Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Obviously the people who brought J2a to Iberia was the same people that brought it in the rest of Southern-Europe.
Catalans you don't know because they are not a sample in the Haak et al. study, and Basques do have it, look at K=19.Indo-Europeans did bring Caucasus_Gedrosia with them, but it got diluted on the way, and by the time R1b-P312 people reached Iberia not much of it was left. That explains why the Basques and Catalans have none of it despite having over 80% of R1b. .
Well, if you want to be more specific, how about J2a-M67 ? It's also found in Italy, Greece, etc.Not necessarily. J2a has different sources in Europe.
I fervently and with great interest went to look up what 100% European mean and I stumbled onto this:-
......both Africans and Asians contributed to the settlement of Europe, which began about 40,000 years ago. It seems very reasonable to assume that both continents nearest to Europe contributed to its settlement, even if perhaps at different times and maybe repeatedly. It is reassuring that the analysis of other markers also consistently gives the same results in this case. Moreover, a specific evolutionary model tested, i.e., that Europe is formed by contributions from Asia and Africa, fits the distance matrix perfectly (6). In this simplified model, the migrations postulated to have populated Europe are estimated to have occurred at an early date (30,000 years ago), but it is impossible to distinguish, on the basis of these data, this model from that of several migrations at different times.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_Europe
"Maps" don't tell the whole story. There is evidence of Phoenicians on the coasts of Etruria as well:
this is ridiculous I think: Europe is made of "Africans" for the most, but specific Africans passed throught N-E Africa and having given birth ot future Asians and Europeans (very roughly said)
Well, if you want to be more specific, how about J2a-M67 ? It's also found in Italy, Greece, etc.
Why does it seem like you are in denial of Spain's alleged Near Eastern/Levantine admixture? Not all peoples are mixed; obviously. I do not mean to say all Andalusians have this admixture; just the percentage of this admixture is extremely common in the South especially among Andalusians. And in another thread that Sile posted; one Catalonian man had haplogroup Y-DNA R2. How did it get there? The only explanation is that it was brought there by non-Europeans. Because R2 is not European in origin; and is most common around the Indian Subcontinent as well as the Middle East.Well, if you want to be more specific, how about J2a-M67 ? It's also found in Italy, Greece, etc.
But you are Y-DNA R1b and mtdna H1; so the chances of you as a Catalan having non-European admixture would be very low. (In contrast to someone who lives in the region of Andalusia)
This is not what I'm talking about; you misunderstand once again. I know that there are subclades of J2 that are European. And I know that R1b did not originate in Europe; but it is a European haplogroup, at least now.Relax :grin: R1b probable origins are West asian, so would that make anyone R1b less European. And why would you consdier anyone J2 non european? Should everyone have brown or blond hair to be European? :grin:
Why does it seem like you are in denial of Spain's alleged Near Eastern/Levantine admixture? Not all peoples are mixed; obviously. I do not mean to say all Andalusians have this admixture; just the percentage of this admixture is extremely common in the South especially among Andalusians. And in another thread that Sile posted; one Catalonian man had haplogroup Y-DNA R2. How did it get there? The only explanation is that it was brought there by non-Europeans. Because R2 is not European in origin; and is most common around the Indian Subcontinent as well as the Middle East.
There are also small samples of Y-DNA H in Andalusians which suggests that some men in Andalusia may have had a male Roma ancestor.
I would say; in all likelihood, since you're Catalan and from the North of Iberia...The chances of you having a Phoenician/Moorish/Jewish/Roma/whatever ancestor; would be very low. You seem to be very insecure of Spaniards having non-European mixture though, for some odd reason. But you are Y-DNA R1b and mtdna H1; so the chances of you as a Catalan having non-European admixture would be very low. (In contrast to someone who lives in the region of Andalusia)
I am not saying that it is true that they are mixed with Arabic people; but it is still a mystery to me how haplogroups such as J1, J2, Q1b and even R2 or H arrived on the Iberian peninsula. They obviously did not come from Celts or Romans. So who brought them there? Even if there is some mixture; it does not mean all Andalusians share this admixture, and many of them may be as non-mixed as Northern Iberians.
But, I have observed Andalusians and Portuguese people and I can say they do not resemble the Basque people (or other Northern Iberians) at all. And many of them do appear to have non-European features. Their hair color and skin color is often darker than other Europeans; and they look like they picked up Near Eastern genetics. A lot of Andalusians I've noticed; look like Europeans mixed with Lebanese or Syrians. (not in a literal sense; just an analogy.) Most of them have dark black hair, the majority of it is straight while there are a few with curly hair. Sometimes there is Blondism but it is rare.
Afro-Asiatic speaking Levant peoples are not Western-world people; and therefore are not Europeans. They lack genetics that Europeans have.
It is the equivalent to saying a Tunisian or Algerian is a European; despite his darker skin and black hair. He is obviously of a different race. Just because people from the Levant have fair-skin does not make them of the same race as Europeans.
People don't get it and never will.
Since when are Arabs considered European? That's a new revelation to me...They are a subrace of Caucasians that developed independently; while Europeans developed in a different way.
