Illyrian and Albanian - a linguistic approach

Easy to speculate when you have no written language. Nobody can contradict you. Linguists can take 7-10 words and weave a whole theory about history and archaeology around it. Never seen anything like it. They put conspiracy theorists to shame.
 
Easy to speculate when you have no written language. Nobody can contradict you. Linguists can take 7-10 words and weave a whole theory about history and archaeology around it. Never seen anything like it. They put conspiracy theorists to shame.

Archeology and history supports the fact of phillistines being european invaders. There is evidence in a pig species they brought, pottery, the descriptions of goliaths armour, peleset sea peoples etc.

Anyway Messapian language has inscriptions, and theyr close to Albanian. Catch up to the latest consensus
 
Easy to speculate when you have no written language. Nobody can contradict you. Linguists can take 7-10 words and weave a whole theory about history and archaeology around it. Never seen anything like it. They put conspiracy theorists to shame.

Yeah, those scholars that put Albanian as Thracian/Dacian should be considered conspiracy theorists. You described them well there. They made never any good arguements and just speculation. What has followed is a bandwagon of fan boys of such theories
 
Archeology and history supports the fact of phillistines being european invaders. There is evidence in a pig species they brought, pottery, the descriptions of goliaths armour, peleset sea peoples etc.
Anyway Messapian language has inscriptions, and theyr close to Albanian. Catch up to the latest consensus
doubt it
.
from studies
The other hypothesis is that Illyrian is related to Messapic, a language spoken in Apulia (the "heel" of Italy). There are indeed ties between the two areas: because northern winds are common in the Adriatic Sea, it is easy to sail from the Illyrian islands to the the opposite shore. Returning home, these sailors brought back products that were stored in Apulian pottery, which has been found in great quantities along the Illyrian shore.
Because we know so little about the Illyrian language, these hypotheses cannot be tested. However, we are certain that they cannot both be true because Messapic and Albanian are certainly not related.


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we also have
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.
https://www.omniglot.com/writing/messapic.htm
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I doubt messapic is illyrian, my opnion..........messapic is messapic, dalmatian is dalmatian , pannonian is pannonian etc etc
 
doubt it
.
from studies
The other hypothesis is that Illyrian is related to Messapic, a language spoken in Apulia (the "heel" of Italy). There are indeed ties between the two areas: because northern winds are common in the Adriatic Sea, it is easy to sail from the Illyrian islands to the the opposite shore. Returning home, these sailors brought back products that were stored in Apulian pottery, which has been found in great quantities along the Illyrian shore.
Because we know so little about the Illyrian language, these hypotheses cannot be tested. However, we are certain that they cannot both be true because Messapic and Albanian are certainly not related.


.
we also have
.
.
https://www.omniglot.com/writing/messapic.htm
.
I doubt messapic is illyrian, my opnion..........messapic is messapic, dalmatian is dalmatian , pannonian is pannonian etc etc
...Scottish is Scottish, Irish is Irish, English is English. Am I right?
 
doubt it
from studies
The other hypothesis is that Illyrian is related to Messapic, a language spoken in Apulia (the "heel" of Italy). There are indeed ties between the two areas: because northern winds are common in the Adriatic Sea, it is easy to sail from the Illyrian islands to the the opposite shore. Returning home, these sailors brought back products that were stored in Apulian pottery, which has been found in great quantities along the Illyrian shore.
Because we know so little about the Illyrian language, these hypotheses cannot be tested. However, we are certain that they cannot both be true because Messapic and Albanian are certainly not related.


.
we also have
.
.

we also have
.
.
https://www.omniglot.com/writing/messapic.htm
.
I doubt messapic is illyrian, my opnion..........messapic is messapic, dalmatian is dalmatian , pannonian is pannonian etc etc


from Terra dei Messapi:

imo some of my results hide Illyrian DNA in Albania, RO, Serbia, West Balkans, ...

jQMqPTT.jpg


2ng2ywZ.jpg


eWxJmDS.jpg


Hd5uEnp.jpg


y94hiQe.jpg
 
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Is it possible the Dorians were Illyrians that invaded Greece and adopted the Greek language, much like the Normans adopted the Romance language?


300 tumuli in Piera, the Makedones' home according to Hesiod, archaeologically show that Illyrians & Phrygians ruled there until at least 650 BC. The archaeology of prehistoric Macedonia is uniform & likewise shows no Mycenaean (Greek) influence, lending support to the school of thought that rejects Macedonian as a greek dialect.
D2L5f6BX0AIyIG6.jpg:large
 
Is it possible the Dorians were Illyrians that invaded Greece and adopted the Greek language, much like the Normans adopted the Romance language?


