Phenotypes of the Greeks

Well you haven't been to Greece then...
No i've not only been to Greece but also Cyprus I could tell you the physical difference between them although there isn't much...I could certainly tell you the physical difference between Greeks and Turks and the reasons why.

Greeks don't have Turkish genes you're going to have to try much harder than that.
 
No i've not only been to Greece but also Cyprus I could tell you the physical difference between them although there isn't much...I could certainly tell you the physical difference between Greeks and Turks and the reasons why.

Greeks don't have Turkish genes you're going to have to try much harder than that.

Have you seen an eye doctor?
 
Have you seen an eye doctor?
Have you? What's your problem Greeks don't have Turkish ancestry you might as well say that about the entire part of Europe who didn't survive Neolithic migration from the Near East. Don't you think they have enough problems right now? Do you think they care what morons say about them online?
 
E-V13 was formed in the Balkans before thousands of years and in the meantime it mixxed with local women (mtdna H, U, T, K, X, I) and Caucasoid Y-DNA ( I, J2, G2 and R1) so it looks totally Caucasian nowadays... I have never seen an Egyptian or Moroccan looking Greek so far, perhaps they are hiding.

Some Levantines(Lebanese,Syrians,and few Palestinians) may look Greek at times

A few Berbers from North Africa may also resemble Greeks, Berbers look different from
Mainstream North Africans and Arabs
 
I think greeks have a lot of alpine and dinaric types

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk
 
Cretans might look Anatolian/Levantine but not Arabic (Cretans are actually one of the people of Greece with higher light eyes percentage). This is a small fraction of what I call anti-Greek propaganda.
Round faces with short noses? Hmmmm, could it be Alpine R1b? No it must be E1b1b according to Maciamo... But from what I know regions with a lot of E1b1b are not particularly darker skinned than the rest of Greece (for example Cyprus with 20% E1b1b is darker than Peloponnese with 35% E1b1b / and Epirus with 30% E1b1b is lighter then the Aegean with 20% E1b1b). The only haplogroups that somehow reflect ***mentation are R1a1 and I in Greece.

I've spent a few hours seeing Crete through Google Earth. Obviously visiting the place is much more efficient. Generally speaking, the people on the street seem quite Mediterranean, but it is not possible to see details from the streat view. But who should care what they look like? They have a rich and much more relevant history.
 
I once went to Crete very long time ago, and I thought some people looked middle eastern.
 
I once went to Crete very long time ago, and I thought some people looked middle eastern.

It is possible to find people who look like Middle Eastern people across Europe, but it makes sense that it is more common in Crete since they are the European population closest to the Levantines.
 
It is possible to find people who look like Middle Eastern people across Europe, but it makes sense that it is more common in Crete since they are the European population closest to the Levantines.
According to who? Cretans have more of an affinity to Caucasus populations, due to the relatively higher amount brought by populations like the Minoans, and previous populations. Not to mention high Anatolian_N. Middle Eastern populations have significant amounts of Anatolian_N, and CHG. The main difference is the levant has a lot of Natufian. This component is not significant in Crete, as shown that the Arab invasion left little to no trace according to the study. So if they look similar, it is not due to levantine related populations, but Caucasus and Anatolian_N; which are also present in the rest of Europe btw. Which is also why some Near East populations, look "white". Moreover, the Levant has small but amount of SSA which is not in Crete.
 
According to who? Cretans have more of an affinity to Caucasus populations, due to the relatively higher amount brought by populations like the Minoans, and previous populations. Not to mention high Anatolian_N. Middle Eastern populations have significant amounts of Anatolian_N, and CHG. The main difference is the levant has a lot of Natufian. This component is not significant in Crete, as shown that the Arab invasion left little to no trace according to the study. So if they look similar, it is not due to levantine related populations, but Caucasus and Anatolian_N; which are also present in the rest of Europe btw. Which is also why some Near East populations, look "white". Moreover, the Levant has small but amount of SSA which is not in Crete.

