Moots: Ancient Rome Paper

Majority J2a-M410 in various subclades, and some J2b-L283 and some J2b-M205.

However, nevertheless, according to this study Imperial Romans had over 50 % of J haplogroups. Of course various subclades and various origins but still..



J2a300-700 CEPF5008>L581*Late Antiquity
J2a400-600 CEL26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>Y5014>M319Late Antiquity
J2a5345-5221 BCEJ-S11842* Y15913- Z6271-M67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842*Neolithic
J2a1a100-300 CER68 J-Y13534* Y23159- Y14696-L25>F3133>Z7706>Y13534Imperial Rome
J2a1a55-211 CER-Z30677M67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677Imperial Rome
J2a1a27 BCE-300 CEJ-Z6264* Z28602-M67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394>Z6264*Imperial Rome
J2a1a1600-1700 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394Renaissance
J2a1a0-200 CEJ-PH672 Y150774-M67>Z1847>Z500>M92>Z508>Z504>PF7412>Z515>PH672*Imperial Rome
J2a1a1-400 CEJ-Z6271L26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>M67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842>Z6271Imperial Rome
J2a1a0-200 CEJ-Y47649L26>PF5087>PF5160>PF5197>PF5172>Y154816>Y47649*Imperial Rome
J2a1a300-500 CEJ-Z40772 FGC58752-L25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>CTS3601>PF5456>Y24651>Z40772*Late Antiquity
J2a1a1480-1490 CEL25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>Z2177>PH185>FGC32147Renaissance
J2a1a1600-1700 CEJ-Z435L26>PF5087>PF5160>L24>Y22662>L25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435*Renaissance
J2b1771-947 CEJ-PF7321 Y45447- YP51- FT45018- Y134194- Y22037-M205>PF7321*Medieval
J2b1135-244 CEJ-Y134194M205>PF7321>Y134194Imperial Rome
J2b2a700-600 BCEJ-CTS6190M241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190Etruscan_IA
J2b2a0-200 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Z8421>Z631Imperial Rome
J2b2a1280-1430 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Y27522>Y23094*Medieval

And your point is?

src_1334607036089.jpg


Something wrong with yDna J2, whether J2b or J2a?

If one could make accurate predictions from maps of modern frequencies it looks to me like either an arrival through Greece and the area around Albania or directly from places like Crete, Cyprus, or Asia Minor. They might have gone directly to Rome or after some hundreds of years in Southern Italy.

My question was whether you have any pertinent information of where those subclades each are most frequent and when they might have arrived, i.e. the dating. For example, how about Crete? The Peloponnesus? Coastal Anatolia?

That's what we're trying to do, yes? Figure out how all of the migrations which make up Europeans occurred?
 
And your point is? Something wrong with yDna J2, whether J2b or J2a?

Absolutely not, as you see i am J haplogroup myself, when i say Imperial Romans had over 50 % of J haplogroup, its a fact that i am proud on : )


If one could make accurate predictions from maps of modern frequencies it looks to me like either an arrival through Greece and the area around Albania or directly from places like Crete, Cyprus, or Asia Minor.

My question was whether you have any pertinent information of where those subclades each are most frequent and when they might have arrived, i.e. the dating.

That's what we're trying to do, yes? Figure out how all of the migrations which make up Europeans occurred?


Each of these can be checked in Yfull where modern samples are found today and TMRCA and upward genetic tree can be seen.
Most of these have already Yfull link included. As it can be seen J2a-M410 is in various branches and its a mess to try to make a sense out of all of them even tho its not that hard if anyone has free time.
While J2b-M205 and J2b-L283 have lower TMRCA therefore we can look at them as branches that expanded from same place. J2b-L283 most likely picked up by Bronze Age Indo-Europeans somewhere in North Caucasus and spread throughout Europe while J2-M205 had Bronze Age Fertile Crescent expansion therefore likely arrived thru Phoenicians or later Roman Empire.
 
Absolutely not, as you see i am J haplogroup myself, when i say Imperial Romans had over 50 % of J haplogroup, its a fact that i am proud on : )





Each of these can be checked in Yfull where modern samples are found today and TMRCA and upward genetic tree can be seen.
Most of these have already Yfull link included. As it can be seen J2a-M410 is in various branches and its a mess to try to make a sense out of all of them even tho its not that hard if anyone has free time.
While J2b-M205 and J2b-L283 have lower TMRCA therefore we can look at them as one branch from same origin. J2b-L283 most likely picked up by Indo-Europeans and spread throughout Europe while J2-M205 had Bronze Age Fertile Crescent expansion therefore likely arrived thru Phoenicians or later Roman Empire.

My husband is G2a2. I wish he'd get it further refined, but he's not interested enough. He just wants the highlights!:)
 
My husband is G2a2. I wish he'd get it further refined, but he's not interested enough. He just wants the highlights!:)


Here is situation within G2a:


G2a2a5607-5485 BCEG-Z42565PF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z42565Neolithic
G2a2a1070-1150 CEG-Z6228PF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228Medieval
G2a2a1280-1430 CEG-Z6228PF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228Medieval
G2a2b3500-900 BCEG-PF3378PF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>PF3378Chalcolithic/BA
G2a2b2950-2880 BCEpre-G-F807PF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>F2572>F2214>pre-F807Chalcolithic
G2a2b0-200 CEG-L14* Z45043- FGC5185-M406>M3317>FGC5089>FGC5081>L14*Imperial Rome
G2a2b232-333 CEG-S9591M406>M3317>PF3293>PF3316>Z6029>S9591Imperial Rome
G2a2b100-300 CEG-P303P303*Imperial Rome
G2a2b300-700 CEG-L140 PF3346- (Z31254- Z31256- Z3125:cool:P303>L140*Late Antiquity
G2a2b136-326 CEG-Z6434* (Z3571- FGC295- Z6993- Z6994- Z6996-)CTS342>Z724>Z1903>CTS7045>Z3408>Z3428>YP4752>Z6434Imperial Rome
G2a2b1-400 CEpre-G-Z6764U1>L13>Z2022>Z6759>pre-Z6764Imperial Rome
G2a2b400-600 CEG-S2808 S23438- Y31000- S18765-L497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808Late Antiquity
G2a2b1280-1430 CEG-S2808 S23438- Y31000- S18765-L497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808Medieval
G2a2b1480-1490 CEG-S18765L497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808>S23438>S18765Renaissance
 
