Berbers and Albanians, E haplogroup and linguistic similarity

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Klyosov
Click to expand...
Klyosov is Russian (Slavic)
R1a1 is Slavic
Their desire is slavic propaganda.

But who wants to participate and discuss he should do without the insults and spam and should uses arguments, knowledge and resources.
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The slavic propaganda, of all illiterate people of your nation, I dont wanna discuss yourn propganda, which smelt like shit.

Go to Stormfront.org with your shit propaganda, and we even dont want to dicuss your bullshits.

And no, I am not frustrated, I just wanted to tell you, not selling lies to people who dont know much about history.

I am participating here without insulting anybody.

Here is the troth if you want to learn that Ev13 was here, and Albanians have not any relation to Egypt. Ev13 was here since Mesolithic.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v17/n6/full/ejhg2008249a.html

And here is the origin of your "proto-serbs"

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php
 
Again I cite you this from the Scientific work:

This archaeological congruence between the Mesolithic
of the Balkans and southern Anatolia may mirror the
similar E-V13 expansion times observed for Konya,
Franchthi Cave and Macedonian Greece, all approximately
9000 years ago. Moreover, E-V13 YSTR-related data from
Bulgaria and Macedonia,28 both with a variances of 0.28,
suggest an expansion time of approximately 10 000 years
ago.
 
R1a is of Mongolian origin, because all they N O P Q R are kindred to eachother.

R1a and R1b became white people after they intermarried with local women in Europe.
 
iapetoc said:
cause in byzantine egyptians even today they are called GYPT-IAN and the COPTIC KOPT-ES = COPT-ES

then THAT APPROACH FITS TO YOU,

MEANING THAT SHQIPTAR MEANS EGYPTIAN.
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Wrong, Shqipetar, comes from Shqipe which in albanian means Eagle. Even there is e theory that Shqipetar comes from Shqip which means clearly, that is "I speak clearly" = Flas shqip, even "I speak albanian" = again "flas shqip".

Even shqiptar is related to skepter, Scepter.

ANother word for eagle is Skyfter etc.

It has not any relation to Egypt.

Now after we discus about name of Albanians, we now discus about name of the greeks: Greek comes from gayreek.
 
Neander said:
R1a is of Mongolian origin, because all they N O P Q R are kindred to eachother.

R1a and R1b became white people after they intermarried with local women in Europe.
Click to expand...

Neander
I really think you're wrong, you have no source or evidence for your claim.

But I opened a new thread what the participants of forum think about it.

Old Europeans are R1b, R1a, I and N (Kalevi Wiik)
 
Neander said:
Klyosov is Russian (Slavic)
R1a1 is Slavic
Their desire is slavic propaganda.

The slavic propaganda, of all illiterate people of your nation, I dont wanna discuss yourn propganda, which smelt like shit.

Go to Stormfront.org with your shit propaganda, and we even dont want to dicuss your bullshits.

And no, I am not frustrated, I just wanted to tell you, not selling lies to people who dont know much about history.

I am participating here without insulting anybody.

Here is the troth if you want to learn that Ev13 was here, and Albanians have not any relation to Egypt. Ev13 was here since Mesolithic.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v17/n6/full/ejhg2008249a.html

And here is the origin of your "proto-serbs"

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php
Click to expand...

Kalevi Wiik is Finnish, Klosyov is American, Cruciani is Italian, Ferri is Italian etc.

And I and R have long come to the Balkans before the E.

You can see:

Kalevi Wiik

Cit.

(7) About 25 kya the “Middle Eastern” Clan F sent another branch to Anatolia and further to the Balkans, and a new sub-Clan I emerged.

25kya = 25000 years

And you can see Kalevi Wiik R1b, R1a, I and N called "Old Europeans".


E from Africa arrived in the Middle East and in Asia Minor, to the Balkans.

And Cruciani et all give rigorous testing that it was 2000 to 2700 year BC.

It is 22,000 years after I and 9,000 years after the R.

Battaglia et al speak about the time of expansion but they do not work the rigorous tests that were done Cruciani et al.

And you see Kalevi Wiik don't call E carriers Old Europeans.

So E carriers are not Old Europeans, if you're trying to say contrary you are not able because you have no arguments.

E carriers are the last arrived in the Balkans, long after I and R, and it is a scientific fact.

There is no source that says that the E carriers are Old Europeans.

