McCain-Obama meeting on Syria

sparkey said:

Hopefully never, because worldwide national relationships are far more complicated than that. Putting "Muslim world" under "bad guys" is particularly baffling if you're supporting a strike on Syria, considering that you'll be hopping in with some interesting bedfellows if you do so:

New "good" guys: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Ahrar ash-Sham, Hamas, Chechen rebels like those who inspired the Tsarnaevs, and even Al-Qaeda

The Syrian Civil War has much more to do with Shia vs. Sunni than it does dictatorship vs. democracy. Letting the rebels win may bring somebody worse than Assad to power. And that's not to mention the vengeance that would ensue! I would hate to be an Alawite if Assad loses the war. Even the Melkites could be wiped out. This is way more serious than playing good guys/bad guys.

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I agree that worldwide relations are more complicated but what i said is pretty much true. I guess we need to keep good relations but our governments cant lie and act like we think china is our friend and wants the best for the western world or that their government treats their people right. Right now the whole Muslim world seems to be ruled by extreme muslims or corrupt people like assad and saddam. Plus so many hate the western world.

nordicquarreler said:

I don't see how Assad would have ever used gas knowing that we would be forced to act. Does not compute. Rand Paul is the only sane leader we have in the U.S. This entire episode doesn't smell right to me. What if the global economy is much, much worse than the pundits are allowed to admit publicly... and this generated war is a way for the elites to relieve pressure from a restless and angry populace?

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Doesn't matter if he used gas why are people so stuck on that. Over 100,000 people have died because of this war it is about time the UNITED nations not just america go down there and end the war and stop any other corrpupt government from taking control of syria. So this does not happen again. I think it is so dumb how people are stuck on chemical weapons sure it is a horrible death but so is getting shot or bombed which has happened to 10,000s of people.

Nobody1 said:

The way i see it, is that there is no "Good and Bad" in Syria; There is only Bad and Worse;
So what ever the Military strike will achieve and to whom ever it will be helpful - it will not make anything better for the Syrians; Lebanon will prob. be part of the Syrian civil war in a few months as well;

The only Good thing the UN, EU and US can do at this moment is help the millions of refugees that want to flee Syria and the millions that are currently on the run;

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I dis agree america took down Saddem in 2 weeks. If the rest of the united nations helps america there wont be a country spending unbelievable amounts of money which is what america is going to have to do if we fight alone. We need to end the war and stop anyother corrupt leader from taking control of syria.

Mmuller said:

LeBrok...Have you got evidence related to Assad gassing? I think, you haven't. We watched only fabricated footage on youtube. It is unthinkable to persuade society that Assad used chemical weapon against own people.

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WHO CARES!!!! over 100,000 people have died doesn't matter if he used gas or not.

Fire Haired said:

Right now the whole Muslim world seems to be ruled by extreme muslims or corrupt people like assad and saddam. Plus so many hate the western world.

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:useless: Especially when we know that Assad's legit government is actually under the attack of muslim fundamentalist rebels. Would you just care to read the first paragraph, and than stop talking nonsense, on this thread. You're so uninformed that it hurts my ears....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/01/rand-paul-syria_n_3852644.html

Ike said:

:useless: Especially when we know that Assad's legit government is actually under the attack of muslim fundamentalist rebels. Would you just care to read the first paragraph, and than stop talking nonsense, on this thread. You're so uninformed that it hurts my ears....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/01/rand-paul-syria_n_3852644.html

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What i am saying is true are u really going to argue muslims are not causing a bunch of nonsense wars and killing innocent people dont u remeber 9/11. I know assad is under attck by extreme muslims that is why i have been saying the UN should control their government. We cant let more corrupt things that cause 10,000's of deaths to happen agian. We cant even really trust the citzens because they are brain washed and more are extremist than u would think.

So what if assad is defending Christians probably what that means is he doesn't want to kill them all like most mid eastern leaders. Kind of like how northerners in the american civil war did not exactly want equal rights for black people they just didnt like slavery. U cant get away from the evil and corruption in the mid east.

I am not saying all muslims are evil but what i am saying is the muslim world is maybe the biggest threat right now because it is controlled by corrupt and evil people. and why isn't Obama and the UNITED nations invading iran yet why wait right before they are about to get nuclear weapons. Were they ever taught to not wait till the last minute they have already made that mistake with syria.

Fire Haired said:

What i am saying is true are u really going to argue muslims are not causing a bunch of nonsense wars and killing innocent people dont u remeber 9/11.

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OK, some of them are fundamentalists.