Here is situation within G2a:


G2a2a5607-5485 BCEG-Z42565PF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z42565Neolithic
G2a2a1070-1150 CEG-Z6228PF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228Medieval
G2a2a1280-1430 CEG-Z6228PF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228Medieval
G2a2b3500-900 BCEG-PF3378PF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>PF3378Chalcolithic/BA
G2a2b2950-2880 BCEpre-G-F807PF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>F2572>F2214>pre-F807Chalcolithic
G2a2b0-200 CEG-L14* Z45043- FGC5185-M406>M3317>FGC5089>FGC5081>L14*Imperial Rome
G2a2b232-333 CEG-S9591M406>M3317>PF3293>PF3316>Z6029>S9591Imperial Rome
G2a2b100-300 CEG-P303P303*Imperial Rome
G2a2b300-700 CEG-L140 PF3346- (Z31254- Z31256- Z3125:cool:P303>L140*Late Antiquity
G2a2b136-326 CEG-Z6434* (Z3571- FGC295- Z6993- Z6994- Z6996-)CTS342>Z724>Z1903>CTS7045>Z3408>Z3428>YP4752>Z6434Imperial Rome
G2a2b1-400 CEpre-G-Z6764U1>L13>Z2022>Z6759>pre-Z6764Imperial Rome
G2a2b400-600 CEG-S2808 S23438- Y31000- S18765-L497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808Late Antiquity
G2a2b1280-1430 CEG-S2808 S23438- Y31000- S18765-L497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808Medieval
G2a2b1480-1490 CEG-S18765L497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808>S23438>S18765Renaissance

Thanks, Dema.

Now, if I could just get him to test it with FTDNA or something. :)

He likes the idea it could be an original Neolithic lineage in Italy, I think. Actually, the first thing he asked was if anybody famous carried it. I told him Stalin was G2a, but not G2a2. He wouldn't have been happy to share Stalin's clade, although I'm sure there are a lot of wonderful men who carry that particular lineage.

As you can tell, I'm the only one in my family who has any real interest in population genetics.

It took forever to find out my Dad carried U-152.

I'm afraid I don't have very much interest in my own U2e mtDna. It's so old and so spread all over the world that it's hard to identify with it. Plus, it accounts for so little of my total genetic make-up.

Well, I care about the health implications bound up with mtDna, but not from an "identification" standpoint.
 
Thanks, Dema.

Now, if I could just get him to test it with FTDNA or something. :)

He likes the idea it could be an original Neolithic lineage in Italy, I think. Actually, the first thing he asked was if anybody famous carried it. I told him Stalin was G2a, but not G2a2. He wouldn't have been happy to share Stalin's clade, although I'm sure there are a lot of wonderful men who carry that particular lineage.

As you can tell, I'm the only one in my family who has any real interest in population genetics.

It took forever to find out my Dad carried U-152.

I'm afraid I don't have very much interest in my own U2e mtDna. It's so old and so spread all over the world that it's hard to identify with it. Plus, it accounts for so little of my total genetic make-up.

Well, I care about the health implications bound up with mtDna, but not from an "identification" standpoint.

Hehe i guess he is right handed towards politics if he didnt like Stalin : )
Who knows he probably has some of these G2a samples close. Best would be BigY-700.

Except BigY test + Yfull upload, best gift woman can give a man is baby boy that will carry on Y-DNA and tradition : )

I am joking a bit, daughters are excellent also : )
 
Elementary question. Isn't Steppe ancestry itself roughly 50% CHG/Iran Neo, with the balance Ancient North Eurasian and EHG? And isn't ANE found in Native Americans?

My impression is that the only thing that distinguishes Southern Italians and Greeks from other Europeans is that they--or to speak in the first-person, "we"--carry more CHG and only a small fraction of EHG and ANE. And perhaps "we" also have some small percentage of North African admixture. But for the most part, all Europeans, including Southern Italians, are comprised of Anatolian Neolithic, CHG/Iranian Neolithic, and WHG.

Do I at least have the fundamentals correct?

And in reference to Angela's comments elsewhere in this thread, it would be nice if 23andme and other testing companies used the same nomenclature as academic scientists to describe various genetic components. So rather than say that Calabrians have lots of Middle Eastern ancestry (which is very vague and confusing), they should use terms like Anatolian Neolithic and CHG/Iranian Neolithic.

It's all a load of bunk to make people who have "no life' feel secure in their dismal state. Genetically the component makeup of Europeans varies (as you note) between minute proportions of WHG, CHG, EHG, ENF, which if you think about it is really pretty incidental. Are we going to argue which component is more "valuable" to European culture/civilization or openly acknowledge differences as significant to the creation of the Euro ethos. I wonder if this whole northern=fairer notion may also be debunked since there is evidence that Anatolian farmers (7000 bce) may have introduced the "light" skinned allele into Europe.

correct, now we only need to take the focus away from europe. you see, the hate southern europe gets from some nordicist racists from all over europe, is based on the believe in possible near eastern, "non-european" ancestry in the south. so the aversion is actually against near east and everything that could be tied to modern near eastern populations. only discussing european genetics and thier differences here feels as if the nazis ring at the door to deport "untermenschen" but you explain there are none in your house then close the door and silently let the nazis continue their thing.

all westeurasian populations have only very small differences. an exception are maybe some north africans with significiant sub saharan african. but even there, those who are not having significant admixture are extremely similar. and that is concidering, that all human populations are already very similar.
it's ridiculous how many people still can't understand this eventhough they have all the data to know it better. there is so much denial.
 