 
Hey People, I dont know why do you make it, like you have found America for the first time, as C. Colombo.

All we know, that Albanians are E, and Berbers are E, and Egyptians are E.

But I have some problems with you all. Just read here about these problems:

1. Did you ever read, at least a single book about albanian culture, history or language?

2. Do you know that Ev13 is not Em78?? These are different haplogroups.

3. How can you change the whole history with just one "scientific work" by Klyosov?

4. Did you ever read a single book about illyrians (I mean a book which has whole informations)?

5. How can we compare linguistic to genetics, when all Haplogrouops of the world come from "Adam"??

6. (this is not question), I think before you seek from me to respect your thread, please go read some books about albanians and Illyrians. There is a plenty of works about illyrian or albanian people, and one "scientific work" of Klyosov, even if there are 2 3 ore even 10 "scientific works" cannot change history so lightly as you think. If you are intellectuall, please respect yourself, dont waste your time with bullshit. The time is golden.

I responded to iapetoc, for the name "Shqipetar". I bet, nobody of you knows all theories, of how came ethnonimk "shqipetar". Even some of you hear this name for the first time. Sorry Garrick, but I dont know who are you, therefore you cannot say that you are intellectuall, even I dont care if you say that. When you dont know nothing about a nation, it is better, dont open such stupid thread.
 
And you see Kalevi Wiik don't call E carriers Old Europeans.
Click to expand...
Kalewi says clearly, that Neolithic (E and J) are true indoeuropians, who then IE-ize others.

So E carriers are not Old Europeans, if you're trying to say contrary you are not able because you have no arguments.
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But I still insist, because I have fact, I bring you scientific work:

This archaeological congruence between the Mesolithic
of the Balkans and southern Anatolia may mirror the
similar E-V13 expansion times observed for Konya,
Franchthi Cave and Macedonian Greece, all approximately
9000 years ago. Moreover, E-V13 YSTR-related data from
Bulgaria and Macedonia,28 both with a variances of 0.28,
suggest an expansion time of approximately 10 000 years
ago.
 
Neander said:
Hey People, I dont know why do you make it, like you have found America for the first time, as C. Colombo.

All we know, that Albanians are E, and Berbers are E, and Egyptians are E.
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no, some Albainas are E, some Egyptians are E, some Berbers are E...
E is more dominant in those people than in some other, but is also present in many other areas as far as UK...


2. Do you know that Ev13 is not Em78?? These are different haplogroups.
Click to expand...
yes, but have shared more recent origin than with non-E haplogroups...
this is not about African and non-African people, as there is R1b in Africa and they are black people..
it's not attempt to say African people are lower worth (as they are not), and to claim E is from Africa, thus E is lower worth...
all haplogroups are from Africa... and all are equally worth...

3. How can you change the whole history with just one "scientific work" by Klyosov?
Click to expand...
it is scientific work..
it doesnot change history...
it is known that Illyrians came to Balkan from somewhere...
and Greek mythology suggests it was from Asia minor...

5. How can we compare linguistic to genetics, when all Haplogrouops of the world come from "Adam"??
Click to expand...
idea is that haplogroups are like roots with branches spreading over surface of Earth and intermingling with branches of other haplogroups.... languages are developed along those movements... so theoretically it should be possible to find words common for root haplogroups...
"adam" is root of all those trees...

I responded to iapetoc, for the name "Shqipetar". I bet, nobody of you knows all theories, of how came ethnonimk "shqipetar". Even some of you hear this name for the first time. Sorry Garrick, but I dont know who are you, therefore you cannot say that you are intellectuall, even I dont care if you say that. When you dont know nothing about a nation, it is better, dont open such stupid thread.
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origins of tribal names are difficult to figure out, but interesting topic...
same tribal name can be related to many words...
as tribe has name but it has some cultural characteristics, and than neighbouring people can use the word of tribe for something that looks to them as characteristic for that tribe

self-identication "Shqipetar" may be related to Illyrian tribe of Scirtari

tribal name Tosks (J2, I2, R1a and E) to Illyrian tribe Uscan and may share common root with tribal name Etruscan/Tuscan (R1a and J2 and perhaps E)

and Geghs (dominant E) may origin from Dardanians who came to Balkan much later than Illyrians, and came from Troad and Lydia in Asia minor, so their tribal name may be related to person name Gyges who was legendary king of Lydians who was shepard and became king by finding dead previous king and taking his magic ring.. story of Gyges could be about E people taking over control of Lydia as Gyges was attacked by Cimmerians (I haplogroup) and asked help from Egypt (E people),, magic ring might be about some strategical area..

but these are all just my guesses based on location, history & haplogroups...
 