I know assad is under attck by extreme muslims that is why i have been saying the UN should control their government.

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So, when US was under the attack of extreme muslims(9/11), UN should have taken control over their government?

We cant let more corrupt things that cause 10,000's of deaths to happen agian. We cant even really trust the citzens because they are brain washed and more are extremist than u would think.

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You realise that the rebel army forces have nothing to do with actual Syrian rebels, and that they are organized from abroad, and that they are coming from all over the world to make havoc and raise chaos in Syria?

So what if assad is defending Christians probably what that means is he doesn't want to kill them all like most mid eastern leaders.

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He is not defending them, but he defended them for decades. Before him they were really jeopardized, where was UN and US then? He managed to get all Syrian people to live together, without killing each other. Some undemocratic measures had to be taken in order for violence to stop. And it worked so far, until democrats stated calling for freedom - and we saw what happened. Everyone in the world (including some Syrians) suddenly feel free it's OK to go to Syria and kill their citizens. That's a kind of freedom that is good for Syria? Maybe we should kill all the Syrians (both muslim and christians), cause that would solve the problem?

I am not saying all muslims are evil but what i am saying is the muslim world is maybe the biggest threat right now because it is controlled by corrupt and evil people.

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Agree. UN should make a belt around Syria, and make evil mercenaries stop coming in.

and why isn't Obama and the UNITED nations invading iran yet why wait right before they are about to get nuclear weapons. Were they ever taught to not wait till the last minute they have already made that mistake with syria.

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I agree, UN should have invaded US in 1943. before they made their first atomic bomb. Also should have invaded SSSR for the same reasons, and then UK, France and all others...World would be much better place without nuclear weapons.

But it didn't happen :/ I think there are 15 countries now in possession of Nukes, and more of them are to come. There is nothing UN can do now. It was a good method in the olden days, but they can't control it anymore. In like 50-100 years, half of the world will have them.

Something should be done for sure.

sparkey said:

Hopefully never, because worldwide national relationships are far more complicated than that. Putting "Muslim world" under "bad guys" is particularly baffling if you're supporting a strike on Syria, considering that you'll be hopping in with some interesting bedfellows if you do so:

New "good" guys: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Ahrar ash-Sham, Hamas, Chechen rebels like those who inspired the Tsarnaevs, and even Al-Qaeda

The Syrian Civil War has much more to do with Shia vs. Sunni than it does dictatorship vs. democracy. Letting the rebels win may bring somebody worse than Assad to power. And that's not to mention the vengeance that would ensue! I would hate to be an Alawite if Assad loses the war. Even the Melkites could be wiped out. This is way more serious than playing good guys/bad guys.

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Yes, the problem is complex. There are no easy answers. I wonder whether it is better for complex problems to be solved fast methods or otherwise. Fast methods lead to a quick solutions but time may show that quick fixes can be most wrong. On the other hand, if the problem does not solve it escalates. I think that the way to solve complex problems must be improved.

Ike said:

OK, some of them are fundamentalists.

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Tue but it is a major problem that is what u need to realize one of the biggest in the world. And causing 1,00's and 1,00's of deaths every year and our national security is always on alert spending money because of them.

Ike said:

So, when US was under the attack of extreme muslims(9/11), UN should have taken control over their government?

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US Syria two very diff countries. No way the needed to some how retaliate.

Ike said:

You realise that the rebel army forces have nothing to do with actual Syrian rebels, and that they are organized from abroad, and that they are coming from all over the world to make havoc and raise chaos in Syria?

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I dont care my point was that no matter what we cant trust the mid east. When we take down one evil person another one comes up they wont stop killing each other. So i think we need to just say we cant trust u with ur own government. I know this sounds crazy but i think the US should make mid eastern colnies to stop the killings and threat to the rest of the world that is the only solution. Think about it we go over there take down another evil government another more evil one will always pop up. We take down some terriost 10,000,000 more a born the next year fighting a war against terrorist is kind of stupid it is not a real war their like insects. There is no hope changed the minds of people in the mid east so what other solution is there.

Ike said:

He is not defending them, but he defended them for decades. Before him they were really jeopardized, where was UN and US then? He managed to get all Syrian people to live together, without killing each other. Some undemocratic measures had to be taken in order for violence to stop. And it worked so far, until democrats stated calling for freedom - and we saw what happened. Everyone in the world (including some Syrians) suddenly feel free it's OK to go to Syria and kill their citizens. That's a kind of freedom that is good for Syria? Maybe we should kill all the Syrians (both muslim and christians), cause that would solve the problem?