Hehe i guess he is right handed towards politics if he didnt like Stalin : )
Who knows he probably has some of these G2a samples close. Best would be BigY-700.

Except BigY test + Yfull upload, best gift woman can give a man is baby boy that will carry on Y-DNA and tradition : )

I am joking a bit, daughters are excellent also : )

He's conservative by American standards, which means very conservative indeed, but it's the fact Stalin was a homicidal butcher who killed millions of people that created the aversion. I've rarely met anyone as compassionate toward other people. Certain behaviors are beyond his comprehension.

Cultures differ. I can't imagine my husband ever caring about passing on his "y line". He wasn't one of those men who was dying to have children at all, but if he had a preference, it was for girls. My father was the same way. There's a saying: a son's a son till he takes a wife, a daughter's a daughter till the end of her life. I think that's very often true. He does care about passing on his family's culture to a degree, but not as much as I do. When push comes to shove he's an American. I'm hanging out somewhere in the Atlantic. Anyway, there's a wide variety of yDna in Italy as you yourself have pointed out.
 
So here is all samples so far, also thanks to whoever put them together in excel file.


SAMPLE IDY-HAPLOGROUPDATETERMINAL Y-SNPPERIOD/CULTURELOCATIONmtDNA
R11I2a210100-9816 BCEM436MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b1
R7I2a2a8821-8642 BCEpre-M223MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b1
R15I2a2a7284-7065 BCEpre-M223MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b3
R26I2a2a3500-900 BCEM223>CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>Y7240Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuH1j9
R27I2a2a3500-900 BCEM223>CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>Y7240Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuH1e1a
R32I2a2a300-700 CEM223>CTS616Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoH2a1
R104I2a1a400-600 CEL158>Y3992>Z2049>L160>PF4088Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiU5b3a1a
R63I2a1b970-1010 CEM423>Y3104>L161.1>S2639>L1498>Y3749MedievalVilla MagnaK1a2a
R110I1400-600 CEDF29>Z63>BY151>FGC81364>S2078>S2077>Y2245>Y7234Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiH1e
R1286I11411-1447 CEP109>FGC16695>Y3662>S14887>Y4115*MedievalCancelleriaH1g1
R9G2a2a5607-5485 BCEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z42565NeolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a4a1
R64G2a2a1070-1150 CEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228MedievalVilla MagnaHV0a
R52G2a2a1280-1430 CEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228MedievalVilla MagnaT1a1
R29G2a2b3500-900 BCEPF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>PF3378Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuJ2b1a
R4G2a2b2950-2880 BCEPF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>F2572>F2214>pre-F807ChalcolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a+195
R131G2a2b0-200 CEM406>M3317>FGC5089>FGC5081>L14*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaT1a12
R47G2a2b232-333 CEM406>M3317>PF3293>PF3316>Z6029>S9591Imperial RomeCentocelleJ1c1c
R70G2a2b100-300 CEP303*Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaT1a
R30G2a2b300-700 CEP303>L140*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoL4a2
R132G2a2b136-326 CECTS342>Z724>Z1903>CTS7045>Z3408>Z3428>YP4752>Z6434Imperial RomeMarcellino & PietroR0a2j
R1545G2a2b1-400 CEU1>L13>Z2022>Z6759>pre-Z6764Imperial RomeMazzano RomanoH8c
R108G2a2b400-600 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT2b+150
R55G2a2b1280-1430 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808MedievalVilla MagnaJ2b1a
R1224G2a2b1480-1490 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808>S23438>S18765RenaissanceCancelleriaT2b4f
R6R1b5242-5177 BCEV2219>V88>Y7777>G72+C51:G68+F50+C51:G68+M52f*NeolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a1
R1016R1b900-700 BCEZ2103Latin_IACastel di DecimaH1aj1a
R123R1b77-213 CEZ2103Imperial RomeCasale del dolceT2a1b
R1021R1b700-600 BCEL51>Z2118*Latin_IABoville ErnicaU4a1a
R111R1b0-200 CEL51>Z2118>Z2116*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaH
R61R1b1280-1430 CEL51>Z2118MedievalVilla MagnaHV
R33R1b300-700 CEU152>L2>DF110Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoK1a
R1220R1b1480-1490 CEDF27>Y30754>Y85515RenaissanceCancelleriaT2f1a1
R851R1b800-500 BCEU152>L2>DF90>F14641>F29470Latin_IAArdeaH2a
R437R1b400-200 BCEU152>L2>ZZ48>ZZ56>F10530>PR5365Latin_IA (Prenestini Tribe)Palestrina SelciataH10
R435R1b600-200 BCEU152>Z56>Z43>Z145>CTS6389>FT152016Latin_IA (Prenestini Tribe)Palestrina ColombellaH11a
R36R1b400-600 CEU152>Z56>Z43>Z145>CTS6389>FT152016Late AntiquityCelioT1a1
R1287R1b1411-1447 CEU152MedievalCancelleriaT2b
R31R1b332-419 CEP312>DF19>Z302>Z8193*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoK1c1
R58R1b700-1500 CEU106>S263>S264>S497>Y24836>Y28640*MedievalVilla MagnaH1c3
R1548R1a27 BCE-300 CEZ93>Z94>Z2124>Z2122>F1345>F2935>F1019Imperial RomeMonterotondoH2a
R66R2a100-300 CEY3399>Y3370Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaT2
R17J5324-5223 BCEPF5008>L581>Z37823>PF5000>pre-Y29673NeolithicRipabianca di MonteradoU8b1b
R81J0-200 CEM67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842>Y15913Imperial RomeViale Rossini, Necropoli SalariaK1b1c
R105J1400-600 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Z1884>FGC12834>PF4876>L829Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT1a
R1547J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Z1884>Y2919>Y6094Imperial RomeMonterotondoK1a7
R1549J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Y15152>ZS4336 (xZS4312,Y154827)Imperial RomeMonterotondoU5b2b3
R128J1a0-400 CEZ1828>Z1842>Y4423 (xZS3042,BY100,CTS1460a,Y83506)Imperial RomeCasale del dolceHV+16311
R130J1a300-500 CEP58>Y4067>L817>pre-L818Late AntiquityMarcellino & PietroH107
R835J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Y3081Imperial RomeCivitanova MarcheH2a5
R34J2a300-700 CEPF5008>L581*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoH+195+146
R117J2a400-600 CEL26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>Y5014>M319Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoT2b
R19J2a5345-5221 BCEM67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842*NeolithicRipabianca di MonteradoU5b3a1
R68J2a1a100-300 CEL25>F3133>Z7706>Y13534Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaU7a4a1a
R1551J2a1a55-211 CEM67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677Imperial RomeMonterotondoH
R1550J2a1a27 BCE-300 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394>Z6264*Imperial RomeMonterotondoT2c1c
R969J2a1a1600-1700 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394RenaissanceTivoli Palazzo CiantiU5b
R115J2a1a0-200 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>M92>Z508>Z504>PF7412>Z515>PH672*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaU4
R44J2a1a1-400 CEL26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>M67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842>Z6271Imperial RomeIsola SacraT2
R76J2a1a0-200 CEL26>PF5087>PF5160>PF5197>PF5172>Y154816>Y47649*Imperial RomeViale Rossini, Necropoli SalariaT2c1a
R136J2a1a300-500 CEL25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>CTS3601>PF5456>Y24651>Z40772*Late AntiquityMarcellino & PietroT2d2
R1221J2a1a1480-1490 CEL25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>Z2177>PH185>FGC32147RenaissanceCancelleriaH1e2
R970J2a1a1600-1700 CEL26>PF5087>PF5160>L24>Y22662>L25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435*RenaissanceTivoli Palazzo CiantiJ1b3
R1283J2b1771-947 CEM205>PF7321*MedievalCancelleriaH12
R50J2b1135-244 CEM205>PF7321>Y134194Imperial RomeCentocelleH5
R474J2b2a700-600 BCEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190Etruscan_IACivitavecchiaH
R116J2b2a0-200 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Z8421>Z631Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaU3a2
R54J2b2a1280-1430 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Y27522>Y23094*MedievalVilla MagnaH4a1
R113E1b1b0-200 CEV12>Y2863>CTS693>Y6730>FGC7703>CTS1239>CTS6667>Y2862>BY8432>pre-BY8536Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaH26a1
R59E1b1b820-990 CEV12>Y2863>CTS693>Y6730>FGC7703>CTS1239>CTS6667>Y21919>Y21918*MedievalVilla MagnaN1b1a
R107E1b1b400-600 CEV13>Z1057>CTS1273>BY3880>Z5018>S2979>Z16659>L241>Z38770*Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT2h
R1219E1b1b1417-1463 CEV13>Z1057>CTS1273RenaissanceCancelleriaH11a
R53E1b1b1280-1430 CEL19>PF2431>Z21068>PF2438>Y10541>Y10561>pre-FGC19010MedievalVilla MagnaU2e1c1
R850T1a1a800-500 BCEL162>L208*Latin_IAArdeaT2c1f
R1543T1a1a1-400 CEL162>L208>CTS11451>Y4119>CTS2214>Z709>Y9109>Y18004*Imperial RomeMazzano RomanoH1e
R120T1a2b400-600 CEL131>Y6033>pre-FGC23008Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoI1c
R1014H3500-2500 BCEP96*Chalcolithic (Rinaldone Gaudo)Monte San BiagioN1a1a1a3
R118H2400-600 CEP96>Y21618>Y19962>Y20838>Y20839>Y21598Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoH1e1a
R1285C1a2974-1035 CEV20>V86>V182>V222MedievalCancelleriaT2c1a
 