Neander
There are people who think that the earth is plate.
And when someone says that the earth is round they will resent it and still claim that the earth is plate.

There are eminent scientists in the world who are at a much higher level of knowledge.

This is the biography of Dr. Anatole Klyosov
KLYOSOV, Anatole Alex, chemist, biochemist, researcher; MS, Moscow State University, 1969, PhD, 1972, DSc, 1977. Scientist, Moscow State University, 1969-72, assistant professor 1972-75, senior scientist 1975-79, Professor, 1978-81; Professor, Head Carbohydrate Research Laboratory, USSR Academy of Sciences, Moscow, 1981-92; Professor of Biochemistry, Harvard Medical School, Boston, 1990-1998; Vice President, Research and Development Kadant Composites (former Thermo Fibergen), 1996-2005; Consulting Vice President, LDI Composites Co. (former Kadant Composites), 2005-2006; Chief Scientist, Pro-Pharmaceuticals (2000--); Visiting Lecturer Biochemistry, Harvard University, 1974-75; advisory board Council on Biotechnology, Academy of Sciences of USSR, 1981-90; chairman of commission on cellulose bioconversion, 1982-90; expert panel Biofocus Foundation, Stockholm-Washington, since 1991. Author: The Practical Course of Chemical and Enzyme Kinetics, 1976; Enzyme Catalysis, 1980; Enzymatic Degradation of Polymers, 1984; Enzyme Engineering at the Industrial Level, 1989; Wood-Plastic Composites (2007, John Wiley & Sons), and its translations to Chinese (May, 2010) and Russian (September, 2010); The Internet (Notes of a Scientist), 2010; The Origin of Man, 2010; Title Editor and contributor: Enzyme Engineering (1980, Plenum Press); Carbohydrate Drug Design (2006, Oxford University Press); Galectins (2008, John Wiley and Sons). Recipient, the USSR Young Scientist National Prize, 1978; USSR National Prize in Science, 1984; USSR Science and Technology Gold Medal, 1988; Jewish Association of Cohanim Latin America Gold Medal, 2009. Member: American Chemical Society, Society of Plastic Engineers, American Society for Testing and Materials, American Architectural Manufacturers Association, World Academy of Art and Science, Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy. Home: 36 Walsh Road, Newton MA 02459. Office: Pro-Pharmaceuticals, 7 Wells Avenue, Newton MA 02459.