Why does it seem like you are in denial of Spain's alleged Near Eastern/Levantine admixture? Not all peoples are mixed; obviously. I do not mean to say all Andalusians have this admixture; just the percentage of this admixture is extremely common in the South especially among Andalusians. And in another thread that Sile posted; one Catalonian man had haplogroup Y-DNA R2. How did it get there? The only explanation is that it was brought there by non-Europeans. Because R2 is not European in origin; and is most common around the Indian Subcontinent as well as the Middle East.
There are also small samples of Y-DNA H in Andalusians which suggests that some men in Andalusia may have had a male Roma ancestor.
I would say; in all likelihood, since you're Catalan and from the North of Iberia...The chances of you having a Phoenician/Moorish/Jewish/Roma/whatever ancestor; would be very low. You seem to be very insecure of Spaniards having non-European mixture though, for some odd reason. But you are Y-DNA R1b and mtdna H1; so the chances of you as a Catalan having non-European admixture would be very low. (In contrast to someone who lives in the region of Andalusia)
I am not saying that it is true that they are mixed with Arabic people; but it is still a mystery to me how haplogroups such as J1, J2, Q1b and even R2 or H arrived on the Iberian peninsula. They obviously did not come from Celts or Romans. So who brought them there? Even if there is some mixture; it does not mean all Andalusians share this admixture, and many of them may be as non-mixed as Northern Iberians.
But, I have observed Andalusians and Portuguese people and I can say they do not resemble the Basque people (or other Northern Iberians) at all. And many of them do appear to have non-European features. Their hair color and skin color is often darker than other Europeans; and they look like they picked up Near Eastern genetics. A lot of Andalusians I've noticed; look like Europeans mixed with Lebanese or Syrians. (not in a literal sense; just an analogy.) Most of them have dark black hair, the majority of it is straight while there are a few with curly hair. Sometimes there is Blondism but it is rare.
This is not what I'm talking about; you misunderstand once again. I know that there are subclades of J2 that are European. And I know that R1b did not originate in Europe; but it is a European haplogroup, at least now.
The frequency of J1 and J2 arise from the South; suggesting they may have come from Northern Africa. It would not surprise me if the subclades had a Near Eastern origin. In South Portugal J1 is extremely dominant and seems to diminish in frequency in Northern Iberia; which may suggest an Arabic entry from the South. It could not have come from Greeks or Romans.
There are Caucasians and Europeans who have J1 subclades; but they mostly descend from Caucasians who assimilated into Europe. Which may explain the high frequency of J1 in Hungary; brought by the Caucasian Avars. Around what is now Hungary you will notice on this map that Caucasian Avars from the Caucasus migrated into modern day Hungary.
The Avars are extremely dominant in Y-DNA J1.
And it explains why there is a high abundance of J1 in Hungary today:
View attachment 7096
Most non-Caucasians that carry subclades J1 have a Near Eastern/Arabic origin; though. You will also notice a high abundance of J1 in North Africa; as well as Southern Iberia, most notably Portugal. Which suggests that there may have been North Africans that blended into the population. However, it seems almost totally absent in Catalonia and near the Basque country; interestingly.
Once again, the "Near Eastern" features that you think southern Spaniards have are in fact more common in many other areas of Europe, specially where strong Dinarization has occurred:
http://www.geocities.ws/racial_reality/subraces.html
Anthropologists have in fact used the predominance of straight facial profiles and brunette hair among Iberians (as opposed to aquiline profiles and black hair, more common in North Africa and the Middle East) as two of the most distinguishing factors between Iberians and non-European "Mediterranean" populations. Unlike the more Dinaricized and more contemporary "Mediterraneans" from the Near East, Iberians have remained more like the original prehistoric Mediterraneans due to much less Dinaric influence.
This is not what I'm talking about; you misunderstand once again. I know that there are subclades of J2 that are European. And I know that R1b did not originate in Europe; but it is a European haplogroup, at least now.
The frequency of J1 and J2 arise from the South; suggesting they may have come from Northern Africa. It would not surprise me if the subclades had a Near Eastern origin. In South Portugal J1 is extremely dominant and seems to diminish in frequency in Northern Iberia; which may suggest an Arabic entry from the South. It could not have come from Greeks or Romans.
There are Caucasians and Europeans who have J1 subclades; but they mostly descend from Caucasians who assimilated into Europe. Which may explain the high frequency of J1 in Hungary; brought by the Caucasian Avars. Around what is now Hungary you will notice on this map that Caucasian Avars from the Caucasus migrated into modern day Hungary.
The Avars are extremely dominant in Y-DNA J1.
And it explains why there is a high abundance of J1 in Hungary today:
View attachment 7096
Most non-Caucasians that carry subclades J1 have a Near Eastern/Arabic origin; though. You will also notice a high abundance of J1 in North Africa; as well as Southern Iberia, most notably Portugal. Which suggests that there may have been North Africans that blended into the population. However, it seems almost totally absent in Catalonia and near the Basque country; interestingly.
This thread has been viewed 96667 times.