He's conservative by American standards, which means very conservative indeed, but it's the fact Stalin was a homicidal butcher who killed millions of people that created the aversion. I've rarely met anyone as compassionate toward other people. Certain behaviors are beyond his comprehension.

Cultures differ. I can't imagine my husband ever caring about passing on his "y line". He wasn't one of those men who was dying to have children at all, but if he had a preference, it was for girls. My father was the same way. There's a saying: a son's a son till he takes a wife, a daughter's a daughter till the end of her life. I think that's very often true. He does care about passing on his family's culture to a degree, but not as much as I do. When push comes to shove he's an American. I'm hanging out somewhere in the Atlantic. Anyway, there's a wide variety of yDna in Italy as you yourself have pointed out.
I'm too mixed to even have a cultural identity, i see myself as a living breathing thing who contributes to this world with my tech saviness who will eventually die and be eaten by worms, just like my ancestors did
 
Do anybody has clues about Steppe ancestry in Etruscans and Italics? I've read here and there that some samples choose Yamnaya ancestry before BB ancestry, while others look like BB's. Does that mean that in overall, BB ancestry is the sole and unique " Steppe " ancestry in Western Europe? In the mean that, if we accept the hypothesis that IE languages came from the Steppe, BB's were probably the sole and unique speakers of it until it collapsed in different dialects?

This would mean that, anybody IE or Not at some point could have had BB ancestry, but that all IE speakers had it too. Making it very difficult to say who spoked what ( a part from already known hypothesis ) even with Steppe ancestry. So we could say at some point, virtually all Western Europe had BB ancestry, but in this whole, not all of them were IE speakers.
 