("Who's Who in America", 55th Edition, 2001, Volume 1 (A-K), p.2882, and subsequent editions; 2009, Vol. 1, p. 2693)
("Who's Who in Science and Engineering", 6th Edition, 2002-2003, p.506, and subsequent editions)
("Who's Who in the World", 19th Edition, 2002, p.1136, and subsequent editions)
...
Stories, Books, Papers:
- "Behold the Man. Part 1. 2006"
- "Behold the Woman. Part 2. 2006"
- "Joseph and His Brothers. Part I. DNA-Genealogy. 2007"
- "Joseph and His Brothers. Part II. Ashkenazim and Sephardim. 2007"
- "Joseph and His Brothers. Part III. Search for the Lost Tribes. 2007"
- "Joseph and His Brothers. Part IV. Search for the Lost Tribes in Asia and Africa. 2007"
- "Joseph and His Brothers. Part V. Search for the Lost Tribes over the Oceans. 2007"
- "DNA-Genealogy and the Search for the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Part I. 2007" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "DNA-Genealogy and the Search for the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Part II. 2007" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "DNA-Genealogy and the Search for the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Part III. 2007" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "DNA-Genealogy and the Search for the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Part IV. 2007" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "DNA-Genealogy and the Search for the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. Part V. 2007" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Hindi, Russi Bhai-Bhai in DNA-Genealogy, or Where the Slavs Came From. 2007"
- "Search for Lost Tribes of Israel. A Story Written in the DNA. Part 1. 2007"
- "Search for Lost Tribes of Israel. A Story Written in the DNA. Part 2. 2007"
- "Mutations and Calculations in DNA-Genealogy (Discussion). 2007"
- "Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy. Part 1. 2008" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy. Part 2. 2008" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy. Part 3. 2008" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy. Part 4. 2008" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy. Part 5. 2008" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy. Part 6. 2008" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy. Part 7. 2008" (in the Notes on Jewish History)
- "Where the Slavs and Indo-Europeans Came From? DNA Genealogy Gives an Answer. Part 1. 2008"
- "Where the Slavs and Indo-Europeans Came From? DNA Genealogy Gives an Answer. Part 2. 2008"
- "To Die for a Princess. Part 1. 2008"
- "To Die for a Princess. Part 2. 2008"
- "Haplotypes of Russian East Slavs - Nine Tribes?. 2009"
- "Haplotypes of Russian Ugro-Finnic Northern Slavs - Seven Tribes?. 2009"
- "The genome-wide structure of the Jewish populations and its comparison with DNA genealogy data. 2010"
- A Book: "Stories on DNA Genealogy" (645 pp, in Russian, with some personal stories in English; published 2011)
- "The Origin of Slavs and Other Peoples. Stories on DNA Genealogy"
- "DNA Genealogy, Mutation Rates, and Some Historical Evidences Written in Y-Chromosome. I. Basic Principles and the Method" (J. Genetic Genealogy, 5, No. 2, 186-216 (2009)
- "DNA Genealogy, Mutation Rates, and Some Historical Evidences Written in Y-Chromosome. II. Walking the Map" (J. Genetic Genealogy, 5, No. 2, 217-256 (2009)
"DNA Genealogy, Mutation Rates, and Some Historical Evidences Written in Y-Chromosome" (Nature Precedings, 2008)
- "A comment on the paper: Extended Y chromosome haplotypes resolve multiple and unique lineages of the Jewish Priesthood". Human Genetics, 126, No. 5, 719-724 (2009)
- "Origin of the Jews and the Arabs: Date of their Most Recent Common Ancestor is Written in their Y-Chromosomes – However, There Were Two of Them" (Nature Precedings, 2010)
etc....

Now imagine that you're insulted by renowned international scientists such vote.

Your words:
Neander said:
Klyosov is Russian (Slavic)
R1a1 is Slavic
Their desire is slavic propaganda.
Click to expand...

The fact that you insult the scientists and their work is illegal rules of the forum. And imagine that the scientist reads Eupedia?

And if you dispute the scientist of this level you can not because you're too far from his level of knowledge and references.

Neander said:
and one "scientific work" of Klyosov, even if there are 2 3 ore even 10 "scientific works" cannot change history
Click to expand...

And once again you try to detract renowned scientist putting his words in quotation marks.

He is a eminent scientist and you have to honor it.

And what is your level in science?

And science is not static. A new discovery may change the previous common opinion. The charm of science lies in research and discovery and people learning about the world around them, just the opposite of propaganda that you are trying to marketed but you can not.

People who participate on this subject are the researchers in order to deepen their knowledge in areas of interest. And here you are trying to spam the topic which is illegal, and yet you insult many even renowed scientists.

Dr. Klyosov found:

Cit.
The obtained data suggest that the first bearers of R1a1 haplogroup lived in the Balkans (Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Macedonia) about 11,600 years bp.

You have no reason to be mad at it because it is a science.
 
But I still insist, because I have fact, I bring you scientific work which is against Klyosov:

This archaeological congruence between the Mesolithic
of the Balkans and southern Anatolia may mirror the
similar E-V13 expansion times observed for Konya,
Franchthi Cave and Macedonian Greece, all approximately
9000 years ago. Moreover, E-V13 YSTR-related data from
Bulgaria and Macedonia,28 both with a variances of 0.28,
suggest an expansion time of approximately 10 000 years
ago.

So, somebody doesnt think as Klyosov thinks. His "Scientific work" is not hte only in planet.

I reapeat to you: Go back to your biblitohec (if you have), and read something about Albanians, before opening or talking anything about Albanians. Otherwise I will call it IGNORANCE.
 
Albanians dont exist as people or country, its a name given to them by western European powers " British". The chameleon game is over time to show your real identity.

The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". see:
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA
Wikipedia :
Albanians(Shqiptarë) !

Shqiptars alphabet interestingly enough, had Arabic letters until 1908 when the alphabet they use today was adopted.
Wikipedia :
Albanian alphabet(Latin) !


The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent.

One of the interesting facts that connect the Albanians to the Caucasus and that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands.
The Turks call the Albanians : Arnavutlu ! Derive from Arabic "Arnaoud" : "lion heart" !

