We had a discussion about location of White Croatia here:
Are you actually aware about how Goths migrated? They migrated from what is today northern Poland (Gothic homeland pretty much) to Black Sea coast of Ukraine. After that when Huns pushed them they moved to areas south of river Danube in 370's- read part from book of Jordanes about it and you will find that they settled mostly in what is today Bosnia and surrounding states. And doesn't spread of I2a Din represent it? Nordtvedt located start of I2a Din and its splitting from I2a "Isles" and "Disles" in northern Poland 2500 years ago- and we all know this is long, long time before Slavs settled in, and that only known people which lived there were Goths. Now many say oldest homeland of Goths is Scandinavia and we don't know if we should trust Jordanes fully. But since proto-homeland of all Germanic peoples is Scandinavia they probably came to Poland from there, but much earlier than thought before, most suspect like in 750BC. Tacitus records only Poland as their homeland. Nordtvedt also said that "current spread of I2a Din is result of sudden expansion that happened possibly around 2000 years ago". So it started in Poland- where we today can see like 10 percent of I2a Din, they to Black Sea, where concentration increases, and finally they come to Dinaric alps where biggest concentration is.
I don't know for northern parts of Yugoslavia, but in southern Bosnia, Herzegovina and Montenegro most of people that are I1 are I1 p109 with STR481=0. It is also called "Drobnjak clan cluster" because it was first found among 7 men from that clan. Other I1 can also be results from any other Germanic tribes, or from large number of German miners that settled here in medieval times, not just from Goths, which I already explained. Anyways our medieval sources mostly tell us of Gothic origin of people of this area.
Yes, many words are only present in Croatian (by that I mean also in Bosnia, Montenegro and most of Serbia). Many actually look like Slavic but they are not- for example our word "vrijedan": in Russian -vredniy means harmful, while in our language vrijedan means worthy, which is same as Gothic wairthan. MOST of the words mentioned above are not common Slavic and are present ONLY in our language. I should add that some other words which are now "common Slavic" are actually spread to Slavic languages because of Old Church Slavonic and spread of Christianity, because it spread from south Slavic (linguistically speaking) lands to other Slavic ones.
Well it has to do because that is what our official history tells us: that we are descended from Elbe Slavs and it's clearly wrong. R1a is only present in our northern areas, northern Croatia (Slavonija), northern Bosnia (Posavina) and northern Serbia (Vojvodina), again I say, because Slavs only settled in regions that are good for agriculture. Serbian medieval state of Raska was Slavic (R1a) too but they quickly migrated to north after Ottoman conquest and their lands were settled by I2a Din carriers. As I said if I2a Din originated in Poland 2500 years ago it is impossible that it is Slavic. Pattern of its distribution fits Gothic migrations perfectly.
How do you explain same slavic vocabulary in Polish, though we never have learned Old Church Slavonic, and took christianity from Holy Roman Empire instead?
Can you please explain to me how are Goths and R1b-U106 connected? It's maximum concentrations are far from lands Goths inhabited.
I wasn't talking about diversity pattern, what I meant was concentration. You can perfectly see how concentration steadily increases when we follow their migrations from oldest to most recent homeland, and it is pretty logical IMO.
Yeah, my mistake. But again it is not really relevant to our discussion. What I wanted to point out is that I2a Din TMRCA lived in Gothic homeland 2500 years ago...
I must have mixed I2a Din with general I2a (which is Basque I think). But then again I1 has like 1 percent in whole Spain and it is actually more common on south then on north where Visigoth core was, actually it is practically absent. I2a Din may be absent but there are some individuals from New Mexico of Spanish ancestry with I2a Din, what is also interesting is that all of them are North and none South.
Well yes, but I didn't say it was Germanic in time of its formation, I actually meant it is Germanic now and many close clades to I2a Din are Germanic now. And BTW Celtic (especially if it stand for Celts BC) is more cultural than ethnic mark.
I took this data from Serb DNA project (which includes results from whole Yugoslavia): I1 p109 STR481=0: 17 surnames, I1 Z58: 4 surnames, I1 Z63: 9 surnames (8 of them from single Macura clan).
I think concentrations are more important than you think, and concentrations can not fluctuate independently on every location. Why? Because it is not the way Germanic peoples migrated. Germanic tribes migrated en-masse, taking all of tribe members with them, so what we got after they left were only small leftovers. "Expanding" was certainly not what they did. On other hand Slavic tribes did that, they migrated by conquering piece by piece of new lands, while they never abandoned their old homeland. Not until the 6/7th century did they start with massive migrations too. I believe we were taught that in elementary school as main difference between their migrations.
IIRC it was Nordtvedt himself who located I2a Din TMRCA in middle course of Vistula (which corresponds to Gothic homeland). BTW as I said majority of people living today in parts of southern Poland can have their origins in western Ukraine so that may answer your question?
Hmm well I don't have permission to post links so I will give you directions. Google "srpski dnk projekat" and click on first result, then click on tab "СВИ ДНК РЕЗУЛТАТИ ПО ПРЕЗИМЕНИМА" and you will see table with haplogroups by surnames. Notice that there are 14 I1 results that do not have specific subgroup.
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