I'm too mixed to even have a cultural identity, i see myself as a living breathing thing who contributes to this world with my tech saviness who will eventually die and be eaten by worms, just like my ancestors did

You're an American; more specifically a mix of the second wave of immigrants that came over in the 20 century. I think that would be a viable cultural identity. You were born in the American Century (post-WWII 20th century) a time when the United States reached the zenith of power and prestige; truly becoming a new Roman empire.

But also, there's quite a lot of Irish/Italians; almost every Italian-American I know is either marrying an Irish person, or is partly Irish. They can pretty much be an ethnicity on to themselves, imo

Jewish people I know tend to stay with each other. But they will also consort and sometimes marry other groups primarily from the second wave of working-class immigrants.
 
So here is all samples so far, also thanks to whoever put them together in excel file.


SAMPLE IDY-HAPLOGROUPDATETERMINAL Y-SNPPERIOD/CULTURELOCATIONmtDNA
R11I2a210100-9816 BCEM436MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b1
R7I2a2a8821-8642 BCEpre-M223MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b1
R15I2a2a7284-7065 BCEpre-M223MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b3
R26I2a2a3500-900 BCEM223>CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>Y7240Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuH1j9
R27I2a2a3500-900 BCEM223>CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>Y7240Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuH1e1a
R32I2a2a300-700 CEM223>CTS616Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoH2a1
R104I2a1a400-600 CEL158>Y3992>Z2049>L160>PF4088Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiU5b3a1a
R63I2a1b970-1010 CEM423>Y3104>L161.1>S2639>L1498>Y3749MedievalVilla MagnaK1a2a
R110I1400-600 CEDF29>Z63>BY151>FGC81364>S2078>S2077>Y2245>Y7234Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiH1e
R1286I11411-1447 CEP109>FGC16695>Y3662>S14887>Y4115*MedievalCancelleriaH1g1
R9G2a2a5607-5485 BCEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z42565NeolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a4a1
R64G2a2a1070-1150 CEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228MedievalVilla MagnaHV0a
R52G2a2a1280-1430 CEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228MedievalVilla MagnaT1a1
R29G2a2b3500-900 BCEPF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>PF3378Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuJ2b1a
R4G2a2b2950-2880 BCEPF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>F2572>F2214>pre-F807ChalcolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a+195
R131G2a2b0-200 CEM406>M3317>FGC5089>FGC5081>L14*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaT1a12
R47G2a2b232-333 CEM406>M3317>PF3293>PF3316>Z6029>S9591Imperial RomeCentocelleJ1c1c
R70G2a2b100-300 CEP303*Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaT1a
R30G2a2b300-700 CEP303>L140*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoL4a2
R132G2a2b136-326 CECTS342>Z724>Z1903>CTS7045>Z3408>Z3428>YP4752>Z6434Imperial RomeMarcellino & PietroR0a2j
R1545G2a2b1-400 CEU1>L13>Z2022>Z6759>pre-Z6764Imperial RomeMazzano RomanoH8c
R108G2a2b400-600 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT2b+150
R55G2a2b1280-1430 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808MedievalVilla MagnaJ2b1a
R1224G2a2b1480-1490 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808>S23438>S18765RenaissanceCancelleriaT2b4f
R6R1b5242-5177 BCEV2219>V88>Y7777>G72+C51:G68+F50+C51:G68+M52f*NeolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a1
R1016R1b900-700 BCEZ2103Latin_IACastel di DecimaH1aj1a
R123R1b77-213 CEZ2103Imperial RomeCasale del dolceT2a1b
R1021R1b700-600 BCEL51>Z2118*Latin_IABoville ErnicaU4a1a
R111R1b0-200 CEL51>Z2118>Z2116*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaH
R61R1b1280-1430 CEL51>Z2118MedievalVilla MagnaHV
R33R1b300-700 CEU152>L2>DF110Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoK1a
R1220R1b1480-1490 CEDF27>Y30754>Y85515RenaissanceCancelleriaT2f1a1
R851R1b800-500 BCEU152>L2>DF90>F14641>F29470Latin_IAArdeaH2a
R437R1b400-200 BCEU152>L2>ZZ48>ZZ56>F10530>PR5365Latin_IA (Prenestini Tribe)Palestrina SelciataH10
R435R1b600-200 BCEU152>Z56>Z43>Z145>CTS6389>FT152016Latin_IA (Prenestini Tribe)Palestrina ColombellaH11a
R36R1b400-600 CEU152>Z56>Z43>Z145>CTS6389>FT152016Late AntiquityCelioT1a1
R1287R1b1411-1447 CEU152MedievalCancelleriaT2b
R31R1b332-419 CEP312>DF19>Z302>Z8193*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoK1c1
R58R1b700-1500 CEU106>S263>S264>S497>Y24836>Y28640*MedievalVilla MagnaH1c3
R1548R1a27 BCE-300 CEZ93>Z94>Z2124>Z2122>F1345>F2935>F1019Imperial RomeMonterotondoH2a
R66R2a100-300 CEY3399>Y3370Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaT2
R17J5324-5223 BCEPF5008>L581>Z37823>PF5000>pre-Y29673NeolithicRipabianca di MonteradoU8b1b
R81J0-200 CEM67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842>Y15913Imperial RomeViale Rossini, Necropoli SalariaK1b1c
R105J1400-600 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Z1884>FGC12834>PF4876>L829Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT1a
R1547J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Z1884>Y2919>Y6094Imperial RomeMonterotondoK1a7
R1549J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Y15152>ZS4336 (xZS4312,Y154827)Imperial RomeMonterotondoU5b2b3
R128J1a0-400 CEZ1828>Z1842>Y4423 (xZS3042,BY100,CTS1460a,Y83506)Imperial RomeCasale del dolceHV+16311
R130J1a300-500 CEP58>Y4067>L817>pre-L818Late AntiquityMarcellino & PietroH107
R835J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Y3081Imperial RomeCivitanova MarcheH2a5
R34J2a300-700 CEPF5008>L581*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoH+195+146
R117J2a400-600 CEL26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>Y5014>M319Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoT2b
R19J2a5345-5221 BCEM67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842*NeolithicRipabianca di MonteradoU5b3a1
R68J2a1a100-300 CEL25>F3133>Z7706>Y13534Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaU7a4a1a
R1551J2a1a55-211 CEM67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677Imperial RomeMonterotondoH
R1550J2a1a27 BCE-300 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394>Z6264*Imperial RomeMonterotondoT2c1c
R969J2a1a1600-1700 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394RenaissanceTivoli Palazzo CiantiU5b
R115J2a1a0-200 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>M92>Z508>Z504>PF7412>Z515>PH672*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaU4
R44J2a1a1-400 CEL26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>M67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842>Z6271Imperial RomeIsola SacraT2
R76J2a1a0-200 CEL26>PF5087>PF5160>PF5197>PF5172>Y154816>Y47649*Imperial RomeViale Rossini, Necropoli SalariaT2c1a
R136J2a1a300-500 CEL25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>CTS3601>PF5456>Y24651>Z40772*Late AntiquityMarcellino & PietroT2d2
R1221J2a1a1480-1490 CEL25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>Z2177>PH185>FGC32147RenaissanceCancelleriaH1e2
R970J2a1a1600-1700 CEL26>PF5087>PF5160>L24>Y22662>L25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435*RenaissanceTivoli Palazzo CiantiJ1b3
R1283J2b1771-947 CEM205>PF7321*MedievalCancelleriaH12
R50J2b1135-244 CEM205>PF7321>Y134194Imperial RomeCentocelleH5
R474J2b2a700-600 BCEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190Etruscan_IACivitavecchiaH
R116J2b2a0-200 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Z8421>Z631Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaU3a2
R54J2b2a1280-1430 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Y27522>Y23094*MedievalVilla MagnaH4a1
R113E1b1b0-200 CEV12>Y2863>CTS693>Y6730>FGC7703>CTS1239>CTS6667>Y2862>BY8432>pre-BY8536Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaH26a1
R59E1b1b820-990 CEV12>Y2863>CTS693>Y6730>FGC7703>CTS1239>CTS6667>Y21919>Y21918*MedievalVilla MagnaN1b1a
R107E1b1b400-600 CEV13>Z1057>CTS1273>BY3880>Z5018>S2979>Z16659>L241>Z38770*Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT2h
R1219E1b1b1417-1463 CEV13>Z1057>CTS1273RenaissanceCancelleriaH11a
R53E1b1b1280-1430 CEL19>PF2431>Z21068>PF2438>Y10541>Y10561>pre-FGC19010MedievalVilla MagnaU2e1c1
R850T1a1a800-500 BCEL162>L208*Latin_IAArdeaT2c1f
R1543T1a1a1-400 CEL162>L208>CTS11451>Y4119>CTS2214>Z709>Y9109>Y18004*Imperial RomeMazzano RomanoH1e
R120T1a2b400-600 CEL131>Y6033>pre-FGC23008Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoI1c
R1014H3500-2500 BCEP96*Chalcolithic (Rinaldone Gaudo)Monte San BiagioN1a1a1a3
R118H2400-600 CEP96>Y21618>Y19962>Y20838>Y20839>Y21598Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoH1e1a
R1285C1a2974-1035 CEV20>V86>V182>V222MedievalCancelleriaT2c1a