What do you mean 'according to whom'? In absolutely each and every PCA the Cretans are the most southeastern Europeans. It is not even a matter of debate. And it is not just a 'Caucasian element', it is the mixture of Caucasian and natufian elements that characterizes the Near East. On average Cretans are between Europeans and the Near East. This matters? Probably not. They have their own culture and history.

BIMJlpt.png
 
What do you mean 'according to whom'? In absolutely each and every PCA the Cretans are the most southeastern Europeans. It is not even a matter of debate. And it is not just a 'Caucasian element', it is the mixture of Caucasian and natufian elements that characterizes the Near East. On average Cretans are between Europeans and the Near East. This matters? Probably not. They have their own culture and history.
BIMJlpt.png
You should look at a 3D PCA than, 2D does not show you the nuances. Also, they can plot in that position without Natufian. Minoans ploy Near them without Natufian.

PCA does not mean it is definitely the case for populations anyway. This is elementary, do you think south Indians and south Americans are one in the same because they overlap in a 2D PCA?
 
According to who? Cretans have more of an affinity to Caucasus populations, due to the relatively higher amount brought by populations like the Minoans, and previous populations. Not to mention high Anatolian_N. Middle Eastern populations have significant amounts of Anatolian_N, and CHG. The main difference is the levant has a lot of Natufian. This component is not significant in Crete, as shown that the Arab invasion left little to no trace according to the study. So if they look similar, it is not due to levantine related populations, but Caucasus and Anatolian_N; which are also present in the rest of Europe btw. Which is also why some Near East populations, look "white". Moreover, the Levant has small but amount of SSA which is not in Crete.

do you have proof for your statement that some near eastern populations look "white" because of anatolian_N and CHG ancestry?
what if certain traits we nowadays call "near eastern" are based on those ancestries?
 
When someone says you "look White" they mean you have light enough skin among West Eurasians and no features they see are alien to West Europeans (nose, hair texture, eyes).
 
No i've not only been to Greece but also Cyprus I could tell you the physical difference between them although there isn't much...I could certainly tell you the physical difference between Greeks and Turks and the reasons why.

Greeks don't have Turkish genes you're going to have to try much harder than that.

This is a old message but there are Greeks that came over from the Pontos area of Turkey during the great exchange of populations in 1922-23. They spoke the Pontic dialect of Greek and were Christian Orthodox. Genetically they are close to other people of the area. Greek speaking and Orthodox Christians also came over from Eastern and Northern Thrace, coastal Western Turkey and Cappadocia. There was also a group of Turkish speaking Orthodox people from The Karaman era of Turkey, the Karamanlides. So modern Greeks have a mixture of all those phenotypes.
 
do you have proof for your statement that some near eastern populations look "white" because of anatolian_N and CHG ancestry?
what if certain traits we nowadays call "near eastern" are based on those ancestries?
That's actually my point. Because "whites" and Near easterners share those common ancestries. I wonder if some of our disagreements may just come from a simple misunderstanding.

In fact, I believe CHG and Anatolian_N may be what gives people a "Roman" look to them. Which is why you can find people that look like that, even in places without Roman occupation, like Ireland.
 
You have chosen people of very different types.

Over and beyond that, how do you know what the "original" Greeks looked like? In what time period did the "original" Greeks live? Is it the Mycenaean period, the Classical period, or what?

This is what some Mycenaeans looked like from the evidence of a fresco in the tomb of one of them. Their ***mentation snps match this, with the fact that warriors were always portrayed with a tan.Some of your examples don't look anything like that.
mycenaean-griffin-warrior-face-reconstructed_1.jpg



Plus, it may be more logical to guess that the most "original" Greek looking people would be those living in areas with the least "Slavic" admixture, yet you include areas like Thessaly and Macedonia?

The Greeks with the least such admixture in mainland Greece would seem to be the people from the Southern Peloponnese according to genetic analysis.

Start at 15.37




This a Greek actor from a German television drama series. I think he resembles a bit the reconstructed Mycenaean warrior in terms of his jaw/ chin area.
thumbnail_150114_523x300.jpg


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