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Why is this even a issue if he defended Christians that is a good thing Muslims have been slaughtering Christians since the begging of their religion.

Ike said:

I agree, UN should have invaded US in 1943. before they made their first atomic bomb. Also should have invaded SSSR for the same reasons, and then UK, France and all others...World would be much better place without nuclear weapons.

But it didn't happen :/ I think there are 15 countries now in possession of Nukes, and more of them are to come. There is nothing UN can do now. It was a good method in the olden days, but they can't control it anymore. In like 50-100 years, half of the world will have them.

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Now ur sounding like a total idiot. It is a competently diff situation with those countries except USSR. We gave consonant warnings to japense cities people to leave before we nuked them we needed to do it to end the war. We dont want to conquer countries for no reason look at our foreign policy all we want to do is help even with Muslims who want to kill us all. America and Iran two very very very very very diff countries.A country like iran which says they want to kill all jews and supporst assad compared to a country like america which wants to help people.

Fire Haired said:

Tue but it is a major problem that is what u need to realize one of the biggest in the world. And causing 1,00's and 1,00's of deaths every year and our national security is always on alert spending money because of them.

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Agree. Something should be done about them, but I don't think that wars or retaliations against some poor civilians are answers. In the end, someone is selling them all that guns, ammo and equipment. Although, when I think better, where did these guys got money for these weapons? By selling those souvenirs?!

US Syria two very diff countries. No way the needed to some how retaliate.

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You should not treat another country unequal just because it's not your country.

I dont care my point was that no matter what we cant trust the mid east. When we take down one evil person another one comes up they wont stop killing each other. So i think we need to just say we cant trust u with ur own government. I know this sounds crazy but i think the US should make mid eastern colnies to stop the killings and threat to the rest of the world that is the only solution. Think about it we go over there take down another evil government another more evil one will always pop up. We take down some terriost 10,000,000 more a born the next year fighting a war against terrorist is kind of stupid it is not a real war their like insects. There is no hope changed the minds of people in the mid east so what other solution is there.

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I don't think they are all to blame. Those are usually fundamentalists and religious freaks that are like 1% of population. OK, one percent out of 100 million is 1.000.000 terrorists, but they are also terrorizing their own people. What bothers me the most is that US is somehow always on the side of terrorists, with the excuse that the current govenment is not democratic enough. US always end up on the side where weapons trade, drugs, corruption and human trafficking is a major issue.

Why is this even a issue if he defended Christians that is a good thing Muslims have been slaughtering Christians since the begging of their religion.

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It is an issue because US now supports the other side. Like WTF?

Now ur sounding like a total idiot. It is a competently diff situation with those countries except USSR. We gave consonant warnings to japense cities people to leave before we nuked them we needed to do it to end the war. We dont want to conquer countries for no reason look at our foreign policy all we want to do is help even with Muslims who want to kill us all. America and Iran two very very very very very diff countries.A country like iran which says they want to kill all jews and supporst assad compared to a country like america which wants to help people.

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From my point of view you are all terrorists. You're all using oppressive methods to enforce your way of life, out of your district.

Ike said:

You should not treat another country unequal just because it's not your country.

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When my country was literally built on justice and wants to help people not blow them up i can.

Ike said:

I don't think they are all to blame. Those are usually fundamentalists and religious freaks that are like 1% of population. OK, one percent out of 100 million is 1.000.000 terrorists, but they are also terrorizing their own people. What bothers me the most is that US is somehow always on the side of terrorists, with the excuse that the current govenment is not democratic enough. US always end up on the side where weapons trade, drugs, corruption and human trafficking is a major issue.

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It is western people built on hate agianst whites and tradtional westerners. Because of so many bad things we have done recently and how powerful we have been. since the 1960's people have started not to just say some things westerns have done is bad but they have a hate for westerners. So it is always the brown man who is the victim to them. So they cant stand saying that MUslims are very corrupt and conquered people in a worse way than the western world did. So they try tp defend them and say we stero type. We have pretty good reasons. To i live in every muslim area there is actulley one of the biggest muslim communites in america is my neighborhood. And my family has talked with a guy from Iraq we worked for Sadem hussian and his job was like their version of CIA. He left to america with his family because of constant death threats from other muslims partly because of how secular they were and people know who he was. He said in the Mosques of america all they preach is JIhad and anti america that is why he does not go. and he showed us the type of clothing extreme muslim men wear and they actulley plan own over throwing america within. This is not a nagry white person from Kentucky this is a muslim from iraq saying these things. I know most are normal people but extremist have the power and are one of our biggest threats we need to stop caring about feelings and liberal agenda and anti white spirit.