Thanks, i always found interesting that, G2a2a and G2a2b were found together in European Neolithic and later phases. While G2a1 is almost solely in the Caucasus Mountains as we know. I wonder when and where G2a2 and G2a1 splited and how they started to spread. It's interesting that for now, no Mesolithic samples from Anatolia or the Caucasus have shown neither of them.
 
So here is all samples so far, also thanks to whoever put them together in excel file.


SAMPLE IDY-HAPLOGROUPDATETERMINAL Y-SNPPERIOD/CULTURELOCATIONmtDNA
R11I2a210100-9816 BCEM436MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b1
R7I2a2a8821-8642 BCEpre-M223MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b1
R15I2a2a7284-7065 BCEpre-M223MesolithicGrotta ContinenzaU5b3
R26I2a2a3500-900 BCEM223>CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>Y7240Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuH1j9
R27I2a2a3500-900 BCEM223>CTS616>Y3721>Y3670>Y7240Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuH1e1a
R32I2a2a300-700 CEM223>CTS616Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoH2a1
R104I2a1a400-600 CEL158>Y3992>Z2049>L160>PF4088Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiU5b3a1a
R63I2a1b970-1010 CEM423>Y3104>L161.1>S2639>L1498>Y3749MedievalVilla MagnaK1a2a
R110I1400-600 CEDF29>Z63>BY151>FGC81364>S2078>S2077>Y2245>Y7234Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiH1e
R1286I11411-1447 CEP109>FGC16695>Y3662>S14887>Y4115*MedievalCancelleriaH1g1
R9G2a2a5607-5485 BCEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z42565NeolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a4a1
R64G2a2a1070-1150 CEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228MedievalVilla MagnaHV0a
R52G2a2a1280-1430 CEPF3147>PF3148>PF3177>L91>Z6484>Z6128>PF3239>Z6802>Z6228MedievalVilla MagnaT1a1
R29G2a2b3500-900 BCEPF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>PF3378Chalcolithic/BASu CrocefissuJ2b1a
R4G2a2b2950-2880 BCEPF3359>F1193>PF3369>F872>F2572>F2214>pre-F807ChalcolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a+195
R131G2a2b0-200 CEM406>M3317>FGC5089>FGC5081>L14*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaT1a12
R47G2a2b232-333 CEM406>M3317>PF3293>PF3316>Z6029>S9591Imperial RomeCentocelleJ1c1c
R70G2a2b100-300 CEP303*Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaT1a
R30G2a2b300-700 CEP303>L140*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoL4a2
R132G2a2b136-326 CECTS342>Z724>Z1903>CTS7045>Z3408>Z3428>YP4752>Z6434Imperial RomeMarcellino & PietroR0a2j
R1545G2a2b1-400 CEU1>L13>Z2022>Z6759>pre-Z6764Imperial RomeMazzano RomanoH8c
R108G2a2b400-600 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT2b+150
R55G2a2b1280-1430 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808MedievalVilla MagnaJ2b1a
R1224G2a2b1480-1490 CEL497>Z1815>Y7538>Z1816>Z1823>Z726>CTS4803>S2808>S23438>S18765RenaissanceCancelleriaT2b4f
R6R1b5242-5177 BCEV2219>V88>Y7777>G72+C51:G68+F50+C51:G68+M52f*NeolithicGrotta ContinenzaK1a1
R1016R1b900-700 BCEZ2103Latin_IACastel di DecimaH1aj1a
R123R1b77-213 CEZ2103Imperial RomeCasale del dolceT2a1b
R1021R1b700-600 BCEL51>Z2118*Latin_IABoville ErnicaU4a1a
R111R1b0-200 CEL51>Z2118>Z2116*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaH
R61R1b1280-1430 CEL51>Z2118MedievalVilla MagnaHV
R33R1b300-700 CEU152>L2>DF110Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoK1a
R1220R1b1480-1490 CEDF27>Y30754>Y85515RenaissanceCancelleriaT2f1a1
R851R1b800-500 BCEU152>L2>DF90>F14641>F29470Latin_IAArdeaH2a
R437R1b400-200 BCEU152>L2>ZZ48>ZZ56>F10530>PR5365Latin_IA (Prenestini Tribe)Palestrina SelciataH10
R435R1b600-200 BCEU152>Z56>Z43>Z145>CTS6389>FT152016Latin_IA (Prenestini Tribe)Palestrina ColombellaH11a
R36R1b400-600 CEU152>Z56>Z43>Z145>CTS6389>FT152016Late AntiquityCelioT1a1
R1287R1b1411-1447 CEU152MedievalCancelleriaT2b
R31R1b332-419 CEP312>DF19>Z302>Z8193*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoK1c1
R58R1b700-1500 CEU106>S263>S264>S497>Y24836>Y28640*MedievalVilla MagnaH1c3