Victor A Friedman
"We know what Ancient Greek, Latin, and Old Church Slavonic, and Sanskrit look liked, and we have Turkic texts going back to the 8th century. We know what these languages looked like in the early medieval period. For Albanian, our oldest significant texts are from the early modern period. We know these changes, these grammatical influences, were taking place in the late medieval and early Ottoman periods (although some are older in some languages). It was really in the Ottoman period that the Balkan languages as we know them today came to resemble one another."

Albania got its name later by the strangers- Anglo Saxons who gave the name Albania to all mountainous regions in Europe. (British Albanian, Belgian Albanian, Avstrian Albanian, that is Alpian etc.) which by the Celtic forms Alb, Alp, that is Albanik, means Mountain (See documentary and wider with: Leon Dominian's, Friunters of Language.192).


THIS IS REAL FACTS!
 
Dejavu,,,

You have forget to cite your NAZI-reference

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t548651-5/

It is nazi-page who spread lies, and nazi-serbian propaganda

I find hard to believe that this page (stormfront), even eupedia, is visited only ba intellectualls.
 
Neander said:
Dejavu,,,

You have forget to cite your NAZI-reference

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t548651-5/

It is nazi-page who spread lies, and nazi-serbian propaganda

I find hard to believe that this page (stormfront), even eupedia, is visited only ba intellectualls.
Click to expand...


I don't know if anyone here has actually been on the Stormfront site, but I have and it is strongly racist. I would recommend avoiding it altogther. Places like that have no value.
 
Why dont you link to the sources, if its not true?
Click to expand...
I will say only one sentence:

In your last nazi-citing from nazi-stormfront, there is not even a single true word, back to Bibliothec, because you need to read (if you have such capacity to read anything), and dont spread nazi propaganda here.
 
I don't know if anyone here has actually been on the Stormfront site, but I have and it is strongly racist. I would recommend avoiding it altogther. Places like that have no value.
Click to expand...
In fact, you know, because Dejavu is here, and he cited that page in tha last pseudo-article.
 
You cant write crap here and think you can get away if you got no link.
Start to link on everything you are confirming, or get lost we dont need spammers and low iq behavior.
 
Neander you have gone too far.

Neander said:
nazi-serbian propaganda
Click to expand...

Based on your words one can conclude that it is:

Albanian Jihad propaganda.

I will quote your words. You said a lot of bad for the Slavs, Serbs, Greeks, and even have the entire haplogroup R and N you termed mongoloid, and you insulted renowed American scientists Dr. Klyosov etc.


Your words:
Neander said:
It is nazi-page who spread lies, and nazi-serbian propaganda
Click to expand...
Completely without reason you mentioned Serbs because Dejavu with whom you communicate is not a Serb.


Neander said:
Now after we discus about name of Albanians, we now discus about name of the greeks: Greek comes from gayreek.
Click to expand...

Here you insult the Greeks.


Neander said:
R1a is of mongolian origin. And they originally were mongolian people, but, as for Ev13 it is not before 4700 years ago that came,

even it didnt came here, but it was evolved here, in the mesolithic, or at least in neolithic, it is linked to J2b, and are together since neolithic.

We know that Slavs came in Ballkan, I2a2 came in Balkan togethere. It is simple. Others are bullshit.
Click to expand...

Neander said:
Klyosov is Russian (Slavic)
R1a1 is Slavic
Their desire is slavic propaganda.
Click to expand...

And here you insult and Slavs.
Also you insult a prominent American scientist Dr. Anatole Klyosov.


Neander said:
R1a is brother of R1b, toGether the sons of R1, it is son of R which in turn is birther of Q (amerindian-siberian haoplogroup).

N O P Q R are monogoloid haplogroups.
Click to expand...

Here you insult R1a and R1b and some other haplogroups they are mongoloid.

Neander said:
So, somebody doesnt think as Klyosov thinks. His “Scientific work” is not hte only in planet.
Click to expand...
Again you scorn prominent scientist Dr. Klyosov putting quotation marks. Unbelievable.
You could see his biography, he is probably Jewish.

Not matter which nationality, he is a great scientist, and gave a lot of works and great contribution to world science.

You should appreciate such people, being a scientist means a great and hard work, and acquire such a reputation as Dr. Klyosov can only rare individuals.



Maybe the sport a closer to you.

Imagine a tennis beginner who learns to hold the racket in hands and trying to offend Federer or Djokovic.