Ike said:

It is an issue because US now supports the other side. Like WTF?

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I don't know how true that is. So many of our founding fathers were strong Christians. People don't like to admit it but america in many ways was created by WASPS very evangelical Christians. Even though in modern media and modern establishment in the western world is kind of anti Christian. They still want human rights and wont side with Muslims killing Christians.

Ike said:

From my point of view you are all terrorists. You're all using oppressive methods to enforce your way of life, out of your district.

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We are all terriotsit? look at what america wants to do for the world all we want to do is help. We dont say death to all Jews or all Muslims. Our government was made not to make mistakes corrupt governments like in the mid east do. U must be out of ur mind to think it is the same sutuation with America Uk and other countires with nukes except communist ones.

Fire Haired said:

When my country was literally built on justice and wants to help people not blow them up i can.

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Was also built on the work of black people.

It is western people built on hate agianst whites and tradtional westerners. Because of so many bad things we have done recently and how powerful we have been. since the 1960's people have started not to just say some things westerns have done is bad but they have a hate for westerners. So it is always the brown man who is the victim to them. So they cant stand saying that MUslims are very corrupt and conquered people in a worse way than the western world did. So they try tp defend them and say we stero type. We have pretty good reasons. To i live in every muslim area there is actulley one of the biggest muslim communites in america is my neighborhood. And my family has talked with a guy from Iraq we worked for Sadem hussian and his job was like their version of CIA. He left to america with his family because of constant death threats from other muslims partly because of how secular they were and people know who he was. He said in the Mosques of america all they preach is JIhad and anti america that is why he does not go. and he showed us the type of clothing extreme muslim men wear and they actulley plan own over throwing america within. This is not a nagry white person from Kentucky this is a muslim from iraq saying these things. I know most are normal people but extremist have the power and are one of our biggest threats we need to stop caring about feelings and liberal agenda and anti white spirit.

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I agree. You should deal with those kind of people. Can't let terrorists destroy your society. Muslim religion may be at medieval stage right now (like Christians in the time of Crusades) and we can't wait for centuries for them to outgrow their adolescent issues.

We are all terriotsit? look at what america wants to do for the world all we want to do is help. We dont say death to all Jews or all Muslims. Our government was made not to make mistakes corrupt governments like in the mid east do. U must be out of ur mind to think it is the same sutuation with America Uk and other countires with nukes except communist ones.

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OK. Get a world map, and color in red all the countries that US waged war and you'll get a clearer picture. I really think that, and I'm not out of my mind.
I'm also getting infractions for what I'm saying, and I can't help it if it hurts someone to hear the truth.

Ike said:

Was also built on the work of black people.

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That is extremely unaccurte historically. Yes for a long time america i guess later only the south had slaves but they are not what built the country they were apart of it. I understand america has made mistakes. But u can deny what our country was built on which is not to make the same mistakes every tribe and nation has in human history. Modern free democracy was really spread by America we were the first to make a modern democracy. I know u have alot of bias against america but u need to open ur eyes at what good things we have done.

Ike said:

I agree. You should deal with those kind of people. Can't let terrorists destroy your society. Muslim religion may be at medieval stage right now (like Christians in the time of Crusades) and we can't wait for centuries for them to outgrow their adolescent issues.

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For one thing humans are humans we are not any diff than we were in the mid ages. Also Christianity never changes it did not develop into something new after the mid ages, Sure we had corrupt evil leaders in Europe since really the Roman empire who say they are real Christians but that does not represent the Christianity. U have made it clear u have a anto Christian anti America spirit which is total 1960';s modern liberalism. Which was in reaction to bad parts of traditional western society but went way to far.

Ike said:

OK. Get a world map, and color in red all the countries that US waged war and you'll get a clearer picture. I really think that, and I'm not out of my mind.
I'm also getting infractions for what I'm saying, and I can't help it if it hurts someone to hear the truth.

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Please Stop trying to pose america as this big bad guy. We help other nations we fought in Vietnam for freedom of south veitmanese and a evil communist government which was conquering them yet i hear so many people including my teachers act as if america was the villain. U are wrong if u think america is a evil country. The only un justice wars i can think of are ones with native Americans which i dont know that much about.

Fire Haired said:

That is extremely unaccurte historically. Yes for a long time america i guess later only the south had slaves but they are not what built the country they were apart of it. I understand america has made mistakes. But u can deny what our country was built on which is not to make the same mistakes every tribe and nation has in human history. Modern free democracy was really spread by America we were the first to make a modern democracy. I know u have alot of bias against america but u need to open ur eyes at what good things we have done.