R1548R1a27 BCE-300 CEZ93>Z94>Z2124>Z2122>F1345>F2935>F1019Imperial RomeMonterotondoH2a
R66R2a100-300 CEY3399>Y3370Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaT2
R17J5324-5223 BCEPF5008>L581>Z37823>PF5000>pre-Y29673NeolithicRipabianca di MonteradoU8b1b
R81J0-200 CEM67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842>Y15913Imperial RomeViale Rossini, Necropoli SalariaK1b1c
R105J1400-600 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Z1884>FGC12834>PF4876>L829Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT1a
R1547J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Z1884>Y2919>Y6094Imperial RomeMonterotondoK1a7
R1549J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Y15152>ZS4336 (xZS4312,Y154827)Imperial RomeMonterotondoU5b2b3
R128J1a0-400 CEZ1828>Z1842>Y4423 (xZS3042,BY100,CTS1460a,Y83506)Imperial RomeCasale del dolceHV+16311
R130J1a300-500 CEP58>Y4067>L817>pre-L818Late AntiquityMarcellino & PietroH107
R835J1a27 BCE-300 CEZ2331>Z2324>Z2317>Z2313>YSC0000234>Y3081Imperial RomeCivitanova MarcheH2a5
R34J2a300-700 CEPF5008>L581*Late AntiquityMausoleo di AugustoH+195+146
R117J2a400-600 CEL26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>Y5014>M319Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoT2b
R19J2a5345-5221 BCEM67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842*NeolithicRipabianca di MonteradoU5b3a1
R68J2a1a100-300 CEL25>F3133>Z7706>Y13534Imperial RomeAzienda Nazionale Autonoma delle StradaU7a4a1a
R1551J2a1a55-211 CEM67>Z1847>Z7671>CTS900>Z7661>Y3020>Y11200>Z30677Imperial RomeMonterotondoH
R1550J2a1a27 BCE-300 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394>Z6264*Imperial RomeMonterotondoT2c1c
R969J2a1a1600-1700 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>Y6240>PF7394RenaissanceTivoli Palazzo CiantiU5b
R115J2a1a0-200 CEM67>Z1847>Z500>M92>Z508>Z504>PF7412>Z515>PH672*Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaU4
R44J2a1a1-400 CEL26>PF5087>PF5116>PF5119>L558>M67>Z1847>Y4036>Z467>S11842>Z6271Imperial RomeIsola SacraT2
R76J2a1a0-200 CEL26>PF5087>PF5160>PF5197>PF5172>Y154816>Y47649*Imperial RomeViale Rossini, Necropoli SalariaT2c1a
R136J2a1a300-500 CEL25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>CTS3601>PF5456>Y24651>Z40772*Late AntiquityMarcellino & PietroT2d2
R1221J2a1a1480-1490 CEL25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435>Z2148>Z2177>PH185>FGC32147RenaissanceCancelleriaH1e2
R970J2a1a1600-1700 CEL26>PF5087>PF5160>L24>Y22662>L25>Z438>Z387>L70>Z435*RenaissanceTivoli Palazzo CiantiJ1b3
R1283J2b1771-947 CEM205>PF7321*MedievalCancelleriaH12
R50J2b1135-244 CEM205>PF7321>Y134194Imperial RomeCentocelleH5
R474J2b2a700-600 BCEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Y15058>Z38240>CTS6190Etruscan_IACivitavecchiaH
R116J2b2a0-200 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Z8421>Z631Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaU3a2
R54J2b2a1280-1430 CEM241>L283>Z600>Z585>Z615>Z597>Z2507>Z638>Z1297>Y27522>Y23094*MedievalVilla MagnaH4a1
R113E1b1b0-200 CEV12>Y2863>CTS693>Y6730>FGC7703>CTS1239>CTS6667>Y2862>BY8432>pre-BY8536Imperial RomeVia Paisiello, Necropoli SalariaH26a1
R59E1b1b820-990 CEV12>Y2863>CTS693>Y6730>FGC7703>CTS1239>CTS6667>Y21919>Y21918*MedievalVilla MagnaN1b1a
R107E1b1b400-600 CEV13>Z1057>CTS1273>BY3880>Z5018>S2979>Z16659>L241>Z38770*Late AntiquityCrypta BalbiT2h
R1219E1b1b1417-1463 CEV13>Z1057>CTS1273RenaissanceCancelleriaH11a
R53E1b1b1280-1430 CEL19>PF2431>Z21068>PF2438>Y10541>Y10561>pre-FGC19010MedievalVilla MagnaU2e1c1
R850T1a1a800-500 BCEL162>L208*Latin_IAArdeaT2c1f
R1543T1a1a1-400 CEL162>L208>CTS11451>Y4119>CTS2214>Z709>Y9109>Y18004*Imperial RomeMazzano RomanoH1e
R120T1a2b400-600 CEL131>Y6033>pre-FGC23008Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoI1c
R1014H3500-2500 BCEP96*Chalcolithic (Rinaldone Gaudo)Monte San BiagioN1a1a1a3
R118H2400-600 CEP96>Y21618>Y19962>Y20838>Y20839>Y21598Late AntiquitySan ErcolanoH1e1a
R1285C1a2974-1035 CEV20>V86>V182>V222MedievalCancelleriaT2c1a