300 tumuli in Piera, the Makedones' home according to Hesiod, archaeologically show that Illyrians & Phrygians ruled there until at least 650 BC. The archaeology of prehistoric Macedonia is uniform & likewise shows no Mycenaean (Greek) influence, lending support to the school of thought that rejects Macedonian as a greek dialect.
D2L5f6BX0AIyIG6.jpg:large


I think that is a scenario that shouldn't be dismissed but one that should be consider and looked upon!
I even had a thread about the similarities between the Illyrians and the real Hellenes, the Dorians, who brought the name but were eventually Mycenaeanized and adopted the language of the people they conquered, much like what happened with the old Bulgars!
Here is the thread: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...-the-connection-between-Dorians-and-Illyrians
 
I think that is a scenario that shouldn't be dismissed but one that should be consider and looked upon!
I even had a thread about the similarities between the Illyrians and the real Hellenes, the Dorians, who brought the name but were eventually Mycenaeanized and adopted the language of the people they conquered, much like what happened with the old Bulgars!
Here is the thread: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...-the-connection-between-Dorians-and-Illyrians

Aspar, Hylli is still used in North Albania and is translated in English star. In Standart Albanian is yll.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hylli_i_Dritës
It is used also as a surname:
2. Dritan Hylli
http://www.gazetatema.net/2017/06/2...n-surprizat-tom-doshi-ja-si-ndahen-deputetet/
 
Worth mentioning is the Northern Illyrian tribe of the Hyllinii in modern Croatia.
 
View attachment 10840
I was just looking at these inscriptions from a medieval church in albania.

The top line makes sense in albanian:
"Bergiene mame e perentis" - virgjen/virgjer mame e perendise

But i am not able to read the first and last words of the 2nd sentence.
The last word in that sentence look something like 'raitoreloi'.
Any albanians here who knows what this word could mean?
Looking at the latin inscription(insc. 3), 'raitoreloi' should mean something like servant

EDIT: at a second glance, , maybe it is a 'f' and not a 'r', which would make sense 'faitoreloi' - as in albanian fajtore(maybe in albanian, its a sinner, and not a servant like it was in latin)
 
The image attachment feature doesnt workon eupedia. Upload your image to imgur first, and then copy its Url and then insert image from url (unceck the box that says retrieve remote file.
Im curious about this inscription so would like to see it
 
Thanks, i forgot it didn't work:
8dVbljh.png


1. Albanian
2. Greek
3. Some kind of romanian or vlach or something
4. Latin

The 2 middle words in the second sentence of the albanian version, 'pre nis' are pretty straighforward in mordern albanian - 'per nesh'
 
This is my attempt at a transcription

βήργιηνε Μάμε έ περεντισ (Vergeene Mame e Perentis)
δεφ πρέ ​νέε φαιτόρελοι ( Deph pre nee phaitoreloi)

how old is this inscription?
 
the church is from 1200's, while insciptions in this church only start after 1400's. But i don't know the exact age of this one.
 
If my Greek does not fail me it says Queen Virgin Mother help your servants (subjects).

Hmmm...I did not know that Old Albanian & Vlach used the Greek alphabet.

Also both Old Albanian and Vlach seem to have borrowed the root Βιργ-virg from the Latin. Old Albanian also seems to borrow "perentis" from the Latin.
 
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Worth mentioning is the Northern Illyrian tribe of the Hyllinii in modern Croatia.
Romanian map covering as late as 3rd-4th century AD, shows non-Romanized Albanians(Illyrians) very far north still.
Vatra.jpg
 
Romanian map covering as late as 3rd-4th century AD, shows non-Romanized Albanians(Illyrians) very far north still.
Vatra.jpg

It's a Romanian map and it's not supported by any historical evidence. Romanians have their problems with Hungarians, this is the context of this map and some papers written by Romanian scholars. It's not a credible map.
 
doubt it
.
from studies
The other hypothesis is that Illyrian is related to Messapic, a language spoken in Apulia (the "heel" of Italy). There are indeed ties between the two areas: because northern winds are common in the Adriatic Sea, it is easy to sail from the Illyrian islands to the the opposite shore. Returning home, these sailors brought back products that were stored in Apulian pottery, which has been found in great quantities along the Illyrian shore.
Because we know so little about the Illyrian language, these hypotheses cannot be tested. However, we are certain that they cannot both be true because Messapic and Albanian are certainly not related.


.
we also have
.
.
https://www.omniglot.com/writing/messapic.htm
.
I doubt messapic is illyrian, my opnion..........messapic is messapic, dalmatian is dalmatian , pannonian is pannonian etc etc

Because there are winds in favouring the sailing between the two regions, it doesn't means Mesapians were Illyrian.
The maximum we may say on Messapians it's that they were related to Illyrians, which means they spoke a related language. If they descent from the sane ancestors, they may have split before the iron age(1200bce), somewhere during the bronze age , probably 1600bce and onwards until 1200bce. This makes little connection to modern Albanian as long as Albanian descent from Illyrian and Illyrian split from Messapian long before. Hence, don't expect to find many similarities between modern Albanian and ancient Messapian. We know who really were Illyrian during the iron age according to the Greek myth, and Mesapians weren't listed among these people.
 
Is it possible the Dorians were Illyrians that invaded Greece and adopted the Greek language, much like the Normans adopted the Romance language?


300 tumuli in Piera, the Makedones' home according to Hesiod, archaeologically show that Illyrians & Phrygians ruled there until at least 650 BC. The archaeology of prehistoric Macedonia is uniform & likewise shows no Mycenaean (Greek) influence, lending support to the school of thought that rejects Macedonian as a greek dialect.
D2L5f6BX0AIyIG6.jpg:large

If we read about the founding myth of the Royal Macedonian house, we will see the truth about them. They were just Hellenized Illyrians. In what extent was the Hellenization is a matter of debate.

"The Argean brothers were expelled from Peloponnese, and went living among Illyrians. They settled there and founded their kingdom" etc etc.
 

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