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It is accurate, and it's funny in the context of your previous statement : "My country was literally built on justice". And why do we talk about democracy anyway? It's just a buzzword, a semantic diversion.

For one thing humans are humans we are not any diff than we were in the mid ages. Also Christianity never changes it did not develop into something new after the mid ages, Sure we had corrupt evil leaders in Europe since really the Roman empire who say they are real Christians but that does not represent the Christianity. U have made it clear u have a anto Christian anti America spirit which is total 1960';s modern liberalism. Which was in reaction to bad parts of traditional western society but went way to far.

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I have a lot more antis in my spirit. Those are just 2 out of 1000. Third is for that modern liberal thing.

Please Stop trying to pose america as this big bad guy. We help other nations we fought in Vietnam for freedom of south veitmanese and a evil communist government which was conquering them yet i hear so many people including my teachers act as if america was the villain. U are wrong if u think america is a evil country. The only un justice wars i can think of are ones with native Americans which i dont know that much about.

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I am not trying to pose America as anything. US is doing it themselves. US fought in Vietnam for freedom? :startled: OMG. Just like in Libya and is planning in Syria?

'Evil communists' is another verbal diversion. It has no real meaning, nor does it correlate. There is evil, there are communists, there are democrats and there are others. Everyone can be evil. 'Evil communist' of 20th century is the same paradigm as 'flying female witch' from the 15th.

A few air strikes to take out the Jets and other planes of Assad + chemical depots this would be helpful but then they also need to target a few of the extremist rebels.

Sile said:

The U.S will be roped in again, when will they learn. sides who do you support, assad or a sect that treats half its citizens as less than the value of a goat

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The extremist rebels are indeed no option but Assad is not much different.

Even if people did not agree the only real solution for Syria is dividing it into several states for Druze, Kurds, Allawites and Sunni Arabs. Christians are scattered through the whole country but there seems to be a dominance in Eastern Syria like Deir ez Zor.

Not much different ? I didn't see people tortured or dying in Syria before the terrorists started their "democratic revolution".

McCain is hoping that Russia, China and Iran are bluffing. He plays poker with WW3 in stake. We should trust his judgment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo9Nmeyz5lo

Ike said:

It is accurate, and it's funny in the context of your previous statement : "My country was literally built on justice". And why do we talk about democracy anyway? It's just a buzzword, a semantic diversion.

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JUst stop. compare modern america to anceint rome and modern muslim countries u can see the differnce. america is the reason that type of government is wide spread and why we dont see napoleans and hitlers in europe anymore.

Ike said:

I am not trying to pose America as anything. US is doing it themselves. US fought in Vietnam for freedom? :startled: OMG. Just like in Libya and is planning in Syria?

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We fought for freedom of south veitmanese from a corrupt soviet supported communist government to kill and conquer them.

Ike said:

'Evil communists' is another verbal diversion. It has no real meaning, nor does it correlate. There is evil, there are communists, there are democrats and there are others. Everyone can be evil. 'Evil communist' of 20th century is the same paradigm as 'flying female witch' from the 15th.

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Communist sure is a form of government which has resulted in evill countries. Look ate north korea, china(breaking into Us military systems), soviet union, Russia(giving syrian government weapons trying to help Iran get nukes), cuba. U know what i mean.

Ike said:

Not much different ? I didn't see people tortured or dying in Syria before the terrorists started their "democratic revolution".

McCain is hoping that Russia, China and Iran are bluffing. He plays poker with WW3 in stake. We should trust his judgment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo9Nmeyz5lo

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It is because you weren't interested in seeing them than because as far as my knowledge goes the first ever torture was started by Assad forces towards Sunnis who supported the Rebels and I saw a few videos of it back than. The first extreme brutal torture video I saw from Syria was Assad Soldiers slowly stabbing Rebel supporters to death with knifes. Now it has reached a point where both sides are killing each other with no mercy. And with Al Qaida linked extremists from other countries arriving in Syria the Rebels became even more brutal.

look out for it on Youtube there are quite allot.

I already said but will repeat Rebels are no option but a Syria under Assad rule again is no choice either because for hell you can be sure. If the Rebels win they will massacre the Allawites and if Assad wins he will do the same in revenge.

It might be because I am a Kurd myself but the only side which I see has still kept their human morals and shows slightest democratic signal is the Kurdish side.


Syria is full of small prison cells where people were tortured for decades.