Interesting, so R437 is U152

R437 R1b 400-200 BCE U152>L2>ZZ48>ZZ56>F10530>PR5365 Latin_IA (Prenestini Tribe) Palestrina Selciata H10
 
Mtdna H10 was found in alemanni tribe remains in germany ������
interesting that this latin dude carry it������

p.s
by the way a little update
in my true ancestry total genetic similarity
shortest distance (y)
https://i.imgur.com/lZTyglQ.png

P.S
so i guess western jews which acquired a lot of southern european blood
cluster with some of these imperial romans
mainly the ones in -cluster C5 from the paper

i am not surprised by my results of total austosomaly
 
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You're an American; more specifically a mix of the second wave of immigrants that came over in the 20 century. I think that would be a viable cultural identity. You were born in the American Century (post-WWII 20th century) a time when the United States reached the zenith of power and prestige; truly becoming a new Roman empire.

But also, there's quite a lot of Irish/Italians; almost every Italian-American I know is either marrying an Irish person, or is partly Irish. They can pretty much be an ethnicity on to themselves, imo

Jewish people I know tend to stay with each other. But they will also consort and sometimes marry other groups primarily from the second wave of working-class immigrants.

This, I suppose, is my problem making sense of autosomal DNA results. Pieces of my family have been in America since the 17th century, and since then they've been mixing with other immigrants from most every nation in Europe. All my DNA results show is that I'm related to everyone, though with a shading towards northwest Europe.
 
My father wishes we were G2a, good farmer lines, one thing we have in common is the desire to emulate our maternal grandfathers; his being a first generation Sicilian-American cattle rancher in southern California and mine being a New England Yankee of 100% Colonial English stock, descended from Samuel Gorton and Anne Hutchinson and a direct male-line descendant of the last man in England to be burned to death for his religious beliefs, very Anglophile and a history buff. So my dad has a nice little farm in eastern Connecticut, with chickens and cows (my niece loves the cows, which I call her 'beef puppies') while I research the family tree and absorb myself in historical minutiae. I told my father that we, being R1a, are steppe invaders, not peaceful farmers, although I do have farmer mtdna and he may have it as well.
 
My father wishes we were G2a, good farmer lines, one thing we have in common is the desire to emulate our maternal grandfathers; his being a first generation Sicilian-American cattle rancher in southern California and mine being a New England Yankee of 100% Colonial English stock, descended from Samuel Gorton and Anne Hutchinson and a direct male-line descendant of the last man in England to be burned to death for his religious beliefs, very Anglophile and a history buff. So my dad has a nice little farm in eastern Connecticut, with chickens and cows (my niece loves the cows, which I call her 'beef puppies') while I research the family tree and absorb myself in historical minutiae. I told my father that we, being R1a, are steppe invaders, not peaceful farmers, although I do have farmer mtdna and he may have it as well.

Well, my paternal line is G2a and they were good farmers, coming from Yorkshire c1686, and moving through west Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and on into Iowa. My father was the last farm boy. My mother's line is also descended from Neolithic farmers, K1a4h, from Holstein, Germany, but later, in the early 1850's.

Both Y-DNA and mtDNA are easy to understand and somehow satisfying because you can tie them to identifiable individuals.
 
And your point is?

src_1334607036089.jpg


Something wrong with yDna J2, whether J2b or J2a?

If one could make accurate predictions from maps of modern frequencies it looks to me like either an arrival through Greece and the area around Albania or directly from places like Crete, Cyprus, or Asia Minor. They might have gone directly to Rome or after some hundreds of years in Southern Italy.

My question was whether you have any pertinent information of where those subclades each are most frequent and when they might have arrived, i.e. the dating. For example, how about Crete? The Peloponnesus? Coastal Anatolia?

That's what we're trying to do, yes? Figure out how all of the migrations which make up Europeans occurred?

I saw another map where Western Turkey, around Bosporus channel, Asian side, has autosomal similar with Italians. This creates the impression that people from this area migrated to Italy through sea ways, not necessary through Greece, but circumventing it. That's entirely possible since those people were navigating keeping the land in their sight, not necessary stellar navigation. That could be the source of Italian J///
 

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