan from Odigitria in...
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