...
And now what I wanted to tell you.
Next post.
 
Neander said:
I reapeat to you: Go back to your biblitohec (if you have), and read something about Albanians, before opening or talking anything about Albanians.
Click to expand...


I like reading but does not mean that every book I admire. Unfortunately, in the libraries are in various books can find a lot of propaganda.


Unfortunately, there are a lot of junk literature of the Balkans in every language where one nation celebrates itself and other degrades.

(New scientific knowledge about haplogroups provides excellent opportunities to the scientific way to get to the truth that reflects the real situation.)


Take for example DejaVu, he is very intelligent and well read and has lots of information.

Well done, but he has a goal, if someone goes to a large library and reads different books it may be due to different purposes.

Who does not have knowledge with DejaVu has nothing to look (though for some people he known to be very angry and insulted).


And you're wrong on several occasions persistently post and quoting ask a sentence from the work of Battaglia et al, 2008.


It is written is not favorable for Albanians.


Neander said:
But I still insist, because I have fact, I bring you scientific work which is against Klyosov:

This archaeological congruence between the Mesolithic
of the Balkans and southern Anatolia may mirror the
similar E-V13 expansion times observed for Konya,
Franchthi Cave and Macedonian Greece, all approximately
9000 years ago. Moreover, E-V13 YSTR-related data from
Bulgaria and Macedonia,28 both with a variances of 0.28,
suggest an expansion time of approximately 10 000 years
ago.

So, somebody doesnt think as Klyosov thinks. His "Scientific work" is not hte only in planet.

I reapeat to you: Go back to your biblitohec (if you have), and read something about Albanians, before opening or talking anything about Albanians. Otherwise I will call it IGNORANCE.
Click to expand...


First:


That write Battaglia et al has no common points with the work of Klyosov.

There is no refuting the results and conclusions of one author by another.

Even the authors of these works one another do not quote.

Klyosov speaks about the arrival time of R1a in the Balkans and Battaglia et al about convert the foragers to farmers and times are different because Klyosov speaks about time earlier for several thousand years.

These are two separate processes.


Second:


Unconscious sentence where you mentioned Macedonia given the material and arguments in the hands of DejaVu.

He now has to waves that are the oldest carriers of haplogroup E in the Balkans were Macedonians.

Anyway what the authors speak about Greek Macedonia, he puts it all on his side.

www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26187&page=15

#371

picture E-V13, on the right


(the picture is from the paper Battaglia et al, 2008)


But look for the Albanians. View the variance of haplogroup E-V13. Variance, speaks of more distant past.


E-V13 have large variance in Asia Minor and midst of Dalmatia, which means it was once much more dominant there.

And in Albania and Kosovo is small variance.



Now look at the data provided by Dienekes on the age of haplogroups among Albanians:


[FONT=&quot]http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07/expansion-of-e-v13-explained.html[/FONT]

Albanians (12) 970 250 AD 100 BC
Albanians (8) 959 525 AD 230 AD


Small variance in Battaglia et al indicates that the Albanians are young populations in Albania ("young" in terms of when they occur") and data Dienekes say that the Albanians formed around the crossing of the old to the new era.

This means that the Albanians can not be descendants of the Illyrians.

Do it now DejaVu shake data to the Illyrians and the Macedonians FYROM same population.

You should not give the example.


Third:
See further:

Battaglia et al, 2008


“The presence of E-M78* Y chromosomes in the Balkans (two Albanians), previously described virtually only in northeast Africa, upper Nile,28,63 gives rise to the question of what the original source of the E-M78 may have been.”


Haplogroup E-M78 * was found on the upper Nile and among the Albanians.

In Egypt and still exists today haplogroup E-V13.

Do not even someone turn out that the Albanians more recently arrived from Egypt than previously thought and that this could be the transition from the old to the new century.



I personally do not argue, but you with the sources that you give help your opponents to have more material against you, as if that was the little matter of haplogroup enfold you.


And you can read my discussion with DejaVu in several posts on the pages where he wrote:


DejaVu said:
Maybe, because you are Albanian from Serbia.
Click to expand...



Neander,


I’m researcher.


If you will honestly tell you, finding of Klyosov about R1a bearers came to the Balkans before 11.600 years has disrupted the picture that I built. Now I have to take into account the fact of the early existence of R1a in the Balkans and to change some of my settings, but it is a science.
 
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